wwl.com farked? my my my

Good.

As much as I support gay marriage, I don't think this ruling makes sense. Full faith and credit doesn't mean you have to accept acts of other states which conflict with your own law.

What could make this end badly now? Seems to be over, and it has a good resolution.

DamnYankees: As much as I support gay marriage, I don't think this ruling makes sense. Full faith and credit doesn't mean you have to accept acts of other states which conflict with your own law.

The "gay people can't adopt" and "change the birth certificate names based on adoption" are two separate parts of the law. Just because New York law conflicts with Louisiana in the former, that doesn't mean that it conflicts in the latter.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that just because two men can't adopt in LA, all the rest of the laws in LA about adoption should be ignored.

Where does this end? Same sex couples can adopt a child? What if they want to adopt, say, a goat? And have it given full rights? Should that be allowed, a couple of gay men adopting a goat? And what's that lead to, huh? Raise a goat in a household like that, exposed to that sort of immoral/amoral behavior. You'll have goats growing up and deciding they want to become chickens or something, and think of what they'll do to pay for procedures like that. Rampant spread of half goat, half chicken dealers pimping themselves out to make money to afford the part of the feather transplant, gay couples cruising for gock. Goats crossing one state line to meet chickens in the next and then trying to get adopted by gay men in the next. A swirling vortex of sick, twisted sin. Mark my words. Mark them.

SphericalTime: The "gay people can't adopt" and "change the birth certificate names based on adoption" are two separate parts of the law. Just because New York law conflicts with Louisiana in the former, that doesn't mean that it conflicts in the latter.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that just because two men can't adopt in LA, all the rest of the laws in LA about adoption should be ignored.

So you are arguing there is a difference between "gay couples adopting" and "gay couples being adoptive parents"? Interesting argument.

Just like Iran, there are no gay people in Louisiana

You know who else made minorities identify themselves?

Is there a way, that in our lifetimes, we will stop crapping on these people, and just let them live? Seriously? Just leave them to do what they wish, instead of stepping on their toes constantly because some people are uncomfortable with their private lifestyles?

Seriously doubt it.

Another ghey thread on fark? yawn. Let's drag out all the old polygamy, goat, and turtle farking arguements.

Pocket Ninja: Where does this end? Same sex couples can adopt a child? What if they want to adopt, say, a goat? And have it given full rights? Should that be allowed, a couple of gay men adopting a goat? And what's that lead to, huh? Raise a goat in a household like that, exposed to that sort of immoral/amoral behavior. You'll have goats growing up and deciding they want to become chickens or something, and think of what they'll do to pay for procedures like that. Rampant spread of half goat, half chicken dealers pimping themselves out to make money to afford the part of the feather transplant, gay couples cruising for gock. Goats crossing one state line to meet chickens in the next and then trying to get adopted by gay men in the next. A swirling vortex of sick, twisted sin. Mark my words. Mark them.

I would, but Wite-Out doesn't work on monitors very well. :)

Didn't RTFA, but the judge must be a fundamentalist. He obviously doesn't believe in biology.

Aren't Birth Certificates for the state of parentage at birth... and Adoption Certificates for the state of parentage at adoption?

Unless both dads actually were the biological parents of the child I don't see why both dads should be on the birth certificate. Nor do I see why they seem to have such difficulty presenting the Adoption Certificate at times when their parentage is questioned.

Such a silly bruhaha

DamnYankees: Full faith and credit doesn't mean you have to accept acts of other states which conflict with your own law.

You base this conclusion on what, exactly?

DamnYankees: SphericalTime: The "gay people can't adopt" and "change the birth certificate names based on adoption" are two separate parts of the law. Just because New York law conflicts with Louisiana in the former, that doesn't mean that it conflicts in the latter.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that just because two men can't adopt in LA, all the rest of the laws in LA about adoption should be ignored.

So you are arguing there is a difference between "gay couples adopting" and "gay couples being adoptive parents"? Interesting argument.

Legally, yes, there is a difference. One is an action, the other is a state of being.

Goofy, yes, but if you think I'm nitpicking, you obviously haven't paid much attention to the way law works.

What the hell is all this gay bashing? Let them be gay...they're people.

I don't get it, it's like saying that I can't marry blondes, or tall women, or whatever insignificant difference that they for some reason dislike.

I think gays make better parents than retards, but they let retards have as many kids as they want...

There can only be one biological father.
Just as there can only be on biological mother.
The other father or mother can adopt later.

Louisiana is where folks too dumb for Florida are exiled to.'

seminole87: which one of the dudes gave birth to it?

I am sure it was some loving caring God ordain heterosexual couple who in the loving embrace of their Lord and by His orders completely abandoned their child.

/because only marriage heterosexual couples can raise children
//accept when they can't
///family values!

DamnYankees: As much as I support gay marriage, I don't think this ruling makes sense. Full faith and credit doesn't mean you have to accept acts of other states which conflict with your own law.

The problem here is that at the federal level, the failure to recognize the relationship creates a hindrance on long-held concept of "freedom of travel"... if the couple travels with their kids, as almost every couple does, and something were to happen to the listed parent, the state would no doubt try to put the kids in foster care or take them away. It's one thing to say you don't want to recognize the marriage, but you cross the line by saying that you're going to place their kids at increased risk if they dare pass through your state.

Mugato: You know who else made minorities identify themselves?

reagan

Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

Smith, an accountant, is the family's breadwinner.

I'm not trying to stereotype or anything, but I've noticed that gay guys tend to be farking awesome with math and money. I know a few gay guys, not many, but a few. Among them, two accountants and an attorney specializing in taxation. It's weird but it seems to be a recurring theme.

"Next people will be marrying sheep!"

Is that still the dumb argument against same sex marriage?

Epsilon: "Next people will be marrying sheep!"

Is that still the dumb argument against same sex marriage?

That and "BBBBBUT POLYGAMY!!"

If gays (in some states) are prohibited from adopting by those states laws, shouldn't they be exempt from paying school taxes?
If someone can not have kids, why should they have to pay for the 'education' of someone else's children?

swingbozo Quote 2008-12-28 11:54:41 AM
Another ghey thread on fark? yawn. Let's drag out all the old polygamy, goat, and turtle farking arguements.


When an argument is absurd on its face, it lends itself to equally absurd counter arguments to illustrate the point.

It is simultaneously fun and frustrating watching a civilization grow up.

Doctor Funkenstein: I'm not trying to stereotype or anything, but I've noticed that gay guys tend to be farking awesome with math and money. I know a few gay guys, not many, but a few. Among them, two accountants and an attorney specializing in taxation. It's weird but it seems to be a recurring theme.

My boyfriend is an accountant - I've had a six figure income for almost my entire adult life. My brother can barely keep a job longer than six months and his wife is a manager at TGI Fridays who has threatened divorce at least four times now. And they are on their third kid. God forbid a child gets exposed to a my financial secure stable loving household.

CruJones: Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

We're not so much talking about letting them adopt as we are about recognizing an existing adoption contract. Like I said, the crux of this is that Louisiana is placing caveats, like the risk of losing your children, on the freedom of movement. You feel the need to drive through their state, they want the right to take your kids away if something bad happens to the recognized parents.... oh, that and they want your federal tax dollars to pay for their roads and infrastructure, even if they purposely bully you into never using them.

FTA: Refusing to name both fathers on the birth certificate "singles out unmarried same-sex couples and their adoptive children for unequal treatment for the improper purpose of making them unequal to everyone else," said the lawsuit filed by Regina O. Matthews of New Orleans and Kenneth D. Upton Jr. of Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund Inc. of Dallas.

That's what it's all about: equal treatment under the law.

Looking forward to someone challenging why states can refuse to recognize gay marriages from other states under the U.S. Constitution Article IV, Section 1: Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

CruJones: Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

Sounds like the adoption happened in Cali, since that's where they currently reside. We do let unmarried people adopt in this state and we let them adopt outside their race, which some other states do not allow. We're pretty liberal (socially) here.

According to TFA " Louisiana law requires a new certificate when it gets an adoption decree, and the law does not include any limits or restrictions". Guess that was the basis of the judge's ruling - he read the actual law.

Click Click D'oh

Aren't Birth Certificates for the state of parentage at birth... and Adoption Certificates for the state of parentage at adoption?

When I was adopted, my birth certificate was changed to reflect my adoptive parents (I assume there is an unchanged version in a folder in a file cabinet somewhere, but who can say?). They reissued a new one with my adoptive parents' names in the spaces for my birth parents. If you don't know I am adopted, there is no way to tell the woman who raised me isn't the woman who spawned me.

bravian: Doctor Funkenstein: I'm not trying to stereotype or anything, but I've noticed that gay guys tend to be farking awesome with math and money. I know a few gay guys, not many, but a few. Among them, two accountants and an attorney specializing in taxation. It's weird but it seems to be a recurring theme.

My boyfriend is an accountant - I've had a six figure income for almost my entire adult life. My brother can barely keep a job longer than six months and his wife is a manager at TGI Fridays who has threatened divorce at least four times now. And they are on their third kid. God forbid a child gets exposed to a my financial secure stable loving household.

Adoption. Hell, get your asses to Washington first. Our straightonomics isn't working out too well.

Doctor Funkenstein: Smith, an accountant, is the family's breadwinner.

I'm not trying to stereotype or anything, but I've noticed that gay guys tend to be farking awesome with math and money. I know a few gay guys, not many, but a few. Among them, two accountants and an attorney specializing in taxation. It's weird but it seems to be a recurring theme.

It's far, far easier to be open and "out" when you have money.

It's probably not the case that gay men are better with money than their straight cohort. It's probably just that those gay men who have lots of money feel more free to be honest about their sexuality.

HTH

I guess this means that birth certificates don't have jack shiat to do with biological parentage. This is almost Swiftian in its satirical insanity.

MissDementia: CruJones: Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

Sounds like the adoption happened in Cali, since that's where they currently reside. We do let unmarried people adopt in this state and we let them adopt outside their race, which some other states do not allow. We're pretty liberal (socially) here.

According to TFA " Louisiana law requires a new certificate when it gets an adoption decree, and the law does not include any limits or restrictions". Guess that was the basis of the judge's ruling - he read the actual law.

Ok, but the reason they were denied originally was for not being married, not because they were gay. At least that's the way I read it. Somehow this got turned into a gay rights issue, but it really wasn't. Straight unmarried couples would have had this same problem.

horonto: There can only be one biological father.
Just as there can only be on biological mother.
The other father or mother can adopt later.

Louisiana is where folks too dumb for Florida are exiled to.'

Except that New York is where the two-father birth certificate came from, Mr. Genius Person. Louisiana didn't want to recognize it. Try reading the farking article before calling an entire state stupid next time and maybe you won't look like a fool.

phalamir: When I was adopted, my birth certificate was changed to reflect my adoptive parents

I don't know about other states but that's how it works in Alaska as well. The birth cert is changed to reflect the adoptive parties. I don't think they keep the original information at all. In cases of step parent adoption the state issues a new birth cert and changes the official birth place to Alaska if the child was born elsewhere and also changes the name of the natural parent to the adoptive one.

I know of at least one case where the child was the natural child of one lesbian partner and the state allowed the other partner to adopt the child just like a step parent adoption, so both of them are listed as the child's parents. They can both claim their daughter on tax forms, insurance enrollments, etc.

Nabb1: I guess this means that birth certificates don't have jack shiat to do with biological parentage.

That has always been the case. NY, for example, requires that in an IUI with donor sperm the partner of the woman getting pregnant must be on the birth certificate. Not the donor.

Nabb1: horonto: There can only be one biological father.
Just as there can only be on biological mother.
The other father or mother can adopt later.

Louisiana is where folks too dumb for Florida are exiled to.'

Except that New York California is where the two-father birth certificate came from, Mr. Genius Person. Louisiana didn't want to recognize it. Try reading the farking article before calling an entire state stupid next time and maybe you won't look like a fool.

HAH! Self-pwnage.

What I don't understand is why ANY State would allow anyone OTHER than the true and actual BIOLOGICAL parents to be listed on the OFFICIAL birth certificate. If they allow new ones to be printed up with any other names, then how the hell would you ever be able to track back to the biological parents if there were some type of emergency? The whole point of Official records are to be TRUE and ACCURATE, not convenient, politically correct, or to make somebody fuzzy and warm. I don't have a problem with them issuing some sort of other certificate to show the official parents, but not to imply that anyone else was the actual birth parents.

Just my $.02

Nabb1: Nabb1: horonto: There can only be one biological father.
Just as there can only be on biological mother.
The other father or mother can adopt later.

Louisiana is where folks too dumb for Florida are exiled to.'

Except that New York California is where the two-father birth certificate came from, Mr. Genius Person. Louisiana didn't want to recognize it. Try reading the farking article before calling an entire state stupid next time and maybe you won't look like a fool.

HAH! Self-pwnage.

"The ruling held that Louisiana's Office of Vital Records must give full faith and credit to the New York State court in which Oren Adar and Mickey Ray Smith of San Diego adopted the boy, he ruled Monday."

Indeed.

I'm all for gay adoption and gay marriage, but I don't understand putting adoptive parents (any adoptive parents, gay or straight) on a birth certificate. I thought birth certificates are supposed to record biological parents and there was a separate adoption certificate when you adopt a child? That would seem to make a lot more sense.

ceejayoz: Nabb1: I guess this means that birth certificates don't have jack shiat to do with biological parentage.

That has always been the case. NY, for example, requires that in an IUI with donor sperm the partner of the woman getting pregnant must be on the birth certificate. Not the donor.

I know. It just seems odd that when recording a live birth, the actual woman who gave birth can be removed from the birth certificate. The father's name was always more of a legal designation than an actual confirmation of biological paternity, but if you title something "Certificate of Live Birth" it seems that exclusion of a biological mother renders the title somewhat inappropriate.

Cheesus: "The ruling held that Louisiana's Office of Vital Records must give full faith and credit to the New York State court in which Oren Adar and Mickey Ray Smith of San Diego adopted the boy, he ruled Monday."

Indeed.

Heh. Had it right the first time. Oh, well, that's what sleep deprivation will do to you.

CruJones: MissDementia: CruJones: Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

Sounds like the adoption happened in Cali, since that's where they currently reside. We do let unmarried people adopt in this state and we let them adopt outside their race, which some other states do not allow. We're pretty liberal (socially) here.

According to TFA " Louisiana law requires a new certificate when it gets an adoption decree, and the law does not include any limits or restrictions". Guess that was the basis of the judge's ruling - he read the actual law.

Ok, but the reason they were denied originally was for not being married, not because they were gay. At least that's the way I read it. Somehow this got turned into a gay rights issue, but it really wasn't. Straight unmarried couples would have had this same problem.

Maybe. With a hetero couple they really wouldn't have been able to tell at a glance they were unmarried, though. Unless, of course, they require a copy of a marriage certificate when changing an adopted child's birth certificate. Which seems odd if the child is already legally adopted.

A lot of women keep their "maiden" names these days. I did. Saved time during the divorce. ;)

BeowulfSmith: I'm all for gay adoption and gay marriage, but I don't understand putting adoptive parents (any adoptive parents, gay or straight) on a birth certificate. I thought birth certificates are supposed to record biological parents and there was a separate adoption certificate when you adopt a child? That would seem to make a lot more sense.

The crux of it is that for things like passports and some other official documents/processes, they just look at the birth certificate, then check to see that the person signing is one of those listed on the birth certificate. Aside from that, the birth certificates in most states are not explicit about "mother" or "father" being the biological, it's not like they do paternity tests at the time of birth for every baby anyways.

Pocket Ninja: gay couples cruising for gock

That whole goat-chicken thing was just a setup for this five-word punchline. Admit it.

CruJones: MissDementia: CruJones: Did this have anything to do with them being gay? It seemed Louisiana doesn't let any single parents adopt, regardless of gay or straight.

Sounds like the adoption happened in Cali, since that's where they currently reside. We do let unmarried people adopt in this state and we let them adopt outside their race, which some other states do not allow. We're pretty liberal (socially) here.

According to TFA " Louisiana law requires a new certificate when it gets an adoption decree, and the law does not include any limits or restrictions". Guess that was the basis of the judge's ruling - he read the actual law.

Ok, but the reason they were denied originally was for not being married, not because they were gay. At least that's the way I read it. Somehow this got turned into a gay rights issue, but it really wasn't. Straight unmarried couples would have had this same problem.

When you find me the straight unmarried couple that Louisiana refuses to list as parents on a birth certificate simply because they aren't married, you get right back here and post all about it... This is kind of like when Republicans argued that sodomy laws weren't anti-gay because they *could* also be used to prosecute girls who take it in the pooper from their b/f... It's kind of a disingenuous representation of what's going on to pretend that this is some kind of widespread problem affecting other people too.

remus: What I don't understand is why ANY State would allow anyone OTHER than the true and actual BIOLOGICAL parents to be listed on the OFFICIAL birth certificate. If they allow new ones to be printed up with any other names, then how the hell would you ever be able to track back to the biological parents if there were some type of emergency?

Or perhaps, if you needed to establish the fact that a president-elect is a natural born citizen.