Foreign troops other than the U.S. We already had an ...ahem... agreement.
I didn't think there were any left to tell the truth. When you look at this list, other than the 20 or so British troops, there really aren't thought. El Salvador? What is that like the first Burro Battalion? Austria? Is that the famous Oompah Commandos?
How much money in foreign aide is the U.S. paying these countries, because you know they aren't there because they want to be.

Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

There you go with that pre-9/11 mindset again.

haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?


The Senate wll vote to ratify the *real* treaty, which will be negotiated a month or so after this one is ripped up, pissed on, and then set aflame at around 12:01 on January 20th, 2009.

Ummmm, yah, we'll leave. Right after we get out of Germany, the Phillipines, Japan, South Korea, etc.

Nevermind. We won't leave in our lifetimes.

OregonVet: Ummmm, yah, we'll leave. Right after we get out of Germany, the Phillipines, Japan, South Korea, etc.

Nevermind. We won't leave in our lifetimes.

Phillipines. Funny you should mention the Phillipines.

Um... what are the names of our bases there again?

So... we'll be leaving Iraq right away then, is what you meant to say ;)

Has this been approved by the Iraqi Funkadelic?

General Zang: ;)

Ahem. I believe that "winking smiley" is copyrighted, my good man.

Please be so kind as to indicate that the next time you make use of it.

So they biatch and whine they want foriegn troops out of the country, but pass a legislation allowing them to stay longer?

Nice job, Lou...

The U.S.and treaties have always had -ahem- relationship problems.

haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

We're letting them vote on it over there so we don't have to vote on it over here.

Sheesh!

ka1axy: General Zang: ;)

Ahem. I believe that "winking smiley" is copyrighted, my good man.

Please be so kind as to indicate that the next time you make use of it.


"Winking Smiley"?

Oh no, no, no. That was a semi-colon, closing paragraph.

Completely different thing.

;)

/plus, we're not in Russia.

haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

Looks like we got ourselves a reader...

General Zang: Um... what are the names of our bases there again?

It took a Volcanic eruption to get us to leave Subic, don't let the mushroom cloud be your GTFO warning.

Crocoduck: haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

There you go with that pre-9/11 mindset again.

9-11 CHANGED EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!!

palelizard: Looks like we got ourselves a reader...

+1

/Whatcha readin' fer?

Oh thank god. That would have been a hasty retreat.

Just in time for Kris Kringle!

El Salvador has an army?

FYI....Don't GIS 'El Salvador Army' unless you want to see photos of bodies just lying around

haemaker: Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

Or government Ratifies Iraqi law now?

It's not a "treaty", it's only Iraqi law. We didn't promise them to keep troops there or anything.

Ed Finnerty: Just in time for Kris Kringle!

I feel bad for the guy...if he hadn't yelled first, he most likely would have pasted George in the face with that first shoe.

Now he's beat bloody and up to his neck in a septic tank...for what?

OregonVet: Ummmm, yah, we'll leave. Right after we get out of Germany, the Philippines, Japan, South Korea, etc.

Nevermind. We won't leave in our lifetimes.

I believe we left right after I wrapped up my beer and hookers tour there in 1989. There was a significant amount of pressure from the national government to leave. Mt. Pinatubo helped the Air Force decide to close Clark. Subic Bay wasn't needed as the Soviets were leaving Cam Rahn Bay (mostly).

haemaker: Wait, this is a contract in writing between two or more political authorities (as states or sovereigns) formally signed by representatives duly authorized by the state. So when does our Senate vote to ratify it?

Oh silly me, reading the constitution again. Sorry.

It's not between two or more political authorities. Its a one sided agreement that says Iraq will allow it. There is no other part to it that lays out responsibilities enforced on the US. It's not a contract.

I can pass a law that Saudi Arabia will give me 8 trillion dollars, but just because I do that doesn't make it so Saudi Arabia has to give me 8 trillion dollars. That's the difference.

Well, all of the drama in Iraq about getting rid of the evil ulooj and the throwing of shoes and all of that is theater for the Iraqi masses. The government doesn't want the foreign troops to leave. They'll be there for a long time to ensure stability, and everyone who thinks about the matter seriously understands that. The war is over and Iraq is in the nation-building/rebuilding phase now. American forces will be stationed there for many years, and it's no big deal.

Why would they want them to leave?

and have a free pair of shoes on us!

Iraqi parliament now has to face the thornier issue of whether to allow sand in their terrain anymore.

AmazingRuss: Ed Finnerty: Just in time for Kris Kringle!

I feel bad for the guy...if he hadn't yelled first, he most likely would have pasted George in the face with that first shoe.

Now he's beat bloody and up to his neck in a septic tank...for what?

Well, he did it for the satisfaction of doing it... so he has that.

Also, if he survives captivity, he'll be a rock star across the entire Middle East, and large parts of Europe, South America, and Berkeley.

He's a journalist... and any book he writes after his release is a guaranteed best seller across 2/3rds of the world.

Which'll more than help pay for the physcial therapy for his two broken legs, broken arm, and 10 busted ribs.

Curse my limited internet access at work! Someone 'shop the Ha Ha guy with "They think they're in charge!!" and I can die happy.

Back and to the left.
Back and to the left.

Bag of Hammers, you are now my hero, with all rights (none) and privileges (also none) that come with it.

Also, everyone here thinks I'm insane because even though I pÍctured it in my head, I still lol'd.

canyoneer: Well, all of the drama in Iraq about getting rid of the evil ulooj and the throwing of shoes and all of that is theater for the Iraqi masses. The government doesn't want the foreign troops to leave. They'll be there for a long time to ensure stability, and everyone who thinks about the matter seriously understands that. The war is over and Iraq is in the nation-building/rebuilding phase now. American forces will be stationed there for many years, and it's no big deal.

Al-Maliki's government will last for a maximum of six months after the US pulls out most of the American combat troops.

The only thing keeping Al-Maliki's extremely-shaky hold on his coalition government, is the fact that every time his opponents in Parlaiment try to hold meetings, there tend to coincidentally be raids in the area by US troops.

The latest arests in the interior ministry show Al-Malikii's desperation.... acuusing anyone who works to form a rival political party as being a "coup plotter". His own personal milita isn't large enough, and his political support among the population isn't strong enough, to continue trying to be an immitation Saddaam.

So, without the US Army backing him up, Al-Maliki is toast. And... of course... the longer he backs a continued foreign occupation of his own country, the more likely that he'll be removed from office.

As for the shoe thrower being "theater", you're missing the point. The Iraqi people don't like being occupied by a foreign military, and the longer this occupation goes on, the more we'll lose the support of even moderate non-jihadists there.

In the end, the Iraqi people will vote to remove Al-Maliki from office, and replace him with folks who will tell the US to leave.

canyoneer: Well, all of the drama in Iraq about getting rid of the evil ulooj and the throwing of shoes and all of that is theater for the Iraqi masses. The government doesn't want the foreign troops to leave. They'll be there for a long time to ensure stability, and everyone who thinks about the matter seriously understands that. The war is over and Iraq is in the nation-building/rebuilding phase now. American forces will be stationed there for many years, and it's no big deal.

That's why we should set a time table to leave because right now we manufacture the stability and the Iraqis don't try to make the country stable themselves.

If we say we will by out by X it will force them to get their own shiat together. It's like telling a kid at age 21 we are kicking you out so they get their shiat together.

Maybe after close to 5 years of explaining this to you, you will start to get it.

Gumercules

9-11 CHANGED EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!!

It would have been hard to handle it any worse than we did.

What an embarrassment.

studebaker hoch: Back and to the left.
Back and to the left.


I'm just gonna break the wrist and walk away.
Break the wrist....and walk away.

First thing I thought of

canyoneer: American forces will be stationed there for many years, and it's no big deal.

Of course it is.

Both the Iraqi and American people overwhelmingly want us out of there. And if the new administration doesn't start ordering the pullout in a few years as promised, then they will have scored just as big in terms of failure as the present adminstration.

spickus:

I believe we left right after I wrapped up my beer and hookers tour there in 1989. There was a significant amount of pressure from the national government to leave. Mt. Pinatubo helped the Air Force decide to close Clark. Subic Bay wasn't needed as the Soviets were leaving Cam Rahn Bay (mostly).

We left in 91, right after I got done shoveling volcanic ash away from the beer and hookers.

Pinatubo trashed the entire city of Oolongopo, and did hundreds of dollars worth of damage.

So the Iraqi parliament doesn't listen to their constituents either, eh?

General Zang: "So, without the US Army backing him up, Al-Maliki is toast."

True enough, and it would also be true of any other national government in Baghdad. Furthermore, the U.S. could unleash the Awakening Councils at any time against any inimical central government and drive it from Baghdad. I doubt it'll come to that. Iraq has been quasi-partitioned into semi-autonomous ethnic/tribal regions with the U.S. functioning as a sort of skeleton version of unifying central authority. It will take years to rebuild a modern, stand-alone state that can impose its writ on the entire territory of Iraq no matter what. Large scale technical and logistical and military support will be needed for some time as the state establishes itself.

It's a very delicate situation, but the facts indicate that Iraq is becoming more stable by the month, which seems to me is in everyone's best interest. I don't foresee the situation being radically altered any time soon, and the incoming president will quickly grasp that stability is priceless in the circumstances. He will do little to rock the boat in the short or even medium term. He's a smart guy, and I reckon he figured all this out months ago.

whidbey: "Both the Iraqi and American people overwhelmingly want us out of there."

Well, Iraqis commonly believe that Jews drink baby's blood, that the "evil eye" will cause zits, and that childless women and blue-eyed people shouldn't be allowed attend birth celebrations lest harm come to the infant. They are also ganged up into oddball religious sects and sub-ethnicities and factions based on ridiculous, piddling differences - so much so that they'd rather have their own sh*t running down the center of the street than cooperate enough to build a working sewer system.

On the other hand, the American people overwhelmingly thought the housing bubble would last forever, think Oprah Winfrey is wise, and believe that extraterrestrials in flying saucers regularly visit the Earth. 80% of them probably couldn't even find Iraq on a map of the world.

In fact, American public opinion is a perfect anti-bellwether on Iraq policy especially. Before the war Americans thought invading was a swell idea, when it wasn't. Now most Americans think pulling our forces out as soon as possible is the right idea, when it isn't. Frankly, the American people are clueless dumbsh*ts when it comes to Iraq. Who cares what they think? They're always wrong.

canyoneer: General Zang: "So, without the US Army backing him up, Al-Maliki is toast."

True enough, and it would also be true of any other national government in Baghdad. Furthermore, the U.S. could unleash the Awakening Councils at any time against any inimical central government and drive it from Baghdad. I doubt it'll come to that. Iraq has been quasi-partitioned into semi-autonomous ethnic/tribal regions with the U.S. functioning as a sort of skeleton version of unifying central authority. It will take years to rebuild a modern, stand-alone state that can impose its writ on the entire territory of Iraq no matter what. Large scale technical and logistical and military support will be needed for some time as the state establishes itself.

It's a very delicate situation, but the facts indicate that Iraq is becoming more stable by the month, which seems to me is in everyone's best interest. I don't foresee the situation being radically altered any time soon, and the incoming president will quickly grasp that stability is priceless in the circumstances. He will do little to rock the boat in the short or even medium term. He's a smart guy, and I reckon he figured all this out months ago.



The bottom line is that the only stability in Iraq will have to come from an Iraqi government that has the support of the majority of the population, and which isn't propped up by foreign troops and which doesn't have corporate mercenaries wandering around shooting up the place, and which also doesn't serve as a magnet for Jihadis to wander in and blow stuff up.

If we're there for a year, ten years, or a hundred years.... stability will be the thing that happens in the year or two after we've left.

canyoneer: Well, Iraqis commonly believe that Jews drink baby's blood, that the "evil eye" will cause zits, and that childless women and blue-eyed people shouldn't be allowed attend birth celebrations lest harm come to the infant. They are also ganged up into oddball religious sects and sub-ethnicities and factions based on ridiculous, piddling differences - so much so that they'd rather have their own sh*t running down the center of the street than cooperate enough to build a working sewer system.

Right. So that means they can't formulate an opinion like "get the hell out of my country." Nice. The Iraqis are worthless savages to you. Good angle on that one.

On the other hand, the American people overwhelmingly thought the housing bubble would last forever, think Oprah Winfrey is wise, and believe that extraterrestrials in flying saucers regularly visit the Earth. 80% of them probably couldn't even find Iraq on a map of the world.

Right. So that means they can't formulate an opinion like "get the hell out of some country we don't belong in." Nice. Your fellow Americans are worthless idiots to you incapable of common sense. Good angle on that one.

In fact, American public opinion is a perfect anti-bellwether on Iraq policy especially. Before the war Americans thought invading was a swell idea, when it wasn't

Not really.

Approximately 2 out of 3 respondents wanted the government to wait for the UN inspections to end, and only 31% supported using military force immediately

Why do you hate democracy, canyoneer?

Oh, but it's "no big deal" we're going to continue keeping troops in some country we don't belong in. That's what you think the American people should be touting.

canyoneer: Well, Iraqis commonly believe that Jews drink baby's blood, that the "evil eye" will cause zits, and that childless women and blue-eyed people shouldn't be allowed attend birth celebrations lest harm come to the infant.

Nice. They believe none of these things. They're the most educated country in the entire Middle East, or used to be, before the USA illegally invaded them and threw their country into the toilet.

Keep spouting propaganda. While you make hilarious inaccurate comments, I'll give you an accurate one : Most Americans believe they're the good guys, when the overwhelming majority of the world thinks the exact opposite.

The people HIT by the club tend to remember it more than the people doing the hitting.

If you could travel back in time to 1939, and ask the German population if they thought that their policies were "evil", they'd laugh at you. 4 years later, they'd hang their heads in shame.

Start exercising that neck, boy.

canyoneer: whidbey: "Both the Iraqi and American people overwhelmingly want us out of there."

Well, Iraqis commonly believe that Jews drink baby's blood, that the "evil eye" will cause zits, and that childless women and blue-eyed people shouldn't be allowed attend birth celebrations lest harm come to the infant. They are also ganged up into oddball religious sects and sub-ethnicities and factions based on ridiculous, piddling differences - so much so that they'd rather have their own sh*t running down the center of the street than cooperate enough to build a working sewer system.

On the other hand, the American people overwhelmingly thought the housing bubble would last forever, think Oprah Winfrey is wise, and believe that extraterrestrials in flying saucers regularly visit the Earth. 80% of them probably couldn't even find Iraq on a map of the world.

In fact, American public opinion is a perfect anti-bellwether on Iraq policy especially. Before the war Americans thought invading was a swell idea, when it wasn't. Now most Americans think pulling our forces out as soon as possible is the right idea, when it isn't. Frankly, the American people are clueless dumbsh*ts when it comes to Iraq. Who cares what they think? They're always wrong.

While this is, for the most part, true; my dusty memories have you supporting the invasion loudly and proudly when there was time to not do it (or at least not fark it up so royally).

Even assuming that's wrong, this is a problem for me. The American public did this, and any of the "hoo-ahh! Let's kill sum irakeys!" who are asked these days tend to lie and claim they didn't. If the American public (which supported the invasion) cannot admit they were the reason the invasion happened how the fark are they going to learn from their mistakes?

As for Iraq, they need Rudy Guiliani-style fascism to clean up the streets while they use oil money to rebuild their tattered infrastructure. EVERYTHING that keeps them from doing these things is political BS, be it Al-Sadr wanting more Allah in government or "honor killings."

This is why America had a habit of installing strongmen instead of democratic governments in the countries is "colonized" during the Cold War. Strongman dictators can get shiat done, then burn it all down because they were too selfish and human to NOT be corrupted by the power given.

The last thing America wants in Iraq is democracy.

Name me one single country that the USA has "brought democracy to" in the last 50 years.

I can name you a half dozen countries in which the USA has actively OVERTHOWN democracies and installed dictatorships.

jakomo002: The last thing America wants in Iraq is democracy.

Name me one single country that the USA has "brought democracy to" in the last 50 years.

I can name you a half dozen countries in which the USA has actively OVERTHOWN democracies and installed dictatorships.

Please stop hating America.

Ed Finnerty: Just in time for Kris Kringle!

That's a sweet dodge by Bush. That was a fast shoe.

TheBigJerk: If the American public (which supported the invasion) cannot admit they were the reason the invasion happened how the fark are they going to learn from their mistakes?

The American people did not support the invasion the way BushCo planned it, that's what the link I posted showed.

The American people wanted more proof, and Bush lied to get his way. The public was swept up in the anti-terrorism frenzy after 9/11 and we were duped.