Good luck with that, douchebags, there's free wifi everywhere you look. Why don't you just get the hint that sales are down because you are releasing crap? Upgrade your business model and stop harrassing your customers. Most of the music I download is product I have already bought on records, cassettes, reel to reel and CDs, I've given you enough money. How many times do I have to pay you for the same thing?

RIAA will notify an ISP, which will then warn the user and ultimately suspend or discontinue his access if a change is not observed. "Major ISPs" are said to be on-board with the idea.


starbucks is gonna get their wi-fi access cut off nearly every other week.

Weaver95: starbucks is gonna get their wi-fi access cut off nearly every other week.

Nobody at RIAA has thought that far ahead.

Should be pretty danmned funny when RIAA starts serving notices to coffee shops, hotels and airports with open wifi threatening to shut off their innernets.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Should be pretty danmned funny when RIAA starts serving notices to coffee shops, hotels and airports with open wifi threatening to shut off their innernets.

Not to mention public libraries and apartment buildings with unsecured wireless routers. my last wardrive around downtown I found at least 4 open wi-fi hotspots with strong signals that I could have used to download music. One of which was located in the federal court house. And I found several other hot spots with weak encryption that could probably be broken with a bit of skull sweat and some 'out of the box' exploits.

I can imagine the backlash when RIAA decides to cut the internet access for several members of the local state legislature because someone used their open wi-fi hotspot(s) to download some MP3 files.

Weaver95: Bill_Wick's_Friend: Should be pretty danmned funny when RIAA starts serving notices to coffee shops, hotels and airports with open wifi threatening to shut off their innernets.

Not to mention public libraries and apartment buildings with unsecured wireless routers. my last wardrive around downtown I found at least 4 open wi-fi hotspots with strong signals that I could have used to download music. One of which was located in the federal court house. And I found several other hot spots with weak encryption that could probably be broken with a bit of skull sweat and some 'out of the box' exploits.

I can imagine the backlash when RIAA decides to cut the internet access for several members of the local state legislature because someone used their open wi-fi hotspot(s) to download some MP3 files.

I didn't think the strategy of the RIAA could get any stupidier, but, really?
I know the internet ISPs like to be dicks, but this is taking it pretty far even for them. THEY'RE regulated, even if the RIAA isn't.
Can someone please set up a fax for me to send to my senator and representative calling for them to have a hearing on whether comcast, verizon, etc are allowed to cut off service because of this?

In July 2009, the RIAA will report that June 2009 will have been the "biggest month of piracy ever."

Nowhere in their butthurt whining will they mention the massive competition they get from the Ghostbusters video game coming out that month.

Yep, that's another thing that's affecting their sales: competition from interactive entertainment. The games industry has been an unstoppable juggernaut for quite some time, and is showing no signs of doing anything besides getting bigger.

I'd rather pay $60 for a game than $15 for a movie & snacks. The game averages out to $6 an hour for 10 hours (assuming I stick to the rails and don't really explore). The movie averages out to $10 an hour for 90 minutes. It's just more bang for my buck. And I'd rather play a song in Rock Band than just listen to it on CD (inb4 lern2play4realz).

But sure, blame file sharing. It could never be that no one wants what you're selling (what files are being shared? BIG HINT THERE).

What about people that don't care that much and use their current ISP until caught? It sounds like all the ISPs can do at this point is threaten you to change your behavior and if you don't, cut off your innernets access.

In my area, we have DSL, cable, City Wireless (same provider as DSL), and believe it or not, broadband over powerlines (Current Communcations) and countless ISPs to choose from. What's to stop people from just hopping around from one ISP to the next when caught? Unlike stopping serial spammers, I somehow doubt competing ISPs are going to share this type of information with one another. I could be wrong, I've never worked for an ISP. If they do, I'd guess it would probably be bandwidth-usage related if anything.

I'm only including pay services here, everyone else has already covered the free / open wireless that could be used too. And the less than cunning plan the RIAA has come up with.

As someone who takes a property-rights-centered view of politics and the law, I'm deeply conflicted over the proper nature and limits of "intellectual property". My own internal dispute notwithstanding, I have absolutely no problem stating this: Fark the RIAA in the neck with a rusty spork. What a bunch of flaming twatwaffles.

Churchill2004: As someone who takes a property-rights-centered view of politics and the law, I'm deeply conflicted over the proper nature and limits of "intellectual property". My own internal dispute notwithstanding, I have absolutely no problem stating this: Fark the RIAA in the neck with a rusty spork. What a bunch of flaming twatwaffles.

For all I know, RIAA might even be right about copyright law and online distribution. I dunno, i'm not a lawyer. I'm a programmer/analyst. And what I know is that - barring some sort of massive EMP event or nuclear war - it is physically impossible to prevent file trading from continuing. Nothing will stop it now. No lawsuit, no threat, no ad campaign...NOTHING will stop file trading.

But I can't seem to get the pro-RIAA crowd to grasp that reality. They keep talking about 'copyright law' as if it's some magical talisman. Ok, well - wave that talisman around all you want but it's not stopping file trading. So what's next guys? Make up MORE useless and unenforcable laws?

Weaver95: For all I know, RIAA might even be right about copyright law and online distribution. I dunno, i'm not a lawyer. I'm a programmer/analyst. And what I know is that - barring some sort of massive EMP event or nuclear war - it is physically impossible to prevent file trading from continuing. Nothing will stop it now. No lawsuit, no threat, no ad campaign...NOTHING will stop file trading.

But I can't seem to get the pro-RIAA crowd to grasp that reality. They keep talking about 'copyright law' as if it's some magical talisman. Ok, well - wave that talisman around all you want but it's not stopping file trading. So what's next guys? Make up MORE useless and unenforcable laws?

As sympathetic as I am to the idea of "intellectual property"- it is after all at the heart of the wildly successful patent and copyright systems that were pioneered in the US in the 1800s- the practical reality of enforcement is one of the strongest arguments against it. A law that won't be followed by the vast majority of society is ipso facto a bad law, particularly since I take the view that all law, properly understood, has to be built from a rational understanding of human nature. She got almost all of the implications of that insight wrong, I think, (nor did she invent the concept of natural law), but that's another thing Rand was right about.

Back to the subject of Rand, that's what makes Rand such a controversial figure, I think. She combined a few really good (though not as original as she claimed) insights with a whole bunch of obsessive-compulsive insanity, intellectual arrogance, and ironically inconsistent thinking out of the implications of her ideas. I think any well-informed person should be at least passingly familiar with what she advocated, but like many influential thinkers she was in some ways nuttier than squirrel poo. This essay (by a prominent libertarian natural rights theoretician) is key to understanding the contradictions in Rand and her little "Objectivist" niche of the libertarian world (and, her protestations and complicated relationship with libertarianism notwithstanding, Rand can be classified as a "libertarian" thinker).

D'oh, our conversation about Rand was in this thread. So if y'all are wondering why the hell I started talking about Ayn Rand, there you go.

Churchill2004: D'oh, our conversation about Rand was in this thread. So if y'all are wondering why the hell I started talking about Ayn Rand, there you go.

Hey, that's OK. The RIAA, like Randians, are a bunch of compulsive mental masturbators with little to offer the real world.

Anyway, the RIAA needs to get a new schtick. Like, if you actually buy the content, you get nifty 3-D goggles and a one-time only access code to a website where you can see the current RIAA president fisting the past RIAA president. With a very rusty gauntlet.

See, that kind of value-added content would continue to drive people to legal purchases.

Maybe the RIAA will chase people even further from RIAA related music.

Why would you risk downloading something associated with them when you can listen to tons of music that isn't?

no way..uh-uh!..This is totally outra

I'm behind 7 proxies!!!

/Ha! Ha!
//Arrgh me maties, I have travelled the 7 ISP's!

I heard the RIAA is paying Dr Who to use the Tardis to travel back in time to destroy the internet. They're also going to travel to alternate dimensions so they can sue your interdimensional selves.

This is win win for the ISPs and the RIAA until they realize they won't know who is doing what with their connections, just like Comcast guesses because you're using Bittorrent that you're automatically utilizing bandwidth illegaly and putting caps on you.

This is about the RIAA manipulating the ISPs to work for them, under the guise of the RIAA working for the ISPs.

I hope they don't shut off my neighbor, I like secondary, non-proxy access to forums.

I can guarantee that if my ISP were to cut off my internet access, the RIAA would get less money from me. I buy tons of CDs, and the CDs I buy are ones that I have already downloaded and decided I like enough to purchase. I am not buying an album I haven't been able to listen to, in its entirety, a few times at least.

So sure, go ahead with this plan f**ktards. That will make CD sales skyrocket!

Step 1) ISP = Business = Bottom line
Step 2) Cut off customer and his/her dollars per month because technology has bypassed your failed business model.
Step 3) Profit ??????

Step 3 seems to be missing. I work for an ISP and I call tell you how this will go down with the Bean Counters.

Good Luck RIAA

Life is going to be really boring once they make the Internet unbearable to use.

DAR: Step 1) ISP = Business = Bottom line
Step 2) Cut off customer and his/her dollars per month because technology has bypassed your failed business model.
Step 3) Profit ??????

Step 3 seems to be missing. I work for an ISP and I call tell you how this will go down with the Bean Counters.

Good Luck RIAA

My thoughts exactly.

The big ISPs/telcos will flip out when they are forced to shut off HUGE numbers of customers, who then flee to another provider. And for all the power the RIAA seemingly has, they are weaklings compared to the communications industry.

realmolo: DAR: Step 1) ISP = Business = Bottom line
Step 2) Cut off customer and his/her dollars per month because technology has bypassed your failed business model.
Step 3) Profit ??????

Step 3 seems to be missing. I work for an ISP and I call tell you how this will go down with the Bean Counters.

Good Luck RIAA

My thoughts exactly.

The big ISPs/telcos will flip out when they are forced to shut off HUGE numbers of customers, who then flee to another provider. And for all the power the RIAA seemingly has, they are weaklings compared to the communications industry.

I don't see how this could benefit the ISPs. The only way they would go along with this is if they were charged as an accessory to piracy, which would pretty much shut down the tubes indefinitely.

Britney Spear's Speculum: The only way they would go along with this is if they were charged as an accessory to piracy,

For that, you would have to buy a few politicians in Washington and try to pass new laws which the ISP's would fight tooth and nail cause it would cost them even more money.

It all comes down to the bottom line......Quarterly Profits

The first time they cut off a lawyer's ISP access they're doomed. First rule of life, don't do anything that might fark with a lawyer.

So did libbynomore have something vile and ignorant to say in the RIAA's defense? I have her on my ignore list, but seeing people quote her and point out her batshiat insanity is always great, especially in these threads.

Britney Spear's Speculum: realmolo: DAR: Step 1) ISP = Business = Bottom line
Step 2) Cut off customer and his/her dollars per month because technology has bypassed your failed business model.
Step 3) Profit ??????

Step 3 seems to be missing. I work for an ISP and I call tell you how this will go down with the Bean Counters.

Good Luck RIAA

My thoughts exactly.

The big ISPs/telcos will flip out when they are forced to shut off HUGE numbers of customers, who then flee to another provider. And for all the power the RIAA seemingly has, they are weaklings compared to the communications industry.

I don't see how this could benefit the ISPs. The only way they would go along with this is if they were charged as an accessory to piracy, which would pretty much shut down the tubes indefinitely.

This is exactly what I thought when I heard about it. An ISP would be pretty foolish to sign on to a policy that will lose them money.

DAR: I work for an ISP and I call tell you how this will go down with the Bean Counters.

Good Luck RIAA

I was hoping someone that worked for one would add to this thread. As I asked earlier, what's to keep people that have 4+ different access methods (physical mediums, see my example above) and numerous IPSs to use from just randomly hopping around to the next one? Switching ISPs is a trivial task.

And I'm going to bet that at least a few ISPs are going to refuse to turn over your information to the RIAA based on some half-assed evidence that you might be sharing files. When people find out who the ISPs are that told the RIAA to fsck off, you can bet they'll have many more customers. And then those ISPs that are turning over customer information will likely rethink their whole position.

Of course, there is always the option of NOT violating U.S. and international law by NOT downloading music to which you do not own legal permissions.

"I want it, and they are bad rich people" may be true, but it doesn't make copyright violation legal or ethical.

bronyaur1: Of course, there is always the option of NOT violating U.S. and international law by NOT downloading music to which you do not own legal permissions.

there are procedures in place for dealing with people who infringe on copyrights. So far the RIAA has never even demonstrated that it is authorized to deal with it. Nevermind that its proposals for dealing with it seek to circumvent due process whenever possible. Nevermind the RIAA isn't exactly interested in what the copyright holders aka song writers think. Which is kind of a problem since it's their copyrights at issue.

why wouldn't they just go after the Bit Torrent services?

I buy my CD's used, so someone else has already paid all the RIAA fees/crap that's built into MSRP.

Also, as long as there's 2-3 good tracks, I don't mind paying $3-5 for a disc

/ ...getting a kick...
// IT'S ALL LEGAL, RIAA BIATCHES!

abbarach: I buy my CD's used, so someone else has already paid all the RIAA fees/crap that's built into MSRP.

Checking out CDs from the local library is even better.

Hau Ruck: Checking out CDs from the local library is even better.

I would, but I'm in rural Kentucky, and our local library, while pretty good in the "fiction" department, and stellar in terms of local genealogy/history, has a pretty much non-existent music section. In the plus, I have found some pretty good local bluegrass, but beyond that it's not really worth the time.

Now when I lived in Lexington, the library was a GREAT source of music!

abbarach: Hau Ruck:
Now when I lived in Lexington, the library was a GREAT source of music!

Lexington was very cool for the year that we lived there. CD Central was (still is) awesome, as is WRFL (I hope it's still around).

The only bad part about library CDs is that sometimes it takes quite a bit longer to rip them when they're scratched to hell.

Hau Ruck: Lexington was very cool for the year that we lived there. CD Central was (still is) awesome, as is WRFL (I hope it's still around).

CD Central was definitely a good haunt when I was on-campus. I'd head in just about every Tuesday to see what was new, and what the staff was listening to. Got turned on to some very good music while I was there (If not for them I probably still wouldn't have run into the Super Furry Animals, for example). They still have new vinyl in the back, one of (if not the only) place in Lexington to get it brand new.

RFL's still around. When I was in college I had a friend who ran the 3-6AM Sunday shift. What a blast! They recently (maybe 3-4 years ago?) moved the DJ booth to where you could see it from the hallway. If you ever find yourself back in town, head into the UK Student Center (just kittycorner from CD Central across Limestone), head in the door on that side, and the station's the first door on your left. It's still fully-student run, 24/7/365.

Oh, and they've added streaming radio off their website: Here (pops)

99% of the music I own was acquired legally, but some stuff is just really hard to find through legal channels. Torrents come in really handy in that situation. Why should someone like me be punished just because I may want to listen to something that isn't available on iTunes, Amazon, etc.?

abbarach
Try an inter-library loan, though I don't know if a library would lend out CDs to another city's branch because they scratch and get damaged easier than books.

Oh, and this is obligatory:

abbarach: I buy my CD's used, so someone else has already paid all the RIAA fees/crap that's built into MSRP.

Also, as long as there's 2-3 good tracks, I don't mind paying $3-5 for a disc

/ ...getting a kick...
// IT'S ALL LEGAL, RIAA BIATCHES!
They tried to make that illegal, not so long ago...

abbarach: Oh, and they've added streaming radio off their website: Here (pops)

Thanks for the link. If it wasn't for the CD Central e-mails, I'd have no clue what new and good music was coming out every Tuesday.

And the WRFL broadcast area was the best. Where else can you walk into a studio and make requests?

I've got some experience working with online copyright infringement. Most of the reports I received were captured using automated systems and keywords. Plenty of false positives came through where someone had a file called 'Pearl Harbor' (for example) and the MPAA would report them. Under the DMCA, the reporting party is claiming under penalty of perjury that the information is correct so our corporate lawyers instructed us to proceed with notice and take down. Shadyness.

I'm not worried. I just leech.

/Used to share extensively via P2P, now I just swap out hard drives with coworkers.