I take comfort in the fact that I will more than likely be able to piss on that bastard's grave.

If the records are his, does he have to refund his salary?

Marcus Aurelius: I take comfort in the fact that I will more than likely be able to piss on that bastard's grave.

pfft.
he'll never die.

Anyone else think the National Archive and the GAO both need some sort of independent enforcement body? Trusting the executive branch to keep itself in check is a mistake.

Marcus Aurelius: I take comfort in the fact that I will more than likely be able to piss on that bastard's grave.

I have a bottle of Arrogant Bastard Ale reserved for the time Cheney is indicted, arrested and/or dies.

He just doesn't want anyone to know he has been working on a new car to fix the American auto industry.

I think Cheney shoudl be water boarded!

Don't you people get it? It's been eight years, how long does it take you to catch on? This administration answers to NOBODY! We have had a ONE BRANCH government with NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Do you REALLY expect that to change just because they have left office?

Hey Bushbots, how are you going to defend this one? I'm honestly curious if any of you try, or just pretend this thread doesn't exist.

GAT_00: Hey Bushbots, how are you going to defend this one? I'm honestly curious if any of you try, or just pretend this thread doesn't exist.

I expect deflection. They'll speculate on what it would be like if Obama did the same thing and then get angry over their own scenario and start raging about how unfair it is that we focus on Cheney at a time like this.

Mordant: GAT_00: Hey Bushbots, how are you going to defend this one? I'm honestly curious if any of you try, or just pretend this thread doesn't exist.

I expect deflection. They'll speculate on what it would be like if Obama did the same thing and then get angry over their own scenario and start raging about how unfair it is that we focus on Cheney at a time like this.

Or they just won't show up here at all.

Weaver95: Or they just won't show up here at all.

Come to think of it, while many people have defended Bush, I don't recall anyone ever defending Cheney...except that guy who he shot in the face.

PoopStain: Depending on what is being challenged, Cheney may be able to decide. No one wrote it into law that he can't.

I'm down for a re-write from the ground up, with the only things classified being "hot" intelligence and the locations of nuclear weaponry.

If our government was working the way it was supposed to, there would be nothing to hide. I mean after all, that was the argument they used on US to pass the PATRIOT Act, wasn't it? Something like "If you're not a criminal you have nothing to worry about"?

/what goes around, fothermuckers

Cheney has billions of your tax dollars at his disposal to make sure he gets exactly what he wants.

Sad, but what can we do about it?

PoopStain: Depending on what is being challenged, Cheney may be able to decide. No one wrote it into law that he can't.

Being considered a "bushbot" by many here let me be the first to say that this shait needs to be rewritten from the ground up. Executive needs to be accountable and Congress needs to be accountable pure and simple.

/I just really don't like the idea of politicians covering each others arses.

For anyone with the interesting insight create to their own alternate security stamp/level of "Treated as Top Secret/SCI", this is just expected behavior.

/Now what will be done to stop it?

Is it January 20th yet?

cheney claims lots of things. it's kinda his gig.

I get the feeling that he would be an evil dictator if he had the chance....oh wait, he is.

I am sure that a lot of these documents contain sensitive information regarding the falsification of intelligence and the intentional mismanagement of our war efforts, for the maximization private profits.

Heavy stuff that may shine light on all of the corruption that ran rampant in his administration.

I think Cheney should destroy what ever he can, or else he may face potential prosicution.

Britney Spear's Speculum: Is it January 20th yet?

Yea like suddenly all this shait will go away. HAH. Any stupid precident Cheney begins now, you can bet the Oman's team will be using later. That's why setting "precident" is such a bad thing even if it's your guy doing it.

/yea I know "HEIL SPELLING" - I can't spell worth a shait.

The guy at the end of the thread: I am sure that a lot of these documents contain sensitive information regarding the falsification of intelligence and the intentional mismanagement of our war efforts, for the maximization private profits.

Heavy stuff that may shine light on all of the corruption that ran rampant in his administration.

I think Cheney should destroy what ever he can, or else he may face potential prosicution.

No, he won't. Congress and the new Obama administration aren't going to do anything about this or any other abuses of executive power. Congress (Dems included) was complicit in a lot of the decisions taken anyway.

The guy at the end of the thread: I am sure that a lot of these documents contain sensitive information regarding the falsification of intelligence and the intentional mismanagement of our war efforts, for the maximization private profits.

Entirely unrelated to the thread at hand, but the laws need to be rewritten so that the above behavior is classified as treason. Selling out your country to a corporation is just as bad as selling out your country to another country, and in some cases far worse.

Hey guys, Obama has a website

coco ebert: No, he won't. Congress and the new Obama administration aren't going to do anything about this or any other abuses of executive power. Congress (Dems included) was complicit in a lot of the decisions taken anyway.

Good point. I really didn't take into account, bi-partisian involvement.

It's funny how we all bicker with each other through "left-wing"/"right-wing" politics, when in the end, both wings are broken and corrupt, often jerking each other off behind our collective outrage.

CanisNoir: Britney Spear's Speculum: Is it January 20th yet?

Yea like suddenly all this shait will go away. HAH. Any stupid precident Cheney begins now, you can bet the Oman's team will be using later. That's why setting "precident" is such a bad thing even if it's your guy doing it.

/yea I know "HEIL SPELLING" - I can't spell worth a shait.

What you just said has already been Brought up^

thread^

Occam's Chainsaw: Entirely unrelated to the thread at hand, but the laws need to be rewritten so that the above behavior is classified as treason. Selling out your country to a corporation is just as bad as selling out your country to another country, and in some cases far worse.

Yeah, I was only trying playing devil's advocate. I agree, a lot of what's been going on these past few years is just that, straight-up treason. Like, the textbook deffinition of the word, itself.

However, knowing that, it's in the administrations best interest to avoid as much culpability as possible. It's not so much "what's best for America", they're thinking "what's best for themselves".

It's like a separation of the people, vs. those that make the decisions on behalf of the people. And what makes it difficult is, the very laws that hold the decision-makers responcible for their actions are desided on by themselves or, at the very least, their political opposition, but I think coco a few posts above already touched on that one.

The balls on this guy.
Unfortunately, this asshole is practically untouchable. I'll have to take some comfort that eventually he'll get his comeuppance in the afterlife. That is, if they're ever unable to continue to replace his internal organs as they wear down over time.

Cheney can suck it. Federal law designates what goes in. Federal Records Retention Act, I believe. It can be protected, it can be stored up, it can be redacted, but what needs to go in will go in, regardless of what he wants.

Cheney will someday lose a hand of poker to Lee Atwater in Hell.

Cheney is the Jeffrey Dahmer of politicians. An unbelievably creepy trainwreck of a human being that you just can't help reading about

Occam's Chainsaw:

I'm standing on the top of the fence about making executive actions illegal. Really think about this. The President has a terrible job. He has to make some really hard decisions. Presidents shouldn't have to worry about going to jail for doing their job.

Now, at the same time the President should be accountable to laws just like all politicians are. You have to find that balance where President who makes a bad call doesn't go to jail for it if his intention was the good of the nation, otherwise you end up with a President who does the safe thing all the time. The safe thing is not always the best option.

I never liked the guy. I'm certain he's broken US law and should have been impeached for it, but I agree with the reasoning behind pardoning Nixon. As much as he deserved to go to jail for what he did, it probably wasn't in the best interest of the country to put him in jail.

DIck Cheney is easily more gangster than 99% of rap these days.

Occam's Chainsaw:
Entirely unrelated to the thread at hand, but the laws need to be rewritten so that the above behavior is classified as treason. Selling out your country to a corporation is just as bad as selling out your country to another country, and in some cases far worse.

I guess we need to hang any politician who voted for a bank or auto bailout. All hail, president Ron Paul.

IndyGemini: I guess we need to hang any politician who voted for a bank or auto bailout. All hail, president Ron Paul.

There's pandering to corporate interests, and then there's instigating a war so that your cronies can profit largely from the ensuing chaos.

Occam's Chainsaw: IndyGemini: I guess we need to hang any politician who voted for a bank or auto bailout. All hail, president Ron Paul.

There's pandering to corporate interests, and then there's instigating a war so that your cronies can profit largely from the ensuing chaos.

I guess as long as we have you around to draw the line about when it's okay for the government to succumb to corporatism and when it's not, I guess everything will be fine?

IndyGemini: I guess as long as we have you around to draw the line about when it's okay for the government to succumb to corporatism and when it's not, I guess everything will be fine?

So you're arguing that any and all instances of potential corporatism be considered high treason and therefore punishable by death by hanging?

Occam's Chainsaw: IndyGemini: I guess as long as we have you around to draw the line about when it's okay for the government to succumb to corporatism and when it's not, I guess everything will be fine?

So you're arguing that any and all instances of potential corporatism be considered high treason and therefore punishable by death by hanging?

I wasn't the one who proposed making it treason, I was just contemplating the potential repercussions if such a standard were established. :) I find the degree of rent seeking in our government abhorrent, but I don't think execution will solve that problem.

Occam's Chainsaw: IndyGemini: I guess as long as we have you around to draw the line about when it's okay for the government to succumb to corporatism and when it's not, I guess everything will be fine?

So you're arguing that any and all instances of potential corporatism be considered high treason and therefore punishable by death by hanging?

Probably not.

But this one is.

IndyGemini: I wasn't the one who proposed making it treason, I was just contemplating the potential repercussions if such a standard were established. :) I find the degree of rent seeking in our government abhorrent, but I don't think execution will solve that problem.

Of course, lesser severity = lesser crime. You leave a briefcase full of classified documents on a subway and they fall into the hands of the Iranians, not treason. You hand a briefcase full of classified documents to an Iranian intelligence official, treason. Similar concept.

How is my base premise flawed? How is it fundamentally worse to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a nation-state than to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a corporate entity?

Occam's Chainsaw:
How is my base premise flawed? How is it fundamentally worse to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a nation-state than to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a corporate entity?

The water is murkier. A politician can easily and persuasively argue that the 'bettering of a corporate entity' can never subvert the country because it creates jobs, or improves the infrastructure, or some other platitude about benefits to the country's welfare. Often, the welfare of a community is closely connected to the welfare of a corporation, so the temptation to, say, offer 17.4B in loans to a company only worth 4B, might cloud a politicians judgment.

IndyGemini: A politician can easily and persuasively argue that the 'bettering of a corporate entity' can never subvert the country because it creates jobs, or improves the infrastructure, or some other platitude about benefits to the country's welfare.

And I can easily and persuasively argue that bettering a foreign nation-state does any or all of the same. Sure, it'd border on insanity, but it'd be factually correct.

I'm sure if I were patient enough to outline all the caveats and conditions under which serving corporate interests to the detriment of the nation would constitute treason, we'd find that we disagree very little.

IndyGemini: Occam's Chainsaw:
How is my base premise flawed? How is it fundamentally worse to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a nation-state than to engage in the subversion of your country with the intent of bettering a corporate entity?

The water is murkier. A politician can easily and persuasively argue that the 'bettering of a corporate entity' can never subvert the country because it creates jobs, or improves the infrastructure, or some other platitude about benefits to the country's welfare. Often, the welfare of a community is closely connected to the welfare of a corporation, so the temptation to, say, offer 17.4B in loans to a company only worth 4B, might cloud a politicians judgment.

I guess it would have to be proved that Cheney knew or beleived that his actions of bettering a corporate entity were harmful to the country.

On the other hand, government can get away with all sorts of evils that common men cannot.

Marcus Aurelius: I take comfort in the fact that I will more than likely be able to piss on that bastard's grave.

Cheney's grave will be a monumental piece of architecture.

It really is one of the few tombs ever that will require both a urinal and a dance platform in preferably such a combination that urinators will be able to go about their business without soiling the feet of the dancers.

Knowing this, however, the Republicans will probably end up financing a monstrosity of barbed wire, laser alarms and plexiglass. If he manages to die while the Republicans are in office, this will be an expense from your taxes, in a funeral wrapped up in so much public delusion in 20% of the population, Comrade Lenin would have approved.

If nothing else, I hope some Iraq veteran chucks a combat boot or two at that mutha-farkin' chicken hawk's head!

...from his/her wheelchair!

Marcus Aurelius: I take comfort in the fact that I will more than likely be able to piss on that bastard's grave.

No problem. I'll be using some farker's idea from a couple of years ago. To whit, I'll be one of the guys selling beer, coffee, and huge water bottles to the people standing in line to do just that. I'll be the guy down the line about a half a mile away from the actual pee/grave site that you can buy said items from.

Actually, I'm thinking that this is a great investment. I'll take about 50k and buy everything wholesale, then charge a small markup. I'll do a hell of lot better than my 401k.

I just had to post this at this juncture.The Fourth Estate is party to this historic Dereliction of Duty, and should answer for their quizling aquiescence to these Bush crimes. Crimes? you say?
I've already held my own GrandJury, and we've(I, me, my, and many others in undisclosed locations) indicted Dick Cheney on War Crimes, Treason, Sedition, and other severe violations of the Constitution,....and we've issued a warrant for his arrest. The mans a "killer" and will be taken Dead or Alive"..."Bring it on"..."Missing in Action"....wait!!1! what??...Ah mean "Mission Accomplished"