What a lowlife.

DNRTFA- I don't agree with Rick Warren's views on the gay commuinty but I honestly don't think he's a fundamentalist a la Robertson (yeah yeah, he's not technically a fundamentalist) or Falwell.

I think he could be reformed. Maybe I'm naive.

coco ebert: DNRTFA- I don't agree with Rick Warren's views on the gay commuinty but I honestly don't think he's a fundamentalist a la Robertson (yeah yeah, he's not technically a fundamentalist) or Falwell.

I think he could be reformed. Maybe I'm naive.

What issues do they disagree on?

DamnYankees: What issues do they disagree on?

global warming, giving of your own wealth to charitable causes, helping the poor, fighting AIDS. also, even though he is obviously an idiot when it comes to gay issues, i doubt that warren blamed the gays for 9/11 or hurricane katrina.

warren has a few redeeming qualities.

burndtdan: DamnYankees: What issues do they disagree on?

global warming, giving of your own wealth to charitable causes, helping the poor, fighting AIDS. also, even though he is obviously an idiot when it comes to gay issues, i doubt that warren blamed the gays for 9/11 or hurricane katrina.

warren has a few redeeming qualities.

In other words, he agrees with Robertson completely on social issues. Except AIDS.

Hooray?

DamnYankees: burndtdan: DamnYankees: What issues do they disagree on?

global warming, giving of your own wealth to charitable causes, helping the poor, fighting AIDS. also, even though he is obviously an idiot when it comes to gay issues, i doubt that warren blamed the gays for 9/11 or hurricane katrina.

warren has a few redeeming qualities.

In other words, he agrees with Robertson completely on social issues. Except AIDS.

Hooray?

He almost agrees with him on AIDS too. It's more of a "love the sinner hate the sin" attitude, like his attitudes toward gays. In short - his position is that AIDS victims (much like fallen preachers) have done horrible, horrible things. They deserved to get AIDS. But it is not our place to judge them. Only to help them see the error of their ways and accept God's holy judgment. But only if they renounce their sins.

The arrogance and cognitive disconnect of the faithful is limitless.

DamnYankees: In other words, he agrees with Robertson completely on social issues. Except AIDS.

i can't think of any examples of robertson actually helping the poor either.

but either way, yes hooray. no man is perfect, and he certainly is far far from it, but if he volunteers his time and money to help AIDS victims then he's still doing something good.

you don't have to like him or feel that it outweighs his negatives, but i'm sure someone who got some medicine from his charitable work would probably prefer him to someone like robertson, whose solution to AIDS is just to say it is god's punishment and they deserve it.

It'd be nice if people in politics would separate hate speech from screwing people over as two distinct things. The constitution should be strong enough to stand up to a group of idiots. Let him talk about it all he wants, just stop letting it deny other people rights. It seems like a clear enough line to me.

staplermofo: It'd be nice if people in politics would separate hate speech from screwing people over as two distinct things. The constitution should be strong enough to stand up to a group of idiots. Let him talk about it all he wants, just stop letting it deny other people rights. It seems like a clear enough line to me.

that really is the solution. you'll never rid the world of stupid bigoted people, but the system should have a buffer against them enacting their stupid bigoted ideas.

hopefully the courts recognize that there was such a buffer in california and overturn prop 8. unfortunately, that isn't going to happen in florida with prop 2.

If Obama wanted an evangelical, why didn't he choose Jim Wallis? I think he already gave a lot of concessions to the right with his cabinet picks, so why feel the need to choose Rick Warren? It's hard to deny that he has thrown the gay community under the bus, to use a tired phrase.

It shows that Obama just isn't that liberal, in fact he's quite moderate in his political temperament. And in America, moderates are what conservatives are in other Western democracies.

It's not like Obama has tried to hide how he views gays.

Rick Warren complains he's being persecuted as a Christian for saying gay marriage is the same as incest, polygamy, and pedophilia? No, he's being reminded of his own ignorance and prejudice. Warren's just playing the Christian persecution card to defend himself with the farking flocks.

/Wish Christians actually believed what Jesus did and said.
//Instead of reinforcing their hate and bigotry with Bible quotes.

staplermofo: It's not like Obama has tried to hide how he views gays.

You're correct. Obama supports civil unions for gays, not marriages. I don't agree with Obama on this. But, if we can make progress by taking baby steps, it's still progress.

Personally, I'd love to see Obama change federal guidelines, end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" with allowing gays & lesbians to openly serve in the US military, and open marriage benefits to "domestic partners," gay civil unions and/or marriages.

Glory hallelujah!

You are all Christophobes.


Hey, I love Christian people. Stop persecuting me for using my free speech. You are a furiousxgeorgeaphobe!

furiousxgeorge: Hey, I love Christian people.

one time when the christians were outside my house protesting, i gave them donuts.

/he does have a tendency to say stupid shiat, doesn't he?

I'm not a Christophobe. I love Christians. Love the religious, hate the religion.

Hey, I'm not a Christophobe. Some of my best friends are Christ.

Christophobe?

Christo's that European dude who claims to be an artist by covering up a large area with umbrellas, or all those gates in Central Park? Yeah, I kinda hate him too.

coco ebert: DNRTFA- I don't agree with Rick Warren's views on the gay commuinty but I honestly don't think he's a fundamentalist a la Robertson (yeah yeah, he's not technically a fundamentalist) or Falwell.

I think he could be reformed. Maybe I'm naive.

How about clicking the link and then getting back with us then?

I'm not in a position to rewatch and transcribe the relevant portion for you, but in essence, he says that he never compared same sex marriage to incest or pedophilia, and then they turn around and show footage of him comparing same sex marriage to incest and pedophilia.

He has three options: he can come out and say, "Yeah, I said it and I believe it, and if you have a problem with it, tough." He can say, "I said it and what I said was wrong." Or he can say, "No, I never said that, and I encourage all of my followers to boycott MSNBC for claiming that I did (so that you won't see the footage of me contradicting myself."

I'd respect the second option the most, I'd have a bit of respect if he at least manned up and stood behind what he said.

I'm expecting that he'll take the third option, like most of the preachers that I'm used to seeing.

Breederphobes

yea, he loves gay people when Obama puts the spotlight on his sorry asss. otherwise, gay people are going to hell. typical religious reich hypocrite.

Lucky for we Chritophobes he has not been around for about 2000 years.

Honestly I think the Gay Community needs to sit down and shut up on this one. Maddow is really starting to become irritating on this.

Look, Here is the deal. There are People who don't like you. Deal with it. I'm not saying you should lie down and roll over. But lets face in the past 5 years you have gained the right to fark each other without the fear of breaking the law, two states where marriage is legal among countless other things.

You need to know when to back off

So if I believe that a brother and a sister shouldn't marry and that a grown man shouldn't marry a young child I'm saying incest and pedophilia are the same thing?

I don't get the "equates with" logic.

American christians have no idea what persecution is.

HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

Bring on the lions.

/That is all

HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

I guess Catholics aren't Christians.

I say we throw the bum out and recognize that we also have a "separation of church and state" policy that should frown on bullsh*t like "invocations" using public taxpayer money.

If I had to spend eternity in Heaven with a stuck up worthless holier than thou jackasses like Rick Warren in Heaven, I'll be GLAD to be in Hell.

persecution: a program or campaign to exterminate, drive away, or subjugate a people because of their religion, race, or beliefs: the persecutions of Christians by the Romans.

So Rick Warren believes that being criticized is equivalent to being used as a human torch or being ripped apart by lions for entertainment.

Probably not...but then he shouldn't use the same term.

Persecution complex: A persecution complex is a term within psychological discourse afforded to an array of complex behaviours that specifically deal with the perception of being persecuted for various possible reasons, imagined or real.


That's more like it.

atlanta_ufo: HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

I guess Catholics aren't Christians.

According to some denominations, they aren't. It's like watching rival LARPing crews fight over who sucks more.

The pressure is getting to him. He's beginning to crack.

HotWingConspiracy: atlanta_ufo: HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

I guess Catholics aren't Christians.

According to some denominations, they aren't. It's like watching rival LARPing crews fight over who sucks more.

We're slowing taking over, we need to get Caroline Kennedy as senator :)
Totals, House and Senate:
80th Congress (1947-49) - 78 Catholics (67 reps, 11 sens)
109th (2005-06) - 153 (129 reps, 24 sens)
110th (2007-08) - 155 (130 reps, 25 sens)
111th (2009-11) - 162 (136 reps, 26 sens)

whidbey: I say we throw the bum out and recognize that we also have a "separation of church and state" policy that should frown on bullsh*t like "invocations" using public taxpayer money.

Totally agree, yet this hasn't even been part of the argument. So much for the "Christian persecution" claims. The whole argument is over WHICH Christian minister we should be inviting! Let one Muslim give an invocation, and let's see what Christian war THAT starts...

mediablitz: whidbey: I say we throw the bum out and recognize that we also have a "separation of church and state" policy that should frown on bullsh*t like "invocations" using public taxpayer money.

Totally agree, yet this hasn't even been part of the argument. So much for the "Christian persecution" claims. The whole argument is over WHICH Christian minister we should be inviting! Let one Muslim give an invocation, and let's see what Christian war THAT starts...

I'd actually love to see a different faith represented. If we actually "have" to have an "invocation" (why do we even need one? Why not get a poet like Robert Frost to set the Zeitgeist?) then it should be chosen by lottery with more than just the Judeo-Christian faith clamoring for a seat at the head table.

atlanta_ufo: HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

I guess Catholics aren't Christians.

So how are Catholics being persecuted then?

/no snark, I live in the Bible belt and I can't see anything over all the damn Baptists and Pentecostals

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

When they get heckled they think they're being "persecuted" so they get orgasms.

i don't even care about his stance on gay people. i've come to accept christian homophobia is just a fact of life - but the aspect about America's homegrown brand of christianity that I don't understand, is how it is completely acceptable to call for the overthrow of governments he disagrees with and political assassinations, and be taken completely seriously.

40 years ago, Someone like Warren would have been the first to oppose the idea of a black president. Same mentality.

Then when confronted about it, he would say "I love black people. I just don't think they should be president"

DamnYankees: coco ebert: DNRTFA- I don't agree with Rick Warren's views on the gay commuinty but I honestly don't think he's a fundamentalist a la Robertson (yeah yeah, he's not technically a fundamentalist) or Falwell.

I think he could be reformed. Maybe I'm naive.

What issues do they disagree on?

The presidential debates aside - Warren doesn't want to get that involved in politics. Falwell founded or help found several colleges for the sole purpose of "training" little Falwells and getting them in government.

/still an ars
//but people are overreacting to him

The imperial dragon loves black people, he just wants them to know their place.

Ummon: Honestly I think the Gay Community needs to sit down and shut up on this one. Maddow is really starting to become irritating on this.

Look, Here is the deal. There are People who don't like you. Deal with it. I'm not saying you should lie down and roll over. But lets face in the past 5 years you have gained the right to fark each other without the fear of breaking the law, two states where marriage is legal among countless other things.

You need to know when to back off

How dare they demand equal rights in the "Land of the Free". Don't they know that there are people who don't like them?

Ummon: Honestly I think the Gay Community needs to sit down and shut up on this one. Maddow is really starting to become irritating on this.

THIS. This is not the only subject Maddow is going all nuts about. She has become downright difficult to watch. We have bigger issues to deal with than some preacher ...

bravian: THIS. This is not the only subject Maddow is going all nuts about. She has become downright difficult to watch. We have bigger issues to deal with than some preacher ...

Bigger issues to deal with than human rights?

Ace Frehley's Ghost: atlanta_ufo: HotWingConspiracy: American christians have no idea what persecution is.

I guess Catholics aren't Christians.

So how are Catholics being persecuted then?

/no snark, I live in the Bible belt and I can't see anything over all the damn Baptists and Pentecostals

Not anymore like in past. Even when the KKK had a resurgence in the early part of this century, Catholics were included along with blacks and Jews as the reason the KKK said they were needed to protect America.

Rachel Maddow is awesome. Rick Warren is a douche bag. And Barrack Obama was an idiot to choose him.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.

(blah blah blah)

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."