Too late, the damage is done.

Sheesh, RIAA, isn't this new solution the obvious solution? A handful of deals with the big ISP's, and you've got your thumb on 90% of the Internet population.

Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence. It is more convienent for the average user to pay $8 for an album than try to configure Limewire- or worse, Bittorrent- to steal the music.

downstairs: Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence. It is more convienent for the average user to pay $8 for an album than try to configure Limewire- or worse, Bittorrent- to steal the music.

Wow, you are full of the fail today. Why don't try reading these articles first before rubbing your junk on the comments section?
FTA:

In 2003, the industry sold 656 million albums. In 2007, the number fell to 500 million CDs and digital albums, plus 844 million paid individual song downloads -- hardly enough to make up the decline in album sales.

So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

CuteFluffyBunny: That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

In my case, I'm not listening to any new American music anymore.
I still have old jazz, or classic rock. But currently Ive been getting into Spanish and South American music.

CuteFluffyBunny: So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore. buying as much new music anymore.

ftfy

/can you really say that the drop is solely due to pirating?

that whole "death of anonymous web-use" looks more and more plausible by the day.

I enjoy pandora on my computer and my phone.

Someone at their office must have realized they were losing customers by acting like huge dicks.

RIAA: Merry Christmas everyone!

Everyone: ..I.. (-_-) ..I..

stickmangrit: that whole "death of anonymous web-use" looks more and more plausible by the day.


Yeahhhh... about that... it died a long time ago.

HowAboutNo: stickmangrit: that whole "death of anonymous web-use" looks more and more plausible by the day.


Yeahhhh... about that... it died a long time ago.

Hahaha, really?

Alebak: RIAA: Merry Christmas everyone!

Everyone: ..I.. (-_-) ..I..

Your guy has downs.
My guy is cooler.

t(o.O)t

CuteFluffyBunny
before rubbing your junk on the comments section

...

Wow. I would declare the thread over by this phrase alone. I shall endeavor to utilize it daily.

Not sure why.

/mental image?

1. produce craptastic albums for the mainstream
2. ?????
3. NO PROFIT.


step no 2 is that they don't have a farking clue on what people want.

I used to think I was the only one that hated mainstream music of the last decade or so. but recently in one of my classes here at FSU, a professor casually asked before class what everyone (500 people in a lecture hall) thought of new music. the answer was almost a unanimous "IT SUCKS". that coming from a bunch of students averaging 18-24 years old was shocking.

the biggest problem I think is that many people simply don't like the music that's being produced these days. it's too polished with little originality and zero emotion. on the other hand, Indie bands (indie as in independent, not crappy jam bands) has been thriving because people seem to realize that's where the talent is these days. the major record labels and the RIAA have yet to figure this out.

sure, there is still a lot of downloading that takes place and I'll admit I've downloaded more than my fair share. but I've also bought a lot of albums from bands and gone to see them in concert that I normally would never have because I wouldn't have ever heard of them if it were not for the internet.

:::looks outside window:::

:::Sees 10 inches of snow:::

Nope, it definitely isn't April.

WTF is going on here?

Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence.

Because management of your ISP is clueless, queue the disconnects over LEGAL downloads of iTunes, Amazon, Wal-Mart songs in 3, 2, 1 ...

CuteFluffyBunny: downstairs: Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence. It is more convienent for the average user to pay $8 for an album than try to configure Limewire- or worse, Bittorrent- to steal the music.

Wow, you are full of the fail today. Why don't try reading these articles first before rubbing your junk on the comments section?
FTA:

In 2003, the industry sold 656 million albums. In 2007, the number fell to 500 million CDs and digital albums, plus 844 million paid individual song downloads -- hardly enough to make up the decline in album sales.

So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

I suspect that consumer purchases on things like music would be down in a down economy though. I wouldn't want to fullly attribute that decline to piracy based on the numbers alone - I think you need something more to make that conclusion.

CuteFluffyBunny: downstairs: Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence. It is more convienent for the average user to pay $8 for an album than try to configure Limewire- or worse, Bittorrent- to steal the music.

Wow, you are full of the fail today. Why don't try reading these articles first before rubbing your junk on the comments section?
FTA:

In 2003, the industry sold 656 million albums. In 2007, the number fell to 500 million CDs and digital albums, plus 844 million paid individual song downloads -- hardly enough to make up the decline in album sales.

So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

Ok, rather than be jerkwads, let's be clear here.

656 - 500 = 156 million fewer albums sold per year.

In addition, 844 million songs were sold.

At (roughly) 12 songs per album, that's the equivalent of 70 million albums.

70 million additional albums / 156 million fewer albums = these consumers decided that roughly 55% of the songs on the albums were garbage and not worth buying.

Or, to look at it another way...

2003 = 7872 million songs sold (assuming 12 song albums)
2007 = 6844 million songs sold

This is a 13% decrease in song sales.

I would say that assuming 13% of songs are not worth buying is HARDLY an overestimation.

The market demanded choice, via single song purchases, and now it's exercising that choice.

/rant off

CuteFluffyBunny: So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

Or just buying single songs instead of albums bloated with crap. And they rightfully should.

nemoxnine:

The market demanded choice, via single song purchases, and now it's exercising that choice.



Everybody knows the market is always wrong.

Bailouts are right. Markets are wrong. I know because the President said so.

3 simple words could end mainstream music.

Protest the Hero.

I'm still using Alltunes for just about all my music...

and yes, it's legal from where I am.

It's still the best site I've yet to find that has most of all the music that I've wanted, their service is fantastic, and I've yet to have any problems using them.

Never had to worry about DMR, the quality is great, the choice in format available to download is the best I've seen.

The only problem I've had is refilling my balance, but even then, there's been work-arounds that are easy when available.

And that the content is a lot of international music with very little (c)rap and such things that I don't even know why there's no other sites that can even match it.

/haven't bought a single CD in years
/ripped all my CDs years ago and they are now sitting in a box downstairs, don't miss the media at all.

Maybe sales are dropping because music isn't good?

The number of new (as in released in that year) albums I buy each year is quickly declining. Of course I'm not as connected as I used to be to the music industry, but it's also because most of what is getting put out is crap.

Make music people want, and they'll buy it to support the people who made it.

Make crappy music that only has "one good song for when you're in the club" and people will download that one song from iTunes or Limewire.

/the music business needs a business lesson
//the above also applies to the movie industry
///make movies worth seeing and people will see them and pay to do it

CuteFluffyBunny: downstairs: Amazon and iTunes proved people will generally pay for convienence. It is more convienent for the average user to pay $8 for an album than try to configure Limewire- or worse, Bittorrent- to steal the music.

Wow, you are full of the fail today. Why don't try reading these articles first before rubbing your junk on the comments section?
FTA:

In 2003, the industry sold 656 million albums. In 2007, the number fell to 500 million CDs and digital albums, plus 844 million paid individual song downloads -- hardly enough to make up the decline in album sales.

So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

844 million downloads tell me a lot of people are buying the one or two songs that they want for a lot cheaper than buying the whole CD. I used to pirate the hell out of songs (not albums) for that reason. Happy iTunes, and Amazon customer now!

Distribution through the plastic package sellers needs to end. That entire industry is built on farking the artist.

CuteFluffyBunny: So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

Actually there's just less mainstream music available to buy.

The major record labels cut down the number of releasing artists, focusing on marketing the hell out of a couple chosen stars instead.

Radio stations play far less variety, playing the same hits over and over again with very short playlists and rotation. Can hear the same songs up and down the dial.

Big box retailers like Walmart and Target only carry such a narrow selection, how many copies of the same album does some mainstream listening music fan want?

Most kids don't have the money either for $18 dollar CDs so they stick to just buying the single tracks. (yeah still waiting for cost of high tech CDs to get cheaper than cassettes)

And finally there are still plenty of people out there clueless or too intimidated to try ripping a legally purchased CD full of malware and copyprotection to their MP3 players. It's faster, cheaper and safer to download. The RIAA really missed the boat on digital media.

nemoxnine

Seriously - you think that 12 downloads translates to an album? WRONG!!! I did the same math as you and then realized what I was forgetting.

If I wanted new Britney Spears album, i'd buy the CD instead of a download. But when I have the option to download tracks I can pay less and still get what I want. I would estimate every 3 songs is a new album download. If you want to argue that some of those are making up for decreasing single sales, I could go as high as 5 downloads = album.

That's 168 additional albums, making up the difference. But this way, the RIAA members make less money, which is why their panties are in a bunch. Your argument was assuming the intent was to prove the same financial sales I think.

Lumber Jack Off: I used to think I was the only one that hated mainstream music of the last decade or so. but recently in one of my classes here at FSU, a professor casually asked before class what everyone (500 people in a lecture hall) thought of new music. the answer was almost a unanimous "IT SUCKS". that coming from a bunch of students averaging 18-24 years old was shocking.

I was boozing it up with my friend's 21-year-old son and he made the best point I've heard:

"There is no love in music anymore. The Musicians don't love their music. The girls don't love their men, the men don't love their women, there is no fraternal or sisterly love, love of country, no hope, no love of the past or love of self. Why would Anyone pay to hear such empty crap?"

SonOfNel: 844 million downloads tell me a lot of people are buying the one or two songs that they want for a lot cheaper than buying the whole CD. I used to pirate the hell out of songs (not albums) for that reason. Happy iTunes, and Amazon customer now!

There is a lot of truth in that; the exception is that with a lot of "hot," mainstream acts, their singles don't make me want to listen, much less their afterthought album tracks. We have a good radio station in Charleston that plays local, regional, and indie bands. I find that if I like their singles, the album also suits me instead of being a major disappointment.

I'm sure that I'd find the same to be true on my XM but the sound quality doesn't do it for me on music. Comedy all the way, though!

Dancin_In_Anson

How did I miss that? I lose.

Lumber Jack Off: 1. produce craptastic albums for the mainstream
2. ?????
3. NO PROFIT.


step no 2 is that they don't have a farking clue on what people want.

I used to think I was the only one that hated mainstream music of the last decade or so. but recently in one of my classes here at FSU, a professor casually asked before class what everyone (500 people in a lecture hall) thought of new music. the answer was almost a unanimous "IT SUCKS". that coming from a bunch of students averaging 18-24 years old was shocking.



It is so obvious I can't believe that it still hasn't hit the bean-counters between the eyes.

Some of the albums released in 1992:

Alice In Chains Dirt, The Jayhawks Hollywood Town Hall, Sugar Copper Blue, Uncle Tupelo March 16-20, Sonic Youth Dirty, REM Automatic For the People, Rage Against the Machine, Neil Young Harvest Moon, Tom Waits Bone Machine, Throwing Muses Red Heaven, Buffalo Tom Let Me Come Over, Peter Gabriel Us, The Lemonheads It's a Shame About Ray, The Black Crowes The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion, Eric Clapton Unplugged, Dr. Dre The Chronic, Kyuss Blues For the Red Sun, Pantera Vulgar Display of Power, Megadeth Countdown to Extinction, Faith No More Angel Dust, Ministry Psalm 69, Beastie Boys Check Your Head ...

There has been some good music released by the major labels this year. But nothing, nothing like they were releasing in the past.

The major labels made their beds when they fired most of their good artists in the mid-90s and jumped on the Boy Band/Spice Girl train to easy profits. And now they have to lay in it.

Release good music, and people will buy it. Release crap music, and people won't feel guilty about stealing it.

rubi_con_man: I was boozing it up smokin a doob with my friend's 21-year-old son and he made the best point I've heard:

"There is no love in music anymore. The Musicians don't love their music. The girls don't love their men, the men don't love their women, there is no fraternal or sisterly love, love of country, no hope, no love of the past or love of self. Why would Anyone pay to hear such empty crap?"

Fixed to accomodate the quote

/just sayin
//rue the day? who talks like that?

factoryconnection: SonOfNel: 844 million downloads tell me a lot of people are buying the one or two songs that they want for a lot cheaper than buying the whole CD. I used to pirate the hell out of songs (not albums) for that reason. Happy iTunes, and Amazon customer now!

There is a lot of truth in that; the exception is that with a lot of "hot," mainstream acts, their singles don't make me want to listen, much less their afterthought album tracks. We have a good radio station in Charleston that plays local, regional, and indie bands. I find that if I like their singles, the album also suits me instead of being a major disappointment.

I'm sure that I'd find the same to be true on my XM but the sound quality doesn't do it for me on music. Comedy all the way, though!

You're right about XM Comedy FTW!

I'm Lars Ulrich, and I'm getting a big kickI'm gonna sue the fark outta every one of you losers.

I'm a middle class sorta young guy - no kids, no wife, lots of disposable income.

I could afford a lot of music, legally; but I'm lazy and don't much care to take the time to even really figure out what I like.

Now that I'm not worried about being sued - I'm gonna go back to stealing music. I'll start the downloading today during lunch and by dinner have entire discographies ... most of which I'll just delete because I dislike them.

So yeah, good day for me, and cheap bastards like myself.

Alebak: RIAA: Merry Christmas everyone!

Everyone: ..I.. (-_-) ..I..
FTFM

Oh, thank you, RIAA!!!

Now howsabout you go fark yourself.

Merry Christmas, you troglodyte asslickers.

I came to say IT'S A TRAP! but someone beat me to it.

CuteFluffyBunny: So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

Did you really just type that? I'll assume this was a troll but on the chance it's not:

iTunes is going out of business? Amazon is going to close their service down? It's a business model. It seems to be taking off and making them a decent chunk of change. As other's mentioned, quoting album sales vs single song sales is apples to oranges.

Years ago (12-14 years) when I worked for Time Warner, there was this "state of the company" discussion with all 300-400 employees at the office. The VP asked all of us to come up with ideas on how to better market the products. When I raised my hand and asked why I couldn't order a custom CD with 10 songs I could choose from their extensive library for $12, everyone in management looked disgusted that I would even think of such a thing.

Singles and online purchasing will be here for awhile. I'm just waiting for my cable company to understand this. I'd rather pay $20 a month for the 10 channels i watch than $45 for 140 that 130 I don't every watch.

/ Yes, i mentioned the "per channel subscription" as well.
// I learned a lot on channel advertising and how "package" systems seem to be a scam for lower viewed channels to reel in the advertisers and the customer gets it in the end.

In 2003, the industry sold 656 million albums. In 2007, the number fell to 500 million CDs and digital albums, plus 844 million paid individual song downloads -- hardly enough to make up the decline in album sales.
=============================

Er, what? 844 MILLION individual songs doesn't make up for 156 million cds?!

If it doesn't, I bet it's close...

rubi_con_man: "There is no love in music anymore. The Musicians don't love their music. The girls don't love their men, the men don't love their women, there is no fraternal or sisterly love, love of country, no hope, no love of the past or love of self. Why would Anyone pay to hear such empty crap?"

I think that true for mainstream but not for country music - which is why country is so popular right now.

Pre-Itunes Somebody loves a new song and wants it legally. They buy the album that contains the one good song and 12 other songs they hate.

Post-Itunes Somebody loves a new song and wants it legally. They buy the 1 song and leave the rest of the steaming pile to rot in the music industry archives.

Statistics report one less album sale.



Probably at least half of those 844 million individual song downloads followed the above pattern. So that would have been an additional 422 million albums sold if the record companies were still able to force the consumer to take the bad with the good.

shawnshawnery: IT'S A TRAP

it actually is a trap. While they may no longer be dragging people to court you know darn well they will take this to the ISP and try to get filtering at that level in play, among a variety of other things.

This is pretty simple here folks:

2003: 656 million albums sold
2008: 500 million albums + 844 million individual songs sold

The article's graph says that 1 track = 10 songs. If we assume that the profit is based per song and album song profit = downloaded song profit then:

2003: 6560 million songs
2008: 5844 million songs

Which is an ~10% reduction. Some of that is pirating. Some of that is the economy. Some of that is crappy artists. Some of that is a bad business model. Either way, the numbers show that the majority of people still legitimately buy their music. Who cares though, let us wave the banners of "draconian DRM!", "file-sharing is illegal!", and "off with his internets!" to stop those horrible, horrible pirates!

Whoops, meant ~11% reduction

Merry Christmas RIAA

（;￢＿￢）凸

I think the slump in sales has more to do with crappy music than illegal downloads. The industry went through the same pains when people were able to dub tapes, but it wasn't dual-deck tape players bringing down the industry...it was the crap music.

Now in This Economy^TM alot of people and especially young people like high-schoolers and college age don't want to buy a CD for $15. they would much rather spend the money on something else (like an XBOX game). Older folks don't like any of the new music coming out so they're not buying either.

I have come to the point where I am really bored with the music these days. I flip through my CD wallets and nothing jumps out at me. Nothing new and everything I like I've heard a thousand times. Everything new is crap. I'm not interested in the new Young Jeezy (or whoever) rap album that is really just a front for selling jeans and energy drinks.

I probably have bought 5 CDs total in the last 5 years. I don't have an iPod or download music anymore at all, legally or illegally. I just like to have something to listen to on my commute, but I hate radio. Now if one of my favorite bands like Green Day or Eve6 release a new album, I would buy it to support the band. If they are on tour in my area, I would see the show.

toetag: CuteFluffyBunny: So no, iTunes and Amazon have not proven people will pay for the convenience. Album sales are still heavily declining and people are still pirating. That or they're just not listening to music anymore.

Did you really just type that? I'll assume this was a troll but on the chance it's not:

iTunes is going out of business? Amazon is going to close their service down? It's a business model. It seems to be taking off...

I never said those things, asshole. I didn't claim either iTunes or Amazon to be failed ventures. What I said was, and pay attention here now, was that they didn't replace the lost revenue from people pirating music, which is what the original fart said way up there.

Now to those who've made the claim that music has just gotten shiatty and that's why people aren't buying it--people have always bought shiatty music, and they've bought it in droves. New Kids, hair metal, that traveling family, the farking monkeys, Bee Gees...and most of the 80s.

I don't meant to say it's just piracy that's hurting sales--certainly the economy will be to blame for more recent dips, but if you see a general decline paralleling the rise of file sharing programs and public awareness of them, is it so outlandish to propose a correlation? No. It's certainly not the singular cause, but it's a factor. A big one.

And will all you thieves out there stop it with the "I buy concert tickets, I buy the music if I really like it, I wouldn't even have heard of this band unless I downloaded it LOLMA12"

Shut up! You're still stealing music and you've definitely NOT made up for the lost $$ with that Beyonce concert you went to two years ago where you paid $20 for a tic-tac because you thought it was E.

Anyway I don't like the RIAA any better than you all do, but I'm not about to try and justify stealing music because they haven't found a way to make music cheap and accessible enough that I'd rather pay for it than click a button and download it for free.

Sorry the decline in sales has less to do with pirates and more to do with the crap they are producing.