That's BS. Batista had Carmen. The Commies don't have anything.

GaryPDX: Batista had Carmen.

Brazilian. Carmen != United Fruit.

Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Should have thought about that before they let Kruschev park a bunch of nukes right off the coast of the industrialized, liberal democracy and then begged to let them fly. Then decades of human rights abuses and suppression of dissidents doesn't help much, either.

They just keep telling themselves that it could be worse. They could be living in Detroit.

Obvious tag is missing? When your country is owned by foreign businesses who dictate your life, life is awful. At least the communist government is their own government. It doesn't help that the oppressive laws previous to the communist government's were there by request of American agricultural businesses. That hardly gives the US any clout at all when it comes to human rights on the island.

kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Yep, that sure would be nice. If only a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy hadn't supported the capitalist dictator who ruled them before, then invaded their country when he was overthrown, declared an embargo, and repeatedly tried to assassinate their more popular communist dictator.

Nabb1: kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Should have thought about that before they let Kruschev park a bunch of nukes right off the coast of the industrialized, liberal democracy and then begged to let them fly. Then decades of human rights abuses and suppression of dissidents doesn't help much, either.

Yeah good thing our embargo really made Castro regret committing all those abuses more than the people who suffer under them. Fifty years later, we sure showed those morons up.

Not. Face it dude, your precious embargo did jack. And it's gonna keep doing jack for as long as you keep it.

Nabb1: Then decades of human rights abuses and suppression of dissidents doesn't help much, either.

Are you talking about Cuba or the liberal democracy?

My sister in law is the great grand daughter of one of the previous Cuban presidents. Her family, as one of the ruling elite, lost everything and left her country under gun fire.

I am a little torn as to my conclusions on the situation. It is the product of a previous generation. Castro is an autocrat. Yet he was able to seize power because of something that was seriously wrong with Cuban society.

Castro, like the khmer rouge, was a true believer in a bankrupt ideology that advocated a violent solution to an omnipresent problem. Poverty and class divisions will always exist. I think it is time he got over it.

Nabb1: kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Should have thought about that before they let Kruschev park a bunch of nukes right off the coast of the industrialized, liberal democracy and then begged to let them fly. Then decades of human rights abuses and suppression of dissidents doesn't help much, either.

Christ on a stick, are you ever off? Have the Castro regimes been the greatest thing? No, they've been terrible. But if we wanted to make a real difference there, is the way to do that by ignoring that these humans who are being abused exist? How about aiding to any potential hunger problems by refusing to trade? Your opinions have been sold to you, and somehow you still try to convince yourself that you haven't bought a lemon. Tell you what, why don't we get our own f'd up house in order before we go back to worrying about holding old grudges. The embargo is, was, and forever shall be an abject failure of foreign policy. Now, pardon me as I sit back and wait for the ever-so-predictable reply.

WE LOVE CUBA!

Under Batista, they were practically a US colony, the US backyard were the rich went to get their prostitutes.

It doesn't get any worse than that, I would burn down my country that let it be USA's biatch. Most people think the same. I'll tell you something: Why instead of thinking that all the governments in the world are hiding their internals and that your government is telling you the true ... isn't it more logic to think that the joke is on you?

Communism ISN'T bad. It's not even THAT farking important!. it's just an economic system. Freedom? I think most Cubans have way more freedom than the average American.

I don't see the government in Cuba taking people houses out. Can you say the same about your banks?

They accepted the government as rulemaker. You accepted the banks and corporations for that role. You own one of the richest pieces of land on the world. They have a small and poor island.

With only few resources, they are doing farkING great. You can't even live on your own resources guys! You are depending on foreign oil, and on the exploitation of foreign economies.

Make an HONEST comparison of resources, years, and results. If we take:

Few Resources / 50 Years = Cuba today
( Lots of Resources + Stealing Resources from other countries ) / 230 years = USA today

I think if we consider that, then Cuba > USA.

Keep talking bullshiat about Castro, while your corporate overlords take away your houses, and outsource your jobs to India.

The Joke is on you, USA.

b2theory: My sister in law is the great grand daughter of one of the previous Cuban presidents. Her family, as one of the ruling elite, lost everything and left her country under gun fire.

so why should we feel sorry for rich folks who left the poor and dark behind and are now controlling Florida?

A revolution needed to happen. I'm just sorry it turned out this way.

kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Yeah, I mean, think about it... you could be much better off! Like Haiti, for example.

How many people have had to die miserable deaths because of our stubborn inability to let policies from the 'Red Scare' of the 1950s go?

almafuerte: Under Batista, they were practically a US colony, the US backyard were the rich went to get their prostitutes.

It doesn't get any worse than that, I would burn down my country that let it be USA's biatch. Most people think the same. I'll tell you something: Why instead of thinking that all the governments in the world are hiding their internals and that your government is telling you the true ... isn't it more logic to think that the joke is on you?

Communism ISN'T bad. It's not even THAT farking important!. it's just an economic system. Freedom? I think most Cubans have way more freedom than the average American.

I don't see the government in Cuba taking people houses out. Can you say the same about your banks?

They accepted the government as rulemaker. You accepted the banks and corporations for that role. You own one of the richest pieces of land on the world. They have a small and poor island.

With only few resources, they are doing farkING great. You can't even live on your own resources guys! You are depending on foreign oil, and on the exploitation of foreign economies.

Make an HONEST comparison of resources, years, and results. If we take:

Few Resources / 50 Years = Cuba today
( Lots of Resources + Stealing Resources from other countries ) / 230 years = USA today

I think if we consider that, then Cuba > USA.

Keep talking bullshiat about Castro, while your corporate overlords take away your houses, and outsource your jobs to India.

The Joke is on you, USA.

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Love how this guy explains how easy it is to set up a photo-op.

Yuri Bezmenov Explains Soviet Strategy for Subversion 1 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVZ4Lkm6JQw

almafuerte: Communism ISN'T bad. It's not even THAT farking important!. it's just an economic system. Freedom? I think most Cubans have way more freedom than the average American.

*looks around*

How many Cuban Farkers are there? How many would be allowed to post on our politics tab? We're at least allowed freedom of thought, even if it is really a smokescreen to distract us from the fact we really don't get a choice in terms of the leaders that we 'elect'.

almafuerte: Under Batista, they were practically a US colony, the US backyard were the rich went to get their prostitutes.

It doesn't get any worse than that,


Cool - so you think Tijuana is great because Mexicans are flooding over our border and that's where the average middle-aged or poorer person near the border goes to get his prostitutes.

/yeah, I've been there....good times.

biyaaatci: Nabb1: kronicfeld: Just imagine how uncrappy their lives might be if they had fifty years of normalized relations and abundant trade with a nearby industrialized, liberal democracy. Oh well.

Should have thought about that before they let Kruschev park a bunch of nukes right off the coast of the industrialized, liberal democracy and then begged to let them fly. Then decades of human rights abuses and suppression of dissidents doesn't help much, either.

Christ on a stick, are you ever off? Have the Castro regimes been the greatest thing? No, they've been terrible. But if we wanted to make a real difference there, is the way to do that by ignoring that these humans who are being abused exist? How about aiding to any potential hunger problems by refusing to trade? Your opinions have been sold to you, and somehow you still try to convince yourself that you haven't bought a lemon. Tell you what, why don't we get our own f'd up house in order before we go back to worrying about holding old grudges. The embargo is, was, and forever shall be an abject failure of foreign policy. Now, pardon me as I sit back and wait for the ever-so-predictable reply.

a resounding +1 retort of wounding!

it's nice to see people who realize that, yes, Castro isn't a saint, but can also criticize his policies, without turning to the "Hurf Durf Socialesms are bad! Castro is teh new Hitlar!"

i'm thinking that once raul takes the reigns and obama dismantles the embargo and kills off 'helms-burton', the castros will no longer be able to point to the 'evil empire' to the north and will be forced to cede some rights and liberties of their people.

however, as much as i don't agree with the process, Cuba only has about 100 or so political prisoners, whereas China - everyone's favorite trading partner - has roughly 200K plus.

/queue the legions of hurfdurfs who refuse to listen to the facts, or work towards true progress and begin their mating call of 'glass parking lots'

Headline: Cubans seek end to hardship, not revolution

That is like saying I would like to end hangovers, not my drinking.

Shaggy_C: How many people have had to die miserable deaths because of our stubborn inability to let policies from the 'Red Scare' of the 1950s go?

Well said. I swear, so many people piss their pants at the thought of anything other than the very same type of government that we claim to hold dear. But only the ones that those of Joe's ilk decide to tell us are evil.

Batista's gone? Why hasn't anyone told me?

It's still real to me..

almafuerte:
Make an HONEST comparison of resources, years, and results. If we take:

Few Resources / 50 Years = Cuba today
( Lots of Resources + Stealing Resources from other countries ) / 230 years = USA today

I think if we consider that, then Cuba > USA.

Keep talking bullshiat about Castro, while your corporate overlords take away your houses, and outsource your jobs to India.

The Joke is on you, USA.

Actually, the joke is on all of us, because as you've pointed out we've let the corporations and banks take over a role that we should have kept for OURSELVES, and now we're just as fascist as Cuba is Communist, and it sure as hell looks like neither one is working to me.

Centralize power and this will always be the end result, whatever "ism" you want to attach to it.

Always curious about the beliefs that people hold that rich or middle income people =evil and poor =honet. Total stereotyping.

Why don't Cubans (American Cubans) comment on this article? None of the previous posters appear to be Cuban.

I would be interested to hear what Cubans have to say about Cuba rather than whites or hispanics who have never lived there.

Samsaran: Shaggy_C: How many people have had to die miserable deaths because of our stubborn inability to let policies from the 'Red Scare' of the 1950s go?

I suppose you should ask the Castro brothers that question.

And you are the one questioning others' simple-mindedness? Do you not think there would have been a better way to deal with this?

jeffwashingdc:Not. Face it dude, your precious embargo did jack. And it's gonna keep doing jack for as long as you keep it.

Wait, is there common sense at Fark? Is this a meme, a trick, a troll or a cliche' that I am not aware of? Holy crap.

The embargo hasn't done shiat. Open relations with Cuba will fix a lot more problems than the current policies are doing. Even if ONE thing gets fixed, that's a whole lot more than zero.

/ open relations doesn't mean telling Cuba what to do.

Jarhead_h: almafuerte

Bravo. Well said.

I shall add that the existence of Cuba in 2008 is a direct response to the existence of the USA, and it's actions. If the US didn't jeopardize Cuba's government constantly, it would be way more open, and way more successful.

Also, the anti-communist bullshiat is obviously against anything not making money for the USA, because I don't see the USA having any issues trading with Communist China, right?

Just finishing Havana Nocturne. Gangsters from the US did set up Casinos with the idea of bankrolling other criminal enterprises. Also it was a good way to set visiting politicians up for blackmail.

Maybe Kennedy was lucky Castro won.

a product of Cuba

Ah, communism again... Cuba is a socialist state, not a communist state.
There has never been a communist state, and short of star trek levels of technology (unlimited power/virtually unlimited resources) there never will be.
As to TFA, do you really expect anyone talking to the foreign press to do anything but toe the line?
Yes things were bad under Batista, the poor were really poor, the rich were really rich.
Now everyone is equally poor except for ranking party members. Funny how that works out.

/Meet the new boss...

Samsaran: Cuba is shiathole ... not because of Castro ... but because of all those fat pasty Canadians on "holiday" in Cuba because they can't afford Honolulu or Orlando.

Oh most of us can easily afford Honolulu or Orlando, we just can't be bothered with fat, arrogant Americans and their greasy tasteless food.

Spent my last holiday in Turkey and Greece actually, kicks way more ass than Disneyland.

The embargo did jack. Its merely a Fark You to Castro and his regime. Cuba is an impoverished shiathole because its a communist dictatorship, and not because of anything the USA ever did.

hyperspacemonkey: At least the communist government is their own government.

The defenders of Cuban communism know so very little about the Cuban Revolution. The people of Cuba didn't support the revolution to put a Communist regime in. They supported the stated goal of Castro and the revolutionaries: To enforce the results of the recent election. When Castro found out he had lost said election, he had the totals destroyed and declared himself leader. When the non-communist revolutionaries said "Hey Fidel, you lied. And you are totally pulling a Batista here dude", Castro sent them to jail, had them killed or sent them to jail and executed them later. And that included women and teenagers.

So don't say "Its their own government" when its a dictatorship ruled and maintained with force.

Cuba's problem is Cuba not the U.S.

Yeah, because trading with the "world largest economy" would not help Cuba, especially given its location.

Why do you think the embargo was put in place if not to hurt Cuba?

And yet, they kick our ass when it comes to healthcare.

Now, five decades after the triumph of the revolution that toppled dictator Fulgencio Batista and put Fidel Castro in power on January 1, 1959, the rich are gone and a social safety net is in place, but economic hardship remains.



so the solution was to make everyone poor? yeah, great job there fidel.

DrForrester: And yet, they kick our ass when it comes to healthcare.

I suppose crappy health care 20 years behind current technology is better than no health at all....but I don't think i'd want to go that route.

DrForrester: And yet, they kick our ass when it comes to healthcare.

According to Michael Moore. Notice he didn't chat with anyone with AIDS, Certain Cancers,etc.. because they are locked up and left to die.

Dr.Richter:
Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Um, where is Almafuerte trolling? Everything Alma said is true. Particularly about Cuba's past and why there was a revolution in the first place. Now, things could definitely be better in Cuba...... but Newsisgoodfood is DEFINTELY right about the example of Haiti. How exactly would Cuba be better of with an American puppet in place all those years, instead of Fidel?

Now you can tit for tat with Alma on whether anything they wrote is a net positive or a net negative -- or neutral -- when it comes to comparing America and Cuba; but don't call Alma a troll just because Alma said something you don't agree with. Where are you coming from, Richter? old school wealthy Cuban? new 'status quo' Cuban? old American fart who remembers the days the Mob ran Cuba, fondly? a jingoist who will also 'buys American' even if it means 'made in China'? or someone who wants something better for Cuba?

I think most people want better for Cuba, because most people want better for everyone regardless. But Fidel is not Stalin and shouldn't be treated as such just because he thumbed his nose at America and won.

Samsaran: Our embargo is just one nation ... the rest of the world is free to trade with Cuba.

Once again, your ignorance comes to the forefront.


International Sanctions against the Cuban Government. Economic embargo, any non-US company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the US, which is a much larger market.

otis rushmore: Always curious about the beliefs that people hold that rich or middle income people =evil and poor =honet. Total stereotyping.

Why don't Cubans (American Cubans) comment on this article? None of the previous posters appear to be Cuban.

I would be interested to hear what Cubans have to say about Cuba rather than whites or hispanics who have never lived there.

You are right that an 'out' Cuban presence is necessary in these discussions. But how can you include Cuban-Americans in an assumption about which Cubans have a right to talk about Cuba because they 'live it'? And I see you've excluded blacks and indigenous (Indian) folks -- Cuban, Cuban-American and non-Cuban -- opinions as well. Why?

Memoryalpha: Ah, communism again... Cuba is a socialist state, not a communist state.
There has never been a communist state, and short of star trek levels of technology (unlimited power/virtually unlimited resources) there never will be.
As to TFA, do you really expect anyone talking to the foreign press to do anything but toe the line?
Yes things were bad under Batista, the poor were really poor, the rich were really rich.
Now everyone is equally poor except for ranking party members. Funny how that works out.

/Meet the new boss...


I agree partially with you, Actually Neither Castro or Guevara where purely Marxist, Castro had Socialist Ideas. The "Communism" tag was attached to gain a valuable ally like the CCCP.

About poverty in Cuba now and Before. Now people eat, have hospitals, and education.

Let's go to the facts:

HDI (Human Development Index) according to the UN:

Cuba is in place 48. It went up 3 POSITIONS compared to 2005.

The USA is 15, and went DOWN 3 POSITIONS since 2005.

Cuba's HDI is 0.855, which is GREAT, specially for a country with almost no resources.

The kind of poverty we are talking about under Batista, is people with no education, no public health, dying of hunger.

Cuba has one of the lowest child mortality rates in the world, and 100% literacy among young. Education and Health Care are free and universal.

The guys running to Florida are looking for DVDs and IPods. Period.
The revolution turned a country that was next to what Somalia is today, to a top-50 country. PERIOD.

Samsaran: This photo is from a Cuban Hospital.



This photo is from an american hospital emergency room waiting area. The man on the right is dead, and no one bothered to care.

Ikahoshi: Samsaran: Cuba is shiathole ... not because of Castro ... but because of all those fat pasty Canadians on "holiday" in Cuba because they can't afford Honolulu or Orlando.

Oh most of us can easily afford Honolulu or Orlando, we just can't be bothered with fat, arrogant Americans and their greasy tasteless food.

Spent my last holiday in Turkey and Greece actually, kicks way more ass than Disneyland.

Stay out the Midwest and you wouldn't have a bunch of fat, arrogant Americans with greasy, tasteless food around you. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go put on my bikini and rollerblade my sharp-kneed ass around the park while eating a tofuburger and taking shots of wheatgrass.

/actually is a carnivorous chef
//is still scrawny, tho :(

Shaggy_C: This photo is from an american hospital emergency room waiting area. The man on the right is dead, and no one bothered to care.

Yes, but if you'll notice - the floors in the US emergency room are MUCH cleaner than the floors in that cuban shiathole. So obviously we're far superior.