The town is willing to spend $300,000 to pave the road but is not willing to use eminent domain to acquire the necessary right of way.

There are disputes like this in Massachusetts too, usually over plowing in winter. The city next to me has been illegally plowing private roads at public expense for decades. Other towns do it legally. There's some magic spell that must be recited to make it legal, I think. Other disputes are over whether a road is legally a road at all -- it might be a public road, private road, or not a road, and each status has important implications for rights and obligations of governments and abutters.

On the other hand, when my father built a few houses in Connecticut the town required him to build a paved road and give it to the town to be maintained as a public road. He did, and it is.

Do other parts of the country have the same issues with private roads that we have in New England?

cool story bro

You know what we call a private road in Michigan?

A "driveway".

Pave it yourselves, or let other people drive on it, you stuck-up gits.

Dirt Road vs. Hershey Highway?

Ha some people just think they deserve everything! If it's private they should pave it.

FTFA: "People here can't afford that," Palermo said. "Where is the common sense? What the town is saying is they can't pave the road and make it safer because if they did that would make them more liable. Well, if there were a fire in my house and emergency vehicles couldn't get to me in time, who would be liable then? I still think it would be the town."

Umm, no.

Wow. That's just a whole load of douchebaggery there.

I truthfully can say I sympathize with absolutely no one in that article. That's pretty bad.

Not entirely the town's doing:

FTA: ...officials say they cannot even move forward on a $300,000 improvement project approved by the Town Council in 2001 because one of the homeowners refuses to give up a part of her property....

Further complicating the process, they say, is nobody knows who owns the road.

You moved there, and you still decide to stay there. STFU or GTFO.

ZAZ: Do other parts of the country have the same issues with private roads that we have in New England?

I'm in Texas, and our county's rules may be different than other counties, buuuuuuuut.... basically our rules here are that if you have 3 or more separated buildings with addresses on one driveway, we give it a number and it's a private road. The residents of that road can petition to have it named a real name, but those residents are all responsible for the maintenance of their road and that is all over their private road documentation.

I'm not sure exactly what it takes to get it from a private road to a public road, but I'm guessing it has something to do with ceding the Right of Way to the city or county. If the resident from TFA doesn't want to release their property to the town, then that is their right as a property owner.

HOWEVER, I think it's shameful that they don't really knows who owns the rest of the road. Somebody should know and there should be at least one person who can definitively say yes or no on the subject. All this hemming and hawing just pisses everybody off, aye?

I sympathize with the poor dead children. Of course, since they're dead, they probably don't want or need my sympathy anyway.

twunt

t-WUNT

n

1. A person, usually female, who causes and exacerbates problems, impedes socioeconomic and personal progress, and expects the world to cater to her whims.
2. See Kelley Cipolla.
ex. "No way, never, I'm not going to agree to it," Cipolla said. "I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't want any of my property taken that would mean having a road right next to my house. I don't understand why the town can't just pave the road or put in some catch basins that would solve the problem."

Libertarianism works!

/Dodges flying keyboards.

Jubeebee: twunt

t-WUNT

n

1. A person, usually female, who causes and exacerbates problems, impedes socioeconomic and personal progress, and expects the world to cater to her whims.
2. See Kelley Cipolla.
ex. "No way, never, I'm not going to agree to it," Cipolla said. "I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't want any of my property taken that would mean having a road right next to my house. I don't understand why the town can't just pave the road or put in some catch basins that would solve the problem."

Why doesn't she just pay for the extra catch basins?

FTFA: "No way, never, I'm not going to agree to it," Cipolla said. "I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't want any of my property taken that would mean having a road right next to my house. I don't understand why the town can't just pave the road or put in some catch basins that would solve the problem."

I count two fails and one lulz in that statement.

Rule number one in buying a home: it's all about location, baby.

If the road is so steep that it's a hazard to drive on as a dirt or gravel road in the winter, just how safe do these geniuses figure it'll be when it's nice, smoooooooooth blacktop? Connecticut is not San Francisco - you can't just say fark it and pave a steep grade without ever having a thought to winter weather. The next thing they'll complain about is how unsafe the intersection between the bottom of their road and the main road is.

AFAIC, if people want to live up on a hill so that they can be secluded and/or have a great view, then they have to deal with the consequences of getting there. It's really not the town's problem.

I'm kinda split on this. First the people that own houses obviously knew the condition of the dirt trail since they had to drive up it to see the house they were buying or the lot that they built on. So on one hand I want to say "tough titty" to them. But, on the other hand if these people live within the boundaries of the town and the town is collecting taxes from them then the town should pave the road.

As for the one old bag that won't give up any of her property so the road can be paved, why don't they either:

1) Pave the road after her property? Since from the article it sounds like she's the first house on the road.

or

2) Take what land is needed from the other side of the road?

Scorched Colon:
As for the one old bag that won't give up any of her property so the road can be paved, why don't they either:

1) Pave the road after her property? Since from the article it sounds like she's the first house on the road.

or

2) Take what land is needed from the other side of the road?

I'll guess that the current trail already follows the best possible zig-zaggy path up a somewhat rocky hill, and it would be easier to take part of her property to create an elbow than it would to try to blast away some rock and make a too-tight turn.

The douchbaggery is strong on this one.

Lydia_C: Rule number one in buying a home: it's all about location, baby.

If the road is so steep that it's a hazard to drive on as a dirt or gravel road in the winter, just how safe do these geniuses figure it'll be when it's nice, smoooooooooth blacktop? Connecticut is not San Francisco - you can't just say fark it and pave a steep grade without ever having a thought to winter weather. The next thing they'll complain about is how unsafe the intersection between the bottom of their road and the main road is.

AFAIC, if people want to live up on a hill so that they can be secluded and/or have a great view, then they have to deal with the consequences of getting there. It's really not the town's problem.

Agreed. If these jackasses didn't want to drive on a crappy road, maaaaybe they should've looked into that more before they bought the place. Did they think that after they moved in that someone else would magically fly in and fix their problems?

If I ran that town I would say fark them, and stop plowing or salting the road. Do nothing to help when it floods, and stop garbage collection. Even if it meant lowering taxes for those residents accordingly. They knew what they were getting into, they can deal with the crazy biatch that lives at the bottom of the hill themselves.

TheChemist: Libertarianism works!

/Dodges flying keyboards.

Libertarianism is not the belief that the government should spend money on your private road.

The town will assess the property owners for the improvements ($20,000 each!) and pick up some of the tab since there is town land there too. This is a very common practice, at least around here (MA), for bringing expensive services (sewer, gas, etc) to houses without spending town funds or crippling the property owners.

And it seems that no one really knows if it's a private road or not which seems quite odd considering how far this has gotten.

Scorched Colon: But, on the other hand if these people live within the boundaries of the town and the town is collecting taxes from them then the town should pave the road.

Sure. But then it should lose "private" road access. I pay taxes but I don't expect the government to swoop in and fix my garage door if it's busted.

Gee, is there anything else this lady wants the town to do for her?

People would be amazed at how expensive it is to build roads, especially on steep, rocky hills like the one described. Maybe there are some civil engineers who can explain the process, but there is quite a bit of work involved. Beyond that, there is the maintenance and periodic replacement of the asphalt.

It's probably out of ignorance that she thinks a road can just be slapped down anywhere. She's being downright unreasonable to demand that they find a different way to pave the road so she doesn't have to give up any land, depending on how difficult it would be, the additional cost is probably far more than what her land is worth.

Maybe she would be willing to pay the difference so that she could keep her land and have the road paved? Nah, she wants to have her cake and eat it too, by the sounds of it.

If it is a private road then why don't the residents pave it themselves?


--approves


/Been there, done that.
//Everyone usually has a crazy cat-lady neighbour.

We almost bought property like that here in NC. In wintertime, locations like that are almost impassable due to ice and snow. Even a 4wd isn't gonna cut it in many cases.

And coming down a paved road like that is even worst, because you cannot stop, and just slide allllllllll the way down. Hell, my wife slide off the side of the road near our home, and it had only a 15% or so grade.

Around here, typically people living up there are snowbirds buying a second home, without a thought to where they will be living, or what will happen when winter hits.

And the reason the city won;t pave it is VERY vaild.. the costs of paving a monster road like that are sky high, and the taxes from that few homeowners wouldn't cover the costs for 20 years.

PLUS, when the idiots slide downhill into traffic, the city would be held accountable, and would be sued. Small towns can't afford paving private developments, and shouldn't HAVE to.

And all the mountaintop dwellings around here are ALL private communities.

They all have megabucks to get houses built up there (And the costs of mountaintop building are HUGE).. pave the damned thing yourself or quitcherbellyaching!

The article is full enough of stupid to go around to all parties.

No one knows who owns the dirt road? BS. If it doesn't have an actual "road" designation, then it is an easement shared by joint properties.

The township engineer is an idiot. Once more then one residence is sharing an easement, it needs to be brought up to county code PRIOR to the township engineer approving the builder's plan for the homes.

The builder should never have put more then one home on a single easement without doing the proper road improvements. That would make him a responsible builder, rather then a cheap bastard that may or should have been in jail by now for doing business the way he does.

The home owners are idiots for buying a house where eight other homes share a single driveway (probably no more then nine feet wide).

The town recognized the road should be brought up to code, or the $300K project to correct the situation would never have been approved. The use of eminent domain is warranted here as the home owners are at risk if there is a fire/medical/police emergency at one of the homes. If a situation like that happens, the township can look forward to losing a major lawsuit, and hopefully has enough insurance to cover it.

What is left to say but that all parties need to meet Darwin up close and personal.

The most stupid part of this, is that the town engineer could have prevented this as an issue if he was in any way competent.

As private property, officials say they cannot even move forward on a $300,000 improvement project approved by the Town Council in 2001 because one of the homeowners refuses to give up a part of her property needed to bring the road to minimum safety standards.

I say talk to the hand to them. Public funding is for public roads.

If they ever do pave that road, I have a feeling that Kelley Cipolla twat FTFA is going to be buried underneath it. From my experience in this whacky world we live in, anyone who starts out something by saying, "I'm not trying to be difficult, but..." is someone who is definitely trying to be difficult.

Agree with the above poster who said paving it will only make it worse (if ice is truly the problem).

notAnAnimal: Google map linky

Wow! That IS super twisty! In a completely straight, utterly unlike a corkscrew way.

Once more then one residence is sharing an easement, it needs to be brought up to county code PRIOR to the township engineer approving the builder's plan for the homes.


What?

All those residents are Republicans.

What, no one in this town ever heard of gravel? The road washes out and they refill the holes with dirt? Is there a wormhole to Florida there?

Cheesus: You moved there, and you still decide to stay there. STFU or GTFO.

Exactly. Were these other people choppered in to see their houses? They weren't aware, as prospective buyers, what they would be buying? On the other hand, we just bailed out a whole bunch of Wall Street assholes (and Detroit assholes) for being stupid, why not these people?

CasperImproved: I completely agree with everything you said that I could understand in a perfectly sane manner but you have to learn to write than instead of then it would be easier to read your post I think.

jumpin: Not entirely the town's doing:

FTA: ...officials say they cannot even move forward on a $300,000 improvement project approved by the Town Council in 2001 because one of the homeowners refuses to give up a part of her property....

Further complicating the process, they say, is nobody knows who owns the road.

When I lived on private road with 7 other families, our property extended across the road. Even had boundary markers in place. We all had to agree before any gravel was added and we all took care of the surface regardless of who "owned" that part of the road.

Didn't want the county to take it over.

/If these people want it improved, dip into your damned equity and everyone pays equal shares.
//Oh, Connecticut. Sorry about that no equity left on your over-appraised shacks.

Why don't they petition the government to install a funicular railway up the hill? Then they'd have a tourist attraction that could generate tax revenue...



/just wanted to mention funicular
//fun, funi, funicular!

ghare: All those residents are Republicans.

Not since they want the government to pay the bill for them. That would make them Democrats.

Apparently they want a single payer system for roads, too.

"I don't understand why the town can't just pave the road or put in some catch basins that would solve the problem."


two words, biatch.

PRIVATE
ROAD.

the dirt trail, which was used in the 1930s as acampsite, is not a town road

Eh? A trail is a campsite?

Perhaps the homeowners should have thought of this issue before buying a house with a private road?

That's kinda the problem. See, the state takes care of its own roads, and when they fall into disrepair, you can bring it up and demand that they fix it. When you have your own roads, then it's sort of up to you--whether you can afford it or not--to maintain them.

Oops.

I wish I could generate more sympathy, but up in Maine, there are a ton of folks who like their private roads. And guess what? They take care of them, themselves. It is often not as good, a damn sight more reckless and dangerous than public roads, but that's what they pay for.

Connecticut is chock full of folks who love to drape themselves with the rugged individualist sort of motif, up until it comes time to actually live like one, and the down sides are revealed.

I guess the folks who live on this little patch of heaven are going to have to get a blanket party for their little friend, and then say "Thank you!" to the town who is going to spring for the repairs to the road that they should have made years ago, themselves.

You think that folks are screaming about piddly crap like this now? Try instituting anything like a real Libertarian system on them, and you'll see folks suddenly rushing to the arms of the Commies and Facists who both at least made public works their mainstays.

Nick Nostril: Agree with the above poster who said paving it will only make it worse (if ice is truly the problem).

Wrong answer.

Paving an 8 ~ 9 foot dirt road into a proper 18 foot maintained road is always the better option. Ice is only an issue where improper drainage exists. Also, once paved, the township will plow it along with all the other roads it is responsible for.

That would allow the trash and mail folks to do their job correctly also.

Ok, if this chick lives at the bottom of the hill and doesn't want her stone wall knocked down then why should she have to suck it up to please all of the other people who chose to move further uphill on the dangerous crappy road? I'll bet their property values would increase far more than hers due to their views and they aren't being asked to give up any property. Maybe she just wants her uphill neighbors to deal with the consequences of their choices without screwing her over, kind of like the farkers here want people to be responsible for their choices to even move onto the damn road without screwing over taxpayers. I don't think she is trying to be difficult, but she isn't as screwed as the other people are because she made better choices.

They should petition the Sikorsky Plant for free copter rides to and from their homes.

Looks like they got a few extra copter's hanging around doing nothing. Takes

I imagine that paving a road would increase the value of the homes so I can understand the motivation here.

Sadly, the articled mentioned children killed in a traffic accident near/on the intersection.

The deaths were due to the mother's DRUNK DRIVING, if I read the article correctly, not the condition/location of the road.