Spiffy? Fark you, Chicom bastard.

China gets what China wants.

Or else.

The US reintegrated after its civil war, so why the big fuss about China and Taiwan?

China has been around as a country for ten times as long as the US and has had many other splits in the past, and subsequently reunited.

They'll play the long game. There will be no war and no coercion. But they will reunite. Eventually.

/ You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

Are the Taiwanese nationalistic at all, or do they culturally identify themselves with China?

opiumpoopy: The US reintegrated after its civil war, so why the big fuss about China and Taiwan?

China has been around as a country for ten times as long as the US and has had many other splits in the past, and subsequently reunited.

They'll play the long game. There will be no war and no coercion. But they will reunite. Eventually.

/ You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

America is pretty unique in the world as a superpower that doesn't really play a long game... shifts in administrations signal dramatic changes in SOP. Most of the time.

opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

Mistah Scrotie: opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

Oh come now, it's been three days since they've done that.

Mistah Scrotie: opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

You just typed that on a keyboard made in China.

well, they do call themselves the 'ROC'

/republic of china

The Dreaded Rear Admiral: Mistah Scrotie: opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

Oh come now, it's been three days since they've done that.

And those people deserved it anyway, they hurt the government's feelings.

opiumpoopy: China has been around as a country for ten times as long as the US and has had many other splits in the past, and subsequently reunited.

LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949. That's hardly ten times as long as the US. Oh, there's been a China for thousands of years, sure, but it's hardly been the same country the entire time. Generally, radical changes in government break continuity. That's like saying the Germany of today is the same country that waged genocide back in the 40s. It's just not true.

opiumpoopy: They'll play the long game. There will be no war and no coercion. But they will reunite. Eventually.

You're assuming China can hold it together for the "long game". Ignoring the geographic realities of holding a country of that scale together, for all of the oconomic power they hold now, their economy is balanced on a knife's edge. In the long game, I don't think they're going to end up doing that well.

Yoweigh

Are the Taiwanese nationalistic at all, or do they culturally identify themselves with China?

The Taiwanese I know call themselves Taiwanese, and Chinese means the mainlanders. But they're all Han.

I could be completely wrong, but that's my impression.

I can haz hot asain chick thread?

/please?

So now they're talking and investing in each other. Sounds rather win-win to me.

Facetious_Speciest:
The Taiwanese I know call themselves Taiwanese, and Chinese means the mainlanders. But they're all Han.

I could be completely wrong, but that's my impression.


Saying or implying that they are Chinese nationals has resulted in a negative reaction in my experience. Ethnically? Yeah sure. Nationally? Hell no.


/Course China wants to bring ALL Chinese under its sway

Maybe I RTFA wrong, but it looks more like Taiwan is going to assimilate China.

opiumpoopy: The US reintegrated after its civil war, so why the big fuss about China and Taiwan?

Taiwan is an allied democracy, China is an adversarial dictatorship. You can't see why the US might be picking sides here?

They'll play the long game. There will be no war and no coercion. But they will reunite. Eventually.

No coercion, which standoff have you been watching? Firing missiles at Taiwan, running Taiwan invasion war games...

China successfully breaks labor unions on a regular basis, so the GOP must be applauding this move.

Chinamen have small penis

t3knomanser: LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949. That's hardly ten times as long as the US. Oh, there's been a China for thousands of years, sure, but it's hardly been the same country the entire time. Generally, radical changes in government break continuity. That's like saying the Germany of today is the same country that waged genocide back in the 40s. It's just not true.

Most Americans don't get this kind of stuff since we belabor under the belief that there has been one continuous government of our country since its foundation.

It should be obvious to most people that the USA of 2008 has almost nothing in common with the USA of say, 1808, but if you were to attempt to take the notion of, for instance, the different French Republics and apply that to American history, most people's heads would explode trying to comprehend it.

It's not that we're stupid (at least, not any more stupid than everyone else on the planet), it's just that for some reason we don't teach this concept in our schools, which is really kind of odd since it actually does make it rather easier to understand history.

Actually a lot of Taiwanese businesses have pulled out of China (they had a lot invested over there) because of their changing rules they started opening up factories in Vietnam.
The Chinese are trying to get them to come back. Plus the USA owes Taiwan a farkload of money too. Taiwan doesn't need any loans.

Fark must be broken cause I see no pics of hot Asian women in this thread

and once the U.S. becomes a non-player, Communist China will kick our Crony Capitalist Arses. have a nice day!

and you thought the cold war was over? lol

TwistedFark: t3knomanser: LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949. That's hardly ten times as long as the US. Oh, there's been a China for thousands of years, sure, but it's hardly been the same country the entire time. Generally, radical changes in government break continuity. That's like saying the Germany of today is the same country that waged genocide back in the 40s. It's just not true.

Most Americans don't get this kind of stuff since we belabor under the belief that there has been one continuous government of our country since its foundation.

It should be obvious to most people that the USA of 2008 has almost nothing in common with the USA of say, 1808, but if you were to attempt to take the notion of, for instance, the different French Republics and apply that to American history, most people's heads would explode trying to comprehend it.

It's not that we're stupid (at least, not any more stupid than everyone else on the planet), it's just that for some reason we don't teach this concept in our schools, which is really kind of odd since it actually does make it rather easier to understand history.

So when a country gets a new leader, the country has fundamentally changed?

Something is screwed in your way of thinking. Each of those French Republics have had a different Constitution. At least the US has had the same Constitution for over 200 years.

Calling us the World's oldest government wouldn't be that far off.

But I thought Reagan defeated communism!

AR55: So when a country gets a new leader, the country has fundamentally changed?

No, but when there are fundamental changes, like, for example, a civil war that replaces the extant government with a new one, it's not really the same country any more. It's like the "Ship of Theseus" paradox. At a certain point, when the changes are significant enough, continuity is broken and we must really call it a new ship.

"Chinese means the mainlanders. But they're all Han."

So, if you have a monogamous relationship with a Chinese, it'd be a Han Solo?
/apologizes to Mr. Ford

Most emblematic of the Reaganite attitude toward government was the savings-and-loan scandal. The president's advisors had convinced him that if he would only deregulate the thrift industry, a gigantic bonanza of growth and investment was sure to follow. His sunny quip when he signed the deregulation bill in 1982 was typical Reagan: "All in all, I think we've hit the jackpot." There's no reason to doubt he sincerely believed that with government shoved aside, everyone would prosper. The best reckoning of the costs of his benign intentions is a trillion dollars.

http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/conason/2004/06/08/reagan/index.html

filth: Spiffy? Fark you, Chicom bastard.

Mistah Scrotie: I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

d-fens99: I can haz hot asain chick thread?
/please?

drjekel_mrhyde: Chinamen have small penis



A snapshot in time, the average American's view and understanding of China and East Asia in general.

drjekel_mrhyde: Got to do it myself

Why thank you good sir, my eyes are thoroughly cleaned and bleached for the day.

Ahh yes, now Taiwanese firms will have slightly easier investment access to mainland firms. And likewise.

Everything else concerning politics and military power of the two countries remains exactly the same.

EVERYBODY PANIC!

Mistah Scrotie: opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

I don't believe the Chinese government has run anyone over with tanks since about 20 years ago. Unless you want to suggest that the Chinese government has a long line of it's citizens that it lines up and runs over, day in and day out, on a continuous basis, you may stop your ranting and raving.

I have been predicting a peaceful assimilation for some time.

drjekel_mrhyde:
Got to do it myself

#1 = tranny
#2 = Japanese

Thanks for coming out...

t3knomanser: opiumpoopy: China has been around as a country for ten times as long as the US and has had many other splits in the past, and subsequently reunited.

LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949. That's hardly ten times as long as the US. Oh, there's been a China for thousands of years, sure, but it's hardly been the same country the entire time. Generally, radical changes in government break continuity. That's like saying the Germany of today is the same country that waged genocide back in the 40s. It's just not true.

opiumpoopy: They'll play the long game. There will be no war and no coercion. But they will reunite. Eventually.

You're assuming China can hold it together for the "long game". Ignoring the geographic realities of holding a country of that scale together, for all of the oconomic power they hold now, their economy is balanced on a knife's edge. In the long game, I don't think they're going to end up doing that well.

The Chinese do consider themselves a continuous entity with just changes in leadership and governmental variations. At least that was the impression I got from a Chinese friend born and raised in Hong Kong. They seem to consider the Communist Regime just one more step in their long civilization's history and he and his family did not differentiate between themselves and mainland Chinese anymore than we do between Northerners and Southerners. According to him at least.

"Under Emperors or King's or a Chairmen, were always Chinese."
his words not mine.

China as a Nation is forever, the Republic of China is just it's current form.

Fortunately, China is a permanent favored trade nation. Just months after espionage on their part and the lovely misunderstanding at Tiananman Square

Me Chinese, me play joke, my put pee pee in your Coke!

TwistedFark: t3knomanser: LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949. That's hardly ten times as long as the US. Oh, there's been a China for thousands of years, sure, but it's hardly been the same country the entire time. Generally, radical changes in government break continuity. That's like saying the Germany of today is the same country that waged genocide back in the 40s. It's just not true.

Most Americans don't get this kind of stuff since we belabor under the belief that there has been one continuous government of our country since its foundation.

It should be obvious to most people that the USA of 2008 has almost nothing in common with the USA of say, 1808, but if you were to attempt to take the notion of, for instance, the different French Republics and apply that to American history, most people's heads would explode trying to comprehend it.

It's not that we're stupid (at least, not any more stupid than everyone else on the planet), it's just that for some reason we don't teach this concept in our schools, which is really kind of odd since it actually does make it rather easier to understand history.

Yep.

In many ways, the US has actually had six governments. The first was the Articles of Confederation gov't. The next being the early Constitutional gov't until Jackson, indicated by a weak presidency and a powerful legislature that essentially was an aristocratic oligarchy.

After Jackson's taking advantage of the expanded franchise, the third government was the "slave power" of the next 30 years, that collapsed in the Civil War. After that was your ostensibly hands-off (in reality pro-corporate) Gilded Age government, America's second aristocratic period, which ended in a modified form (greater franchise) with the Great Depression. This by far was the longest "republic" of the US.

The American Welfare State began with Roosevelt and lasted until the collapse of the New Deal coalition due to the Civil Rights Era. After that was the age of Identity Politics starting with Nixon, which was dominated by white middle and upper class interests (being the largest identity group). That has lasted to this day.

Perhaps it's changed with Obama's election, I can't say until many years from now. Each of these periods are defined by what the majority saw the role of government as, and what interests held the most power. Obviously, the major divisions are between pre-Civil War, pre-Depression, and post-Depression.

Finally, China will eventually fracture when the increased wealth from industrialization combined with the oppression that the process inevitably produces causes ethnic tensions between the Han Chinese and everyone else to be unmanageable. At that point, there will be a massive civil war that hopefully (but doubtfully) the European powers will not get involved with.

zelachang: filth: Spiffy? Fark you, Chicom bastard.

Mistah Scrotie: I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

d-fens99: I can haz hot asain chick thread?
/please?

drjekel_mrhyde: Chinamen have small penis



A snapshot in time, the average American's view and understanding of China and East Asia in general.

You here four hour, you go now.

Doak: I don't believe the Chinese government has run anyone over with tanks since about 20 years ago. Unless you want to suggest that the Chinese government has a long line of it's citizens that it lines up and runs over, day in and day out, on a continuous basis, you may stop your ranting and raving.

They are still pretty rough with dissenters. But they aren't as stupid and Fox-news driven as Americans and G W Bush.

The Hong Kong takeover went pretty well, all things considered, but Americans have completely forgotten it. The Pentagon just pretends it never happens when assessing the Chinese threat.

AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: Finally, China will eventually fracture when the increased wealth from industrialization combined with the oppression that the process inevitably produces causes ethnic tensions between the Han Chinese and everyone else to be unmanageable. At that point, there will be a massive civil war that hopefully (but doubtfully) the European powers will not get involved with.

Um... the Han Chinese make up about 91% of the population. (Sayeth the CIA factbook)

That'll be one hell of a short civil war.

No Such Agency: drjekel_mrhyde:
Got to do it myself

#1 = tranny
#2 = Japanese

Thanks for coming out...

Well that tranny sure do have a purtty mouth

ilambiquated
Doak: I don't believe the Chinese government has run anyone over with tanks since about 20 years ago.

but but Tanks need a soft squishy surface to run on, less bumps and in the long run they just enhace the environment (Less people)

Al Gore would approve

Chinawomen

No Such Agency: drjekel_mrhyde:
Got to do it myself

#1 = tranny
#2 = Japanese

Thanks for coming out...

Well that tranny sure do have a purtty mouth

Japaneese are Asians too aren't they?

AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent:
In many ways, the US has actually had six governments. The first was the Articles of Confederation gov't. The next being the early Constitutional gov't until Jackson, indicated by a weak presidency and a powerful legislature that essentially was an aristocratic oligarchy.

After Jackson's taking advantage of the expanded franchise, the third government was the "slave power" of the next 30 years, that collapsed in the Civil War. After that was your ostensibly hands-off (in reality pro-corporate) Gilded Age government, America's second aristocratic period, which ended in a modified form (greater franchise) with the Great Depression. This by far was the longest "republic" of the US.

The American Welfare State began with Roosevelt and lasted until the collapse of the New Deal coalition due to the Civil Rights Era. After that was the age of Identity Politics starting with Nixon, which was dominated by white middle and upper class interests (being the largest identity group). That has lasted to this day.


Those are still all the same government though (except maybe the articles of confederation age)and mostly the same territory and peoples. Those periods you described are watersheds in history for sure. Its like the evolution of any organization, it changes over time. It would be like saying that an old retired person is different person than when he was a teenager. Same person, just different life experiances that shape his decision making.

I hope that makes sense, that's how i've always viewed history

drjekel_mrhyde: Got to do it myself

they may be built in taiwan, but those jigglys were made in the usa!

Gumercules: t3knomanser: opiumpoopy: China has been around as a country for ten times as long as the US and has had many other splits in the past, and subsequently reunited.

LOL WUT? China has been a country since 1949.

The Chinese do consider themselves a continuous entity with just changes in leadership and governmental variations. At least that was the impression I got from a Chinese friend born and raised in Hong Kong. They seem to consider the Communist Regime just one more step in their long civilization's history and he and his family did not differentiate between themselves and mainland Chinese anymore than we do between Northerners and Southerners. According to him at least.

"Under Emperors or King's or a Chairmen, were always Chinese."
his words not mine.

China as a Nation is forever, the Republic of China is just it's current form.

I am ethnic Han, born in Taiwan to China-born parents, with many relatives in China, and I agree with your friend. China has had 4000 years of dynasties, including periods of fractious fiefdoms, kingdoms, and warlords, but the people generally consider the current government system as just that - a 'current' government system. No empire lasts forever; each dynasty came and went with the flow and ebb of time, though some lasted centuries. Both the communist and the KMT governments will go the same way as all the others. We're used to it, ye ken?

Below is a list of Chinese dynasties - they had different names - even though some historians argue over whether or not the Xia was a proper dynasty - and some of them were ruled by non-Hans (the Yuan dynasty was ruled by Mongols, the Qing was by the Manchus), but through it all we considered ourselves Chinese. We don't say, Confucius was a philosopher of the nation of Zhou; we say he was a Chinese philosopher from the Zhou period; Li Bai was not a poet from the nation of Tang, he was a Chinese poet of the Tang period, and so on.

* Xia Dynasty About 1994 BCE - 1766 BCE
* Shang Dynasty 1766 BCE - 1027 BCE
* Zhou Dynasty 1122 BCE -256 BCE plus supplement
* Qin Dynasty 221 BCE - 206 BCE
* Early Han Dynasty 206 BCE - 9 AD
* Xin Dynasty 9 AD - 24 AD
* Later Han Dynasty 25 AD - 220 AD
* Three Kingdoms - Period of Disunion 220 AD - 280 AD
* Sui Dynasty 589 AD - 618 AD
* Tang Dynasty 618 AD - 907 AD
* Sung Dynasty 969 AD - 1279 AD
* Yuan Dyansty 1279 AD - 1368 AD
* Ming Dynasty 1368 AD - 1644 AD
* Manchu or Qing Dynasty 1644 AD - 1912 AD

HotWingConspiracy: Mistah Scrotie: opiumpoopy: You may now resume your anti-China ranting.

I'll stop ranting against China when they stop rolling over their citizens with tanks

You just typed that on a keyboard made in China.

are yuou saysing ymy keoybrad wsa runnn oever by a tnak?

The mainland Chinese gov't model isn't communism. Hasn't been for quite some time.

China has evolved into a corporate state, with money and business being the new power doctrine.

I don't blame the Taiwanese for wanting to avoid that fate.