How's that socialized medicine working out for you?

/runs

That's because the calendar shoots are at night. Duh

I wonder how much of a cost-cutting measure that will be after the lawsuit...

johnsoninca: I wonder how much of a cost-cutting measure that will be after the lawsuit...

But, see, that lawsuit payout is from a different pot of money. So socialized/socialised health care is still a'right, innit?

Three days before Clare gave birth, her waters broke and she was taken to hospital by husband Tim, 32. As she was only at the 30-week stage, doctors kept her in for two days to monitor her and the baby - but then sent her home, despite her complaining of agonising back pain.
================================

That hospital just has all sorts of morons working there.

/Jack shiat to do with socialized medicine, dipshiats.

Look what's in store for the Soviet States of Obamastan.

Barry, Michael Moore and Al Gore sold us a bill of goods and we are all getting exactly what we deserve for it.

America will fail because we lost faith in it. We lost faith in America because we ignored truth in front of our faces to listen to these neo-Marxists and snake oil salesmen.

jake3988: Three days before Clare gave birth, her waters broke and she was taken to hospital by husband Tim, 32. As she was only at the 30-week stage, doctors kept her in for two days to monitor her and the baby - but then sent her home, despite her complaining of agonising back pain.
================================

That hospital just has all sorts of morons working there.

/Jack shiat to do with socialized medicine, dipshiats.

Quality of care and lack of available services has everything to do with socialized medicine....... dipshiat.

They make you wait all night here in the US too.

/both children born at 9.15am.

jake3988: That hospital just has all sorts of morons working there.

That's exactly the problem with government intrusion into health care.

I lived in England. The A&E (that's Emergency Room for Americans) I saw were outstanding, much faster than in the States and IMO more concerned with patient stabilization (even if it meant drugs, and lots of them, which some American hospitals are loathe to deal with, what with lawsuits and so on being endemic here).

But after that, care went downhill faster than Lance Armstrong coming out of the mountains in the Tour de France.

I had "private" health care, which meant I paid a fee. So off I went to the local dentist for an annual checkup and cleaning. I walked into this Soviet-style waiting room (actually, the hallway, lined with a mixed-bag of chairs, well-lighted with high-class buzzing fluorescent lights) and took my place. Once the staff realized I was on private health care, they ushered me upstairs to another waiting room, which was in the attic and had, at least, matching chairs.

And here's the laugh: it was the same dentist, with the same assistant, in the same room with the same dentist's chair, that the poor folks downstairs were waiting to see, and sit in.

I won't even get into the Monty Pythonesque eye doctor I went to see. I half expected to have Eric Idle jump out of the closet and declare a Spanish Inquisition.

This article should be required reading for anyone proposing Govt. healthcare.

laars: This article should be required reading for anyone proposing Govt. healthcare.

Dude, no British tabloid should be required reading for anyone. You might as well read a comic book.

I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Y'all can go back to your freeper boards now and continue whining about having lost the election, though.

coming soon to a city near you....

Queensowntalia 2009-01-04 11:35:21 AM
I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care - that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money. Socialized medicine is a terrible idea. I know a guy who was in Canada with his wife when she had a medical problem late at night. They went to the nearest hospital, which was open, except for one problem - NO DOCTORS TILL THE NEXT DAY! Everyone can get treated in the US - even the illegals. Get the facts from somewhere else than Koss or Huffington, Queenie.

Jean-Puc_Licard: They make you wait all night here in the US too.

/both children born at 9.15am.

Not if it's an emergency C-section. My middle child decided he couldn't wait and I had a C-section before the anesthesiologist got there. Thankfully, he was there by the time they were ready to staple my stomach.

/Yes, I did scream like a banshee
//the other two were between midnight and 3:00 am

happydude45: that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money.

Please let me know where these county hospitals are. The hospital and clinic here actually charge MORE if you have no insurance because the insurance companies have contracts to get better deals.

Don't you have a phone book?

Walker: How's that socialized medicine working out for you?

/runs

I know you're trolling but someone might actually think like that

i'm sure your baby will be delivered in a lovely hospital with great equipment and staff, oh unless you're poor, then you can fark off outside

gonzoliga: I lived in England. The A&E (that's Emergency Room for Americans) I saw were outstanding, much faster than in the States and IMO more concerned with patient stabilization (even if it meant drugs, and lots of them, which some American hospitals are loathe to deal with, what with lawsuits and so on being endemic here).

But after that, care went downhill faster than Lance Armstrong coming out of the mountains in the Tour de France.

Here's why: people dying on their watch is a problem. It means people will get sued and lose their jobs. So, they try to make sure it doesn't happen. Beyond that, they don't care. They don't care that nurses sit with their feet up at the "nurses station" while a patient is in discomfort. It's not like the patient will complain to the boss, and the boss will have to come down and give a "we are losing patients to other hospitals because of your sloppiness" speech, because the patients pay for the hospital regardless.

There are some great people in the NHS, but there are some real tossers, and you will get nowhere wasting your time complaining about them.

happydude45: Queensowntalia 2009-01-04 11:35:21 AM
I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care - that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money. Socialized medicine is a terrible idea. I know a guy who was in Canada with his wife when she had a medical problem late at night. They went to the nearest hospital, which was open, except for one problem - NO DOCTORS TILL THE NEXT DAY! Everyone can get treated in the US - even the illegals. Get the facts from somewhere else than Koss or Huffington, Queenie.

Right, anyone can get medical care... and be in debt for the rest of their lives... or skip out on the payments and have it payed for by people who HAVE insurance! Brilliant!

While I'm a huge opponent of socialized health care, this isn't a case that I would necessarily chalk up to bad health care or health care providers. Yes a c-section could of been performed emergently to save the baby, but if you work in some of the areas around me, you'd be lucky to find a doctor who can perform one. I'm guessing the person who delivered the baby wasn't a trained ob, or family practitioner trained in high risk ob. Studies have shown that you can deliver a breach vaginally with forceps and have just as good of an outcome as with c-section, and it can be done faster, so this nuchal cord might not of been an issue had that been done. This is not the fault of an anesthesiologist or lack of having one. If a person comes in laboring at 30 weeks she should of been transferred to a facility with more acute care, but if she's not laboring I can see why they did what they did. The fact that they sent her home tells me she wasn't laboring in the hospital. When she came back, she may have been to far along to transfer. It's a cluster fark, and possibly some one dropped the ball, but sometimes things just go bad, and there's not a thing we can do about it.

Jean-Puc_Licard: They make you wait all night here in the US too.

/both children born at 9.15am.

That would come to a big surprise to my ex (had our son at 9:30 PM) and my best man (both his children born by C-section at night). Oh, and these were at 3 different hospitals in 2 different states.

Might as well throw in my 2 cents...

I don't want socialized medicine in the U.S. It's a one-size-fits-all system and works poorly in all other areas that the gov't has mandated it. How's social security working for us? Poor grannies pinching pennies between SS checks while millions of new retirees bankrupt the system that many existing retirees have to depend on.

The current U.S. healthcare system has big problems but a national system will replace those problems with worse ones AND make us dependent on who's in Washington, D.C. to fix each of them. Care to bet your life of a politician to fix them on time?

Here's what we really need in the U.S...
- Get rid of unnecessary regulation in areas that don't affect patient care but add to healthcare overhead costs.
- Tighten regs in areas that DO affect patient care.
- Create incentives for insurance carriers to offer individual insurance policies not tied to your employer and still be affordable. Millions don't have insurance because we're still relying on a WW2 style health insurance system. Allow illegal aliens to buy private insurance policies but also stop letting them get a free ride if they refuse.
- Use some of the savings from the above to offer tax credits to those that can't afford private insurance and don't have an employer plan.
- Get the FARKIN' LAWYERS out of the waiting rooms. The tort lottery system is bankrupting the doctors still willing to put up with our messed up health care system.

I expect to be flamed by the Obama-messiah followers and the Mike Moore morons but I don't care. I just don't expect a Democrat congress to do any of the above and we'll suffer for it.

/Peace out

happydude45: Queensowntalia 2009-01-04 11:35:21 AM
I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care - that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money. Socialized medicine is a terrible idea.

A county hospital that provides full treatment to those who cannot afford to pay would be socialized medicine. Duh.
Yes, there are publicly-financed hospitals that provide some vague semblance of medical care for those who cannot pay. They are hardly "county" in the sense that they exist in every county. The overwhelming majority of hospitals in the US are private, and whether they are not-for-profit (as most are) or for profit, the only care that they are required to provide for those who don't have insurance (that they accept) or the ability to pay up front (or prove their ability to do so) is a: through the ER, which is a very inefficient place to deliver care and b: stabilizing care. That is, they patch you up, they don't treat you.

That point aside, people die in the US every day from the negligence of hospitals and their staff. That's not unique to socialized systems.
Oh, and the infant mortality rate in the UK is about 25% lower than in the US. But don't let those pesky statistics get in the way of your self-confirming anecdotes.

I don't understand this, America.

It's okay to shovel billions of tax dollars to prop up financial institutions and the auto industry and to keep the markets artificially moving so that money doesn't fall out of the hands of the wealthy, but it's some how it's evil socialism if tax dollars are used to pay for adequate health care for everyone?

America is pretty much alone as the only society that doesn't consider access to health care as being some kind of right, or at least an important part of a compassionate society.

For some reason, quality health care and a healthy life are something that one has to earn in the US, but being able to buy a $400,000 house on a $40,000 / yr salary is some kind of inalienable right.

There are horror stories in every hospital, private or socialized, and they can be used anecdotaly to prove any viewpoint. But the vast majority of the time, socialized health care in a western country like Canada or the UK is a far better thing than the over-priced, overly litigious, insurer-driven, profit hungry, and unequal system that Americans seem to be so freaking proud of.

mookiedood: I don't understand this, America.

3/10; plenty of depth, but you just need to try harder.

Anyone can essentially walk into any ER in America and expect to be triaged, treated if appropriate, and/or have emergency care as needed. You can even be admitted and operated on for a life or limb threatening condition. I know. I do it every day of my life. I don't always get paid. But I always get held accountable.

As for the infant mortality nonsense, it is well known that if a baby even looks remotely viable in the US it is counted as a live birth. In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.

I haveseen health care around the world first hand. Be greatful you are here.

mookiedood: I don't understand this, America.

It's okay to shovel billions of tax dollars to prop up financial institutions and the auto industry and to keep the markets artificially moving so that money doesn't fall out of the hands of the wealthy, but it's some how it's evil socialism if tax dollars are used to pay for adequate health care for everyone?


See, your examples here also should be serving as proof as to why we CAN'T do that. Would affordable health care for everyone be great? Of course! But do you REALLY think that our government is capable of doing this? It's all well and good to wish this was possible, but unless you're delusional everyone knows deep down that if the US moved to a socialized form of health care that it would turn into a MUCH bigger f'ed up mess than it already is. Do you actually think in the end this would save anyone money? No! You'll end up paying a lot more additional taxes each paycheck than you did with private health care, and god help you if you get sick and it's not life threatening. Does something need to be done about our current situation? Of course, but is this the answer? fark no.

Seriously people, can anyone give any examples of a service the government provides that isn't horribly bloated and inefficient? You're all mad if you think handing health care over to the government is the answer.

MacGabhain: But don't let those pesky statistics get in the way of your self-confirming anecdotes.

THIS. I don't care what happened to you. If you're anecdotes don't back up the aggregate data from a large number of people, then they're just interesting/boring stories. See here (new window).

TheChemist: MacGabhain: But don't let those pesky statistics get in the way of your self-confirming anecdotes.

THIS. I don't care what happened to you. If you're anecdotes don't back up the aggregate data from a large number of people, then they're just interesting/boring stories. See here (new window).

...and yes, I'm aware I used the wrong "your".

somedoctorguy:
In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.


Uh, no. (new window). You fail.

somedoctorguy: Anyone can essentially walk into any ER in America and expect to be triaged, treated if appropriate, and/or have emergency care as needed. You can even be admitted and operated on for a life or limb threatening condition. I know. I do it every day of my life. I don't always get paid. But I always get held accountable.

As for the infant mortality nonsense, it is well known that if a baby even looks remotely viable in the US it is counted as a live birth. In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.

I haveseen health care around the world first hand. Be greatful you are here.
.....

You may get emergency care, but if you want preventative care and don't have insurance, you're screwed. I'm Canadian, and my mom had to have heart valve replacement surgery. She was feeling weak, went to the doctor, who sent her to specialists, got checked out, and had a surgery date scheduled within a week. Sure, the system is not perfect, and if you may be waiting for weeks or months for a specialist for some things (say, an ACL screening). If you ask my mom, she couldn't be more grateful.

TheChemist: somedoctorguy:
In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.


Uh, no. (new window). You fail.

You fail. They were never counted as a live birth. Therefore, they never existed to be counted. It is true. Nothing in this citation refutes this.

rancidPlasma: somedoctorguy: Anyone can essentially walk into any ER in America and expect to be triaged, treated if appropriate, and/or have emergency care as needed. You can even be admitted and operated on for a life or limb threatening condition. I know. I do it every day of my life. I don't always get paid. But I always get held accountable.

As for the infant mortality nonsense, it is well known that if a baby even looks remotely viable in the US it is counted as a live birth. In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.

I haveseen health care around the world first hand. Be greatful you are here.
.....

You may get emergency care, but if you want preventative care and don't have insurance, you're screwed. I'm Canadian, and my mom had to have heart valve replacement surgery. She was feeling weak, went to the doctor, who sent her to specialists, got checked out, and had a surgery date scheduled within a week. Sure, the system is not perfect, and if you may be waiting for weeks or months for a specialist for some things (say, an ACL screening). If you ask my mom, she couldn't be more grateful.

She needed her heart valve replaced. What did they prevent?

Both my wife and I have experienced socialised medicine back home in Australia. I've only ever had to worry about checkups and very minor problems (eg: sprained ankly), my wife has been hospitalised several times, in addition to having an ongoing condition with a brain tumor.

Neither of us has ever had any complaints about the level or accessibility of care, nor the attitudes of the medical staff, who have all been thoroughly dedicated and professional across the board.

I'm not sure why some people think that the staff in a socialised medical system are going to be in some way inherently less "interested" in their patients, considering the other end of the scale. How interested do you think the staff at McDonalds are in their customers ? Because that's where a fully-privatised healthcare system is going to end up - nurses and other staff hired for the lowest possible wages.

somedoctorguy: rancidPlasma: somedoctorguy: Anyone can essentially walk into any ER in America and expect to be triaged, treated if appropriate, and/or have emergency care as needed. You can even be admitted and operated on for a life or limb threatening condition. I know. I do it every day of my life. I don't always get paid. But I always get held accountable.

As for the infant mortality nonsense, it is well known that if a baby even looks remotely viable in the US it is counted as a live birth. In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.

I haveseen health care around the world first hand. Be greatful you are here.
.....

You may get emergency care, but if you want preventative care and don't have insurance, you're screwed. I'm Canadian, and my mom had to have heart valve replacement surgery. She was feeling weak, went to the doctor, who sent her to specialists, got checked out, and had a surgery date scheduled within a week. Sure, the system is not perfect, and if you may be waiting for weeks or months for a specialist for some things (say, an ACL screening). If you ask my mom, she couldn't be more grateful.

She needed her heart valve replaced. What did they prevent?

------

Well, the way the specialist explained it, if left untreated, back flow of blood against the walls of the ventricle would eventually stretch it and lead to congestive heart failure. Plus her quality of life improved greatly.

Jean-Puc_Licard: They make you wait all night here in the US too.

/both children born at 9.15am.

When I needed an emergency C-section, they called my doctor in at about 4 a.m. (I'd never actually met the guy, but he was MY doctor). He came in wearing sweat pants, yelled at me because I couldn't answer a question while I was having a contraction, then reluctantly went and got the guy to help with the operation.

United States. Insured.

happydude45: Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care...

Nataline Sarkisyan wants to talk to you. Oh wait, no she doesn't, because she died largely because her insurance provider refused to cover the operation she needed.

Tessian:
Seriously people, can anyone give any examples of a service the government provides that isn't horribly bloated and inefficient? You're all mad if you think handing health care over to the government is the answer.

Because sometimes having a horribly bloated and inefficient system is better than not having one at all.

somedoctorguy: TheChemist: somedoctorguy:
In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.


Uh, no. (new window). You fail.

You fail. They were never counted as a live birth. Therefore, they never existed to be counted. It is true. Nothing in this citation refutes this.

"UNICEF developed, in coordination with WHO, the WB and UNSD, an estimation methodology that minimizes the errors embodied in each estimate and harmonize trends along time. Since the estimates are not necessarily the exact values used as input for the model, they are often not recognized as the official IMR estimates used at the country level. However, as mentioned before, these estimates minimize errors and maximize the consistency of trends along time."

By this standard, the UK still beats us, albeit within a smaller margin.

rancidPlasma: somedoctorguy: rancidPlasma: somedoctorguy: Anyone can essentially walk into any ER in America and expect to be triaged, treated if appropriate, and/or have emergency care as needed. You can even be admitted and operated on for a life or limb threatening condition. I know. I do it every day of my life. I don't always get paid. But I always get held accountable.

As for the infant mortality nonsense, it is well known that if a baby even looks remotely viable in the US it is counted as a live birth. In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.

I haveseen health care around the world first hand. Be greatful you are here.
.....

You may get emergency care, but if you want preventative care and don't have insurance, you're screwed. I'm Canadian, and my mom had to have heart valve replacement surgery. She was feeling weak, went to the doctor, who sent her to specialists, got checked out, and had a surgery date scheduled within a week. Sure, the system is not perfect, and if you may be waiting for weeks or months for a specialist for some things (say, an ACL screening). If you ask my mom, she couldn't be more grateful.

She needed her heart valve replaced. What did they prevent?

------

Well, the way the specialist explained it, if left untreated, back flow of blood against the walls of the ventricle would eventually stretch it and lead to congestive heart failure. Plus her quality of life improved greatly.

First, sounds like she had a good outcome. I hope she is doing well.

The point of my question was this: she presumably has been seeing her doctors regularly for "preventive care" and yet, has sudden onset of symptoms and needs major heart surgery within a week. Therefore, the heart valve condition was not "prevented". It was identified early and corrected. That is good. But the expense of the heart valve surgery was not avoided.

Even here, when we identify problems early, many people choose not to have surgery or otherwise manage their condition (like diabetes). It is not because they are "bad" people, they are just people.

In socialized systems, people are still just people. They have a large number of complications from poorly managed chronic health conditions too. It is because people are just people. Socialized systems readjust some of the economic burdens, but in a way that many would find unacceptable.

TheChemist: somedoctorguy: TheChemist: somedoctorguy:
In many other countries, infants that are not expected to survive and die within a day or two of birth are routinely NOT COUNTED as a live birth and ignored for statistical purposes. Thus the number problem.


Uh, no. (new window). You fail.

You fail. They were never counted as a live birth. Therefore, they never existed to be counted. It is true. Nothing in this citation refutes this.

"UNICEF developed, in coordination with WHO, the WB and UNSD, an estimation methodology that minimizes the errors embodied in each estimate and harmonize trends along time. Since the estimates are not necessarily the exact values used as input for the model, they are often not recognized as the official IMR estimates used at the country level. However, as mentioned before, these estimates minimize errors and maximize the consistency of trends along time."

By this standard, the UK still beats us, albeit within a smaller margin.

Garbage in, garbage out. Statistics are used to "minimize" the errors. My argument stands. Nothing new under the sun.

Consider this: In the US abortions are routinely carried out up to 23 weeks of gestation. Strangely, resusitacions of spontaneous births are successful fairly commonly as young as 24 weeks of gestation. These kids, who are born with their eyes fused shut, are commonly sent home as viable children. Do you think that this even remotely happens in most other countries around the world? Not even close. Those kids who fail do end up in the US statistics though.

Most people in the US think that socialized medicine will be essentially the same system we have now, but they won't get a bill. If you look at all socialized systems, there is in fact some form of rationing going on or there is a private pay opt-out situation. Interestingly, Canada does not have a private pay option. Medical tourism is not unheard of there. Just ask any of the bordering US states.

Queensowntalia: I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Y'all can go back to your freeper boards now and continue whining about having lost the election, though.

It must be nice to live in an alternate reality. Nobody dies in the US because they can't afford health care. Emergency rooms are required to take you regardless of ability to pay. The county emergency rooms, however, are a prime example of socialized medicine in action, since they're government funded. If you kick it there, you won't die because you didn't have money, you'll die because you put your life in the hands of a government-funded facility, like the lady who (among many other fatalities there) was ignored to death by Los Angeles' King Harbor Medical Center, aka 'Killer King'.

gonzoliga
And here's the laugh: it was the same dentist, with the same assistant, in the same room with the same dentist's chair, that the poor folks downstairs were waiting to see, and sit in.

I don't see where "the laugh" is in that.
You didn't have to wait as long as the others?
They didn't fly in SuperDentist for you?

Walker: How's that socialized medicine working out for you?

This isn't socialised medicine. This is an NHS Trust, which is essentially a complicated system for over-paying money to private companies for substandard services whilst not needing to include the money spent in the budget, thus allowing the Treasury to "keep" "spending" "below" 40% of GDP.

There are three main reasons the US infant mortality rate is higher than that of many other nations.

3. differences in reporting rates.
2. differences in definition of "live birth".
1. differences in drug abuse, prenatal care, etc.

The hospital care for deliveries and neonates is top-notch in the US. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for our drug rehabilitation programs. Nor are all Americans likely to take advantage of prenatal checkups, vitamins, etc. The differences there (most of which are cultural rather than economic) are a much larger factor than reporting standards or hospital care.

/really getting a kick out of these replies.

Queensowntalia: I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works

Except in cases like the one in the article, lifesaving procedures like C-sections are done regardless of the ability to pay in the United States, and those procedures are even available at night. I think I'll take that thank you.

happydude45: Queensowntalia 2009-01-04 11:35:21 AM
I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care - that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money. Socialized medicine is a terrible idea. I know a guy who was in Canada with his wife when she had a medical problem late at night. They went to the nearest hospital, which was open, except for one problem - NO DOCTORS TILL THE NEXT DAY! Everyone can get treated in the US - even the illegals. Get the facts from somewhere else than Koss or Huffington, Queenie.

Uh... didn't Fark link to an article about a girl who was denied a kidney because her father couldn't pay a while back? She subsequently died.

And you're a goddamn moron.

tarquinrainbowtrout: Walker: How's that socialized medicine working out for you?

/runs

I know you're trolling but someone might actually think like that

i'm sure your baby will be delivered in a lovely hospital with great equipment and staff, oh unless you're poor, then you can fark off outside

YOu are so very wrong. Especially in the case of emergency C-sections.
No doctor will let a woman "fark off outside" when she's in labor, even if she's poor & has no insurance...despite what the socialized medicine people will tell you.

lewismarktwo: happydude45: Queensowntalia 2009-01-04 11:35:21 AM
I might point out there are plenty of people in the US dying because they cannot afford healthcare. So its not like the system we have now works.


Nobody's dying cause they can't afford health care - that's why we have county hospitals to treat those that don't have insurance or money. Socialized medicine is a terrible idea. I know a guy who was in Canada with his wife when she had a medical problem late at night. They went to the nearest hospital, which was open, except for one problem - NO DOCTORS TILL THE NEXT DAY! Everyone can get treated in the US - even the illegals. Get the facts from somewhere else than Koss or Huffington, Queenie.

Right, anyone can get medical care... and be in debt for the rest of their lives... or skip out on the payments and have it payed for by people who HAVE insurance! Brilliant!

It's better than being dead. Or having a dead baby.