As for the telephone call Strickland made to Emanuel, asking for billions: The governor said Emanuel called back and said "something to the effect of, 'I hear you. You may not get everything you want, but you'll get help.' "

Belly up, boys - we'll have the printing press running 24/7.

/Mugabenomics

...and still no Ohio tag.

Reactron: As for the telephone call Strickland made to Emanuel, asking for billions: The governor said Emanuel called back and said "something to the effect of, 'I hear you. You may not get everything you want, but you'll get help.' "

Belly up, boys - we'll have the printing press running 24/7.

/Mugabenomics

Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

GaryPDX: Reactron: As for the telephone call Strickland made to Emanuel, asking for billions: The governor said Emanuel called back and said "something to the effect of, 'I hear you. You may not get everything you want, but you'll get help.' "

Belly up, boys - we'll have the printing press running 24/7.

/Mugabenomics

Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

Right, because by letting Bush's tax cuts expire that totally negates the ability for Obama to introduce his own tax cuts, like, for instance, the tax plan that he's been talking about for, I dunno... the entire last farking year.

GaryPDX:
Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

GaryPDX: ...So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

You sound surprised. He said he wouldn't raise them, he didn't say he would keep the existing cuts from expiring which is subtly different.

As far as it goes, if the taxes don't go back up then government programs need to be cut. In principle, that's fine but, they will, inevitably, cut things like roads and bridges, not the full-rides for folks whose only hobby is reproducing (for example) so as to keep as many people dependent on them as possible.

GaryPDX: He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone.

What's that right-wing catchphrase? "Freedom isn't free!"? World War II saw the top tax bracket pay marginal rates of 94%.

Also, see TwistedFark's post.

I used to live in Cincinnati; money is not going to solve their problems.
Education, dental work, diet, exercise, voting Democratic, etc. etc. -- now you're talking.

evildick: GaryPDX: ...So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

You sound surprised. He said he wouldn't raise them, he didn't say he would keep the existing cuts from expiring which is subtly different.

As far as it goes, if the taxes don't go back up then government programs need to be cut. In principle, that's fine but, they will, inevitably, cut things like roads and bridges, not the full-rides for folks whose only hobby is reproducing (for example) so as to keep as many people dependent on them as possible.

Over simplified.

Part of the substantive rationale behind letting these tax cuts expire is that doing so allows for Obama's team to redistribute that percentage of the government budget towards his own plan in a way that he sees fit (providing congress co-operates).

No, weather or not you agree with the plan that Obama has outlined and the distribution of his proposed tax breaks is neither here nor there, at least in this context, because quite clearly they had mentioned repeatedly on the campaign trail that they were going to get rid of the "Bush tax cuts" and replace them with their own plan.

GaryPDX is either being willfully ignorant, or disingenuously attempting to fear monger for shiats and giggles. Don't know which, don't really care.

Personal Responsibility doesn't apply to states. It's in the 10th Amendment.

Man, I cannot type at 4am in the morning. Please read my previous post as if it was written by someone fully alert and awake.

/Maybe even a little smarter and sexier as well.
//Please?

GaryPDX: That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

Letting temporary tax relief expire != tax hike

Most grown ups know why, I'm assuming you do as well.

Maybe it's time to start shifting taxation by the federal to taxation by states. Get the Feds out of programs they should not be in (ie Education). The Feds need to stop using the interstate commerce clause to "justify" funding the War on Drugs, Education, etc etc. It's time states organized their own budgets instead of relying on the Feds to fund such things as roads, health care, education.

hahaha..watch all the people try to justify huge tax increases. We need it build the new Utopia!! We need it to take care of everyone!

woowoo!

TwistedFark: GaryPDX is either being willfully ignorant, or disingenuously attempting to fear monger for shiats and giggles. Don't know which, don't really care.

Or he is simply an idiot.

Murkanen: GaryPDX: That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

Letting temporary tax relief expire != tax hike

Most grown ups know why, I'm assuming you do as well.

All people know is what's going to happen to their checkbook.

GaryPDX: hahaha..watch all the people try to justify huge tax increases. We need it build the new Utopia!! We need it to take care of everyone!

If you approve of high spending, you should approve of high taxes as well. Anything else would be fiscally irresponsible. For the record, I think tax increases are a bad idea during an economic slump. As does our President-elect, who has stated that he would delay the expiration of the Bush tax cuts if the economy had not sufficiently recovered by tax season 2011.

GaryPDX: hahaha..watch all the people try to justify huge tax increases. We need it build the new Utopia!! We need it to take care of everyone!

woowoo!

Reagan's plan of deregulation, tax cuts, and increased spending were designed to create a credit bubble. It is that bubble that is popping today. He wasn't smart enough to understand his actions, but the plan can be simplified to the desire to bankrupt the country in order to:
a) Enrich friends
b) Destroy the Federal government's power

Keep your cheering up Patriot, make sure to let all your neighbors know this economic chaos is your proudest moment

GaryPDX: All people know is what's going to happen to their checkbook.

If by all people you mean just you...on Fark, then yeah, they do.

MyRandomName: Maybe it's time to start shifting taxation by the federal to taxation by states. Get the Feds out of programs they should not be in (ie Education). The Feds need to stop using the interstate commerce clause to "justify" funding the War on Drugs, Education, etc etc. It's time states organized their own budgets instead of relying on the Feds to fund such things as roads, health care, education.

In principle yes.

In practice - no.

Think how bad certain states like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc are already. Imagine how much shiattier they would be if they had to rely upon their own tax base. Also you have to realize that the federal government can mandate regulation at a state level that costs money, yet not provide funding for it (See: No Child Left Behind)

As much as I would like for Real America ™ to come face to face with the stark realization that the latte-sipping liberals have been carrying their asses so that they don't have to live like cockroaches for the sheer schadenfreude of it, I also don't want to live next to farking Somalia either.

Most of the south is a big enough shiat hole as it is, it certainly doesn't need to get any worse.

MyRandomName: Get the Feds out of programs they should not be in (ie Education).

I see getting the feds out of education as a violation of the equal protection clause, as kids in Alabama and the like would get a shiatty education about "the world is 6,000 years old!" while kids in Massachusetts get taught about the actual history of the world.

ceejayoz: I see getting the feds out of education as a violation of the equal protection clause

Bull. That's like saying people in bumfark Alabama deserve the same El system as Chicago because otherwise it would be unfaaaaaair. And by the same token, who should decide what determines a 'good' education vs a 'shiatty' education? Could you imagine if the DOE actually controlled the curriculum nationwide? The last 8 years would have had us graduating nothing but creationist morans. Consider the ramifications of what you're proposing.

NO!

No no no.

I say just let Ohio fail.

We don't deserve the money.

Ohio has more unfunded mandate expenditures per capita than any other state in the country. I don't blame them for being pissed and asking for cash.

(If you're curious why, it's the extensive federal interstate presence coupled with an education system that puts most decisionmaking at the local level [gasp!] and is relatively efficient and productive -- or was, until No Child Left Behind.)

Klingon Penis: I used to live in Cincinnati; money is not going to solve their problems.
Education, dental work, diet, exercise, voting Democratic responsible, qualified people who will get the job done, etc. etc. -- now you're talking.

FTFY. You better start hearing of a guy in Ohio called John Kasich soon. He helped balanced the federal budget in the 1990s when he was in Congress.

I live in Ohio. Problem that's causing this is not coming from either Columbus or Cincinnati, but everwhere else. Cities like Cleveland, Dayton, Toledo, Akron, and Youngstown where Drew has connections for mafia are reasons why Ohio is in the shiatter. Rust belt towns who didn't spent less to reinvent themselves are the cause. My town in Ohio (which has the same rust belt problems), some of the city leaders got pay raises to keep up with their standard of living.

TwistedFark: MyRandomName: Maybe it's time to start shifting taxation by the federal to taxation by states. Get the Feds out of programs they should not be in (ie Education). The Feds need to stop using the interstate commerce clause to "justify" funding the War on Drugs, Education, etc etc. It's time states organized their own budgets instead of relying on the Feds to fund such things as roads, health care, education.

In principle yes.

In practice - no.

Think how bad certain states like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc are already. Imagine how much shiattier they would be if they had to rely upon their own tax base. Also you have to realize that the federal government can mandate regulation at a state level that costs money, yet not provide funding for it (See: No Child Left Behind)

As much as I would like for Real America ™ to come face to face with the stark realization that the latte-sipping liberals have been carrying their asses so that they don't have to live like cockroaches for the sheer schadenfreude of it, I also don't want to live next to farking Somalia either.

Most of the south is a big enough shiat hole as it is, it certainly doesn't need to get any worse.

Education funding increased 58% (new window) under Bush.

GaryPDX: Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

From Meet the Press transcripts:

MR. GREGORY: All right, but you're not--because the commitment was to, to lower those taxes to definitely--excuse me, I mean to raise those taxes on people by letting those tax cuts expire. You're saying you'll hold on and see. You won't make a decision yet.

MR. AXELROD: Yes, I'm saying that. But I'm also--I also want to stress that what the president-elect proposed during the campaign amounted to a net tax cut. In other words, when you add up the tax cuts and the change--the expiration or the repeal of, of the tax cut for the wealthy, it'll amount to a net tax cut for the American people. It'll just restore some balance, David, which we badly need.

Basically, you are a liar. Period.

MyRandomName: TwistedFark: MyRandomName: Maybe it's time to start shifting taxation by the federal to taxation by states. Get the Feds out of programs they should not be in (ie Education). The Feds need to stop using the interstate commerce clause to "justify" funding the War on Drugs, Education, etc etc. It's time states organized their own budgets instead of relying on the Feds to fund such things as roads, health care, education.

In principle yes.

In practice - no.

Think how bad certain states like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc are already. Imagine how much shiattier they would be if they had to rely upon their own tax base. Also you have to realize that the federal government can mandate regulation at a state level that costs money, yet not provide funding for it (See: No Child Left Behind)

As much as I would like for Real America ™ to come face to face with the stark realization that the latte-sipping liberals have been carrying their asses so that they don't have to live like cockroaches for the sheer schadenfreude of it, I also don't want to live next to farking Somalia either.

Most of the south is a big enough shiat hole as it is, it certainly doesn't need to get any worse.

Education funding increased 58% (new window) under Bush.

As far as I can tell that has absolutely nothing to do with anything that I said. I never claimed anyone raised or cut funding for education, I merely pointed out that the federal government can mandate expenditures, yet not provide explicit funding for it.

And yes, No Child Left Behind does have funding problems - easily verified.

no more farking bailouts for anyone.

In my state, we know what our biggest expenditure is - the city of philadelphia. Pittsburg, to a lesser extent of course...but money hits the city of philadelphia and it just evaporates. Clean up city government, actually throw people in jail for corruption, and that would be a good start on fixing our problems.

But we're not gonna do it. GOD no, we're not going to clean that place up.

bartink: GaryPDX: Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

From Meet the Press transcripts:

MR. GREGORY: All right, but you're not--because the commitment was to, to lower those taxes to definitely--excuse me, I mean to raise those taxes on people by letting those tax cuts expire. You're saying you'll hold on and see. You won't make a decision yet.

MR. AXELROD: Yes, I'm saying that. But I'm also--I also want to stress that what the president-elect proposed during the campaign amounted to a net tax cut. In other words, when you add up the tax cuts and the change--the expiration or the repeal of, of the tax cut for the wealthy, it'll amount to a net tax cut for the American people. It'll just restore some balance, David, which we badly need.

Basically, you are a liar. Period.

Holy crap! Do you mean that they are proposing doing what they said they'd do all along?

THE OUTRAGE! HOW DARE THEY RAISE TAXES ON SOME AND LOWER THEM ON OTHERS LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD!

Boy, if I had a time machine I would totally vote for Judge Wapner now, even with the crazy moose lady as his new bailiff.

GaryPDX: Reactron: As for the telephone call Strickland made to Emanuel, asking for billions: The governor said Emanuel called back and said "something to the effect of, 'I hear you. You may not get everything you want, but you'll get help.' "

Belly up, boys - we'll have the printing press running 24/7.

/Mugabenomics

Did you see Axelrod on Meet the Press this morning? He flat out said the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire, "we need them to expire". That's trillions in tax increases for everyone. So all that not raising taxes talk from Obama was nothing but bullshiat.

I saw Axlerod on Meet the Press this morning. He was as clear as Obama has been for the past year. They're going to let the Bush tax cuts on the very wealthy expire, while introducing permanent tax cuts for lower earning Americans. But because you are a dishonest person, you left the important qualifiers out, and characterized it as a tax increase on everyone. It's not, you know it, and you are a liar.

Funk Brothers: FTFY. You better start hearing of a guy in Ohio called John Kasich soon. He helped balanced the federal budget in the 1990s when he was in Congress.

I heard Kasich when he was pushing his FAIL of a book at the Barnes & Noble in Kenwood. He wants to be Bill O'Reilly so bad; it was hilarious.

The fact that you would suggest such a retard as a leader forces me to ignore the rest of your post; sorry.

Weaver95: no more farking bailouts for anyone.

In my state, we know what our biggest expenditure is - the city of philadelphia. Pittsburg, to a lesser extent of course...but money hits the city of philadelphia and it just evaporates. Clean up city government, actually throw people in jail for corruption, and that would be a good start on fixing our problems.

But we're not gonna do it. GOD no, we're not going to clean that place up.

In China they sometimes execute people who are too corrupt. Maybe we should start doing that.

Weaver95: In my state, we know what our biggest expenditure is - the city of philadelphia.

It's probably your biggest tax revenue generator as well.

Mugabenomics indeed. States who decided to spend like crazy are now going to force the rest of us to live through high inflation and slower economic growth. When will America stop throwing money in the money hole?

Shaggy_C: Weaver95: In my state, we know what our biggest expenditure is - the city of philadelphia.

It's probably your biggest tax revenue generator as well.

Whatever!

Everyone knows that the entire economy of the United States is based on two things:

Farming and Plumbing.

TwistedFark

I posted that as you commented that the NCLB was unfunded. Spending on Education greatly increased after the NCLB was passed. Maybe it wasn't funded enough for you, but at some point the taxpayer has to ask where exactly that money is going (To administrators, at least in my school district).

From a taxpayer standpoint, I would rather have the State control the purse strings of government spending as I can actually have some influence over state spending. I can't go and throw out the Senators from 49 other states, but I can go out and campaign at a local level.

Klingon Penis: Funk Brothers: FTFY. You better start hearing of a guy in Ohio called John Kasich soon. He helped balanced the federal budget in the 1990s when he was in Congress.

I heard Kasich when he was pushing his FAIL of a book at the Barnes & Noble in Kenwood. He wants to be Bill O'Reilly so bad; it was hilarious.

The fact that you would suggest such a retard as a leader forces me to ignore the rest of your post; sorry.

You're full of FAIL. He ran for President against Bush in 2000. There have been a number of great Republican govenors from Ohio which include Rhodes and Voinovich. How do you know Kasich wants to be O'Reilly? Kasich was in Congress, O'Reilly wasn't. O'Reilly has focused himself mainly to entertainment and media, Kasich has focused on politics. Kasich came and spoke to us at our opening College Republicans meeting last September. He was good. At least he will have better leadership than Ted Strickland.

Shaggy_C: Weaver95: In my state, we know what our biggest expenditure is - the city of philadelphia.

It's probably your biggest tax revenue generator as well.

actually, it's not. property values (and sales) have continued to decline over the past decade and population has actually slightly increased.

the ONLY reason philly continues to live in their fantasy land is because they represent the largest single voting bloc in the state general elections. they essentially determine who gets to be a US senator and who gets to be governor. which means those people send philly lots of money and look the other way when it comes to corruption. Christ - the standing joke in this state is that nobody in philly ever dies, they just change party affilation. it's THAT blatant.

TwistedFark: Farming and Plumbing.

Don't forget the Army! That's got to account for fully 75% of Real America's GDP.

Funk Brothers: How do you know Kasich wants to be O'Reilly?

Probably because he's O'Reilly go-to guy as guest host of The O'Reilly Factor.
And, like I said, I heard him "bloviate", as BillO' the Clown likes to say.

Sorry to hear about your membership in the College Republicans;
I'm guessing the audio-visual squad gets laid more than you guys.

MyRandomName: I posted that as you commented that the NCLB was unfunded. Spending on Education greatly increased after the NCLB was passed. Maybe it wasn't funded enough for you, but at some point the taxpayer has to ask where exactly that money is going (To administrators, at least in my school district).

From a taxpayer standpoint, I would rather have the State control the purse strings of government spending as I can actually have some influence over state spending. I can't go and throw out the Senators from 49 other states, but I can go out and campaign at a local level.

That's fine, but then you have to some how magically take away congresses ability to mandate expenditures at the state level, and frankly despite the fact that this will never, ever, ever farking happen - I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

Also, it's not a matter of being "funded to my liking", it's a matter of the Feds mandate that your state performs functions "A", "B" and C" - ok, fine. But then when the bill for that amounts to twice what they've provided, even if they've increased previous allocations by a gazillion percent, the mandate is still unfunded.

I think I understand where you're coming from, I just think it's not a real smart idea and would probably lead to disaster.

Luckily (at least in my opinion), we'll never know definitively who's right, since it'll never happen anyway...

Weaver95: which means those people send philly lots of money and look the other way when it comes to corruption. Christ - the standing joke in this state is that nobody in philly ever dies, they just change party affilation. it's THAT blatant.

I'm from Chicago; believe me, I understand. But you really think Philly is a net negative for the state in terms of fiscal matters? If you were to eliminate all of the tax revenue and all of the cost, I have a feeling the state would not be in a better place.

Klingon Penis: Funk Brothers: How do you know Kasich wants to be O'Reilly?

Probably because he's O'Reilly go-to guy as guest host of The O'Reilly Factor.
And, like I said, I heard him "bloviate", as BillO' the Clown likes to say.

Sorry to hear about your membership in the College Republicans;
I'm guessing the audio-visual squad gets laid more than you guys.

We drink more than Ted Kennedy.

Funk Brothers: We drink more than Ted Kennedy.

Insulting a guy with brain cancer; nice. You guys always have your thumb on the pulse of the country.
Kinda like that guy running for the RNC chair who thought it would be a good idea to distribute a CD of nasty parody songs including "Barack the Magic Negro".

Keep it up. The longer you guys are out of power, the better things get.

Shaggy_C: I'm from Chicago; believe me, I understand. But you really think Philly is a net negative for the state in terms of fiscal matters? If you were to eliminate all of the tax revenue and all of the cost, I have a feeling the state would not be in a better place.

I don't want to eliminate philly, I just want to clean it out and get rid of the graft, corruption and extreme inefficiency. take your pick of the problem - tammy hall style machine politics, mobbed up unions, greed, incompetence, slavering stupidity...you can find it on every floor of city hall. But nobody in Harrisburg has the power to force the city to clean itself up.

I've come to learn the federal government picks and chooses when they should respect the 10th Amendment. And they don't pick it often, if at all.

If the state of Ohio is in dire straits financially, that should be their problem. But looking at the financial bailouts and the automaker loan bailouts, I'm sure Obama and co. will continue the tradition of disregarding the 10th amendment.

Klingon Penis: Insulting a guy with brain cancer; nice.

He drove drunk with a passenger in the car. He crashed the car in the water and left the scene without saving the passenger. The next day, a mysterious car was in the water with a passenger who drowned. Ted was never found guilty because his last name was Kennedy.

This and he also allowed a friend to his Spanish exam.

Funk Brothers: This and he also allowed a friend to his Spanish exam.

Did he accidentally the whole exam?