Joe is an incredible dick.

That is all.

MojoFraggle: Joe is an incredible dick.

That is all.

This, plus Mika Brzezinski (or whatever the fark her name is) is hawt.

Poor Mika.

"Oh Dad, how many times have I asked you not to eviscerate my bosses on the air?"

"But I read the Washington Post and the New York Times! I know all about this stuff!"

Zbig might know a little bit more there Joe.

Well those are just facts Zbigniew, what matters is how many clever slogans you can repeat in the a thirty second sound bite.

ZBig does not suffer fools... at all, actually. Joe S. is a 3-quart bag of douche, but that's his character - his act. His SCHTICK, babeee. It's all becoming like professional wrestling.

So Brzezinski's entire point is that Arafat didn't walk away from peace negotiations? What a load. Here's what happened at Camp David in 2000: (it's from Wikipedia, which is much more honest than Zbiggy, who apparently shares his former boss's moral blind spot when it comes to the Palestinians).

Ehud Barak offered Arafat an eventual 91% (after many years - see section on territory) of the West Bank, and all of the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian control over Eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the new Palestinian state; in addition, all refugees could apply for compensation of property from an international fund to which Israel would contribute along with other countries. But before any gradual Israeli withdrawal, all Palestinian terrorist infrastructure must be dismantled. Arafat, however, refused. The Palestinians wanted the immediate withdrawal of the Israelis from the occupied territories, and only subsequently the Palestinian authority would crush all Palestinian terror organizations. The Israeli response as stated by Shlomo Ben-Ami was "we can't accept the demand for a return to the borders of June 1967 as a pre-condition for the negotiation."

Clinton, who promised Arafat that no one would be blamed if the talks failed, did, in fact, blame Arafat after the failure of the talks, stating, "I regret that in 2000 Arafat missed the opportunity to bring that nation into being and pray for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace." According to The Oslo Syndrome, "most of the European states followed Clinton in seeing the Israeli offers as very forthcoming and placing the onus for the summits's failure on Arafat .... Nor did [Arafat's] regime's post-Camp David complaints regarding Israel's not recognizing the Palestinian refugees' 'right of return' win over the Europeans or Americans." The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit.Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by Nabil Amr, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority.

Arafat's excuse (which Zbig repeats) was that Arafat had to take the deal back to the other Arab states for approval. This is a crock of shiat. Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah, hell, even the Saudis would have probably told Arafat to take the damn deal. But Arafat didn't. He got the blame for it. He f*cking deserves it.

Whatever Arafat tried to do at Taba to undo this damage, it was too little, too late. Ehud Barak was in no position to sign any deal with an Israeli election pending (he was in the same relative position then as Bush was in this summer), no matter who was in charge in DC.

Insurance_EE_guy: "But I read the Washington Post and the New York Times! I know all about this stuff!"

Zbig might know a little bit more there Joe.

"It's not the things we don't know that get us. It's the things we know that just ain't true."

This would be the same Brzezinski who thought it was a great idea to start arming and funding crazed radicals in the most backward country on the planet because they temporarily shared a mutual opponent with the United States? I'll take his advice with a grain of salt.

MasterThief & Sybarite:

Oh, he's his own kind of kooky to be sure. I just like to see Scarborough get taken down a notch or two. It's like bum fights.

This footage of Mr. Brzezinski,
Is certainly good for a grinski.
That Scarborough tool
Jus' got took back to SKOOL!
Brzezinski can chalk up a winski.

Sybarite: This would be the same Brzezinski who thought it was a great idea to start arming and funding crazed radicals in the most backward country on the planet because they temporarily shared a mutual opponent with the United States? I'll take his advice with a grain of salt.

It was good policy, the issue was that after the Soviets left Afghanistan the administration in power at the time, Bush Sr., decided that it was not in the US interest to help rebuild Afghanistan. If we had taken steps then to guide Afghanistan into a functional state we might never have had to deal with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and any number of other clusterfarks that have arisen from the cesspool.

MojoFraggle: Joe is an incredible dick.

thanks, but how'd you know i named it joe?

Absolutle Vodak: Get Zbiggy with it

// Scarborough gets the Florida tag

MasterThief:
Clinton, who promised Arafat that no one would be blamed if the talks failed, did, in fact, blame Arafat after the failure of the talks, "

It tells you everything you need to know about the character of Bill and the "publicity stunt" that was those talks with Dennis Ross.

MojoFraggle: Joe Mika is an incredible dick lefty hack.

That is all.

FTFY

Oh yeah, Zbig's a charmer:

"I encourage the Chinese to support Pol Pot...The question was how to help the Cambodian people. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could."

1979.

Brzezinski said this while in the employ of one Saint Jimmy Carter, Prince Of Peace.

Is this the thread where current problems whose causes go back a long way and are very complex all get blamed on one person and/or party?

Just checking.

Dr Dreidel: Absolutle Vodak: Get Zbiggy with it

// Scarborough gets the Florida tag

Came for this ^^^^

Zbigniew Brzezinski - "there were all sorts of provisions and catches" in Camp David.

Like Israel wanting to be recognized as a country and for the attacks on them to cease? Those darn Jews ask too much!

Gulper Eel: Oh yeah, Zbig's a charmer:

"I encourage the Chinese to support Pol Pot...The question was how to help the Cambodian people. Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him, but China could."

1979.

Brzezinski said this while in the employ of one Saint Jimmy Carter, Prince Of Peace.

People, people, please. You're getting off topic. This thread is about how much of a d-bag Joe is.

Code_Archeologist: Sybarite: This would be the same Brzezinski who thought it was a great idea to start arming and funding crazed radicals in the most backward country on the planet because they temporarily shared a mutual opponent with the United States? I'll take his advice with a grain of salt.

It was good policy, the issue was that after the Soviets left Afghanistan the administration in power at the time, Bush Sr., decided that it was not in the US interest to help rebuild Afghanistan. If we had taken steps then to guide Afghanistan into a functional state we might never have had to deal with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and any number of other clusterfarks that have arisen from the cesspool.

Afghanistan, like Israel, has been a place of war for thousands of years. We can not assume we can bring peace within one president's term of office.

Plus, there is no oil in either of those two places.

I also think it is funny that none of the Palestinian's Arab brothers will give them a place to live. Saudi is like 90% unoccupied. Plenty of room for a Palestinian homeland.



Surprisingly, Egypt and Israel have been at peace for 30 years now.

That was embarrassingly difficult to watch. Not being familiar with the show or the Scarborough guy, I was shocked at his style. That said, Brzezinski was a pretty poor choice for an interview, a little too grim and ponderous. Old-school statesman really, from when people took tv more seriously. I don't know the exact details of the 2000 talks, but the host was ridiculously biased and obviously out for blood, for some reason. He deserved that.

/anyone remember that woman who interviewed Biden during the election?

How do you pronounce Zbigniew Brzezinski's first name? Anyone have any idea?

Brubold: Zbigniew Brzezinski - "there were all sorts of provisions and catches" in Camp David.

Like Israel wanting to be recognized as a country and for the attacks on them to cease? Those darn Jews ask too much!

Good to see you have such a nuanced and deep view of the negotiations.

Poor Israel - why does everyone keep picking on them? Everyone knows that the proper retaliation for the death of a construction worker is to firebomb civialian villages and kill hundreds of people whlie undermining their democratically-elected government and enforcing policies that exacerbate poverty and send more people into the arms of Hamas.

Why won't everyone just leave Israel alone?!

FreakinB: Is this the thread where current problems whose causes go back a long way and are very complex all get blamed on one person and/or party?

Just checking.

Yes.

captain_heroic44: How do you pronounce Zbigniew Brzezinski's first name? Anyone have any idea?

"Spig-nee-eff"

/Polish

MasterThief: So Brzezinski's entire point is that Arafat didn't walk away from peace negotiations? What a load. Here's what happened at Camp David in 2000: (it's from Wikipedia, which is much more honest than Zbiggy, who apparently shares his former boss's moral blind spot when it comes to the Palestinians).

Amusing that you omitted the rest of the Wiki reference, especially Clayton Swisher's book which offers a rebuttal to the version that you offered above that blames all three parties for the breakdown in talks.

MacEnvy [TotalFark]Poor Israel - why does everyone keep picking on them? Everyone knows that the proper retaliation for the death of a construction worker is to firebomb civialian villages and kill hundreds of people whlie undermining their democratically-elected government and enforcing policies that exacerbate poverty and send more people into the arms of Hamas.

how many bullets am I allowed to shoot at your head and accidentally miss, before you and your good aim shoot back? 1? 10? 20? how about 20 a day?

MacEnvy: Brubold: Zbigniew Brzezinski - "there were all sorts of provisions and catches" in Camp David.

Like Israel wanting to be recognized as a country and for the attacks on them to cease? Those darn Jews ask too much!

Good to see you have such a nuanced and deep view of the negotiations.

Poor Israel - why does everyone keep picking on them? Everyone knows that the proper retaliation for the death of a construction worker is to firebomb civialian villages and kill hundreds of people whlie undermining their democratically-elected government and enforcing policies that exacerbate poverty and send more people into the arms of Hamas.

Why won't everyone just leave Israel alone?!

Why won't people like you recognize that Hamas hides amongst civilians to play on your hippie heart strings when some are accidentally killed when Israel tries to take out Hamas targets? Is it sad that innocents are dying? Absolutely but that doesn't mean that Israel has to sit and take rocket after rocket without responding because it will make you a sad panda.

Not to mention that the people there voted Hamas into power knowing what would happen. So it's kind of like feeling sorry for someone that dies climbing Mount Everest. Wow, that's too bad but what were they thinking?

MacEnvy: Poor Israel - why does everyone keep picking on them? Everyone knows that the proper retaliation for the death of a construction worker is to firebomb civialian villages and kill hundreds of people whlie undermining their democratically-elected government and enforcing policies that exacerbate poverty and send more people into the arms of Hamas.

Oh yeah, came to comment along these lines too. Proportionality isn't some fuzzy concept that allows Hamas to deride Israeli actions, its an actual legal ideal in justifications for self defence in documents such as the UN Charter. The legality of a military action is dependent on whether it is proportional to the provocation.

While it would be pointless to make judgements about legality in the context of Palestine, what I'm getting at is that proportionality is an internationally recognized concept, not some cowardly defence.

MasterThief: So Brzezinski's entire point is that Arafat didn't walk away from peace negotiations?

Arafat didn't kill Rabbin, either. You know, the other Nobel Peace Prize recipient. I wonder who might have? Could it be someone who hates Peace? Nah, that couldn't be a member of the peace-loving religion .. err.

What Brzezinski missed in his peace process time line was the fact that Intifada II kicked off two months after the broken Camp David process of July 2000. By January 2001, the entire process had a couple of forks in it.

I came for pics of Mika and leave bitterly disappointed.

Brubold: Why won't people like you recognize that Hamas hides amongst civilians to play on your hippie heart strings when some are accidentally killed when Israel tries to take out Hamas targets?

I don't support Hamas in any way. I think they are rightly classified as a terrorist organization. But Israel is just as bad - they don't even TRY to avoid civilian casualties in Gaza. FOr a so-called "first world" country they sure are shiatty at respecting human life.

nictamer: MasterThief: So Brzezinski's entire point is that Arafat didn't walk away from peace negotiations?

Arafat didn't kill Rabbin, either. You know, the other Nobel Peace Prize recipient. I wonder who might have? Could it be someone who hates Peace? Nah, that couldn't be a member of the peace-loving religion .. err.

[relevance needed]

Brubold: MacEnvy: Brubold: Zbigniew Brzezinski - "there were all sorts of provisions and catches" in Camp David.

Like Israel wanting to be recognized as a country and for the attacks on them to cease? Those darn Jews ask too much!

Good to see you have such a nuanced and deep view of the negotiations.

Poor Israel - why does everyone keep picking on them? Everyone knows that the proper retaliation for the death of a construction worker is to firebomb civialian villages and kill hundreds of people whlie undermining their democratically-elected government and enforcing policies that exacerbate poverty and send more people into the arms of Hamas.

Why won't everyone just leave Israel alone?!

Why won't people like you recognize that Hamas hides amongst civilians to play on your hippie heart strings when some are accidentally killed when Israel tries to take out Hamas targets?


and why won't people like YOU acknowledge that no matter how "justified" you think israel's actions are, that the country has been essentially nothing better than an asshole and bully for the last sixty years?

israel has no explicit right to exist INSTEAD of palestine. israel has no right to evict civilians from their homes simply because of their ethnicity. israel has no right to indiscriminately kill innocent people.

none of this has anything to do with hamas, the plo, or even any individual palestinians, or individual terrorists. if israel were an islamic nation, doing exactly what it's doing, but instead to jewish settlers, we'd have long ago bombed them back to the stone age.

no one is suggesting that hamas is good, or that israel should not retaliate, or any other such nonsense. the sticking point is the insistence of EVERY american conservative, as well as most of the moderates and some liberals, that israel is always in the right, always the good guy, and always justified in its actions that some of us take issue with.

Playinodds: how many bullets am I allowed to shoot at your head and accidentally miss, before you and your good aim shoot back? 1? 10? 20? how about 20 a day?

That's an excellent analogy, assuming that you think I'm entitled to slaughter your children and all your neighbors while I'm at it.

MacEnvy: captain_heroic44: How do you pronounce Zbigniew Brzezinski's first name? Anyone have any idea?

"Spig-nee-eff"

/Polish

Thanks.

If neither Israel and Palestine use any 'force':
Israel: can continue their economic blockade, chokehold, and genocide by starvation
Palestine: can do jack and shiat
Advantage: Israel

If both Israel and Palestine use force:
Palestine: low-tech crap
Israel: high-tech crap
Advantage: Israel. Nastier, but arguably more fair. As in, fighting a guy with one arm tied behind his back is somewhat fairer than fighting a guy with both hands tied behind his back.

The only thing that actually would be a fair requires outside intervention. That is, if Israel blockades Palestine while Hamas does not launch missiles (as they didn't, for months), the US and Europe then blockade Israel.

Mika has a nice rack. That is all.

The video is taking too long. What did he say?

Hang On Voltaire: The video is taking too long. What did he say?

seriously...what is the time stamp for the good stuff?

When I was a kid, I accidentally threw a baseball over the fence into the neighbor's yard, and not only would she not let me come get it, my parents caught her pouring rat poison into my pet rabbit's food. She got fined for animal cruelty.

mcreadyblue: I also think it is funny that none of the Palestinian's Arab brothers will give them a place to live. Saudi is like 90% unoccupied. Plenty of room for a Palestinian homeland.

I don't get this point.

There were people living in Israel already when it was created as a country. Are you suggesting that the right thing to do is/was to forcibly remove them to neighboring nations?

Hang On Voltaire: The video is taking too long. What did he say?

He said Joe is embarrassingly shallow.

the look is priceless

Insert_Obscure_80's_Pop_Culture_Reference_Here: Hang On Voltaire: The video is taking too long. What did he say?

seriously...what is the time stamp for the good stuff?

it gets good (i guess?) at about 6:50

/you are welcome

sorry, THIS look says it all

ahh screw it, just look at the link....mika is like oh shiat here we go


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3b9214e52d.jpg