Wasn't there a photo of them kissing though?

Is this the same broad?

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Wasn't there a photo of them kissing though?

Is this the same broad?

I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them.

Douchebags, all of 'em.

The issue about McCain being LITERALLY in bed with lobbyists wasn't as interesting, or as damning, as the evidence that he was FIGURATIVELY in bed with lobbyists.

Stopheles: The issue about McCain being LITERALLY in bed with lobbyists wasn't as interesting, or as damning, as the evidence that he was FIGURATIVELY in bed with lobbyists.

Doesn't Cindy McCain have mob connections? So couldn't it besaid that he's in bed with the mob?

Makes you wonder why she didn't bring this up during the campaign?

PizzaJedi81: Doesn't Cindy McCain have mob connections? So couldn't it besaid that he's in bed with the mob?

Giggity

LosinMySenses: Makes you wonder why she didn't bring this up during the campaign?

You're screwed either way, aren't you? If you challenge it and discredit it, you win. However, the story sticks around the 24 hour news cycle. That coupled with the fact that it wouldn't play out before the election anyway leads people to just let it blow over and deal with it afterward.

If you cchallenge it and it turns out to be true, you look like an ass.

Bottom line... shenanigans on NYTimes.

TwistedFark
I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

. . . destroyed the heart and soul of [her] professional identity and sense of personal self-worth.

You're farking lobbyist sweetheart. Your professional identity and sense of personal self-worth has always been for sale.

K street is the biggest prostitution ring in the world.

MFL: no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations

That's the problem with this law suit. There were no accusations. They were friends, they did the stuff that senators and lobbyists do -- which contradicts the Straight Talk ^TM narrative.

That's why there was a story. They never said he was banging her -- which is the strawman being built by the Right.

But when all you got is a persecution complex after screwing up the country -- why not run with it?

The Republican Party is turning into a surrogate for failed ambitions, loveless parents, self pity, and delusions of unrequited grandeur.

MFL: TwistedFark
I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

If memory serves me correctly, Monica Lewinsky denied she had an affair with Clinton too.

DarnoKonrad: MFL: no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations

That's the problem with this law suit. There were no accusations. They were friends, they did the stuff that senators and lobbyists do -- which contradicts the Straight Talk TM narrative.

That's why there was a story. They never said he was banging her -- which is the strawman being built by the Right.

But when all you got is a persecution complex after screwing up the country -- why not run with it?

The Republican Party is turning into a surrogate for failed ambitions, loveless parents, self pity, and delusions of unrequited grandeur.

I'm not a huge fan of Republicans, but I completely disagree with your synopsis of the issue here. There was certainly more than a fair bit of character assassination going on here, compounded by the fact that the investigative journalism was crap and the story was rushed to press because Matt Drudge had an airport bathroom sized hard-on for this story.

I strongly believe that media, especially corporate media need to have their feet held to the fire when they are irresponsible asses and that this should be applied across the board regardless of the political left/right spin.

MFL: I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

Your time line is off. This story broke in early winter of 2007 a full 2-3 months before John McCain clinched the Republican nomination. Hence why NRO and Drudge were so hot under the collar for this "scandal" - it would have given them a chance to eliminate John "RHINO" McCain from the running.

But yeah, the NY Times really hates Republicans. Or something.

TwistedFark But yeah, the NY Times really hates Republicans. Or something.

I've got two words for ya...John Edwards.

LosinMySenses If memory serves me correctly, Monica Lewinsky denied she had an affair with Clinton too.

What does that have to do with anything?

MFL: LosinMySenses If memory serves me correctly, Monica Lewinsky denied she had an affair with Clinton too.

What does that have to do with anything?

Denial gets you as far as say...ducking a shoe being thrown at you.

Lets look at denials of late: Blago is denying he did anything wrong, should we believe him? Palin denied she did wrong in her role with Troopergate, should we believe her?

Point is, you can deny the sun is shining don't mean it's not true.

political opinions aside, i think most could agree that NY Times deserves a FAIL tag. between this, them printing the paris official's fake letter without even validating it as a hoax, and the other misinformation they often print, it's obvious that journalistic integrity there is dead.

TwistedFark: but I completely disagree with your synopsis of the issue here.

Anybody got a link to the original story?

DarnoKonrad: TwistedFark: but I completely disagree with your synopsis of the issue here.

Anybody got a link to the original story?


February 21, 2008

The Long Run

For McCain, Self-Confidence on Ethics Poses Its Own Risk
By JIM RUTENBERG, MARILYN W. THOMPSON, DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and STEPHEN LABATON



By then, according to two former McCain associates, some of the senator's advisers had grown so concerned that the relationship had become romantic that they took steps to intervene.


That's the paragraph this is all about. The rest of the article is a solid piece about McCain's lobbyist connections -- which wouldn't have been reported on if McCain himself hadn't made lobbying a central tenant to his campaigns.

DarnoKonrad: That's the paragraph this is all about. The rest of the article is a solid piece about McCain's lobbyist connections -- which wouldn't have been reported on if McCain himself hadn't made lobbying a central tenant to his campaigns.

I think that's enough, don't you?

I could write a full length article about nearly anyone, and then put an errant single line at the bottom that says, "Oh and according to aides, he likes to dress up as Hitler and fark puppies in the ass."

I'd still expect to get called out/sued for that.

LosinMySenses: Lets look at denials of late: Blago is denying he did anything wrong, should we believe him? Palin denied she did wrong in her role with Troopergate, should we believe her?

Yes and No, or No and Yes. We should believe the one who is part of my party and not believe the one that is part of your party because my party is right and yours is a big poopy head.

/Am I doing it right?

Times is in a world of hurt over this. There really was never any evidence pointing to an affair.

It was purely a political move by the times and now they owe that lady some cash...

TwistedFark: I could write a full length article about nearly anyone, and then put an errant single line at the bottom that says, "Oh and according to aides, he likes to dress up as Hitler and fark puppies in the ass."

I'd still expect to get called out/sued for that.

Read the NYT verbiage again:

By then, according to two former McCain associates, some of the senator's advisers had grown so concerned that the relationship had become romantic that they took steps to intervene.

Your example should be revised to read:

"Oh and according to aides, some of them were concerned that he may like to dress up as Hitler and fark puppies in the ass."

If you are the NYT, you simply re-call the aides who you paraphrased and show that they indeed at one time believed this may be the case.

TwistedFark: I think that's enough, don't you?

I could write a full length article about nearly anyone, and then put an errant single line at the bottom that says, "Oh and according to aides, he likes to dress up as Hitler and fark puppies in the ass."

I'd still expect to get called out/sued for that.

Google the story. NYT has links Fark don't like.

Not really no. I don't think the aids are lying. And further, the article goes on to say that there was no romantic relationship -- but that in-fact -- they did sideline the lady to mitigate an appearance of impropriety.

To me it looks like much ado about nothing. It doesn't even imply a relationship -- it emphatically states the opposite.

The article isn't even about the Iseman.

If McCain and Iseman are victims of anything -- it's our culture that finds any mention of sexuality -- in context or not -- to be salacious.

But there's certainly no legal case to be made -- nor much a media persecution narrative.

And I'm not fan of corporate media either, but this isn't the usual tripe about the reemergence gourmet cheese sandwiches that are usually shilled as news these days.

It's a legitimate story about McCain's own self promoted narrative.

MFL: TwistedFark
I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

This.

It's a pattern:

Ra^thergate. By the way, Rather still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Courage isn't just about fighting the (Republican) power, Danny. Sometimes it is knowing that a story is just too good to be true, and having the balls to say "no", even if it means your team will lose.

The release of the Jack and Jeri Ryan's sealed custody records at the behest of the Chicago Tribune, but against the wishes of both parents and a ruling that it wouldn't be in the best interests of the child in question. That caused Republican Jack Ryan to bow out of the race, making for an (easy, or easier) Obama senate victory.

The LA Times waiting until just 5 days before the election to print allegations of sexual abuse by Republican candidate Arnold Schwartzenegger, despite them knowing about it for weeks.

xtragrind: Times is in a world of hurt over this. There really was never any evidence pointing to an affair.

It was purely a political move by the times and now they owe that lady some cash...

TwistedFark: Your time line is off. This story broke in early winter of 2007 a full 2-3 months before John McCain clinched the Republican nomination. Hence why NRO and Drudge were so hot under the collar for this "scandal" - it would have given them a chance to eliminate John "RHINO" McCain from the running.

Actually, at the time of the story breaking, John McCain had all but clinched the nomination, and Romney had dropped his bid.

Sure, there were some die hards on the GOP side still screaming to sink McCain, but the nomination was his to lose.

Skleenar: "Oh and according to aides, some of them were concerned that he may like to dress up as Hitler and fark puppies in the ass."

THAT would also be a legitimate story -- assuming the concern was genuine.

IF the argument is that the aids had ulterior motives in expressing this concern -- or more correctly, lied to the NYT about having these concerns to libel McCain or Iseman -- that's different. That would be wrong. But the article doesn't exude that kind of dynamic. The Iseman snippet is at the end of the article and meant to cap off a narrative of long term lobbyist associations -- that have historically caused McCain problems.

dittybopper: It's a pattern:

Rathergate. By the way, Rather still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Courage isn't just about fighting the (Republican) power, Danny. Sometimes it is knowing that a story is just too good to be true, and having the balls to say "no", even if it means your team will lose.

The release of the Jack and Jeri Ryan's sealed custody records at the behest of the Chicago Tribune, but against the wishes of both parents and a ruling that it wouldn't be in the best interests of the child in question. That caused Republican Jack Ryan to bow out of the race, making for an (easy, or easier) Obama senate victory.

The LA Times waiting until just 5 days before the election to print allegations of sexual abuse by Republican candidate Arnold Schwartzenegger, despite them knowing about it for weeks.



You got the makings of a scoop right there. I'm all over it!

DarnoKonrad: IF the argument is that the aids had ulterior motives in expressing this concern -- or more correctly, lied to the NYT about having these concerns to libel McCain or Iseman -- that's different. That would be wrong. But the article doesn't exude that kind of dynamic. The Iseman snippet is at the end of the article and meant to cap off a narrative of long term lobbyist associations -- that have historically caused McCain problems.

The line in the Iseman story was characterizing how close she (as a lobbyist) and McCain were.

So close that some in his camp felt there was an inappropriate relationship.

That is disturbing to me as a voter and a taxpayer. And, I would say, a valid qualifying point to add in a story if it is indeed truthfully backed up by statements from McCain advisers.

dittybopper: MFL: TwistedFark
I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

This.

It's a pattern:

Rathergate. By the way, Rather still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Courage isn't just about fighting the (Republican) power, Danny. Sometimes it is knowing that a story is just too good to be true, and having the balls to say "no", even if it means your team will lose.

The release of the Jack and Jeri Ryan's sealed custody records at the behest of the Chicago Tribune, but against the wishes of both parents and a ruling that it wouldn't be in the best interests of the child in question. That caused Republican Jack Ryan to bow out of the race, making for an (easy, or easier) Obama senate victory.

The LA Times waiting until just 5 days before the election to print allegations of sexual abuse by Republican candidate Arnold Schwartzenegger, despite them knowing about it for weeks.

Nonsense.

Kitty Dukakis is mentally ill. Michel Dukakis released a murderer, Clinton killed Vince Foster, Al Gore invented the internet, John Kerry didn't deserve his metals, Obama doesn't where a flag pin. . . . . .


All of these things (and far more) were invented by Republican Operatives -- the tactic was perfected by Lee Atwater and his understudy Karl Rove.

Those are real documented and clearly false media manipulations that were WIDELY covered -- all of which ended up in the debates -- and may have destroyed the respective candidates.

The media has a long and documented history of shilling GOP propaganda that had been thought up in think tanks.

The Liberal Media is a rhetorical shift to divert attention from the media channels that were and are used to influence the electorate. It's very clever.

And that's not the bizarre media conspiracy theories espoused by the Right. I'm simply stating that the Right has been *far* more effective at using the media as a tool.

DarnoKonrad: . . . destroyed the heart and soul of [her] professional identity and sense of personal self-worth.

You're farking lobbyist sweetheart. Your professional identity and sense of personal self-worth has always been for sale.

K street is the biggest prostitution ring in the world.



Apparently you've never been to St. Pauli.

/Note the buses.

NYTimes, Like Dan Rather in corporate form.

DarnoKonrad
That's why there was a story. They never said he was banging her -- which is the strawman being built by the Right.

Umm...WTF have you been smoking this morning?

It was a front page farking story that insinuated he had a romantic fling with a lobbyist. It was entirely based on rumors. but that was enough to put it on the front farking page during an election primary. The farking left wing blogs went nuts over this for weeks.

The John Edwards story was much juicier and had truth to it...but they decided to sit on it until he wasn't a factor in the race anymore. Why? He's got a (D) by his name.

But that's what we've come to expect from the joke that NY Times has become. They don't follow an agenda, they attempt to set the agenda.

DarnoKonrad: Kitty Dukakis is mentally ill. Michel Dukakis released a murderer, Clinton killed Vince Foster, Al Gore invented the internet, John Kerry didn't deserve his metals, Obama doesn't where a flag pin. . . . . .


All of these things (and far more) were invented by Republican Operatives -- the tactic was perfected by Lee Atwater and his understudy Karl Rove.

The most controversial criticism against Dukakis involved his support for a prison furlough program. During his first term as Governor, he had vetoed a bill that would have stopped furloughs for first-degree murderers.[8] During his second term, that program resulted in the release of convicted murderer William "Willie" Horton[9], who committed a rape and assault in Maryland after being furloughed. Al Gore was the first candidate to publicly raise the furlough issue and asked about "weekend passes for convicted criminals" in a debate held in New York prior to the Democratic primary in that state, although Gore never mentioned Horton by name or that he had broken into a house, raped a woman, and beaten her husband.

dittybopper: MFL: TwistedFark
I actually believe this woman. There has been no credible evidence shown that supports any of these accusations, and it does indeed look like that the Times jumped the gun because they were afraid their buddies at Drudge and NRO were going to scoop them. a Republican might become President again.

This.

It's a pattern:

Rathergate. By the way, Rather still doesn't think he did anything wrong. Courage isn't just about fighting the (Republican) power, Danny. Sometimes it is knowing that a story is just too good to be true, and having the balls to say "no", even if it means your team will lose.

The release of the Jack and Jeri Ryan's sealed custody records at the behest of the Chicago Tribune, but against the wishes of both parents and a ruling that it wouldn't be in the best interests of the child in question. That caused Republican Jack Ryan to bow out of the race, making for an (easy, or easier) Obama senate victory.

The LA Times waiting until just 5 days before the election to print allegations of sexual abuse by Republican candidate Arnold Schwartzenegger, despite them knowing about it for weeks.

NY Times attempting to not mention Edwards' affair at all. If they had blown the whistle when they found out about it during the early primaries, Hillary probably would have won.

They also refused to even mention the Wright and Ayers connections until a year or so had passed since the revelations had come to light. Even though, they did so reluctantly and in a small Saturday column. Is it any wonder that they are going under? They need to remember that they are to report the news, not make it or pretend it doesn't exist when it isn't convenient for them.

Dan Rather has been lying and making shiat up for decades. Only with the Internet community what it is, was he finally shamed to retirement. I hope that this will always be his legacy.

MFL: It was a front page farking story that insinuated he had a romantic fling with a lobbyist. It was entirely based on rumors. but that was enough to put it on the front farking page during an election primary. The farking left wing blogs went nuts over this for weeks.

That's the article MFL. You might try reading it -- not parrot a world view where you're at the mercy of a cabal of Liberal Media conspirators. Good lord man turn off the AM radio. It's rotting your brain.

Google it and read it.


February 21, 2008

The Long Run

For McCain, Self-Confidence on Ethics Poses Its Own Risk
By JIM RUTENBERG, MARILYN W. THOMPSON, DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK and STEPHEN LABATON

DarnoKonrad: All of these things (and far more) were invented by Republican Operatives -- the tactic was perfected by Lee Atwater and his understudy Karl Rove.

Do you honestly believe that? Dirty politics were not invented solely by Republicans or Rove. Ever since politics began there has been mudslinging and shady tactics. e.g. Jefferson was pretty harsh against Adams and even employed another "journalist" to publish insults for him. And there are many examples of non-repubs that pre-date that as well.

And that's not the bizarre media conspiracy theories espoused by the Right. I'm simply stating that the Right has been *far* more effective at using the media as a tool.

Hillary, is that you with your vast right wing conspiracy theories again?

You are only half right - both the Repubs AND the Dems are very effective at using the media as a tool and the media is very effective as using the guise of providing unbiased "news" as a tool to sway public opinion.



/also, it doesn't matter if mccain really had an affair or not just whether it can be proven or if ny times had verifiable sources. we all know oj was guilty but criminally he was acquitted - if you print that he murdered those two people you'd be begging for a suit.

atlanta_ufo: The most controversial criticism against Dukakis involved his support for a prison furlough program. During his first term as Governor, he had vetoed a bill that would have stopped furloughs for first-degree murderers.[8] During his second term, that program resulted in the release of convicted murderer William "Willie" Horton[9], who committed a rape and assault in Maryland after being furloughed. Al Gore was the first candidate to publicly raise the furlough issue and asked about "weekend passes for convicted criminals" in a debate held in New York prior to the Democratic primary in that state, although Gore never mentioned Horton by name or that he had broken into a house, raped a woman, and beaten her husband.

Lee Atwater personality apologized to Dukakis *AND* Willy Horton for what he did before he died.

Did you know that?

He was ashamed for what he did to Dukakis in helping Bush win.

That's one soul of the Republican Party -- redeemed by apologizing to a murderer for using his crime and race to smear Dukakis.

uncdwm: Dirty politics were not invented solely by Republicans or Rove.

Did I say that? No. I said the Liberal Media is a rhetorical shift designed to obfuscate and that Republicans have been far better at using the media to propagate their message because of that.

And the notion that media favors Democrats is delusional.

TwistedFark: I'd still expect to get called out/sued for that.

Why, you think it's not newsworthy that a politician's aides were so perplexed by their boss's behavior that they weren't sure what to think about his involvement with a lobbyist?

Assuming the sources hold up and say "we weren't sure whether the relationship was business or personal," this seems like truthful reporting to me. The story is that McCain's behavior was so erratic that even his aides weren't sure what to make of it.

dittybopper: Rathergate. By the way, Rather still doesn't think he did anything wrong.

By the way, conservatives still point to that as an example of "people power," despite that the initial sources of the whole "fake memo" story were Republican insiders. It doesn't help that CBS considered hiring Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter to dig dirt on Rather.

MFL: DarnoKonrad
That's why there was a story. They never said he was banging her -- which is the strawman being built by the Right.

Umm...WTF have you been smoking this morning?

It was a front page farking story that insinuated he had a romantic fling with a lobbyist. It was entirely based on rumors.

Read the story. Because it's clear that you haven't.

DarnoKonrad: atlanta_ufo: The most controversial criticism against Dukakis involved his support for a prison furlough program. During his first term as Governor, he had vetoed a bill that would have stopped furloughs for first-degree murderers.[8] During his second term, that program resulted in the release of convicted murderer William "Willie" Horton[9], who committed a rape and assault in Maryland after being furloughed. Al Gore was the first candidate to publicly raise the furlough issue and asked about "weekend passes for convicted criminals" in a debate held in New York prior to the Democratic primary in that state, although Gore never mentioned Horton by name or that he had broken into a house, raped a woman, and beaten her husband.

Lee Atwater personality apologized to Dukakis *AND* Willy Horton for what he did before he died.

Did you know that?

He was ashamed for what he did to Dukakis in helping Bush win.

That's one soul of the Republican Party -- redeemed by apologizing to a murderer for using his crime and race to smear Dukakis.

Yeah, just was posting that the issue was originally brought up in the dem primary. Both sides pound their own party members in the primaries, then they pound the other candidate in the Presidential race, and then the other side pounds whoever becomes President.

DarnoKonrad: uncdwm: Dirty politics were not invented solely by Republicans or Rove.

Did I say that? No. I said the Liberal Media is a rhetorical shift designed to obfuscate and that Republicans have been far better at using the media to propagate their message because of that.

And the notion that media favors Democrats is delusional.

And did I say that? No.

You did say that "all of these things (and far more) were invented by Republican Operatives" and they were perfected by Atwater and Rove. You could also list liberal operatives that have introduced or perfected the same tactics - their existence aren't mutually exclusive.

I never said the media favors Democrats I said the media is manipulated by both parties and the media themselves manipulates based on their own agenda. Saying the media favors the left OR right is an oversimplification and is delusional. But recently the "media" has failed in objectively covering obama and hiding the "thrill up their leg" and adoration for him.

/wasn't a mccain supporter. just don't understand why right wingers OR liberals claim the other party is evil manipulative scum but then are unable to identify that their party is as well.

atlanta_ufo: Yeah, just was posting that the issue was originally brought up in the dem primary. Both sides pound their own party members in the primaries, then they pound the other candidate in the Presidential race, and then the other side pounds whoever becomes President.

Sorry about that, I hate to browbeat and moralize, but there is a difference between legitimate criticism -- even overtly political criticism over a furlough program -- and using fear and race to imply a candidate will get you raped and murdered. It's a tactic that I think is waning in effectiveness anyway.

uncdwm: But recently the "media" has failed in objectively covering obama and hiding the "thrill up their leg" and adoration for him.

My flag pin disagrees with you.

I'm not saying anything about bias. I'm talking about who uses the media to the most effect -- in the last 30 years, that has been Republicans. This has been the Reagan Era.

The next 30 years may well be different.

The Media just wants to make a buck -- and talk of Objectivity died when the network monopolies retired with Konkite and Morrow.

The 1st Amendment says nothing about objectivity. We are now just reverting to a more diversified media before TeeVee distorted our notion of what the media should be.

A trusted talking head was an aberration -- not the norm. And now it's gone for good.

Objectivity rests with you. Not with the talking head trying to sell you a product called "news".

DarnoKonrad: atlanta_ufo: Yeah, just was posting that the issue was originally brought up in the dem primary. Both sides pound their own party members in the primaries, then they pound the other candidate in the Presidential race, and then the other side pounds whoever becomes President.

Sorry about that, I hate to browbeat and moralize, but there is a difference between legitimate criticism -- even overtly political criticism over a furlough program -- and using fear and race to imply a candidate will get you raped and murdered. It's a tactic that I think is waning in effectiveness anyway.

Both sides use fear. The Dems use the evil rich, class warfare, take away your social security, takes money from kids and so on. I think the right talk radio was the Clinton stuff, but it didn't help this year against Obama, so I agree, its waning in effectiveness.