What do you call a 1000 lesbians with guns? Militia Etheridge.

I get the impression that Rick Warren isn't a bad guy at all, even with his views against homosexuality. I read about this guy and he seems to have focused on the Jesus who saved the adulterer from being stoned, rather than Paul who advocated excommunication for sexual immorality. Seems like the kind of fundamentalist I could invite over for dinner, have a solid conversation with, and feel good I met him. Even though I wouldn't exactly agree with him.

Seems exactly like the kind of guy who should represent the fundamentalist evangelical movement at Obama's inauguration.

Well if she saying we should chill, I'd be inclined to go along with that. I totally respect her.

Still, it's annoying that gay rights is still considered something "quaint" and deserving of the back burner in lieu of "real issues. Like there are so many things more important than civil rights.

whidbey: Well if she saying we should chill, I'd be inclined to go along with that. I totally respect her.

Still, it's annoying that gay rights is still considered something "quaint" and deserving of the back burner in lieu of "real issues. Like there are so many things more important than civil rights.

I don't think it's that, per se. To me it's simple. Love is a human right. I don't need to think about if homosexuality is driven by genetics or is a "choice". I only need to know what I have learned to be true from my gay friends I've had through the years, that the love they experience is just as powerful and life changing as the love I experience. With that being true, they should have all the same rights that I have when it comes to contractually binding that relationship in our society.

There is a branch of fundamentalism in this country that's heavily influence by modernism. Ironically so, since fundamentalism rose to fight modernism represented in the form of the writings of Wellhausen, Noth, et al. This branch of fundamentalism is going through it's own modernistic crisis as we speak. They want to do good work here, even if God will later condemn those they helped later. It creates a paradox, where they see a problem with things like how homosexuals are treated, but feel that doing something about it might cause God to look down upon them. Some chose to look at homosexuals in the same light that Jesus looked at the adulterer being stoned. Condemn the sin, but LOVE the sinner

I'm willing to bet this guy Warren, if you actually got to speak to him, isn't a bad guy. Deep down inside he wants homosexuals to have loving lifetime relationships with one another, if only so that they can find some meaning in this scary world. While at the same time fearing that they are condemning their mortal soul to eternal punishment. Somethings aren't simple.

I really get the feeling that I would like this guy, a lot.

I was driving back home (Atlanta from New Orleans) on a business trip early one Sunday morning. As I often do on such trips, I found the local NPR stations along the way, and discovered Krista Tippett's Speaking of Faith (Pops).

She was interviewing Rick Warren and his wife. I'm pretty sure she has a podcast of the full interview on the website somewhere. Unlike some of these megachurch pastors, they actually seem to do something with their ministry to help people, not just bankroll a fancy lifestyle in the name of God.

I also found a new favorite program on NPR.

Unobtanium: I was driving back home (Atlanta from New Orleans) on a business trip early one Sunday morning. As I often do on such trips, I found the local NPR stations along the way, and discovered Krista Tippett's Speaking of Faith (Pops).

She was interviewing Rick Warren and his wife. I'm pretty sure she has a podcast of the full interview on the website somewhere. Unlike some of these megachurch pastors, they actually seem to do something with their ministry to help people, not just bankroll a fancy lifestyle in the name of God.

I also found a new favorite program on NPR.

So you're saying they don't tell people 'send your money to God,' whereupon they give you their address?

whidbey: Well if she saying we should chill, I'd be inclined to go along with that. I totally respect her.

Still, it's annoying that gay rights is still considered something "quaint" and deserving of the back burner in lieu of "real issues. Like there are so many things more important than civil rights.

Yeah, because those who disagree with you should be put to death rather than participate in any act of common humanity or hope, right?

Does *every single thing* have to be gay rights ?

So, how will NASA's moon plans effect gay rights?

The starving children of the Sudan - how many of them are in the closet?

Does the one-child policy in China create an onerous environment for children who want to 'come out'? how about their parents who want to 'come out' ?

How does the collapse on wall street and the theft of billion by unscrupulous pricks shift and change when seen through the lens of gender identity and transsexualism?

Does being a She-male disqualify me from, say, holding a senate seat or being a secretary of State?

Will the collapse of the US credit market influence the struggle to overturn the constitutional amendment in California banning the recognition of gay marriages?

Does gay adoption decrease my carbon footprint?

According to some, homosexuality was responsible for 9/11. What kind of position do you think the hijackers were having sex in that it jammed the controls that badly and left them unable to rectify the situation in a timely manner?

Is Sean Penn Portraying Harvey Milk as "gay enough"? Would it be more convincing if he had a menage scene with Jude Law and Ashton Kutcher?

oh, wait . that last one might be all about gayness. My bad.

I don't see
nothing wrong
with a little
lezzie grind

*AND* she wrote a song about big gay Al's big gay planet an inconvenient truth.


Here's the real inconvenient truth, the Right Wing media is pushing this disunity on the left nonsense to try and define the debate, much like they have 30 years.

There are a few people that give a shiat about Rick Warren, much less Melissa Etheridge, but in the current vacuum, the media *must* fall back to its tired and true stereotypes and idiocy. They don't function well without their boogie men to prop up their Right Wing narrative.

One can only hope they go broke.

rubi_con_man:

Yeah, 8<snip>8

I think it's pretty gay that you twisted whidbey's argument in such a way.

So you're saying they don't tell people 'send your money to God,' whereupon they give you their address?
Somewhere recently I read that Warren donates 90% of his income to organizations that attempt to wipe out hunger and/or AIDS. While I disagree with his stance on many issues, I do not put him in the same category as many of the hate filled fundies.

Melissa Ethridge assumes that by working with MPAC (Muslim Public Affairs Council) that she's furthering her cause/agenda. She's being used.

Some of MPAC's Anti-Israeli WHARBGARBL

How MPAC and CAIR are alike.

She's an idjit. Who cares about her and Warren, what concerns me is her popularity being used to mainstream groups that fund/support radical Muslim terrorist groups.

Unobtanium: I was driving back home (Atlanta from New Orleans) on a business trip early one Sunday morning. As I often do on such trips, I found the local NPR stations along the way, and discovered Krista Tippett's Speaking of Faith (Pops).

I also heard one show (on Rosh Hashanna sp?) and was instantly hooked. Good stuff.

Rick Warren says that gay people are morally bad and lumps homosexuality together with pedophilia and incest. The gays believe that as hate speech. Obama says he wants to be inclusive of everyone with every idea. Therefore, the only way for Obama to make it acceptable to keep the Warren inaugural speech is to add a Nazi skinhead speaker and a KKK speaker.

Here's something else that shouldn't be on Fark: a video of Penn Jillette talking about a man who gave him a bible.

So you're saying they don't tell people 'send your money to God,' whereupon they give you their address?

I have no idea. His church is in Southern California and I don't live there. I had never heard of him until his book (which I have not read) hit the mainstream. Their church has a website, which on first inspection, doesn't put that kind of thing up very prominently.

No matter what people think about the "marriage" tag, the box I check on my 1040 to get denote relationship status for me and my wife should be the same as two other people who have a committed relationship and are of the same gender.

And in the hospital, they shouldn't have to sign five forms where we have to sign just one form.

/nuf ced

He is a young earth creationist. Which means he is an idiot.

Just another liberal finding out that all Christians and Muslims aren't wackos.

So you're saying they don't tell people 'send your money to God,' whereupon they give you their address?

I have no idea. His church is in Southern California and I don't live there. I had never heard of him until his book (which I have not read) hit the mainstream. Their church has a website, which on first inspection, doesn't put that kind of thing up very prominently.

Rick Warren does not accept a salary from Saddleback Church. In fact, once his book "The Purpose Driven Life" became a multi million sales phenomenon, and he began receiving royalties, Warren went back into his records and computed how much Saddleback had paid him since the day he started the church and refunded his salary to the church.
His previous book: The Purpose Driven Church models how a New Testament church should function and it's also how Saddleback functions. Their ministries are global and are focused on touching lives with love and healing.
Warren has beliefs around which he models his life and beliefs he has been called to teach others. He's no Fred Phelps when he shares those beliefs, but rather the ministries he or his church have started reach out to folks in trouble. You don't draw 20,000 active members and have the kind of life work that is the testimony of Warren's life by by preaching hate - especially in Southern California.
It's really a shame that bigots most often only spew hate when they encounter those with whom they disagree rather than to attempt to understand. This goes for bigots on the right and the left. Specifically fundamental to liberal causes was the desire to be heard with tolerance and understanding. Its unfortunate that many on the left don't seem to want to practice what they preach. So kudos to MS Etheridge for taking the time to understand and share what she has learned. It seems that she has learned what Pastor Warren knows: That people will differ, and try to persuade one another, but it can be done civilly, without anger and hateful speech. Maybe her voice and stature can help dial down the invective a notch or two.

Obama is friendly with people who drive the right or left into hate orgies. Should be an entertaining presidency. Obama seems like someone who would make a good friend.

Within two decades I expect most mega-churches like Warren's to go ahead and cease to define homosexuality as a sin. It's simply a demographic switch, and most large churches are very interested in keeping the pews full. The demographics have to do with Gen-X and Gen-Y and their overwhelming support for homosexual lifestyles. As the older generation dies off, the business leaders in these large churches (yes, most of them are run by successful businessmen), will become very pragmatic in their decision to keep the pews full. Most here on fark think churches are stagnant and never change, nothing could be further from the truth. They grow and decline, change and stay the same, just like any other large institution. Just take a look at the music in most Evangelical churches today compared to 40 years ago. People demanded soft rock concerts at church, and the "seeker sensitive" churches complied.

On the theological side, one thing I've always wondered is the issue of adultery and pre-marital sex in regards to homosexuality. As far as I know, the large churches like Episcopalians who accept homosexuality are still against pre-marital sex and adultery. If gays can marry, it opens a new category of sin for them because pre-marital sex is then forbidden, one would think. Or perhaps all sex outside of incest and pedophilia will be allowed? I just can't imagine even a liberal church being OK with members having a swinging party or orgy Saturday night and then coming into church and taking communion.

modestlivinglegend: Rick Warren says that gay people are morally bad and lumps homosexuality together with pedophilia and incest. The gays believe that as hate speech.

Then the gays don't understand what "hate" speech is. Someone saying they disagree with your lifestyle and that you shouldn't live the way you do isn't hate; if it were, mocking farkers for living in their mothers' basements would be hate speech.

LibertyFirst:

I agree churches are in a constant state of evolution. It will be interesting to see how churches deal with the quickening national interest in homosexual rights. While I don't think the comparison between gay rights and the civil rights of ethnic minorities is fully valid, a large portion of the population views them as exactly the same thing. We'll see how that effects church teachings and philosophy.

As a Christian, I believe the gay rights question provides us with another challenge regarding our view of the Holy Spirit and the challenge to remember that we all are sinners. Love was the greatest of all things, according to Christ. It is easy to love someone who sees the world just like you. The challenge comes to love someone who sees the world differently.

With regard to Obama and Warren, neither will be popular with the hardcore right or left with this decision. I think that is a good thing! I also think Obama's community organizer-view of the world is all about his faith. It will be very interesting to see how he applies the principles he developed working with the poor to the managing of the entire government. It can't be any worse than the mismanagement we've seen over the last several years.

"Maybe in our anger, as we consider marches and boycotts, perhaps we can consider stretching out our hands," she wrote. "Maybe instead of marching on his church, we can show up en mass and volunteer for one of the many organizations affiliated with his church that work for HIV/AIDS causes all around the world."


Fantastic idea, Melissa. It would show his congregation that gay people are just like them.

I can't get upset about this. I was born and raised a non-believer, and all my life, I have understood that when there is some kind of big public function, it makes the god-botherers feel better if a preacher gets up and says a few words. I see no harm in it whatsoever, and it really has nothing to do with me. And as far as what kind of preacher it is, or what particular words he says, I couldn't care less - all that stuff sounds the same to me anyway.

Warren has used his tremendous tax-free clout to keep a certain group of people from having the same rights as his flock because of their personal religious beliefs. If he were to describe a black man having a child with a white woman as something akin to incest or pedophilia, I suspect it would be less okay with everyone. As to the civil union versus marriage thing, again, it wasn't really cool with the African American community to settle for "seperate but equal" drinking fountains. Although I voted Obama/Biden, I was never happy with their assertions of being "supportive of gay rights" yet not in favor of the legality of gay marriage.

Warren has stated that his beliefs on homosexuality, creationism, stem cell research, abortion and other issues are "non-negotiable." He accused Michael Schivo of wanting to pull the plug on his wife to keep her from "saying things." Warren has said the difference between him and James Dobson is a matter of tone.

You can be completely against the concept of gay marriage because of your religious beliefs but when you try to force legislation to keep others of different beliefs from exercising those rights I can no longer think of you as "open minded" or "tolerant."

Don't be fooled by the fuzziness or the Polynesian print shirts.

otherginger: Warren has used his tremendous tax-free clout to keep a certain group of people from having the same rights as his flock because of their personal religious beliefs.

I think churches and non-profits (like GLAAD which gave something like $50,000 to support voting NO on Prop 8) should pay taxes like the rest of us to support the infrastructure and other things that government provides. If they are giving away most of their money to those that need help, then what is taxed should be low. Plus, the added benefit of more people and groups shouting for lower taxes and more oversight in government spending.

Am I on fark?

where's the "sky wizard" whargarble and "Christians are stupid" crap.

Way too much nice nice!

/stupid sky wizard people.
//stupid non-sky wizard people

FreeFromGreen: Am I on fark?

where's the "sky wizard" whargarble and "Christians are stupid" crap.

Way too much nice nice!

/stupid sky wizard people.
//stupid non-sky wizard people

Stupid Flanders.

Whatever keeps her from singing, I approve.

FreeFromGreen: Am I on fark?

where's the "sky wizard" whargarble and "Christians are stupid" crap.

Way too much nice nice!

/stupid sky wizard people.
//stupid non-sky wizard people

Disagreeing with something Obama did is just too much for a lot of people.

Warren is Obama approved. Fall in line.

Spade: Disagreeing with something Obama did is just too much for a lot of people.

Warren is Obama approved. Fall in line.

Actually, a lot of people who are Obama supporters are very upset about this pick. I'm not in that category. I think Mr. Warren seems like a very thoughtful person, and willing to reassess his views on things, unlike a good number of evangelicals and fundamentalists.

FTFA: "...Warren...told her he regretted a sermon he delivered to his congregation in which he mentioned the anti-gay marriage measure Prop. 8, incest and pedophiles in the same breath."

I still disagree with many of his positions, but he doesn't appear to be a hateful ideologue. I think we need to engage each other in discussion, rather than standing on opposite sides of some line hurling insults at each other. And I think that's exactly why Obama picked him for the invocation.

Obama appears to be the kind of person who does what he thinks is right and/or most effective, rather than what will placate his "side".

/submitter

FTFA: "Maybe in our anger, as we consider marches and boycotts, perhaps we can consider stretching out our hands," she wrote. "Maybe instead of marching on his church, we can show up en mass and volunteer for one of the many organizations affiliated with his church that work for HIV/AIDS causes all around the world."

Very good words.

When people know gay couples they are less likely to be afraid of them.

I'd have more respect for Etheridge is she had never covered "Merry Christmas/War Is Over".

Some songs should never be covered. And her cover is just out and out trbl. It actually makes the Celine Dion cover of same seem artistic.

That said, it's pretty cool how Etheridge is taking a different tack than outrage against Warren and his message.

I'm as crass, opinionated and hardcore as any other Farker- and am too pleasantly surprised that this thread didn't go barreling off the tracks into hateandsnide territory. Not an ardent supporter of Rick Warren, but agree with other posters here....I give him credit for being thoughtful and a generally decent man. I don't lump him in with 99.9% of celebrity evangelists.

otherginger: Warren has used his tremendous tax-free clout to keep a certain group of people from having the same rights as his flock because of their personal religious beliefs. If he were to describe a black man having a child with a white woman as something akin to incest or pedophilia, I suspect it would be less okay with everyone. As to the civil union versus marriage thing, again, it wasn't really cool with the African American community to settle for "seperate but equal" drinking fountains. Although I voted Obama/Biden, I was never happy with their assertions of being "supportive of gay rights" yet not in favor of the legality of gay marriage.

Warren has stated that his beliefs on homosexuality, creationism, stem cell research, abortion and other issues are "non-negotiable." He accused Michael Schivo of wanting to pull the plug on his wife to keep her from "saying things." Warren has said the difference between him and James Dobson is a matter of tone.

You can be completely against the concept of gay marriage because of your religious beliefs but when you try to force legislation to keep others of different beliefs from exercising those rights I can no longer think of you as "open minded" or "tolerant."

Don't be fooled by the fuzziness or the Polynesian print shirts.

Exactly what kind of "tax-free clout" does Warren have? Does he draw a salary from Saddleback that is tax-free? Is he not paying taxes on the royalties from his books? The church may have clout over it's members, and it may be tax-exempt, but the church itself has more people than just Warren doing work for them.