Again proving itself to be the most ironically named website on the Internet.

American Wanker.

I have a $5,000 health insurance deductible, so I'm getting a kick out of this.

/HSA FTW.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week, and I'm kind of an idiot.

I can't believe someone actually put their name on that quote. It's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

My health care is free because I'm a Canadian. That said, $800 is kind of a lot to spend on a car repair. That's like $32 in real money, the kind that has a picture of the queen on the front and kids playing hockey on a frozen pond on the back.

Daschle assigns plenty of blame for the fix we're in, but for some reason never mentions, even in passing, the elephant in the room. Take an informal survey of doctors actively employed in American health care. Ask them what three things need to be "reformed" and I guarantee one of the items listed will be lawyers. Yet as I browsed the index of "Crisis" there is no mention of malpractice reform, tort reform, lawyers or defensive medicine.

Of the stunning amount of wrong in that screed, I'll choose today to address the tort reform issue.

Medical malpractice is a red herring. Malpractice insurance premiums in 2002 accounted for 0.58% of our total health care spending. Payout settlements accounted for 0.38% of our total health care spending. These numbers are from Americans for Insurance Reform.

Doctors mention tort reform because they write a check to their insurance company, and, like everyone, they hate to spend their own money. It has 'strong support' because insurance companies stand to profit if lawsuits are somehow capped or limited- it's part of the power of the interest groups that Mr. Daschle was talking about. But it's not a major contributor to healthcare costs.

pfft.

$500?

That's if you're lucky.

I've seen deductibles over $2000... and that's if you WORKED for that insurance company.

I'd love to have a $500 deductible, we have $2000 (per person, family is $6000), currently paying approx $5000 a year for premiums too. And all this is through my employer. They do this so nobody will use the insurance, I'm one of the few that use it, everyone else has to have a spouse with decent coverage.

SilentStrider: I've seen deductibles over $2000... and that's if you WORKED for that insurance company.

*DING DING DING*
winnah!

ever tried to get a rotator cuff (shoulder) rehabbed at $60 copayment per session?

Why is it that bushel of apples is $800 but a bushel of oranges is $500?

Not that it hasn't already been said, but I feel really, really lucky to have $1,000 deductible. I was unaware it actually got better than that.

$1000 annual deductible. $20 copayment for a normal physician visit. Are health insurance deductibles the new mortgage rates that we're allowed to brag about??

elvisaintdead: SilentStrider: I've seen deductibles over $2000... and that's if you WORKED for that insurance company.

*DING DING DING*
winnah!

ever tried to get a rotator cuff (shoulder) rehabbed at $60 copayment per session?

Seriously, you people can't just walk into an MRI clinic, hospital or clinic, point to the part that hurts, flash your health card and say "Fix me?"

My car slipped out of gear and rolled down the driveway hitting me before smashing into a tree, worst $1300 I ever had to spend.

Call me when people start going bankrupt to pay for fixing their cars.

40below: Seriously, you people can't just walk into an MRI clinic, hospital or clinic, point to the part that hurts, flash your health card and say "Fix me?"

pfft. First you have to go to your normal doctor, pay a copay, have them look at it and say "i'll refer you to a specialist".
At the specialist, you have to pay another (usually higher) copay. And if they need xrays/mri's what have you, you'll probably see someone ELSE. And probably pay yet another copay.

And then there's deductibles, and co-insurance. Oh, and you better hope you can get it authorized, and that your doctors sent you to your the correct lab/radiologist, because if they didn't, you could be on the hook for even more for going somewhere without a precert.

And heaven help you if you have a chronic condition that needs regular checkups and treatment, like diabetes. Then you're really up a creek.

Written by someone who has likely never been uninsured, or had anything happen to them that their insurance company dicked them for. It's like the people who think that being college poor is exactly like being poor in real life.

When our car went in for engine work we could walk, bus, or bike. I don't need the car in order to not farking die.

What is this "insurance" you all speak of?

40below: My health care is free because I'm a Canadian. That said, $800 is kind of a lot to spend on a car repair. That's like $32 in real money, the kind that has a picture of the queen on the front and kids playing hockey on a frozen pond on the back.


A little off topic.... but....

If Canadians are "on their own", the how come they have someone else's queen on their money?

BigSnatch: Why is it that bushel of apples is $800 but a bushel of oranges is $500?

Winner.

So basically, it costs alot of money to stay alive and in physical comfort, and that cost increases exponentially with age and physical activity. Therefore, the government should confiscate resources from healthy/prosperous people and use it to delay the inevitable pain and death of unhealthy/poor people.

The heart of liberalism is the inability of adults to intellectually cope with tragedy. What follows are policies so unreasonable and unjust that they become 10x as they egregious as the problem they are fighting against.

Not everyone gets to be born in the Hamptons, gets a 160 IQ, get to be a millionaire, or gets a team of doctors keeping them alive until age 113. But everyone dies. If you're looking for human equality, the only place you'll find it is in the cemetery.

TheAbstractor: So basically, it costs alot of money to stay alive and in physical comfort, and that cost increases exponentially with age and physical activity. Therefore, the government should confiscate resources from healthy/prosperous people and use it to delay the inevitable pain and death of unhealthy/poor people.

The heart of liberalism is the inability of adults to intellectually cope with tragedy. What follows are policies so unreasonable and unjust that they become 10x as they egregious as the problem they are fighting against.

Not everyone gets to be born in the Hamptons, gets a 160 IQ, get to be a millionaire, or gets a team of doctors keeping them alive until age 113. But everyone dies. If you're looking for human equality, the only place you'll find it is in the cemetery.


Wal Mart is a close second.

TheAbstractor:
The heart of liberalism is the inability of adults to intellectually cope with tragedy. What follows are policies so unreasonable and unjust that they become 10x as they egregious as the problem they are fighting against.

Not everyone gets to be born in the Hamptons, gets a 160 IQ, get to be a millionaire, or gets a team of doctors keeping them alive until age 113. But everyone dies. If you're looking for human equality, the only place you'll find it is in the cemetery.

That's true TheAbstractor. However, those Hampton-born, millionaire geniuses should not make it impossible for those of us born with more modest characteristics to live our lives with a modicum of dignity.

You don't have to repair your car if you don't want to, you may be able to find other modes of transportation.

BigSnatch: Why is it that bushel of apples is $800 but a bushel of oranges is $500?

[pause] ... Bwahahahahahaaa!

When did it become the conventional wisdom that paying 3 Trillion on a needless war is is lamentable but justified but taking care of the sick and needy in your own country is highway robbery?

They're just throwing out memes seeing which ones will stick in the American psyche. That's all politics is anymore, memes that keep the proles thinking whatever you want them to.

lomnoir: That's true TheAbstractor. However, those Hampton-born, millionaire geniuses should not make it impossible for those of us born with more modest characteristics to live our lives with a modicum of dignity.

And how exactly are they preventing that? Are there squads of rich people at the Hospital Doors blocking entrance to the Unwashed? Or are you in some subtle way suggesting that your ability to live with a modicum of dignity is somehow their responsability?

I have to agree with The Abstractor on this one. Doctors and nurses should *not* work for free, nor should they work for sub-par salaries. I wonder if those bemoaning the salaries of doctors have ever gone to medical school? Paid back those bills?

The article is correct.

40below: My health care is free because I'm a Canadian.

Provided by the Health Insurance Fairy?

Be sure not to miss Carol's analysis of the future of healhtcare under an Obama administration

Link (new window)

But try to imagine health care in the world of Obama. All of us will be enlisted in the Community Service army, where patient care is merely ancillary to your job. Now we will leave work to go staff the after school program at the new community center. Next weekend it's over to the mall where we will work the voter registration table. It's all part of "enhancing the hospital service to the community." Because in Barack and Michelle's world, there's no individual patient. Only a vast, nebulous "community." Welcome to ACORN General.

When did it become the conventional wisdom that paying $800 dollars for a car repair is lamentable but justified, but having a $500 health insurance deductible is highway robbery?

Who pays 800 dollar for car repairs? If your car insurance deductible is that high, I laugh at you. Most repairs that expensive are major damage caused by something that insurance should cover. Routine maintenance notwithstanding.

GoldSpider: 40below: My health care is free because I'm a Canadian.

Provided by the Health Insurance Fairy?

Collectivized to cover every single Canadian for anything and it's still half the cost of your health system that covers a portion of your population and feeds an entirely parasitical insurance industry.

Car repair and health care. Good comparison.

It's not "Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness and a Sweet Ride" submoran

40below
My health care is free because I'm a Canadian.

it is? You pay much higher taxes and you say its free?

Sure...........

BTW just how long a wait for a MRI is it? Last I checked it was 6 months average wait.

The ability of the right to create and then believe wholly in the flimsiest of false equivalencies never fails to amaze me...

notto: Be sure not to miss Carol's analysis of the future of healhtcare under an Obama administration

Link (new window)

But try to imagine health care in the world of Obama. All of us will be enlisted in the Community Service army, where patient care is merely ancillary to your job. Now we will leave work to go staff the after school program at the new community center. Next weekend it's over to the mall where we will work the voter registration table. It's all part of "enhancing the hospital service to the community." Because in Barack and Michelle's world, there's no individual patient. Only a vast, nebulous "community." Welcome to ACORN General.

I've read this at least four times, and it makes no goddamn sense. WTF point is she trying to prove here? Maybe I'm just thick.

winterwhile: 40below
My health care is free because I'm a Canadian.

it is? You pay much higher taxes and you say its free?

Sure...........

BTW just how long a wait for a MRI is it? Last I checked it was 6 months average wait.

It depends on what you're getting the MRI/test for. My sister lives in Montreal, and she had to get a mammogram to check out a lump - she had an appointment and results within a week. I'm not saying this is a perfect system, but if your need for a test is emergent, you're not going to have to wait for months and months to get it.

Welfare Peanut Butter: WTF point is she trying to prove here? Maybe I'm just thick.

OBAMA BAD! BAAAAAAD!

Around the time we realized the civilized world has socialized health care, but not socialized car repair.

My deductable's $500 and I work in a hospital, so I'm naturally getting a kick...

PoopStain [TotalFark]

The Government outlawed Free Market systems in health care to make it cheaper. The result is more expensive health care

No, I think the physical well being of my family and myself is more important than a car repair. Apples and oranges. If given the choice of either giving up driving or giving up living, I am sure more people would choose to give up driving.

TheAbstractor: The heart of liberalism is the inability of adults to intellectually cope with tragedy. What follows are policies so unreasonable and unjust that they become 10x as they egregious as the problem they are fighting against.

Actually, that pretty much describes how conservatives reacted to the 9/11 attacks.

karasoth: The Government outlawed Free Market systems in health care to make it cheaper. The result is more expensive health care

The free market system allows a man to die on the steps of a hospital if he can't immediately afford care or secure a loan to cover the cost. Most people have sufficient empathy and compassion to see that as unacceptable.

Also, what is the value of a medical procedure that will save your life? Everything you have and more.

winterwhile: I would rather pay $10000 to a company than $5000 in taxes for the same care because taxes are evil

Good Point!

Blathering Idjut: TheAbstractor: TheAbstractor: The heart of liberalism is the inability of adults to intellectually cope with tragedy.

Whereas conservatism has no heart at all.

Also, malpractice suits are in no way responsible. If they were, then Florida (which capped malpractice damages) would have the cheapest health care in the US.

I see this retarded level of thinking at least every other day in the office.

Your body is more important than your car.

Good mechanics are expensive. Good doctors are even more.