"Under President Lyndon Johnson, the government decided individuals who had stopped looking for work for more than a year were no longer part of the labor force. This dramatically decreased the jobless rate reported by the government."

I'm curious to if there is a higher percentage of individuals who have been unemployed for more than a year now, as compared to the Johnson administration era.

/524,000 jobs lost in December
///the unemployment rate is now 7.2%
///numbers literally just released this morning

LBJ was a DIK.

Every administration since Johnson has tweaked how the number is calculated. No surprise, every tweak has been to make the unemployment number smaller. The shadow stats website I follow doesn't quite put the number as high as the 16%, but it's still higher than the rate the US Gov reports.

"Discouraged workers" and other Farkers who haven't actively sought work for more than a year should be added back into the statistics.

I'm assuming this wouldn't mean reincluding most retirees or those physically or mentally incapable of holding a job.

Rustico: Every administration since Johnson has tweaked how the number is calculated. No surprise, every tweak has been to make the unemployment number smaller. The shadow stats website I follow doesn't quite put the number as high as the 16%, but it's still higher than the rate the US Gov reports.

While I had figured the definition had been changed little by little as the years went by, I was in serious facepalm mode when some Bush defender disagreed with me when I said that being a Walmart greeter is NOT "skilled labor".

notmtwain: "Discouraged workers" and other Farkers who haven't actively sought work for more than a year should be added back into the statistics.

I'm assuming this wouldn't mean reincluding most retirees or those physically or mentally incapable of holding a job.

I agree - a friend of mine has been out of work for nearly a year and his unemployment benefits have probably stopped coming in. I can't see why he shouldn't be counted as "unemployed but looking"

There are jobs, but some people won't lower themselves to take them.

I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

They're leaving their... jahbs..?

GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

And that is why today we have multiple numbers. The commonly cited unemployment number is relative to the work force. There are other numbers which calculate the size of the work force relative to the size of the population. If we still used 1930s calculations, any woman out on family leave would be considered unemployed, as would many retired people.

ADP does payroll for 1 out of every 6 Americans. 2 years ago they started putting out their own jobs report, some economists believe is actually more accurate than NFP because they use their own raw data.

Their report comes out 2 days before NFP. Their data shows that in December we lost 700,000 jobs.

I submitted it Wed but of course it wasn't green lit because I had no snarky headline, but whatever.

PoopStain: No surprise there. Democrats have been inventing new rules for statistics since FDR. Don't like a number? Change the criteria and change the number!

Democrats just made the chronically unemployed Democratic voters. It's not a bad deal - you get food, housing, and transportation subsidies as long as you keep voting them in.

Is this satire? If so, it's brilliant. Very funny. If not, you're an idiot and need to go log off the internet. You're too stupid to be using machines, you may hurt yourself or others

GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

But since Americans with those jobs can't afford the higher price of those good and services - the makers of said goods and services would just lay off the Americans with those jobs.

GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Yeah, you're right. Picking fruit and cleaning houses. Last time I checked, neither of those would support a middle class family. But good try.

GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Most fruits and vegetables would rot in the fields

BunkyBrewman: "Under President Lyndon Johnson, the government decided individuals who had stopped looking for work for more than a year were no longer part of the labor force. This dramatically decreased the jobless rate reported by the government."

I'm curious to if there is a higher percentage of individuals who have been unemployed for more than a year now, as compared to the Johnson administration era.

/524,000 jobs lost in December
///the unemployment rate is now 7.2%
///numbers literally just released this morning

Actually, it's not that they were unemployed for a year, but they had stopped looking for work for more than a year. This implies they were unemployed for even longer than that.

Gamer Grrrl: Yeah, you're right. Picking fruit and cleaning houses. Last time I checked, neither of those would support a middle class family. But good try.

Nobody has the right to live a middle class lifestyle.

Gamer Grrrl: GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Yeah, you're right. Picking fruit and cleaning houses. Last time I checked, neither of those would support a middle class family. But good try.

lol..haven't you heard? You'll be working on road and highway crews soon enough.

ptelg: GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Most fruits and vegetables would rot in the fields

not if people are hungry enough.

EatHam: And that is why today we have multiple numbers. The commonly cited unemployment number is relative to the work force. There are other numbers which calculate the size of the work force relative to the size of the population. If we still used 1930s calculations, any woman out on family leave would be considered unemployed, as would many retired people.

Good point. Back in the 30s, women weren't working as much as today. If the husband lost his job, that was the household income. Today, one spouse may lose their job, but another spouse could be working. It is good to understand the assumptions and data when comparing statistics from two different periods.

EatHam: Gamer Grrrl: Yeah, you're right. Picking fruit and cleaning houses. Last time I checked, neither of those would support a middle class family. But good try.

Nobody has the right to live a middle class lifestyle.

You're right. But replacing middle class jobs with low income jobs is definitely the wrong direction to go. Let's hope Americans are never so desperate that they are happy to take the jobs illegals do for us today. And no, we're not there yet.

GaryPDX: Gamer Grrrl: GaryPDX: Whamdangler: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

You'd pay more for most goods and services.

But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Yeah, you're right. Picking fruit and cleaning houses. Last time I checked, neither of those would support a middle class family. But good try.

lol..haven't you heard? You'll be working on road and highway crews soon enough.

Typically, those are middle income jobs (so long as you don't live in San Francisco or Hawaii). Sure, they're not HIGH middle income, but they're skilled labor.

And no, I won't. I suspect it'll be all those unemployed construction guys.

I'm just underemployed now, so I don't count, either.

/cut my hours almost 50%
//Farking from home 2 days a week, the horror

GaryPDX: But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Americans don't do those jobs now. That is why we have people clamoring over the border. They'll work the jobs our lazy fat asses won't.

You think "Joe Six Pack, Large Deep Dish, and a side of Cheesy Fries" will work that job cleaning rooms at Motel Six at $7.00 an hour? Nope.. he will say "I can't afford it", "Its below my standards", "I'm an American dammit, I'm entitled!!!". Meanwhile the immigrant (yeah, illegal) will work that job and take another to make ends meet.

I applaud most (always a disclaimer) illegal immigrants if they want to face the dangers of trying to get into this country and make a life for themselves by taking our crap jobs.

atlanta_ufo: Good point. Back in the 30s, women weren't working as much as today. If the husband lost his job, that was the household income. Today, one spouse may lose their job, but another spouse could be working. It is good to understand the assumptions and data when comparing statistics from two different periods.

All I know is that black employment was *much* higher in the 1850's.

_{/runs and hides.}

Gamer Grrrl: Let's hope Americans are never so desperate that they are happy to take the jobs illegals do for us today. And no, we're not there yet.

So what you're essentially saying is that jobs that illegals currently perform are somehow "beneath" Americans? That's the attitude that made America a world power.

40yoVirgin: You think "Joe Six Pack, Large Deep Dish, and a side of Cheesy Fries" will work that job cleaning rooms at Motel Six at $7.00 an hour? Nope.. he will say "I can't afford it", "Its below my standards", "I'm an American dammit, I'm entitled!!!". Meanwhile the immigrant (yeah, illegal) will work that job and take another to make ends meet.

The problem is that the job pays $7 an hour. My father built roofs and installed swimming pools when I was a kid, and he came home hot, dirty, and exhausted every day, but it paid enough so that we didn't have to apply for food stamps to make ends meet.

40yoVirgin: GaryPDX: But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Americans don't do those jobs now. That is why we have people clamoring over the border. They'll work the jobs our lazy fat asses won't.

You think "Joe Six Pack, Large Deep Dish, and a side of Cheesy Fries" will work that job cleaning rooms at Motel Six at $7.00 an hour? Nope.. he will say "I can't afford it", "Its below my standards", "I'm an American dammit, I'm entitled!!!". Meanwhile the immigrant (yeah, illegal) will work that job and take another to make ends meet.

I applaud most (always a disclaimer) illegal immigrants if they want to face the dangers of trying to get into this country and make a life for themselves by taking our crap jobs.

THIS

/From San Diego. You'll get over it, America.
??Just sit down, STFU, and eat a tasty burrito, dammit!

Snarfangel: atlanta_ufo: Good point. Back in the 30s, women weren't working as much as today. If the husband lost his job, that was the household income. Today, one spouse may lose their job, but another spouse could be working. It is good to understand the assumptions and data when comparing statistics from two different periods.

All I know is that black employment was *much* higher in the 1850's.

/runs and hides.

LOL. I come to fark for the humor :)

Ikam: he came home hot, dirty, and exhausted every day, but it paid enough so that we didn't have to apply for food stamps to make ends meet.

Roofers and pool installers can make it now without food stamps.

GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

The bottom would fall out of the agricultural sector. Construction's already taken a dive, and this would probably finish it off. Massive business failures through the entire "small business" sector. As the housing debacle demonstrated, this would have reverberations through the entire economy. I know my company would suffer, since they provide coatings to the construction industry.

The Crepes of Wrath: Gamer Grrrl: Let's hope Americans are never so desperate that they are happy to take the jobs illegals do for us today. And no, we're not there yet.

So what you're essentially saying is that jobs that illegals currently perform are somehow "beneath" Americans? That's the attitude that made America a world power.

Sounds like it worked out pretty well for us.

40yoVirgin: GaryPDX: But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Americans don't do those jobs now. That is why we have people clamoring over the border. They'll work the jobs our lazy fat asses won't.

You think "Joe Six Pack, Large Deep Dish, and a side of Cheesy Fries" will work that job cleaning rooms at Motel Six at $7.00 an hour? Nope.. he will say "I can't afford it", "Its below my standards", "I'm an American dammit, I'm entitled!!!". Meanwhile the immigrant (yeah, illegal) will work that job and take another to make ends meet.

I applaud most (always a disclaimer) illegal immigrants if they want to face the dangers of trying to get into this country and make a life for themselves by taking our crap jobs.

You're not accounting for things getting worse and people doing jobs they don't like to survive. You need to understand, the condescending attitudes change as people get hungrier. In the end, people do what they have to to survive. OR, they could live off government welfare but that too, can't last forever. At some point, people will just have to do what they have to do.

40yoVirgin: Americans don't do those jobs now. That is why we have people clamoring over the border. They'll work the jobs our lazy fat asses won't.

There are plenty of people who will do those jobs in America.

Unfortunately, it's cheaper for a company to get illegal help, and generally no one says a word about them paying people under the table.

The Crepes of Wrath: Gamer Grrrl: Let's hope Americans are never so desperate that they are happy to take the jobs illegals do for us today. And no, we're not there yet.

So what you're essentially saying is that jobs that illegals currently perform are somehow "beneath" Americans? That's the attitude that made America a world power.

No, I'm saying those jobs won't pay the rent for American families. For illegal immigrants life in American is hard, but it's definitely better than life back home. It's an enormous improvement for them, and for their children. For Americans, it's a huge step down. Why step down when you can wait a while for the economy to improve and get a job that is much more closely aligned with your needs?

Millions of Americans "stepping down" into poverty would mean they lose their houses, their cars, and their cel phones. The economy would crash even harder than it already has. Millions more Americans would owe significantly more on their homes than they are worth, to a greater extent than exists today. And we already know what that situation has done to our economy. It would, simply put, cause a Greater Depression, not prevent it.

You are suggesting that millions of Americans who are living at the middle income level simply choose to become low-income, yet you don't expect there to be any negative repurcussions.

we're so broke and screwed. Without a middle class there will be no upper class. All the recent college grads will be picking strawberries next to jose and pedro (if your qualified).

Manual labor reigns supreme in tough times.

Gamer Grrrl: You are suggesting that millions of Americans who are living at the middle income level simply choose to become low-income, yet you don't expect there to be any negative repurcussions.

Yeah, obviously those Americans should stay unemployed and keep taking welfare checks.

t3knomanser: GaryPDX: I dunno, but what would happen if 20 million illegal foreigners suddenly went home?

The bottom would fall out of the agricultural sector. Construction's already taken a dive, and this would probably finish it off. Massive business failures through the entire "small business" sector. As the housing debacle demonstrated, this would have reverberations through the entire economy. I know my company would suffer, since they provide coatings to the construction industry.

This is going to happen anyway. America, and the world are adjusting. Living fast and loose on borrowed money has come full circle. It's only a matter of time. Two massive bailouts in under 12 months, Bush's TARP trillion and Obama's Restoration trillion. An additional TWO TRILLION in under 12 months. It's mind boggling. It's only deepening the inevitable crash which is already under way and cannot be stopped.

Ikam: The problem is that the job pays $7 an hour.

That is the wage that Motel 6 (or Brand X low wage company) pays in order to stay afloat, make a profit, and keep their shareholders happy.

They pay more, perhaps they go out of business and more jobs are lost.

EatHam: Roofers and pool installers can make it now without food stamps.

You obviously dont work in the building industry.

mesohorny: Without a middle class there will be no upper class.

That's just plain false. For millennia, there was no middle class.

GaryPDX: 40yoVirgin: GaryPDX: But Americans would have jobs, sounds fair.

Americans don't do those jobs now. That is why we have people clamoring over the border. They'll work the jobs our lazy fat asses won't.

You think "Joe Six Pack, Large Deep Dish, and a side of Cheesy Fries" will work that job cleaning rooms at Motel Six at $7.00 an hour? Nope.. he will say "I can't afford it", "Its below my standards", "I'm an American dammit, I'm entitled!!!". Meanwhile the immigrant (yeah, illegal) will work that job and take another to make ends meet.

I applaud most (always a disclaimer) illegal immigrants if they want to face the dangers of trying to get into this country and make a life for themselves by taking our crap jobs.

You're not accounting for things getting worse and people doing jobs they don't like to survive. You need to understand, the condescending attitudes change as people get hungrier. In the end, people do what they have to to survive. OR, they could live off government welfare but that too, can't last forever. At some point, people will just have to do what they have to do.

When Americans start taking the jobs illegals do today, the illegals will go home all on their own. And if that happens, we'll have more important things to worry about, like where dinner is going to come from.

What would a freelancer be under the old rules? They wouldn't be on the rolls as "having a job" but they'd be working. Or would they be "unemployed but looking" and still be able to collect?

PoopStain: No surprise there. Democrats have been inventing new rules for statistics since FDR. Don't like a number? Change the criteria and change the number!

Just like that hippie librul communist George W. Bush trying to get burger flippers counted as "manufacturing" jobs, right?

[1][2][3]
=Smidge=

Gamer Grrrl: When Americans start taking the jobs illegals do today, the illegals will go home all on their own. And if that happens, we'll have more important things to worry about, like where dinner is going to come from.

That's easy. From a beautiful woman in the vicinity of the kitchen.

/mmm, sammiches.

GaryPDX: You're not accounting for things getting worse and people doing jobs they don't like to survive. You need to understand, the condescending attitudes change as people get hungrier. In the end, people do what they have to to survive. OR, they could live off government welfare but that too, can't last forever. At some point, people will just have to do what they have to do.

Are we talking now, when then illegal immigration problem began, or in the future? We had illegal immigrants filling these positions when times were fat, dumb, and happy.

Somehow I don't think Americans are as tough and resilient as we were depicted in the Grapes of Wrath.

/just my personal opinion

Forced Perspective: Gamer Grrrl: You are suggesting that millions of Americans who are living at the middle income level simply choose to become low-income, yet you don't expect there to be any negative repurcussions.

Yeah, obviously those Americans should stay unemployed and keep taking welfare checks.

I'm not talking about welfare, I'm talking about unemployment. We already have rules in place so people on welfare have to become employed after a certain amount of time. You're talking about millions of Americans being on welfare because of a Great Depression. At that point, Americans WOULD take those terrible jobs. It happened the last time around. And when that happens, the illegals would go home anyway, because they wouldn't be able to compete for those jobs.

mesohorny: we're so broke and screwed. Without a middle class there will be no upper class. All the recent college grads will be picking strawberries next to jose and pedro (if your qualified).

That is, if those college grads don't have technical skills. There's huge demand for folks with technical degrees, and you can still make great money at it.

In preparation for going freelance I've been looking and I'll be able to just about double my income, even after taxes, and still work less.