To all those who think China will take over the planet...

Maybe

For one day and then the rest of the planet will crush them

The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

Cubist Robot Party: For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

"Made in China" clusterbombs^TM?

But I heard on fark.com that the missiles were home made rockets made out of soup cans. Surely this article is incorrect.

Ah, yes - providing Muslim fanatics with weaponry based on the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" theory. Bet it works out as well for them as it did for us.

glad to see the Hamas have soem quality weapons. Now i dont feel so bad about the slaughter.



die palestinian murdering assholes.


the chinks will self destruct so I got that going for me

Whatever happened to that TFer who was supposedly an expert on this area? I miss his essays.

That being said, messing with Israel is like poking a Pit Bull. They may gnaw you gently at first, but sooner or later they're going to lock their jaw on your neck and shake vigorously.

Well its not like the U.S. hasn't supplied the Israelis with arms that they've used to kill civilians...

At least china is better because they didn't give Bin Laden his training and weapons.

Well, I just checked and your not gonna be ordering them through taobao.com

\ searched for Katyusha and rockets.

svegle: Well its not like the U.S. hasn't supplied the Israelis with arms that they've used to kill civilians...

At least china is better because they didn't give Bin Laden his training and weapons.

It's not like the civilians are crying about Hamas blending in with them instead of saving their lives by distinguishing themselves.

evilelvis: To all those who think China will take over the planet...

Maybe

For one day and then the rest of the planet will crush them

There's over a billion of them. There's 150 million of us.

How do you like them odds?

America needs to convert to Buddhism. Christianity doesn't have compassion.

Dwight_Yeast: evilelvis: To all those who think China will take over the planet...

Maybe

For one day and then the rest of the planet will crush them

There's over a billion of them. There's 150 million of us.

How do you like them odds?

Offer the peasants a few dollars and TA DA, we've got another 600 million at least.

svegle: Well its not like the U.S. hasn't supplied the Israelis with arms that they've used to kill civilians...

At least china is better because they didn't give Bin Laden his training and weapons.

As opposed to who? Are you saying that America gave OBL some form of aid?

/Already know they didn't, Arab-Afghans were not the Afghans
//You could have said Hamid Gul or Gulbuddin Hekmatyar to make a credible point, but too late

Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

clancifer: Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

No problem with Israel defending itself.

My "problems" are thus:

1) A solid argument can be made that Israel responds to these attacks with disproportionate force. Israel will deny this because they would rather use the measure of quantities of attacks (number or rockets vs. military actions) instead of casualties, however expect this to start coming up quite frequently in the news in the months ahead, Israel certainly does which is why they've launched a YouTube channel to try and propagandize their military actions to the international community.

2) The objectives for Israel's use of force are not clearly defined in an operational capacity, as in how they are to achieve the end of hostilities against them. Generally speaking this is a simple concept - if an enemy is bombing you, you take out their air strips. If they are fielding infantry against you, you take out their infantry or supplys. It's hard to see how destruction of facilities such as Police Stations and Jails will bring about an end to Hamas rocket attacks. Some people will argue that the transitory nature of the rocket attacks/shelling means that this capacity of international law hamstrings Israel's military response capabilities - they are correct in that assumption. Interpreted this way, it's more likely that a police action instead of a military one would achieve their ends.

3) Israel's use of force tends to be highly politicized with responses and the severity of those responses varying depending on the internal political climate of the country or the election cycle in general. This should be a no brainer to most people (Remember, the accusations thrown at Bill Clinton that his missile strikes and the Bosnia intervention were to distract from his scandals? Same thing - except demonstratively provable).

Now, certainly I am not saying that they should do nothing in response to these attacks. However, what I am saying is that their current course of action appears to be directly in opposition to their stated political goal of ending the conflict and that the actions they do take are not very clear in their desired end results other than a very vague "If we do this, then they will stop."

I suppose I am saying that such terrible violence should be unleashed with transparency and a clear objective. This currently isn't the case, or at the very least, international opinion is that this isn't the case (which I tend to agree with).

Personally I believe that Israel is in more trouble than they realize (or perhaps they do realize it given the millions of dollars they have spent just in the U.S. alone propagandizing their recent actions). Nothing dire, at least I don't think so, but they certainly run the risk of moving the bulk of public opinion from "Let's stay out of it" to something more akin to, "What the hell are they doing?"

Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.

And Israel is not a victim.

Impossible. Cynthia McKinney said all of the rubble was caused by American rockets.

Whatever will complete the genocide of the arab population in gaza. It's all good.

clancifer: Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

What are the death tolls on either side?

nictamer: Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.

And Israel is not a victim.

What about the Jews in Europe? Did they deserve a chance to defend themselves? Did those Jews have a right to exist?

Israel should be glad they are from China, and not Stark Industries

Mrstupid7: clancifer: Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

What are the death tolls on either side?

Israel: 4
Palestine: Approximately 400

Phil Moskowitz: nictamer: Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.

And Israel is not a victim.

What about the Jews in Europe? Did they deserve a chance to defend themselves? Did those Jews have a right to exist?

Someone missed the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" speech in kindergarten.

Mrstupid7: clancifer: Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

What are the death tolls on either side?

maybe hamas should plan better next time

you can't blame LSU for Georgia getting slaughtered last night

The arguments here are another example of binary thinking, where people assume that if one side (pick either Israel or the Palestinians) is wrong then the other side must be right.

Large groups of leaders and people in both Gaza and Israel believe the only way to treat the other side is with force. And when they themselves are the target of force, this becomes justification for them to use more force. And so it escalates.

TwistedFark: Phil Moskowitz: nictamer: Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.

And Israel is not a victim.

What about the Jews in Europe? Did they deserve a chance to defend themselves? Did those Jews have a right to exist?

Someone missed the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" speech in kindergarten.

indeed.

The modern Israelis are as close to Nazis as we have today. The abused has become the abuser.

TwistedFark

Now, certainly I am not saying that they should do nothing in response to these attacks. However, what I am saying is that their current course of action appears to be directly in opposition to their stated political goal of ending the conflict and that the actions they do take are not very clear in their desired end results other than a very vague "If we do this, then they will stop."I suppose I am saying that such terrible violence should be unleashed with transparency and a clear objective.

Basically your whole post way saying they shouldn't respond because the logic your using is they should continue to take random rocket attacks from Hamas while asking Hamas in a nice way to stop. You said police action at one point in your post. Police should only be used in your country, when another country attacks you...you use the millitary. If hamas stopped attacking Israel would not have to respond.

nictamer
Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.And Israel is not a victim.

Stfu...I mean seriously if they didn't start randomly firing rockets to start with they wouldn't have to play the "poor us! Were the victim! I mean we did sucker punch em but still...."

TwistedFark: Mrstupid7: clancifer: Cubist Robot Party: The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site

For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

It's truly hard to blame Israel for wanting to defend itself.

What are the death tolls on either side?

Israel: 4
Palestine: Approximately 400

OK Israel, only 4 Israelis died, now you only get to kill 4 Palestinians. Ready.....go!

gothelder: Well, I just checked and your not gonna be ordering them through taobao.com

\ searched for Katyusha and rockets.

The Lord of War can probably help you out. Here is his business philosophy:

DgtlCalm: TwistedFark

Now, certainly I am not saying that they should do nothing in response to these attacks. However, what I am saying is that their current course of action appears to be directly in opposition to their stated political goal of ending the conflict and that the actions they do take are not very clear in their desired end results other than a very vague "If we do this, then they will stop."I suppose I am saying that such terrible violence should be unleashed with transparency and a clear objective.

Basically your whole post way saying they shouldn't respond because the logic your using is they should continue to take random rocket attacks from Hamas while asking Hamas in a nice way to stop. You said police action at one point in your post. Police should only be used in your country, when another country attacks you...you use the millitary. If hamas stopped attacking Israel would not have to respond.

nictamer
Palestine has a right to exist and defend itself.And Israel is not a victim.

Stfu...I mean seriously if they didn't start randomly firing rockets to start with they wouldn't have to play the "poor us! Were the victim! I mean we did sucker punch em but still...."

How many Jews have been killed in the past SEVEN YEARS?! 23 from rockets and mortars. Compare that to the palestinians deaths.

within 10 or 15 years, Communist China will the next Super Power and the U.S.'s power will wane over time.

China is going to be IT. you heard it here first.

I'm sure Israel isn't instigating a campaign of slow genocide. I mean, there's no evidence, right?

Steve Zodiac: The arguments here are another example of binary thinking, where people assume that if one side (pick either Israel or the Palestinians) is wrong then the other side must be right.

Large groups of leaders and people in both Gaza and Israel believe the only way to treat the other side is with force. And when they themselves are the target of force, this becomes justification for them to use more force. And so it escalates.

This is almost certainly correct - I have witnessed first hand the dehumanization practiced by both sides. In fact, it was quite disturbing to me since it shattered my entire "Shindler's List" Hollywood movie view of Judaism, or I should say more accurately - it forced me to separate in my mind the extreme sympathy I have for Holocaust survivors and the utter lack of it I have for the state of Israel.

When it comes right down to it, I don't particularly care very much for the Palestinians either since they keep supporting fools in leadership - but then again these "fools" are the ones that profit from Israel's excessive reactions by offering money and other types of aids to families who have born the brunt of the retaliations. In this way the cycle perpetuates itself.

Linux_Yes: China is going to be IT. you heard it here first.


Many of us heard that over 10 years ago brainiac.

svegle: Well its not like the U.S. hasn't supplied the Israelis with arms that they've used to kill civilians...

At least china is better because they didn't give Bin Laden his training and weapons.

Hamas and Israel are of equivalent moral standing because they're both trying to maximize civilian casualties? The carnage of just one minute of Israel, to say nothing of the USA, trying to maximize civilian casualties would really put that moral equivocation in perspective. The Palestinians shelter the very people who would deny them any shade or shape of peace, and are content to be the pawns of rutheless dictators who cannot achieve victory over the region's only democracy through any means. That is the moral fiber of the Palestinian people, such as they are. They live that way by choice. The idea of forcing them to choose different, well isn't that impossible?

DgtlCalm: Basically your whole post way saying they shouldn't respond because the logic your using is they should continue to take random rocket attacks from Hamas while asking Hamas in a nice way to stop. You said police action at one point in your post. Police should only be used in your country, when another country attacks you...you use the millitary. If hamas stopped attacking Israel would not have to respond.

You missed my point entirely.

I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza with stated objectives and outcomes and full transparency to the international community.

I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader why I would like to see this.

Phil Moskowitz: I'm sure Israel isn't instigating a campaign of slow genocide. I mean, there's no evidence, right?

The map is dishonest as it lists lands that "jews controlled" as "Jewish Land" and land the jews didn't control as "Palestinian Land" rather than the proper term. The Palestinians didn't own much of the current area either. Even less after Egypt, Syria, and Jordan invaded and took a good bit of it.

The four rockets that hit Beersheba this week were filled with metal balls that can scatter up to 100 meters from the impact site, officials said

I hope they checked those balls for lead content... cos that shiat's hazardous. You go scattering that stuff all over schools, homes and hospitals and someone's gonna get sick.

Danielsan: But I heard on fark.com that the missiles were home made rockets made out of soup cans. Surely this article is incorrect.

Well, the Qassams just about are. The Katushas, Chinese versions and locally modified variants are slightly higher tech, barely.

snuff3r: Cubist Robot Party: For everyone who plays the "both sides are the same" card.

"Made in China" clusterbombsTM?

Cluster bombs = individual explosives scattered by the initial explosion, think of the missile as a mechanism by which mines are scattered, which subsequently explode. Banned weaponry in most places because if the individual detonators are screwed up, the bits literally become mines and leave around things that can explode on a civilian months later.

Metal balls packed around the primary explosive? That's called "shrapnel" and most every bomb has it in one form or another, either built into the rocket or from whatever's nearby when the explosive goes off. Nothing that's going to accidentally booby-trap anyone half a year later, finding one of these after the explosion is significantly less dangerous than finding one of those old arrowheads in a random creek -- less sharp, you see.

Short answer: No, not even slightly. And the argument that having shrapnel makes a rocket special is stupid, most of them do.

TwistedFark: I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza with stated objectives and outcomes and full transparency to the international community.


That is retarded. Pretty close to to full retard.

Full transparency, in a military campaign?

Phil Moskowitz

How many Jews have been killed in the past SEVEN YEARS?! 23 from rockets and mortars. Compare that to the palestinians deaths.

I was at this bar in my town, and I live in Fayetteville NC right next to Fort Bragg. And this guy who must of been like 170 pounds was flirting with some girl. Well she was there with her boyfriend so of course gave him the cold shoulder. Well he goes off (he was pretty drunk) calls her a biatch and starts talking shiat to her 6'4 (I'm 6'2 and he was taller to me) bearded boyfriend. And actually swings at the guy.

Well this guy responds to this random stupid attack with what he was taught to do. Ends up flipping this dude and dislocating his shoulder and the guys lip gets busted when he falls. Well after cops show up whispers start going around that big mean with his gf was special forces.

The point of all that...
Nothing really lol, but every time Hamas does something stupid they catch it 10 fold. Maybe you would think they would try a new idea over these last 23 years?

I mean if violence isn't working for them...maybe there's some other magical path that could lead to Israel leaving Gaza alone and them living in if not peace at least not war.

Phil Herup: TwistedFark: I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza with stated objectives and outcomes and full transparency to the international community.


That is retarded. Pretty close to to full retard.

Full transparency, in a military campaign?

The first rule of launching a military campaign is to know how to end it.

So, please tell us how Israel is going to end this current "campaign". If you can't, or to be more specific they can't (and they haven't stated how yet), then is it a military campaign at all?

Phil Herup: TwistedFark: I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza with stated objectives and outcomes and full transparency to the international community.


That is retarded. Pretty close to to full retard.

Full transparency, in a military campaign?

Why is a military campaign necessary?

It makes as much sense as invading a country to keep people from flying planes into buildings.

DgtlCalm

Thanks for your uninformed anecdote. It's good to know dipshiats in NC have opinions.

TwistedFark

I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza

Well its official, as of a few moments ago a top leader Hamas was just killed in a airstrike. I think Israel has a pretty concise and clear plan of what there doing.

TwistedFark:
I said that Israel should have a concise and clear plan for the execution of force in Gaza with stated objectives and outcomes and full transparency to the international community.


And I want a pony that eats rainbows and shiats gold.

//I may not be a military guy, but even I know that the words "clear" and "concise" apply to an active militarty action exactly 0% of the time. Good luck with that.
//That it could be done better would be a good point if it hadn't been what the entire rest fo the world has been telling everyone in the region for the last 50 years.