awww..cry me a river. And where's my sammich?

you could always drug 'em to the gills and park their asses in front of a television for a while.

I'm concerned about how we're going to make it when we have a kid. I am the primary breadwinner, my husband's just starting college so he can make a better living, and day care is so damn expensive. Granted, I'll only need it about six months out of the year (being a teacher is great for that), but I worry about how we're going to afford $600+ a month.

I can understand how these parents feel. If me quitting work and staying home full-time was an option, I'd do it. If my husband quitting work and staying home full-time (and going to school) was an option, I know he'd do it in a heartbeat. Just because you have your kids in day care doesn't mean you don't want to raise them yourself. Sometimes, it's the only option you have.

/just my two cents

tudorgurl: make it when we have a kid.

Wait a while..like after your guy is out of college and making more.

/my 2 cents as a dad

GaryPDX: tudorgurl: make it when we have a kid.

Wait a while..like after your guy is out of college and making more.

/my 2 cents as a dad

sometimes biology decides to run on a different schedule than someone's career plans.

Once I was old enough, I ended up as primary babysitter for my sister. Mom and Dad both worked their asses off. Yeah, it was difficult some times but we worked through it.

GaryPDX: tudorgurl: make it when we have a kid.

Wait a while..like after your guy is out of college and making more.

/my 2 cents as a dad


I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

tudorgurl: I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

My sons are 17 and 19. I'll kick their arses if they do it before age 25 and have their degrees..:) They know it to...:)

GaryPDX: tudorgurl: I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

My sons are 17 and 19. I'll kick their arses if they do it before age 25 and have their degrees..:) They know it to...:)

Well, we've waited because of my health issues and the fact that I hadn't finished my degree. Now that I have my degree and health issues are pretty much resolved, it's baby making time. He's 34, I'm 31. We can't really afford to wait much longer. I don't want to be nearly 40 and raising an infant. So, I know it's going to be difficult.

if you cant afford kids DONT HAVE THEM, in our modern society there is NO EXCUSE for having kinds unless your want to, Condoms, Birth control, etc etc..

tudorgurl: I'll only need it about six months out of the year (being a teacher is great for that), but I worry about how we're going to afford $600+ a month.

It is gonna cost you a whole hell of a lot more than that in the beginning.

The_Ancient: if you cant afford kids DONT HAVE THEM, in our modern society there is NO EXCUSE for having kinds unless your want to, Condoms, Birth control, etc etc..

Spoken like a true idiot.

nanofreak: tudorgurl: I'll only need it about six months out of the year (being a teacher is great for that), but I worry about how we're going to afford $600+ a month.

It is gonna cost you a whole hell of a lot more than that in the beginning.

I'm well aware of that. Insurance will cover all but about $6K of my expenses when I give birth (and that's with a 24 hour stay AFTER I give birth). Then, it'll cost me an additional $300 a month in health insurance to add ONE child.

I know it's expensive. Believe me, I've done the math.

tudorgurl: Well, we've waited because of my health issues and the fact that I hadn't finished my degree. Now that I have my degree and health issues are pretty much resolved, it's baby making time. He's 34, I'm 31. We can't really afford to wait much longer. I don't want to be nearly 40 and raising an infant. So, I know it's going to be difficult.

Adopt.

tudorgurl:

I'm well aware of that. Insurance will cover all but about $6K of my expenses when I give birth (and that's with a 24 hour stay AFTER I give birth). Then, it'll cost me an additional $300 a month in health insurance to add ONE child.

I know it's expensive. Believe me, I've done the math.

I meant more than 600 a month for daycare on a child less than a year old.

nanofreak: tudorgurl:

I'm well aware of that. Insurance will cover all but about $6K of my expenses when I give birth (and that's with a 24 hour stay AFTER I give birth). Then, it'll cost me an additional $300 a month in health insurance to add ONE child.

I know it's expensive. Believe me, I've done the math.

I meant more than 600 a month for daycare on a child less than a year old.

Double that and add another couple of hundred.

tudorgurl:
I'm well aware of that. Insurance will cover all but about $6K of my expenses when I give birth (and that's with a 24 hour stay AFTER I give birth). Then, it'll cost me an additional $300 a month in health insurance to add ONE child.

I know it's expensive. Believe me, I've done the math.

Well, that does it for me. The wife and I really need to rethink our position of not having kids because of the the economic and persuasive arguments made here in this thread.

/The world doesn't need another mouth to feed. Adopt if you really want a child.

FTFA: "Parents are out of work and don't have the same 8 to 5 type of job. At our center, parents create their own schedule."

Now if only it didn't take a recession for daycares to do this. One of the biggest things I've heard from my friends who have kids is the fact that they have to move around their schedule to suit the daycare's schedule. Which is just insane considering the amount of money they have to spend on daycare. My aunt quit working to raise her two kids because when it came down to it, she was only bringing home $10/week once the cost of daycare was taken out.

Figure out how to build a time machine, go back to 1965 when one income was enough to buy a house and raise a family. Yeah, that's it.

Occam's Chainsaw: tudorgurl: Well, we've waited because of my health issues and the fact that I hadn't finished my degree. Now that I have my degree and health issues are pretty much resolved, it's baby making time. He's 34, I'm 31. We can't really afford to wait much longer. I don't want to be nearly 40 and raising an infant. So, I know it's going to be difficult.

Adopt.

Age can still be an issue, even with adoption. It's hard keeping up with a toddler when you're in your twenties. Forties sounds like a friggin' nightmare. And adoption, unless you do it out of country, can take many years. Again, she says she doesn't want to be forty and raising an infant. She didn't say giving birth to an infant.

/big fan of adoption

tudorgurl: I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

Many colleges now have attached reduced-rate daycares and pre-schools, some of which are even staffed by actual education students and not out-of-work hairdressers and glorified baby sitters. Your husband may want to contact his Dean of Students Office and see if he's got any options.

eddyatwork: IF YOU CAN'T FEED THEM, DON'T BREED THEM!

Right, because once you have kids, bad economic times NEVER happen and everything is perfect rainbows and sunshine!

Hau Ruck: /The world doesn't need another mouth to feed. Adopt if you really want a child.

You know what? I want to have a child that is of myself and my husband. I am a HUGE proponent of adoption and will adopt if the biological thing doesn't work out. I guess that makes me a selfish biatch who deserves every economic heartache that'll come my way once I have kids.

I'm hoping that we become smarter, wiser and more independent people from all of this economic downtown.

Good daycare is the sign of a healthy economy where all adults are educated to the point of a high value citizen.

Get a post secondary school education, subby, you moron.

Nemo's Brother: I'm hoping that we become smarter, wiser and more independent people from all of this economic downtown.

We can only hope. Although after reading some responses on Fark, one has to wonder...

/grrrr

tudorgurl: GaryPDX: tudorgurl: make it when we have a kid.

Wait a while..like after your guy is out of college and making more.

/my 2 cents as a dad


I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

I would think that it's better to be a more stable older parent than an unstable younger one.

eddyatwork: IF YOU CAN'T FEED THEM, DON'T BREED THEM!

Right, because population decrease is great for a country. Just ask Japan.

Gee... why are blacks and latinos going to replace the White as a majority?

because they don't wait until they are 36+ to have a child.

DUH.

Nemo's Brother: I'm hoping that we become smarter, wiser and more independent people from all of this economic downtown.

Sort of like the babyboomers were?

I am a daycare center director. The hours are set not for our convenience, but to allow for two things:
1)Parents spend at least some waking hours with their child(ren)
2)Staffing/operating costs

Some parents tend to feel as though they would rather pay someone to watch their kids rather than raise them. If someone only brings home $10/week after daycare costs, maybe they should consider staying home. Then again, some of those kids are better off with us.

The_Time_Master: Gee... why are blacks and latinos going to replace the White as a majority?

because they don't wait until they are 3616+ to have a child.

FTFY

/not being totally sarcastic, for once...

susansto-helit: Occam's Chainsaw: tudorgurl: Well, we've waited because of my health issues and the fact that I hadn't finished my degree. Now that I have my degree and health issues are pretty much resolved, it's baby making time. He's 34, I'm 31. We can't really afford to wait much longer. I don't want to be nearly 40 and raising an infant. So, I know it's going to be difficult.

Adopt.

Age can still be an issue, even with adoption. It's hard keeping up with a toddler when you're in your twenties. Forties sounds like a friggin' nightmare. And adoption, unless you do it out of country, can take many years. Again, she says she doesn't want to be forty and raising an infant. She didn't say giving birth to an infant.

/big fan of adoption

As an adoptee myself, I'm also a big fan. But there's a whole host of issues here to deal with for prospeective parents.

Frist of all, if they want an infant, it will be several years. If they're willing to raise a toddler, there will be huge custody issues before any adoption is finalized. Besides, as you get older, there are more and more psycological issues to deal with.
For a couple who want to raise children, adoption is not always the best option.

I really respect people who can do it. Including my parents. That said, I will not. For some reason, biology or psycological, I, a woman about to turn 30, have no desire to raise a child. I don't understand it, I just know it's not something I want or feel that I would be good at. I donate to groups that support foster parents and adoptions, I just know it's not for me.

eddyatwork: IF YOU CAN'T FEED THEM, DON'T BREED THEM!

Why would you want to do a smart, responsible thing like that?

I can perfectly well understand losing a job or having a paycut knock out the possibility of affording day care. But why do people feel the need to change their spending habits, even if their jobs are not threatened? Especially in the area of daycare. If you are holding off having a kid because of the CURRENT economy because you can't afford day care, then you had better lay off having a kid for the next 18+ years as well.

Changing one's spending habits because of personal loss of a job or lost income is one thing. Changing one's spending habits simply because one hears about how poor the economy is is just going to make the bottom that much deeper.

I never got the point of day care. I was home by myself plenty as a child

There are strong evolutionary reasons why widespread adoption will never take place, regardless of economic pressures and how nice and honorable it is. The average person has a biological drive to reproduce and raise their own children that we as a species will never overcome (else, it would be the end of our species as we know it).

That sex drive you have? Yeah, that's your culprit. Telling someone to not have kids is just as intelligent as telling someone to not feel horny. Yeah, we can control contraception to a degree, but it won't stop the urge to reproduce.

/We are an irrational species capable of rational thought.
//That doesn't make us rational people all of the time.
///Famine is historically the only effective population control.

tudorgurl:
I know you being a parent, you have more insight in how things work. I respect that. But, that would make me at least 36 before I have my first child. No thanks. We'll do what we have to to make it. :o)

My parents were 40 when I was born. My sister is 14 years older than I am.

For everyone who says Adopt:

Good luck. She'll be nearly 40. Most won't place a kid with an "older" person. And she had health issues. Strike Two! It can take years for a kid to become available, and that's if the mother doesn't decide to take the kid back in a year or so when she's "more responsible".

Adoptalina & Madonna can walk into a country, pick out a kid, hand over some $$$ & everything is good. Everyone else is screwed.

In the meantime, kids & good people suffer.

Proctologist Iggy Poop: Recent experience: I'm a Senior Care Home administrator, and we had a group of child Xmas carolers in last week to entertain the residents. The average age of these kids was around 7-12, and they were practically all really talented. One girl, 11 or so, played the piano so well that everyone was astonished, including me. I'm sure she's got a professional musical career ahead of her, if she decides to take that path.

The punch line here? Every one of them was home-schooled.

There's only one problem with home-schooling, that I can see: that is, not every mom and dad are in a position to do it, for financial or other reasons. But it sure seems to work!

Next time, ask them about basic biology. In my experience, many homeschooled children are deficient in that area because homeschooling is a religious act.

Not all, but many.

Occam's Chainsaw: Adopt.

You realize that's like a $25-30k prospect itself these days (assuming infant)? Plus the fact the birth mother might just decide to keep it once it pops out and break the waiting parents hearts. Plus if you don't look like Ken and Barbie or don't make $500k a year, you're probably looking at a year's wait minimum.

I'm married to a nurse that works evenings (3-11). We have 3 kids.
So, I work 6-2 each day then we meet downtown and switch vehicles.
I then take my 2 girls home and wait for my son to get off the school bus.

/I have the kids from 3-bedtime after a full day's work
//she has them from morning-3 and then does a full day's work.
///it sucks but we don't pay for daycare.
////slashies working overtime.

Pope George Ringo: Figure out how to build a time machine, go back to 1965 when one income was enough to buy a house and raise a family. Yeah, that's it.

I grew up in a one income family. Lower middle class life until high school when my father made a lot more as a consultant (COBOL and AS/400 programmers were in high demand around Y2K and still are) and we moved to the brink of upper middle class. My mother raised us and sold baked goods and crafts at farmers' markets for an additional ~$100/week.

Two incomes are not needed unless you need the additional money for unnecessary luxuries.

tudorgurl: You know what? I want to have a child that is of myself and my husband. I am a HUGE proponent of adoption and will adopt if the biological thing doesn't work out. I guess that makes me a selfish biatch who deserves every economic heartache that'll come my way once I have kids.

Screw these assholes, don't let them get you down. My wife and I just had twin girls after close to three years of IUI's and IVF's, and we were looking at the prospect of something close to $1k a month for infant daycare. Luckily in our case my wife's mother is right behind us, and able to provide cheap daycare, at least until they start walking and getting into things. After that, we'll see: we think it will be financially advantageous to have us both continue working and pay for daycare, but still have to get down to brass tacks on that.

It's worth any price though, don't let anyone tell you different.

The_Ancient: if you cant afford kids DONT HAVE THEM, in our modern society there is NO EXCUSE for having kinds unless your want to, Condoms, Birth control, etc etc..

How about you don't have sex if you don't want children. No birth control is 100%. You know what makes babies. No one should pretend it's a surprise and no one should consider murder as a form of birth control. I say that because many consider abortion as just another form of birth control. Also, many people have children then an illness or some life catastrophe happens to plunge them into poverty. I really hate it when people look at poor families and assume poor choices led them there. Children are a blessing. Having them is not something that only the well off should do.

Regarding home schooled children. They are better educated and better behaved than children who go to public schools. Religious people believe in biology too. Way to display your ignorance and bigotry by stereotyping.

Maybe if both parents disn't have to work two or even three jobs EACH, then they wouldn't need daycare!

Mija: Regarding home schooled children. They are better educated and better behaved than children who go to public schools. Religious people believe in biology too. Way to display your ignorance and bigotry by stereotyping.

One of my best friends from college was homeschooled. She's smarter, better socialized and makes more money than I do, and has a far better relationship with her parents than I have with mine. She even has less religious guilt than I do! But every now and then she and I will be in a bookstore together and we'll have a conversation that goes like this:

McN: Hey, lookit! They have Jorge Luis Borges' Selected Nonfictions in paperback.
X: What's that?
McN: A collection of Borges' letters and essays about politics, religion and the arts, from the early twentieth--
X: So, basically, it's just some guy ranting about whatever pops into his head for three hundred pages?
McN: Yes. No. Listen, some of the most important nonfiction of the modern era has been just some guy ranting about--
X: Omigod omigod omigod they have Tales of Beedle the Bard!
McN: *minor facepalm*

Hence the Name...: Some parents tend to feel as though they would rather pay someone to watch their kids rather than raise them.

In my day, we called those "arcades".

/Lawn. Off.

I wont list the names, but all of you: as a stay at home dad, I have this suggestion, wait until you can afford kids to have kids.

I am a home schooling/stay at home (adpotive) mom so I am getting a kick out of these replies.

Alwaysus: I am a home schooling/stay at home (adpotive) mom so I am getting a kick out of these replies.

Adoptive too

They are better educated and better behaved than children who go to public schools.


No.

You think they are, but they aren't.

Proctologist Iggy Poop: The punch line here? Every one of them was home-schooled.

There's only one problem with home-schooling, that I can see: that is, not every mom and dad are in a position to do it, for financial or other reasons. But it sure seems to work!

I disagree. Those kids may have a talent like singing or playing the piano, but they are substantially lacking somewhere else, either socially or academically.

It works great in a small subset of the population (smaller than the current subset that are currently being homeschooled even), but do you think your average Miller Lite drinking, NASCAR watching mom and pop are capable of objectively teaching calculus, biology, history or physics?

Of all the homeschooled peers I've encountered, which is about 10 so far, homeschooling was about family embarrassment of their poverty, religious brainwashing, or exercising control over their children's entire lives. In rare cases is it ever about "superior education". The only person I've met in that situation had a mother who had an English Ph.D., and the rest would have been better off in their area's worst public school.