Good. We should be talking to people who don't like us or our allies.

Who said anything about sitting down with them? He's just trying to set them up on a blind date with Israel.

Hey submitter, I'd love to hear how you would propose to broker some kind of peace, temporary or lasting, if you didn't talk to both democratically elected governments involved.

Be careful what you ask for when it comes to democracy. You might get Hamas.

Howie Spankowitz: Be careful what you ask for when it comes to democracy. You might get Hamas.

If they elect Hamas, they should not be surprised when Hamas launches rockets and mortars from school yards. They should be even less surprised when Israel opens a can on those locations.

They are reaping what they sowed, they're not getting any sympathy, or copies of photoshop, from me.

I'd support talking to them only in the context of what we did with North Korea -- not one on one negotiations, but in a six-party team or something.

Bring in Russia, China, Jordan, Egypt, the Saudis, Israel, US, the Palestinians, and the EU. That would be the only way I'd support it.

That being said, negotiations with Hamas won't do dick, and anyone who thinks differently is either ignorant of history or knows nothing about militant Islam.

nacker: Who said anything about sitting down with them? He's just trying to set them up on a blind date with Israel.

aaahhh, so beautiful

Come to Gaza, where every day is the 4th of July!

Howie Spankowitz: Be careful what you ask for when it comes to democracy. You might get Hamas.

Sounds like they bought their tickets and took their chances, then.

Crosshair: Howie Spankowitz: Be careful what you ask for when it comes to democracy. You might get Hamas.

If they elect Hamas, they should not be surprised when Hamas launches rockets and mortars from school yards. They should be even less surprised when Israel opens a can on those locations.

They are reaping what they sowed, they're not getting any sympathy, or copies of photoshop, from me.

nor should Israel be surprised when firing tank shells at journalists results in reciprocation.

point is neither side's hands are clean in this, nor have they ever really been so. but re-occupying Gaza is the kind of shiat that could escalate very quickly and badly, so yes, something needs to be done here before Israel gets itself into some serious shiat.

stickmangrit: Crosshair: Howie Spankowitz: Be careful what you ask for when it comes to democracy. You might get Hamas.

If they elect Hamas, they should not be surprised when Hamas launches rockets and mortars from school yards. They should be even less surprised when Israel opens a can on those locations.

They are reaping what they sowed, they're not getting any sympathy, or copies of photoshop, from me.

nor should Israel be surprised when firing tank shells at journalists results in reciprocation.

point is neither side's hands are clean in this, nor have they ever really been so. but re-occupying Gaza is the kind of shiat that could escalate very quickly and badly, so yes, something needs to be done here before Israel gets itself into some serious shiat.


That, or they just come up with some sort of final solution.

/going to hell? probably

Howie Spankowitz: Hey submitter, I'd love to hear how you would propose to broker some kind of peace, temporary or lasting, if you didn't talk to both democratically elected governments involved.

I think that Subby is unconcerned with a lasting peace. It's more about ZOMG! B. HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A HYPOCRITE!!9/11!

I'd like to know when countries gained some inherent right to exist.

A country can only exist if it's strong and smart enough to maintain itself and its security. There is no right for a country to exist.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's more about ZOMG! B. HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A HYPOCRITE!!9/11!

It's about time to stop this now, Eddie Adams.

gustakooka: Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's more about ZOMG! B. HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A HYPOCRITE!!9/11!

It's about time to stop this now, Eddie Adams.

Eddie's not the one going ZOMG HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!!1! every time Obama utters a syllable. He's just pointing out the fact that subby is (or seems to be) in that group.

submitter: Obama in 2008: "We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past agreements." 2009: Just Kidding

Yeah, that strategy worked out really well for Bush. I was pissed when he said it in 2008, because I knew that Hamas wasn't going to EVER do those things and that this was just going to get worse.

King Something: gustakooka: Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's more about ZOMG! B. HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A HYPOCRITE!!9/11!

It's about time to stop this now, Eddie Adams.

Eddie's not the one going ZOMG HIS MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!!1! every time Obama utters a syllable. He's just pointing out the fact that subby is (or seems to be) in that group.

Hmmmmm. I just re-read the headline, and nope, it says nothing like that. In fact, those like you and Eddie are far, far more common making fun than those that are actually doing it.

So, yeah, it's time to stop now.

PC LOAD LETTER: I was pissed when he said it in 2008, because I knew that Hamas wasn't going to EVER do those things and that this was just going to get worse.

I don't really care what happens to those two groups of yahoos.

They both keep electing the exact same governments over and over again, governments who only know how to lob bombs back and forth.

If they keep electing the same governments, they're obviously happy with the status quo. When they actually get tired of the killing, they'll elect governments who are willing to do things differently.

SchlingFocker: PC LOAD LETTER: I was pissed when he said it in 2008, because I knew that Hamas wasn't going to EVER do those things and that this was just going to get worse.

I don't really care what happens to those two groups of yahoos.

They both keep electing the exact same governments over and over again, governments who only know how to lob bombs back and forth.

If they keep electing the same governments, they're obviously happy with the status quo. When they actually get tired of the killing, they'll elect governments who are willing to do things differently.

Unfortunately, no one can ignore the issue. Too much money to be made there and we can't make it if they are blowing each other up.

PC LOAD LETTER: Unfortunately, no one can ignore the issue. Too much money to be made there and we can't make it if they are blowing each other up.

Last I checked, though, our money wasn't being made in Israel or Palestine. They've been going back and forth with this slap fight for a long time now.

Our country won't substantially benefit by getting involved with those crazy farks.

KaponoFor3: I'd support talking to them only in the context of what we did with North Korea -- not one on one negotiations, but in a six-party team or something.

The US eventually did have bilateral talks with NK - the rest of the six parties were getting fed up with the US for continually refusing and dragging stuff out. The US got its share of that annoyance right along with NK.

I'm happy to hear there will be talks, personally. Talking, or having an ear open, does NOT need to mean giving into any requests or demands, but the idea that you can ever come to a solution with someone without ever facing them at the table (even if only to yell at them when you sit down) is ludicrous. Getting rid of that particular hardheadedness is one of the things I'm happiest about seeing Bush leave.

Even Reagan talked to the Soviets, Nixon went to China, and there were talks during the Cuban missile crisis.

He's about 18 months from going from Barak Obama (D) to Barak Obama (I)

In my boobies (intentional), I wasn't making a statement about who to blame for the current flare up in hostilities because I believe both sides are at fault to some extent.

I was responding to moronmitter's criticism of Obama's alleged plan to engage in dialogue with Hamas. It was the Bush administration that pushed an agenda of democracy at all costs. Of course, it was the Palestinian people who stupidly elected Hamas.

Democracy is a great ideal, but certain conditions need to exist or you get this kind of clusterf*ck. Now that Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian authority, Obama has no choice but to include them in discussions if there is to be any hope of peace.

I agree with KaponoFor3 to some extent, though, and I would seek multi-party talks.

Fortunately, NOTHING has changed since he made that statement, amirite?

NEVER changing your opinions no matter how much circumstances change is a mental disorder, not a desirable quality.

I think Bush's flip from 2001-2002 on Colin Powell's plan of a large arab coalition against Al Qaeda to following the Neocon's plan of war on Iraq, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas is fun.

2001
As President Bush prepares to host Ramadan feasts at the White House this week to bolster Muslim support for the war on terrorism, he is shadowed by criticism of the administration's outreach efforts to American Muslims during the past two months.

Jewish groups and some conservatives have been lobbying the president to stop courting certain Muslim leaders who, they say, have equivocated on terrorism by condemning the Sept. 11 attacks but praising Hamas and Hezbollah. Those two groups, which are fighting Israel, are on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations.

"It's a very simple proposition," said Phil Baum, executive director of the American Jewish Congress. "The White House ...

to

a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America's behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power. (The State Department declined to comment.)

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.

Some sources call the scheme "Iran-contra 2.0," recalling that Abrams was convicted (and later pardoned) for withholding information from Congress...

to

The Gaza War of 2009 is a final and eloquent testimony to the complete failure of the neoconservative movement in United States foreign policy. For over a decade, the leading figures in this school of thought saw the violent overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the institution of a parliamentary regime in Iraq as the magic solution to all the problems in the Middle East.
...cont

SchlingFocker: I'd like to know when countries gained some inherent right to exist.

A country can only exist if it's strong and smart enough to maintain itself and its security. There is no right for a country to exist.

I believe there is a right for a person to exist though. I don't believe Hamas or Israel believes the other sides civilians have a right to exist anymore. Israel does not seem to be taking many precautions to keep the civilians safe.

How many of you guys would be pissed at cops here in America if they shot through a hostage to get at the criminal?

Being president is a lot harder than running for president.

/As Obama will continue to learn in excruciating detail

Antisemitism at it's finest. This is why Israel should be allowed to expand it borders from the Euphrates to the Nile. Some people don't deserve freedom and democracy.

If confirmed (which they are unlikely to be in the near future - if ever), covert talks with Hamas would reverse a long-held Bush administration policy of completely refusing to deal with the group.

Bullshiat. Everyone does backdoor negotiations.

twobux: He's about 18 months from going from Barak Obama (D) to Barak Obama (I)

In 18 months all our military commitments around the world will be complete and all our soldiers home and we'll all have unicorns in our pots.

Wait wait wait, slow down there subby. Are you suggesting that Barack Obama said in the heat of the campaign that he'd defer any attempts to find a real solution in that region until Israel was nice and comfy, but now that he's been elected he's actually going to try WORKABLE solutions?

For the last time you neocons! He's not the Messiah! All these jokes about his actually making intelligent decisions that any rational person would have thought up decades ago are just making you look more foolish. Next you'll be telling us he's actually going to do all that crazy "getting us off of oil" stuff he said during the campaign. What a bunch of nutjobs.

Easterned: Antisemitism at it's finest. This is why Israel should be allowed to expand it borders from the Euphrates to the Nile. Some people don't deserve freedom and democracy.

This. Israel should crush the children of Palestine and drink their blood! It is the only way to achieve peace as told in the scripture.

Exodus 3:13 - Thou shalt drive the enemy before you and hear the lamentations of the women.

Tastes Like Chicken: Good. We should be talking to people who don't like us or our allies.

You've obviously not been paying much attention the last 25 years. But I'm sure they'll come around in year 26....

SchlingFocker: our money wasn't being made in Israel

Americans have tons of investments in Israeli companies. What are you talking about? Warren Buffet bought Iscar Metalworking for $4 billion in 2006, for example.

thenateman: Being president is a lot harder than running for president.

/As Obama will continue to learn in excruciating detail

Newsflash: Being a condescending dick doesn't give your "arguments" any credence. Obama isn't Simple Jack.

When the cops have someone barracaded in their house, get a bullhorn out and ask them to talk, it might be called "negotiation", but it's not like sitting down for a cup of coffee at Starbucks and asking them to keep the noise down.

All things considered, I think people are getting butthurt about the wrong things here.

Ryan2065: SchlingFocker: I'd like to know when countries gained some inherent right to exist.

A country can only exist if it's strong and smart enough to maintain itself and its security. There is no right for a country to exist.

I believe there is a right for a person to exist though. I don't believe Hamas or Israel believes the other sides civilians have a right to exist anymore. Israel does not seem to be taking many precautions to keep the civilians safe.

How many of you guys would be pissed at cops here in America if they shot through a hostage to get at the criminal?

Hamas keeps poking at the rattlesnake. The difference is hamas intentionally target Isralei civilians and schools with their rockets.

It's fine that Obama wants to talk to them, but besides asking for Israel being driven into the sea what exactly will they be talking about?

PC LOAD LETTER: Newsflash: Being a condescending dick doesn't give your "arguments" any credence. Obama isn't Simple Jack.

Does somebody need a hug?

Easterned: Antisemitism at it's finest. This is why Israel should be allowed to expand it borders from the Euphrates to the Nile. Some people don't deserve freedom and democracy.

Good thing you have a Final Solution planned.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Tastes Like Chicken: Good. We should be talking to people who don't like us or our allies.

You've obviously not been paying much attention the last 25 years. But I'm sure they'll come around in year 26....

I agree. I'll never forget when that traitor Reagan talked with our sworn enemies, the Iranians, and it did nothing for us. That was Reagan for you. He was so naive.

thenateman: Being president is a lot harder than running for president.

/As Obama will continue to learn in excruciating detail I did not read the article


I agree.

KaponoFor3: That being said, negotiations with Hamas won't do dick, and anyone who thinks differently is either ignorant of history or knows nothing about militant Islam.

On the other hand, air strikes and invasions are likely to solve the problem completely.

Actual headline of the article: "Obama To Open Back-Channel With Hamas?" And to move from an open ended, unconfirmed question to a declarative statement? Wonderful move submitter.

Someone needs to pay a bit more attention: The Cavuto (new window)

purple helmet

Hamas keeps poking at the rattlesnake.

...that won't let anyone out of the house, or any goods in.

The difference is hamas intentionally target Isralei civilians and schools with their rockets.

And the two schools hit by Israeli forces have been by accident, one supposes?

itazurakko: Even Reagan talked to the Soviets, Nixon went to China, and there were talks during the Cuban missile crisis.

This.

The whole "zomg he wants to talk to the enemy!!1!!" warrrrrggle from the wingnuts is one of the most profoundly stupid concepts in recent memory.

LibertyFirst: It's fine that Obama wants to talk to them, but besides asking for Israel being driven into the sea what exactly will they be talking about?

Those comments are for the stupid Palestinian masses, and apparently you are as bright as them. They have a stake in peace, as much as they have a stake in instability.

/Keep the pot boiling, but don't let it boil over

LibertyFirst: It's fine that Obama wants to talk to them, but besides asking for Israel being driven into the sea what exactly will they be talking about?

If it leads to meaningful dialog and action, It will marginalize the power your argument has over American policy. Which is a good thing.

Howie Spankowitz

Do you consider it strange that the nations that Israel does have peace with over there are dictatorships?

Also, is it really that difficult for Hamas to take a big adult step and say "Okay, we won't kill you." They can't even get that far. I feel that's a legitimate starting point before we talk about lasting peace.

thenateman: PC LOAD LETTER: Newsflash: Being a condescending dick doesn't give your "arguments" any credence. Obama isn't Simple Jack.

Does somebody need a hug?

No, but you need to stop the usual right-wing "Obama's naive" bullshiat. It didn't work for McCain. Take a hint.

purple helmet: Hamas keeps poking at the rattlesnake. The difference is hamas intentionally target Isralei civilians and schools with their rockets.

Agreed. But Israel has been poking the rattlesnake, too. 40 years of illegal settlements are just the start.

Completely sympathise with Israel's need for defense, but a freshman history major could tell you how virtually imprisoning a whole population is going to turn out.