In every suburban American (and probably Canadian) Catholic church, you can tell which family listened to the birth control BS (and honestly, I don't remember ever being lectured on it - maybe it comes up during the marriage counseling?).

By "which", I mean, there's usually just one in the entire congregation, they have 6-9 kids, and if not for the circumstances of their birth they'd be fundies probably.

Mind you - I went to school with two girls who had six brothers and sisters, and they were great and well adjusted. Their dad was a doctor, but they scaled down their lifestyle to support the extra kids. Great family, the lot of them.

Every other family averaged damn near exactly 2.5. I'm sure they just abstained though.

I don't mind the church going off on this sort of thing until it leads to excommunicating South American nuns giving out condoms to prohibit the spread of HIV-AIDS. Then I have issues.

Wait. How does a pill taken by women cause the male partner to become sterile?

It's like Chewbacca, who is a Wookie, living on Endor, with Ewoks. But, he's a Wookie, who is from the planet Kashaak, it makes no sense!

hardinparamedic: Wait. How does a pill taken by women cause the male partner to become sterile?

It's like Chewbacca, who is a Wookie, living on Endor, with Ewoks. But, he's a Wookie, who is from the planet Kashaak, it makes no sense!

those trace amounts of female hormones excreted from women in the form of urine build up in the water supply which ends up in the food chain.

Pope: Are you sure we can get away with publishing this? Really?

Cardinal X: Are you kidding me? Have you seen the creationist dinosaur museum in America? We're gettin' punked out there Benny! C'mon!

Pope: Print it!

C'mon, this guy seems alright, I'm sure we can trust him.

/hot like the fires of eternal damnation

Didn't rtfa, but there are all sorts of drugs in the water supply. Caffeine, hormones, and lots of others. The effect? Could be some, certainly.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: In every suburban American (and probably Canadian) Catholic church, you can tell which family listened to the birth control BS (and honestly, I don't remember ever being lectured on it - maybe it comes up during the marriage counseling?).

By "which", I mean, there's usually just one in the entire congregation, they have 6-9 kids, and if not for the circumstances of their birth they'd be fundies probably.


Having grown up attending Catholic churches in Ohio, Arizona, New Mexico, and Kentucky, I can fully attest to the accuracy of this statement. Although in some larger churches, there might be three or four families like this.

MacG: Didn't rtfa, but there are all sorts of drugs in the water supply. Caffeine, hormones, and lots of others. The effect? Could be some, certainly.

Right, but because it's printed by a religious organization it should be discounted outright.

Overpopulation, meanwhile, has no environmental consequences whatsoever.

_{/up yours pope
//and curse you for bringing disrepute on my awesome middle name}

Be more fun to see their heads explode trying to justify the stance against birth control on Biblical grounds. As with the stance on abortion, it can't be done.

Dispector: Right, but because it's printed by a religious organization it should be discounted questioned outright.

We'll start with that, as we should all statements such as:

FTA: "We have sufficient evidence to state that a non-negligible cause of male infertility in the West is the environmental pollution caused by the pill," he said, without elaborating further.

emphasis mine.

We'll get to the counting/discounting once the evidence is presented and examined using a method that rejects bias.

If I ever buy a racehorse, I'm naming it "up yours, pope."

Every sperm is sacred;
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighborhood.

Outtaphase: Dispector: Right, but because it's printed by a religious organization it should be discounted questioned outright.

We'll start with that, as we should all statements such as:

FTA: "We have sufficient evidence to state that a non-negligible cause of male infertility in the West is the environmental pollution caused by the pill," he said, without elaborating further.

emphasis mine.

We'll get to the counting/discounting once the evidence is presented and examined using a method that rejects bias.

To be fair, they're not used to elaborating or providing proof after stating their findings.

Outtaphase: We'll get to the counting/discounting once the evidence is presented and examined using a method that rejects bias.

You're just asking for a place in Hell, using the Devils Logic like that.

CheddarPants: StreetlightInTheGhetto: In every suburban American (and probably Canadian) Catholic church, you can tell which family listened to the birth control BS (and honestly, I don't remember ever being lectured on it - maybe it comes up during the marriage counseling?).

By "which", I mean, there's usually just one in the entire congregation, they have 6-9 kids, and if not for the circumstances of their birth they'd be fundies probably.


Having grown up attending Catholic churches in Ohio, Arizona, New Mexico, and Kentucky, I can fully attest to the accuracy of this statement. Although in some larger churches, there might be three or four families like this.

Born 'n raised in Michigan, but if we ever went on vacation we had to find a church on Sunday. Or skip communion until we could get to confession.

My brother and I were pretty much the only damn kids ever in line at the confessional.

Anyhow, I have a random sampling from Canada to Florida, but I'm impressed that rule of thumb works in the SW / whatever you'd consider Kentucky too.

Q: What's the difference between an enzyme and a hormone?

A: You can't hear an enzyme.

/God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut!

Actually, if I'm not mistaken this is a big problem in England. Some river, that supplies a large portion of water for several large cities, has elevated levels of female hormones and is causing diminished sperm counts in men and fish to become predominately female.

Ennuipoet: C'mon, this guy seems alright, I'm sure we can trust him.

/hot like the fires of eternal damnation

Oh man, the pope clearly likes indie rock.

pxlboy: hardinparamedic: Wait. How does a pill taken by women cause the male partner to become sterile?

It's like Chewbacca, who is a Wookie, living on Endor, with Ewoks. But, he's a Wookie, who is from the planet Kashaak, it makes no sense!

those trace amounts of female hormones excreted from women in the form of urine build up in the water supply which ends up in the food chain.

Um, no they don't get excreted in a bioavailable, bioactive form. And if they did, they're biodegradable, so they don't "build up". And if they did, not enough human females are taking enough hormones to do anything significant.
And if all of this pseudomedical claptrap were true, the sum, "built up" quantity of hormones from all women who have become pregnant and peed during their pregnancy would have already caused the Earth to be destroyed and all males to become sterile.
Since women still need to take BC, men are not all sterile.
Since I am typing this, the Earth hasn't been destroyed.

However, I don't mind that the Catholic Church has its occasional little tantrum. Dying throes are to be expected.

Sounds like all global climate change threads here on Fark.

Sure, climate is changing all the time, but when people get all uppity about it, you know there's a political agenda.

dahmers love zombie: Since I am typing this, the Earth hasn't been destroyed.

Oh, hasn't it?

Honestly now...

Hasn't it?

Which color pill did you take?

Methinks the Vatican could spend its time better by researching and correcting the whole priest / altar boy thing.

/Don't need an agenda to look into that.
//nosiree.

IQ7ZuuIU: Methinks the Vatican could spend its time better by researching and correcting the whole priest / altar boy thing.

I believe that have done that and they're still doing that. You should get something new.

The only possible 'hidden agenda' I can think of would be increasing market share.

Um, they may be a bit right here. The estrogen amounts in the water are very high these days, and that has been linked to gender ambiguity in fish and some loss in human male sperm production. They are most certainty biased, and are probably only partially right, but I think they are partially right.

As if male sterility would deter people who would use birth control pills from using them.

The article was promptly dismissed by several organisations.

/THREAD

Is this before or after the condom gives you aids?

GAT_00: Um, they may be a bit right here. The estrogen amounts in the water are very high these days, and that has been linked to gender ambiguity in fish and some loss in human male sperm production. They are most certainty biased, and are probably only partially right, but I think they are partially right.

Even if they are, and it's making some men sterile, that's a good thing. Human overpopulation is the greatest cause of misery on the planet.

This is where I leap in to promote copper IUDs in place of the Pill (to everyone aside from women who use the Pill for more reasons than just birth control, that is.)

I love my Flexi-T.
Of course, the Catholic Church claims it is an abortificant. Because anything that is cheap, effective and has low impact on the environment/health should not be promoted.

Celibate old guys are set up as the authority on sexing and relationships.

That's like having high school dropouts set up as the authority on astrophysics.

Procedural Texture:
/up yours pope
//and curse you for bringing disrepute on my awesome middle name

Your middle name is Ratzinger?

This is not news. This has been a relatively hot topic - hormone residue (from a variety of medications, not just birth control) acting as an endocrine disruptor in aquatic environments. This is of course in addition to all the other nasty stuff in there.

What this study presents isn't a reason to limit birth control.

It's a reason for better sewage treatment and better watershed management in general.

Mnemia: Even if they are, and it's making some men sterile, that's a good thing. Human overpopulation is the greatest cause of misery on the planet.

Except that it's not overpopulation in the United States or other developed countries, where we find these abnormal levels of water contaminants, that's the problem. It's overpopulation in areas that can't sustain the resource demands.

Mnemia: Even if they are, and it's making some men sterile, that's a good thing. Human overpopulation is the greatest cause of misery on the planet.

I believe induced sterility should be a personal choice and not one forced upon you. I suppose you don't mind becoming sterile?

I can respect (even if I do not 100% agree with) opposition to abortion. I recognize that even if it's legal, even if God does forgive us for doing it, or if there is no God to forgive, there are still repercussions which will haunt the individual for life. If a young girl came to me, told me she was pregnant, and sought my advice of what to do, abortion would not necessarily be something I suggest.

That said, I cannot and will not respect opposition to abortion coupled with opposition to birth control.

Especially from little-boy-farkers.

Religious people - continuing ignorance and stupidity since the (well, their version) start of time itself.

2009 and the human race still believes an invisible man in the sky wants us to have sex this way but not that way.

_sigh_

G2V: Is this before or after the condom gives you aids?

To be fair, the lie that they told in my Catholic high school sex ed classes was just that condoms don't prevent HIV. They claimed that because condoms contain pores larger than the HIV virus, that "obviously" it's not effective. This neglects the fact that it's actually flow of fluid containing the virus that transmits HIV, and that significant fluid flow cannot take place through those pores. The virus particles cannot magically find the holes in a condom; they have to be carried through there within fluid. I never believed a word of this, and pointed out in class that their "information" conflicted with WHO and CDC-endorsed research studies. They told me I didn't know what I was talking about and that it wasn't "appropriate" to talk about this in that "setting".

Though I'm pretty sure some Catholic bishops in places like Africa have actually endorsed the position that condoms actually cause AIDS. In any case, anyone trusting any piece of information about artificial birth control put out by the Catholic Church is a complete idiot. They have proven over and over again that they will blatantly and shamelessly lie (see my story above) to promote their agenda on this issue.

And of course it MUST be the hormones from the birth control pill and not something like cadmium, PAH or any of the 9999999 other substances that have been shown to have a negative effect on the environment. What they do is reverse pseudo-science: they start with the conclusion "the pill is bad" and then they comb for facts to support it at any cost.

/I know. Sorry but your man boobs are still most likely caused by too much pizza and beer.

teqman: Except that it's not overpopulation in the United States or other developed countries, where we find these abnormal levels of water contaminants, that's the problem. It's overpopulation in areas that can't sustain the resource demands.

The United States cannot sustain the resources demands either, if other countries decide to stop loaning us unsustainable levels of debt. Guess what's happening?

Ennuipoet: C'mon, this guy seems alright, I'm sure we can trust him.

/hot like the fires of eternal damnation

Methinks the Vatican could spend its time better by researching and correcting the whole priest / altar boy thing.

Exactly. Maybe cancel their pedophile free pass program.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: In every suburban American (and probably Canadian) Catholic church, you can tell which family listened to the birth control BS (and honestly, I don't remember ever being lectured on it - maybe it comes up during the marriage counseling?).

By "which", I mean, there's usually just one in the entire congregation, they have 6-9 kids, and if not for the circumstances of their birth they'd be fundies probably.

You made me smile with this....I was raised Catholic, and after hearing about the thoroughly disgusting and sinful act of sex at age 11 or so (from other, pagan 11-year-olds, not a responsible adult), I would count the number of kids in a family's pew at church and think to myself, "Oh my God, Mr. and Mrs. Walsh did that NINE times!....Holy crap, those people did that ELEVEN times!!! SICKOS!!!"

Irish Catholics on the South Side of Chicago had some farking big families in the 60's and 70's. My parents had five kids and we were one of the smallest families in our neighborhood.

Fortunately, now I know better, and am sick of priests who spew this garbage as if they have a clue about normal healthy human behavior, or science in general.

/no longer Catholic

Whew! it's about time, I hate going through a whole day without a Christian bashing thread...


BASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBAS H BASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASHBASH BASHBASHBASHBASHBASH


/ahh, now I can sleep peacefully....

ohnonotfloridaagain: Fortunately, now I know better, and am sick of priests who spew this garbage as if they have a clue about normal healthy human behavior, or science in general.

...says the man on Fark

teqman: Except that it's not overpopulation in the United States or other developed countries, where we find these abnormal levels of water contaminants, that's the problem. It's overpopulation in areas that can't sustain the resource demands.

And also, overpopulation in the United States actually is worse than overpopulation in other areas, because it means that we just take more natural resources from other places to fuel our unsustainable lifestyles. You can't just view countries in isolation in our global economy.

Dispector: I believe induced sterility should be a personal choice and not one forced upon you. I suppose you don't mind becoming sterile?

Nope, I wouldn't really mind that much if I became sterile. Not everyone is destined to have kids, and the more people decide they don't want them, and stop listening to religious lunacy preaching against birth control, etc the better off we all are. I agree that in general this should not be forced on people. But if a small percentage of people are affected as an unintended side-effect of birth control pills, I don't believe this is anything all that tragic when we look at it in the macro scale. All I'm saying is that fertility is not all that important, when our real problem is overpoulation.

In any case, this conclusion is probably a lie or some other twisting of the data, given that it comes from the Catholic Church and supports attacks on artificial birth control.

Mnemia: GAT_00: Um, they may be a bit right here. The estrogen amounts in the water are very high these days, and that has been linked to gender ambiguity in fish and some loss in human male sperm production. They are most certainty biased, and are probably only partially right, but I think they are partially right.

Even if they are, and it's making some men sterile, that's a good thing. Human overpopulation is the greatest cause of misery on the planet.

Religion and the belief in some kind of magical sky wizard is the greatest cause of misery on the planet.
/snark away.

I wouldn't call it a hidden agenda, subby.

I've always figured that packaging the pill comes in is pretty harmful to the environment. Why not just get a normal pill bottle instead of that individually wrapped wackiness?

/Not as bad as Accutane though. When I was 15 there were little "no pregnant ladies" tabs all over my house. Yeah newsflash Accutane, I'm a dude. You can stop warning me not to get pregnant.