In other news, the West Bank and Israel seem to be able to coexist without killing each other. Hmmm?

Proposed peace treaty? Do you mean a two day cease fire? Cause those are entirely different things, subby.

Farfur must be avenged.



/hot like an IDF girl.

Was this before or after Hamas started rocketing them again, subby?

Hamas deserve everything they get.

Israel has used the US presidential transition period to do whatever the fark they like. But they don't have a clue how to actually 'win'.

Dumbasses. The lot of them.

opiumpoopy Hamas deserve everything they get.

Israel has used the US presidential transition period to do whatever the fark they like. But they don't have a clue how to actually 'win'.

Dumbasses. The lot of them.


Neither side in the conflict really seems to want peace. Maybe one day they will stop fighting, but I'm not holding my breath.

They must have lied about cake.

Scrophulous Barking Duck: Maybe one day they will stop fighting, but I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe one day they will stop fighting, but I don't care.

The West Bank has already been carved up into a structure of Ghettos much like those that existed in Warsaw. Hmmmm.

Darconix: It's not Israel's responsibility to "show restraint" with these savages. Restraint only results in more dead civilians who are daily seeking cover from Palestinian rocket attacks. Fark the Palestinians. Let them starve if need be.

Wouldn't the palistinians just claim the rockets are revenge for years of abuse by the Israel government?

Also, couldn't the argument also be made against the Us for attacks in Iraq/other parts of the world?

An eye for an eye never really turns out good, you know?

I_C_Weener: In other news, the West Bank and Israel seem to be able to coexist without killing each other

Actually there have been riots in Hebron lately, but yes it has generally been quieter. No missiles.

Gaza is much smaller and more isolated internationally.

Give it to them. (new window)

How about this:

Hamas FIRST promises to never again fire a rocket into Israel, and if some rogue element does so from their side of the fence, they agree to immediately compensate Israel $50,000 for every rocket fired, plus $1,000,000 to the family of anyone killed by that rocket fire.

Then, Israel agrees to pull back and immediately cease all hostilities. Hamas would then have 48 hours to enforce the pact, after which, they assume the above responsibility.

Scrophulous Barking Duck: Neither side in the conflict really seems to want peace. Maybe one day they will stop fighting, but I'm not holding my breath.

Hamas is in a near impossible position. If they do more then urge restraint to the people building and firing the rockets, they become "allies of Israel" to the hardliners and become the enemy. Israel knows this.

Israel is behaving in a monstrous way, waging war as an electioneering ploy. Why has almost every single Israeli leader denounced the settlers and the religious hardliners after leaving office? Because THEY are the true major obstacle to peace. They build their houses on other people's land, reroute their water, and annex their fields... then act outraged when they provoke a response.

Also, will someone please tell me how the fark police stations and prisons are considered legitimate military targets?

The Israeli Defense Minister has called this "war to the bitter end," which I think means they are going to wipe the Palestinian territories off the map.

Israel has done a good job over the years of prolonging the conflict, just as good if not a better job than any Palestinian organization.

From TFA : White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said President Bush had spoken this morning to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, who reassured Bush that Israel was targeting Hamas operatives and trying to avoid civilian casualties.

Having never flown a bomber jet, I don't imagine you get a very good view of the people you're dropping munitions on.

Does Israel have fancy new technology that allows them to scan people's DNA from the air and determine if they have "terrorist" genes?

Why does this sound like Gilbert Gottfried anyone's version of The Aristocrats?

Antimatter: An eye for an eye never really turns out good, you know?

So, Israel should just ignore the rockets, and let them keep coming forever?

Occam's Nailfile: Hamas FIRST promises to never again fire a rocket into Israel, and if some rogue element does so from their side of the fence, they agree to immediately compensate Israel $50,000 for every rocket fired, plus $1,000,000 to the family of anyone killed by that rocket fire.

That's a retarded arrangement, and you should feel stupid for suggesting it.

TREATY. OF. VERSAILLES. Learn your goddamn history, you ignorant farkwit.

Occam's Nailfile: Hamas FIRST promises to never again fire a rocket into Israel, and if some rogue element does so from their side of the fence, they agree to immediately compensate Israel $50,000 for every rocket fired, plus $1,000,000 to the family of anyone killed by that rocket fire.

Well, in theory, public prosecution followed by imprisonment/death, plus compensation to victims, should suffice.

Of course, this presumes that the territorial situation is satisfactory as it stands now, which is kinda what the whole conflict is over in the first place, no?

jakomo002: From TFA : White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said President Bush had spoken this morning to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, who reassured Bush that Israel was targeting Hamas operatives and trying to avoid civilian casualties.

Having never flown a bomber jet, I don't imagine you get a very good view of the people you're dropping munitions on.

Does Israel have fancy new technology that allows them to scan people's DNA from the air and determine if they have "terrorist" genes?

It is called the MOSSAD.

Occam's Nailfile

So, Israel should just ignore the rockets, and let them keep coming forever?

So the Palestinians should just ignore the fact they're second-class subjects of the Israelis, and let them keep it that way forever?

Occam's Nailfile
So, Israel should just ignore the rockets, and let them keep coming forever?

YES, because Israel's reaction to the rockets brings more rockets! When Palestinians are allowed to have free movement and a functioning economy, they won't attack Israel because the young men will be too farking busy making money and buying cars to impress women!

Appropriate, since Hamas - or for that matter Fatah - would treat any peace treaty or cease fire like toilet paper anyway.

Bored Horde: That's a retarded arrangement, and you should feel stupid for suggesting it.

First of all, you are a rude prick.

Second, if Hamas will not accept responsibility to stop the attacks, this conflict will never end, unless Israel wipes them from the face of the earth. Would you prefer those alternatives, you jackass?

subby: Israel takes proposed peace treaty, sets it on fire, shovels manure onto the ashes, burns the ashes and manure pile, douses it with acid, buries the remains with a bomb, and explodes it

In diplo-speak, that means "Maybe".

There's only one solution to this situation. Invent a time machine, and show the 1948 Jews the situation as it stands.

anyone starting to get the feeling this is the start of the War that will drive us into the stone age?

Facetious_Speciest: Occam's Nailfile

So, Israel should just ignore the rockets, and let them keep coming forever?

So the Palestinians should just ignore the fact they're second-class subjects of the Israelis, and let them keep it that way forever?

No. But before Israel should be expected to loosen security, first the rockets have to stop. There are diplomatic ways for the Palestinians to get an improved position, but they are inviting a hellstorm with each rocket they shoot.

Mentat: subby: Israel takes proposed peace treaty, sets it on fire, shovels manure onto the ashes, burns the ashes and manure pile, douses it with acid, buries the remains with a bomb, and explodes it

In diplo-speak, that means "Maybe".

You've got it backwards. If a diplomat reacts to a proposed treaty with "Maybe", that means that his government sets it on fire, puts the fire out with shiat, sets the shiat on fire, puts the fire out with jizz, and stuffs the whole mess by the handful up your mother.

If, on the other hand, the diplomat responds with "We will take this proposal under advisement", then they merely mean to sign it and then sodomize you with it.

Zagloba: Of course, this presumes that the territorial situation is satisfactory as it stands now, which is kinda what the whole conflict is over in the first place, no?

It's a little bigger than that.

Occam's Nailfile: How about this:

Hamas FIRST promises to never again fire a rocket into Israel, and if some rogue element does so from their side of the fence, they agree to immediately compensate Israel $50,000 for every rocket fired, plus $1,000,000 to the family of anyone killed by that rocket fire.

Then, Israel agrees to pull back and immediately cease all hostilities. Hamas would then have 48 hours to enforce the pact, after which, they assume the above responsibility.

Considering these are home made rockets, and israel would never give Hamas the tools they would need to stop every extremist, this doesn't sound workable.

What about the innocents caught in the corssfire of Israel revenge attacks? What about guarantees that Israel sticks to their sides of the agreement?

Occam's Nailfile

No. But before Israel should be expected to loosen security, first the rockets have to stop.

The rockets won't stop until the Palestinians get something better than their current situation. Marginalising the majority of a people just makes more recruits for fighting the man.

Antimatter: Wouldn't the palistinians just claim the rockets are revenge for years of abuse by the Israel government?

Also, couldn't the argument also be made against the Us for attacks in Iraq/other parts of the world?

An eye for an eye never really turns out good, you know?

Dude, it's Darconix. He just likes it when a lot of people die.

Senescent Dawn: There's only one solution to this situation. Invent a time machine, and show the 1948 Jews the situation as it stands.

Integration.

They want to claim to be a western secular democracy, then they should act like western secular democracies.

Facetious_Speciest: The rockets won't stop until the Palestinians get something better than their current situation.

Then they will be blown to hell. Simple as that. If you keep shooting spitballs at the class bully, eventually, he will beat the crap out of you. Whether or not the bully deserves the spitballs, it's not a very wise course of action.

Darconix: But all I've seen suggests that they'd a small number of terrorists continue to wage war on Israel and whine when they get their asses kicked thousands of innocent civilians die in retaliation.

Sorry. Pet peave.

Israel's response to the rocket attacks has been counterproductive, at best. Even if bombing Hamas temporarily stops rocket attacks, what do they think the sons of every Palestinian killed in the air strikes will do when they're older? Israel is digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole with their short-term thinking.

And I second what someone else asked earlier. Why target police stations and prisons?

Also from TFA : Since Israel withdrew its soldiers and settlements from Gaza in 2005, rockets launched from the strip into Israel have killed 13 civilians, according to the Israeli government.

To review: In the last 3 years, 13 Israelis have lost their lives to rocket fire from Gaza.

Therefore, Gaza must be starved, choked and bombed. Civilian casualties alone reaching 80 already.

80 dead in 5 days VS 13 dead in 1095 days

I am constantly astounded by people who can disconnect their brain long enough to see Israel as the victim here.

DarnoKonrad

Integration.

They want to claim to be a western secular democracy, then they should act like western secular democracies.

"If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished." - Olmert

The IRA situation was dissolved through talking, not through violence. You don't quell anger by killing the parents or children of the people you need to pacify.

Recognise that Hamas was democratically elected and actually talk to them. Once you're talking to them and the palastinians think their views are actually being considered for once, then you can make moves towards real peace. As long as you see them as an enemy that has to be fought, they will remain so until you wipe out any people who could support them.

1.5million is a lot of bodies to bury.

1) The Palestinians elected Hamas as their representatives. Therefore, the acts of Hamas are no longer the acts of a rogue, non-state actor. Instead, it is the actions of the elected representatives of the Palestinian people. There is no longer any such thing as "collective punishment" -- it's merely the Palestinian people unfortunately reaping what Hamas has sowed. I wonder if they are smart enough to look to the West Bank and see how Israel isn't continually dropping bombs on that part of their territory.

2) Only one side indoctrinates their children with hate towards the other side -- the Palestinians. From cradle to grave, they are taught to hate the Jews. Horrible.

jakomo002: Also from TFA : Since Israel withdrew its soldiers and settlements from Gaza in 2005, rockets launched from the strip into Israel have killed 13 civilians, according to the Israeli government.

To review: In the last 3 years, 13 Israelis have lost their lives to rocket fire from Gaza.

Therefore, Gaza must be starved, choked and bombed. Civilian casualties alone reaching 80 already.

80 dead in 5 days VS 13 dead in 1095 days

I am constantly astounded by people who can disconnect their brain long enough to see Israel as the victim here.

So, because their aim sucks, they shouldn't be retaliated against?

Facetious_Speciest: "If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished." - Olmert

Aren't you glad that we don't have to believe Ehud's propaganda?

As long as there are very strong, toothy protections from the tyranny of the majority in the law, and a functioning court system and economy, a one-state solution would be perfectly fine.

(Of course, since at this point both sides seem to favor a two-state solution, who are we to butt in and mandate otherwise?)

Shaggy_C: It's a little bigger than that.

When did a country called "Palestine" exist that was internationally recognized? I think you mean "Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon"

Darconix: What part of democratically electing a terrorist group makes you believe that there is only a "small number" of Palestinians who support attacks on Israel?

There are no innocent "civilian" Palestinians. They put Hamas in power to carry out armed attacks on Israel. They brought this on themselves, and deserve whatever they get.

Al Qaeda-like typing detected.

Darconix: There are no innocent "civilian" Palestinians. They put Hamas in power to carry out armed attacks on Israel. They brought this on themselves, and deserve whatever they get.

I don't think I deserve to die in a terrorist attack in retaliation for Bush's armed attacks on Iraq. I didn't bring it upon myself. I voted for Kodos.

KaponoFor3: 2) Only one side indoctrinates their children with hate towards the other side -- the Palestinians. From cradle to grave, they are taught to hate the Jews. Horrible.

From cradle to grave, Jewish Israelis are taught to fear Arabs. Ask Yoda what fear leads to.