"...How was this going to be the solution to peace?"

Um.

Am I losing it or are these Londoners calling on a country to respond with diplomacy to random terror bombing? I thought the British response to rockets was supposed to be nightime incindiary bomb raids.

The thing is, if israel wants peace at this point, they may just have to kill every single palestinian in the world.

Because every one of them left alive after this is going to be pretty pissed off about it for the next 80 to 120 years.

Kiribub: "...How was this going to be the solution to peace?"

Um.

Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination. Neither side has any interest in peace, and they are acting as such.

Best solution is to embargo both sides, eventually they will run out of missiles, rockets, and bomb... then they will get tired of hitting each other with rocks and sticks... and then they might be willing to look at peace.

Only three more years until the world ends anyway. What's the harm?

Code_Archeologist: Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination.

i'm pretty sure Israelis would stop shooting palestinians completely and just ignore them if the the palestinians in turn stopped randomly rocketing them and bombing their buses and pizza parlors.

albo: i'm pretty sure Israelis would stop shooting palestinians completely and just ignore them if the the palestinians in turn stopped randomly rocketing them and bombing their buses and pizza parlors.

I'm pretty sure palestinians would stop rocket and suicide attacks if Israel would stop bombing them from airplanes.

I'm very sure I don't care. Really. None of the various factions/states are about to change their stances and will keep doing exactly what they've been doing for the past fifty years. Good luck with that.

"Here comes the whine again. Falling on our ears like some moron's din."

Meanwhile, not far from where Annie Lennox's lives:



OH NOES!! ANOTHER PEACE SOLUTION!!

Code_Archeologist: Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's both side's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination.

FTFY.

Anyway, there will be no peace until both sides have a fundamental change in attitude and realize the other side has some valid points regarding several key security, economic and religious issues.

Until then: Peace for a time until Hamas decides its time to annoy Israel by lobbing bombs into Israel either for some reason. Israel retaliates massively as that is all anyone seems to understand. Hamas looks sympathetic as they surround their military infrastructures with civilian housing meaning innocents will be hit or killed. Everyone gets pissed at Israel, who seems like the picked on kid who just can't win when he finally decides he's not going to take it anymore. Hamams gets a new generation to become martyrs. Israelis see reason to keep things status quo for security reasons, especially when they realize most of the destruction was to military targets. Rinse and repeat again in a year or two without anything else being accomplished.

albo: Code_Archeologist: Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination.

i'm pretty sure Israelis would stop shooting palestinians completely and just ignore them if the the palestinians in turn stopped randomly rocketing them and bombing their buses and pizza parlors.

Yeah, the Israelis would stop shooting/bombing the Palestinians and go back to seizing property and relocating Palestinians peacefully into ever smaller enclaves. Nobody in this situation is blameless. Both sides deserve to be beaten with a hickory switch till they can't sit.

Asa Phelps: The thing is, if israel wants peace at this point, they may just have to kill every single palestinian in the world.

Because every one of them left alive after this is going to be pretty pissed off about it for the next 80 to 120 years.

Yup, pretty much. :-/

I've been glued to Al Jazeera the last few days. While I realize that Hamas (or some overzealous douchebag faction of Hamas, anyway) started this round, the Israeli response is completely ridiculous and entirely far out of proportion. They are following the same failed policy the U.S. has taken with the whole war on terrorism.

For every innocent Palestinian child, mother, father, brother, sister that is killed by Israeli "surgical strikes", they are further pushing the general Palestinian public into extremism. It would be the same for any beseiged and relatively defenseless population.

I don't understand why they can't see this.

Hamas has killed 4 israelis with their latest random volleys of rockets.

Israel has killed more than 400 palestinians in retaliation.

I really don't see how any moral country can support either of them.

damageddude: Until then: Peace for a time until Hamas decides its time to annoy Israel by lobbing bombs into Israel either for some reason. Israel retaliates massively as that is all anyone seems to understand. Hamas looks sympathetic as they surround their military infrastructures with civilian housing meaning innocents will be hit or killed. Everyone gets pissed at Israel, who seems like the picked on kid who just can't win when he finally decides he's not going to take it anymore. Hamams gets a new generation to become martyrs. Israelis see reason to keep things status quo for security reasons, especially when they realize most of the destruction was to military targets. Rinse and repeat again in a year or two without anything else being accomplished.

Hamas lobbing unguided rockets randomly into Israel is a lame-o response to Israel's continued policy of essentially locking up the Palestinian population behind walls and generally oppressing them. I don't support what Hamas did to start this round any more than I do the Israeli response, but someone has to claim the higher moral ground here, and Israel is in a far better position to do so.

makes me some tea: I don't understand why they can't see this

They do. The Israeli government know what's on Al Jazeera and how this makes them look (again) to the Arab world. They just don't care, since they're the most powerful army in the region and the only one to have nuclear weapons. So they're totally safe from retributive attack.

Of course, it doesn't jibe with the official Israeli line that they're basically trying to protect their poor defenseless country from evil murderous Arabs who just hate them for no reason.

Nothing about the Occupation and OF COURSE nothing about the last 18 months of Israel limiting aid and food shipments to Gaza to tighten the noose.

Because not only is that irrelevant, but you're implying you co-founded Dachau by bringing it up.

Code_Archeologist: albo: Code_Archeologist: Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination.

i'm pretty sure Israelis would stop shooting palestinians completely and just ignore them if the the palestinians in turn stopped randomly rocketing them and bombing their buses and pizza parlors.

Yeah, the Israelis would stop shooting/bombing the Palestinians and go back to seizing property and relocating Palestinians peacefully into ever smaller enclaves. Nobody in this situation is blameless. Both sides deserve to be beaten with a hickory switch till they can't sit.

Israel pulled out of Gaza -- how did that work out for them? Oh, just brought the rockets further into Israel?

Hamas wants nothing to do with peace. In fact, by having their rockets fired from the middle of civilian areas, they are hoping to get civilians killed from Israeli retaliation so they can then go crying to the press for free propaganda. Idiots like Annie Lennox eat that shiat up apparently (as do many idiots on Fark -- P.B., looking at you).

jakomo002: They do. The Israeli government know what's on Al Jazeera and how this makes them look (again) to the Arab world. They just don't care, since they're the most powerful army in the region and the only one to have nuclear weapons. So they're totally safe from retributive attack.

Of course, it doesn't jibe with the official Israeli line that they're basically trying to protect their poor defenseless country from evil murderous Arabs who just hate them for no reason.

Nothing about the Occupation and OF COURSE nothing about the last 18 months of Israel limiting aid and food shipments to Gaza to tighten the noose.

Because not only is that irrelevant, but you're implying you co-founded Dachau by bringing it up.

It's so ironic, that only 60 years after being massacred in ethnic concentration camps, the Jews have managed to create their very own version of it on another ethnic population. Indigenous ethnic population, mind you. In the lens of recent history, the arabs were there first. No one can argue that point.

make me some tea: In the lens of recent history, the arabs were there first.

why stop at "recent?" why not go back to the phoenicians? they were there first. or the neanderthals? they were there firster. or homo erectus? they win the argument.

Let's be honest: As far as the arabs are concerned, the fight isn't about whose land it is, really. It's about the fact that israel exists in the first place, that jews dare to exist and dare to live near them.

they hate jews with all their heart, inculcate their children with this hatred of jews, and perpetuate their grievances which will not stop until every Israeli jew is pushed into the sea.

Now, what should be a "proportional" response to an attack by people who believe this? should Israel make their own homemade rockets and fire them back? that's proportional. When someone is coming at you with a club, you don't get a stick and swing back when you have a .45 1911 government model with a laser-sight.

albo: they hate jews with all their heart, inculcate their children with this hatred of jews, and perpetuate their grievances which will not stop until every Israeli jew is pushed into the sea.

And why do they hate the jews so? You mean they just hate them because that's the fashionable thing to do? If the Israelis weren't continuously so hawkish in their dealing with them, the hatred would dissolve away in just a couple of generations. As it stands, even if they suddenly changed their policy to one of benevolence right now, they'd still have 40 years before the Palestinians came around to any degree of moderation. Every time Israel carpet bombs them, it's just pushing any hope for peace back further. It will never end until one of them destroys the other at this rate.

Code_Archeologist: Yeah, people need to just come to terms with the fact that Israel's aim is not one of peace and reconciliation, it is one of extermination.

Regardless of who you feel is more to blame for the Israel/Pasestine mess, this is a very silly statement.

If Israel wanted to exterminate the Palestinians it would simply do so. Israel has the military might. Israel has the weapons. Israel has the ability to rain death upon Gaza and the West Bank for days, levelling both territories and killing everything that moves. They have not done so and it is very unlikely that they will do so.

Now ask yourself...if Hamas had that kind of power -- the power to flatten Tel Aviv -- do you think they'd exercise any restraint at all?

make me some tea: In the lens of recent history, the arabs were there first. No one can argue that point.

Huh? The Israelis have been there for around 5000 years. How long do they have to live there before everyone else decides to quit trying to kill them for daring to be something other than Muslim?

make me some tea: Hamas lobbing unguided rockets randomly into Israel...

Asa Phelps: Hamas has killed 4 israelis with their latest random volleys of rockets.

Well, let me fire rockets at your houses and lets see what your responses are. I'm sure both of you would come running out to apologize for doing whatever it was that upset me, right?

PacManDreaming; Well, let me fire rockets at your houses and lets see what your responses are. I'm sure both of you would come running out to apologize for doing whatever it was that upset me, right?

Deal.

But first, I'm going to go to your house, take you and your wife and your family out of there, and I'll lock you all in the shed in your backyard. I'll be moving into your house.

You get two meals of Kraft Dinner every day, and if you want to leave the shed, that's cool, but if you want to leave my backyard, you might never be allowed back in.

Oh, and did I mention that I'm putting up extra fences in the backyard so you don't get uppity?

Oh crap, did I forget to mention the garden is mine too?

Oh, and please don't look in my windows. I put landmines in front of them just to remind you.

jakomo002: Deal.

But first, I'm going to go to your house, take you and your wife and your family out of there, and I'll lock you all in the shed in your backyard. I'll be moving into your house.

You get two meals of Kraft Dinner every day, and if you want to leave the shed, that's cool, but if you want to leave my backyard, you might never be allowed back in.

Oh, and did I mention that I'm putting up extra fences in the backyard so you don't get uppity?

Oh crap, did I forget to mention the garden is mine too?

Oh, and please don't look in my windows. I put landmines in front of them just to remind you.

That would be all fine and dandy, but I have yet to strap on a dynamite vest and kill innocent people. So, I haven't really earned the fences and landmines like the Palestinians have.

Here, read this and see if you still feel like the Palestinians haven't earned the response they're getting. (new window)

PacManDreaming: That would be all fine and dandy, but I have yet to strap on a dynamite vest and kill innocent people. So, I haven't really earned the fences and landmines like the Palestinians have.

Except the Palestinians didn't start using suicide vests until years into the Occupation... which I suspect you already know.

So maybe after a few years, you'll be willing to kill yourself to kill me, but till then, stay in the farking shed and stfu.

make me some tea: It's so ironic, that only 60 years after being massacred in ethnic concentration camps, the Jews have managed to create their very own version of it on another ethnic population.

If you could identify one death camp in Gaza or the West Bank, you might have a point. If what you said is true, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left.

jakomo002: Except the Palestinians didn't start using suicide vests until years into the Occupation... which I suspect you already know.

No, they were using vehicles filled with explosives before that. Maybe if you did a little research, you'd know what bucket of shiat Hamas is. Until then, go suck off your parents until you get a little bit more of an education.

Comedian Alexei Sayle said he was speaking out because it was important for Jewish voices to be heard.

Like I want the opinion of a guy who'd rent to these morans...

Maybe I try to make things too simple....

Israel (mainly Jews) wants to have a couple of hundred square miles to call home. (and to be left alone).

Hamas and many other Islamic groups already have several million square miles but have to have what Israel wants, too. And to kill everyone that doesn't share their beliefs.

real shaman: Maybe I try to make things too simple....

Israel (mainly Jews) wants to have a couple of hundred square miles to call home. (and to be left alone).

Hamas and many other Islamic groups already have several million square miles but have to have what Israel wants, too. And to kill everyone that doesn't share their beliefs.

Yeah, you do try to make things too simple. The basis of this whole mess is wether a group of Jewish immigrants had the right, some 60 years ago, to go into the region - overwhelmingly Muslim - and say "Taa-daa...now there is a Jewish nation!!"

I have no dog in this fight...I think both sides are assholes. But Israel is a fact. It exists, it will continue to exist. Any serious effort towards peace must acknowledge this, and Hamas does not acknowledge this. fark them. To question Israel's right to exist is one thig, but to question their existence is folly, and people are dying because of it. Israel's hardly blameless, they can be every much the dick that Hamas is. But, ultimately, Hamas (et al.) must accept that Israel exists. There will be no solution until this happens. So, in that sense, Hamas and their allies are the foremost obstruction to peace.

albo: why stop at "recent?" why not go back to the phoenicians?

because thats just silly. Academically accepted start of this conflict will suffice.

Israel attacks Hamas because Israel knows the U.S. is going to give them ~ 3 Billion bucks/year + free military hardware. one of the many bennies of having the right folks in the right congressional seats.

meanwhile, the American taxpayer gets the big poop shoot shaft as his infrastructure fades and his public schools leak.

have a nice day!

Enough Sacred Sand war threads for one day. Can't we talk about people burying their children for invisible friends till tomorrow?

Kiribub: "...How was this going to be the solution to peace?"

Tennille: Tell me, young man, what do you want out of life?
Homer: I want peas!
Tennille: We all want peace! But it's always just out of reach.
Homer: (moans) Uh huh?
Tennille: So, what's the best way to get peace?
Homer: With the knife! (Gets his peas)
Tennille: Exactly! Not with the olive branch, but the bayonet! Ha, ha, Simpson, you're like the son I never had.
Homer: And you're like the father I never visit.

Article for the thread
IDF admits to overestimating Gaza rocket severity, but warns worst may be yet to come

Lennox and Jagger can do this because their careers are over.

I wouldn't pin my hopes on Mr. "no comment". The magic negro is going to disappoint a lot of people.

Lionel Mandrake: Hamas does not acknowledge this. fark them. To question Israel's right to exist is one thig, but to question their existence is folly, and people are dying because of it. Israel's hardly blameless, they can be every much the dick that Hamas is. But, ultimately, Hamas (et al.) must accept that Israel exists. There will be no solution until this happens. So, in that sense, Hamas and their allies are the foremost obstruction to peace.

Just hit google. Much of this crap is a political.

10 January 2007
Hamas accepts the existence of the state of Israel but will not officially recognise it until the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, according to the group's leader in Damascus, Khaled Meshaal.

Bianca Jagger was relevant when Studio 54 was still around.

Lionel Mandrake: There will be no solution until this happens.

You know who else wanted a solution...

No more "I Love Yous?"

GoodasGold: Lennox and Jagger can do this because their careers are over.

I wouldn't pin my hopes on Mr. "no comment". The magic negro is going to disappoint a lot of people.

Totally...if only we could rely on the wisdom of Palin in a time like this. A Constitutional Law Professor and former chair of the Foreign Relations Committee just don't have the moxie for this stuff. I bet they haven't even read all those papers that have been in front of them over all these years.

GoodasGold: The magic negro is going to disappoint a lot of people.

On the slim chance you're right, at least he'll always be able to say "well, at least I'm not the epic failure Bush was."

GoodasGold: Mr. "no comment"



Does he even need to say anything? We all know he's another pro-Israel puppet like anyone else trying to become President of the United States.

Linux_Yes: Israel attacks Hamas because Israel knows the U.S. is going to give them ~ 3 Billion bucks/year + free military hardware. one of the many bennies of having the right folks in the right congressional seats

you do know that this is because of camp david 30 years ago to get them to stop fighting egypt, and egypt gets a couple billion, too, for them not attacking israel, right?

vernonFL: Bianca Jagger was relevant when Studio 54 was still around coke was considered non-addictive and chic.

repaired for you

Um...could someone lease post some pics of Bianca Jagger circa 1977?

Darconix: At least Palin would scare the bejeebus out of BOTH sides. The Israelis would be worried that she's secretly hoping they get demolished so Jesus can come back and the Palestinians would know she's squarely on the Israeli side.

B Hussein would do the same. Israelis would be scared that he's actually a closet muslim and palestinians would know he's squarely on the Israeli side.

Darconix: Lionel Mandrake: Totally...if only we could rely on the wisdom of Palin in a time like this. A Constitutional Law Professor and former chair of the Foreign Relations Committee just don't have the moxie for this stuff. I bet they haven't even read all those papers that have been in front of them over all these years.

At least Palin would scare the bejeebus out of BOTH sides. The Israelis would be worried that she's secretly hoping they get demolished so Jesus can come back and the Palestinians would know she's squarely on the Israeli side.

Palin would've been infinitely better for dealing with this conflict than the magic negro. But we have what we have. Or we will, rather.

Why is anyone still even talking about that chick?

what I get a kick out of is this idea of proportionality people keep talking about. If Palestinians kill 4 Israeli civilians, and Israelis kill 300 Palestinians, that is morally wrong, because it is way out of 'proportion.' As if, the Israelis only have a green light to defend themselves as soon as the requisite number of their civilians have been killed. Would these bleeding hearts be more at peace if the Israelis only defended themselves on a 1 to 1 ratio? Or are they just supposed to just put up with the annoyance of being routinely shelled?

I don't know what general thinks its only fair to kill one of their guys so long as they've killed one of ours, you know, to make things even and fair.