wow, this is farking retarded.

The Obama administration and/or the new Congress will reverse this promptly.

Should Mr. Bush ever find himself with a serious illness, this has the potential to be a big bag of irony.


"I'm sorry Mr. Bush, but I find it morally objectionable to give you a liver transplant."

My favorite part is that receptionists are included in the laundry list. What a clusterfark.

Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

I seem to recall christian doctors turning away people even based upon looks (if they have tattoos, piercings, etc).

Salting the earth on his way out. What a despicable piece of shiat.

The only time we allow doctors to refuse treatment at the expense of someone's life, health, and well-being is where it concerns women, in particular women's sexuality and control thereof.

We do not let doctors refuse to treat a heart attack patient because he is overweight and lived an immoral life of "gluttony."

We do not let doctors broadly refuse to treat any portion of the population they happen to dislike (homosexuals, lawyers, Muslims) saying that ANY ailment they have is punishment from God (for being gay, lying, or believing in the wrong deity, respectively).

This bull shiat needs to be called out and needs to stop.

I truly and honestly hope some douchebag applies this moral-objection rule to a man and that it results in his death. As tragic as it will be, that's what it is going to take before people see how absolutely unconscionable "moral objection" rules are... because clearly the suffering of women filthy sluts isn't enough.


If you don't want to kill animals, don't work in a meat processing plant.
If you don't want to build bombs, don't become an engineer at a company that designs bombs.
If you don't want to kill people, don't join the army.

If you don't want to provide medical treatment, don't become a doctor.

Talon: I truly and honestly hope some douchebag applies this moral-objection rule to a man and that it results in his death.

Some doctor will probably refuse to treat Cheney's 5th heart attack due to a moral objection to supporting war criminals.

Didn't we learn a few months ago that the GOP considers the "health of the mother" to be morally objectionable?

Seriously, is it just me or does most "morally objectionable" medical treatment involved denying women proper treatment and viable options?

I find it morally objectionable to practice emergency medicine on people of other races. Thanks for supporting me in this, Mr. President.

Here's a little separation of powers lesson, kids. This regulation is arguably contrary to enabling legislation passed by Congress, but it's being promulgated as a regulatory rule for which the executive branch has authority to put legislation into effect. The extent to which the E branch can vary the terms of legislation is not exactly the most developed area of the law, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this rule go down in flames when someone sues.

Damn, is it Flamewar Friday on Fark?!?

First the SecNav thread, and now a reproductive rights thread.

Dammit, people, some of us have to work today!!

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

/Couldn't resist

DamnYankees: Salting the earth on his way out. What a despicable piece of shiat.

He'll have to move to a non-extradition country just to be safe. There's no way he won't be in court the rest of his life if he doesn't.

RoxtarRyan: Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

Yes. I know OB/Gyns who will not give women birth control pills if the women smoke.

Phil Moskowitz: DamnYankees: Salting the earth on his way out. What a despicable piece of shiat.

He'll have to move to a non-extradition country just to be safe. There's no way he won't be in court the rest of his life if he doesn't.

He just won't ever leave America. The US would never extradite its own ex-President to be tried in another country.

Talon: We do not let doctors refuse to treat a heart attack patient because he is overweight and lived an immoral life of "gluttony."

We do now. Welcome to Christian America.

filth: Here's a little separation of powers lesson, kids. This regulation is arguably contrary to enabling legislation passed by Congress, but it's being promulgated as a regulatory rule for which the executive branch has authority to put legislation into effect. The extent to which the E branch can vary the terms of legislation is not exactly the most developed area of the law, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this rule go down in flames when someone sues.

The problem with that is that someone will have to sue, implying that they didn't get the care they required. Hopefully the case won't stem from the ass end of a wrongful death suit.

This is dumber than the f*ckwad Muslims who work in butcher shops and then cry "discrimination" when they're asked to handle pork.

Don't want to treat people? Don't become a doctor

/subby

RoxtarRyan: Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

I seem to recall christian doctors turning away people even based upon looks (if they have tattoos, piercings, etc).

Sounds very Christian of them.

vernonFL: RoxtarRyan: Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

Yes. I know OB/Gyns who will not give women birth control pills if the women smoke.

Why wouldn't they give birth control pills to a smoker?

how is babby formed: vernonFL: RoxtarRyan: Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

Yes. I know OB/Gyns who will not give women birth control pills if the women smoke.

Why wouldn't they give birth control pills to a smoker?

There is a much higher risk of heart attacks in women who smoke while taking birth control

This is a good idea.

It is critical that homosexuals are isolated from the mainstream medical community so that they cannot infect other patients with their sexual deviancy.

This administration is to morality what an undertaker is to the healthcare system.

DslainteC: Seriously, is it just me or does most "morally objectionable" medical treatment involved denying women proper treatment and viable options?

No, it's not just you. That's pretty much the sole reason for this new rule--to make it even more difficult than it is now for women to get birth control & have abortions. Think about it--now even a freakin' receptionist can refuse to schedule an appt. if she feels the woman's procedure is "morally objectionable", even if the doctor doesn't share the same views.

RoxtarRyan: Can't doctors turn away people away if they don't agree with the treatment already?

I seem to recall christian doctors turning away people even based upon looks (if they have tattoos, piercings, etc).

If what I heard on NPR is accurate the other shoe on this declaration is that these health care providers are also no longer required to refer the patient to someone who will help them.

Phil Moskowitz: He'll have to move to a non-extradition country just to be safe. There's no way he won't be in court the rest of his life if he doesn't.

And on another level, I'm thinking W's secret service protection is going to have its work cut out for them for the rest of his useless, silverspoon life. Forget about how hard it'll be protecting the first black president, how about having to protect our beady-eyed former Douchebag-in-Chief from all the people he's wronged in the last 8 years. Domestically alone, it's a huge number, and thanks to his dying economy a lot of them have nothing to do but plot revenge.

Phil Moskowitz: He'll have to move to a non-extradition country just to be safe. There's no way he won't be in court the rest of his life if he doesn't.

Some conspiracy theorists have been postulating that he'll pardon Cheney a few days before the inauguration, resign, and leave Cheney to pardon him.

vernonFL: Yes. I know OB/Gyns who will not give women birth control pills if the women smoke.

Maybe because it has interactions with a drug?......

There are cases of pharmacists refusing to dispense birth control because of their religious beliefs though.

This severely needs to be overturned next year. Let us add it to the list of reminders why NEVER AGAIN should we have a religious zealot in the White House. He/they don't even understand what damage this does.

Speaking of doctors turning down patients, I went to a doctor for the first time (Christian) who had me take and pass a drug test in order to remain his patient. I don't think he needs legislation to keep this up.

1: Firstly, do no harm.
2: Secondly, if you're at all bothered, do nothing.
3: Thirdly, a doctor may not injure a human being, or through inaction, allow a human to come to harm, except where this would conflict with the second law.

Italics and Bold as added by the Bush Administration.

DamnYankees: Talon: I truly and honestly hope some douchebag applies this moral-objection rule to a man and that it results in his death.

Some doctor will probably refuse to treat Cheney's 5th heart attack due to a moral objection to supporting war criminals.

THIS X (how many people have been killed in this toy war now?)

Funny, I've found the last eight years of this Administration morally objectionable. Where's OUR recourse?

Wasn't this covered last week?

HA! The vast amounts of liberal WHARGARBL regarding this is astounding.

Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Besides, forcing people to do something they don't want to do, especially surgery, is a very bad idea.

Barricaded Gunman: And on another level, I'm thinking W's secret service protection is going to have its work cut out for them for the rest of his useless, silverspoon life. Forget about how hard it'll be protecting the first black president, how about having to protect our beady-eyed former Douchebag-in-Chief from all the people he's wronged in the last 8 years. Domestically alone, it's a huge number, and thanks to his dying economy a lot of them have nothing to do but plot revenge.

He only gets the protection for 10 years. Bill Clinton is the last president to receive lifetime Secret Service protection.

So in 10 years, Bushie is all alone.

This man never fails to make me shake my head in disgust.

Tenebreux: Firstly, do no harm.

The Hippocratic Oath is anti-abortion.

Also the Hippocratic Oath says you can't have sex with your patients. Whats up with that? I was a year into med school before I read that part and dropped out.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: HA! The vast amounts of liberal WHARGARBL regarding this is astounding.

Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Besides, forcing people to do something they don't want to do, especially surgery, is a very bad idea.

"Won't work" isn't the same as "Deny care".

Is W trying to make us into a theocracy on the way out? First failing to sign the UN resolution decriminalizing homosexuality, then this? That twat won't be happy until the White House is burning behind him right after he moves out.

Obama certainly has a full plate when he gets signed in.

brigid_fitch: No, it's not just you. That's pretty much the sole reason for this new rule--to make it even more difficult than it is now for women to get birth control & have abortions. Think about it--now even a freakin' receptionist can refuse to schedule an appt. if she feels the woman's procedure is "morally objectionable", even if the doctor doesn't share the same views.

The older I get, the more I come to hate people in general. When I'm old, crusty, and ready to retire, I'll probably go batshiat insane. I'll take out as many stupid, crazy people as I can manage before the police catch up with me, and then go out in a blaze of glory.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: HA! The vast amounts of liberal WHARGARBL regarding this is astounding.

Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Besides, forcing people to do something they don't want to do, especially surgery, is a very bad idea.

So the hospital let's her opt out of cases she finds "icky" then?

Just to keep things straight, is the mantra now:

"Don't like abortion? Don't have one! But you better give me one!"

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Your mother is only allowed to do that if there is another nurse available to perform the required duties. The moment your mother refuses to assist in saving the life of an "abortion case" is the moment her career as a medical professional are over.

vernonFL: Tenebreux: Firstly, do no harm.

The Hippocratic Oath is anti-abortion.

Also the Hippocratic Oath says you can't have sex with your patients. Whats up with that? I was a year into med school before I read that part and dropped out.

What if it's saving the life of the mother. Does the Hippocratic oath say whose life is more valuable?

/honestly have no idea

Tenebreux: Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: HA! The vast amounts of liberal WHARGARBL regarding this is astounding.

Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Besides, forcing people to do something they don't want to do, especially surgery, is a very bad idea.

"Won't work" isn't the same as "Deny care".

Right, just because she won't do it doesn't mean that they will find someone who will, or at least refer the patient to another provider.

Great now I will have to go to Mexico to get that designer vaginal surgery for my 8 year old daughter.

Mordac Lord of Unholy Fury: Want to know a secret? Health Care providers have done this for over 30 years. My mom won't work on abortion cases. Every hospital she has worked at has allowed her to opt out of those types of cases since the day she started as a nurse. And for the record, she is pro-choice.

Prior to this rule, health providers were ethically obligated to state their objection to the patient, and refer them to another provider upon request.

After this rule, providers can deny any procedure they are "morally opposed to" for any reason without comment, without referral. This also pre-empts all state laws to the contrary.

It would be a great way to make sure you only perform the most lucrative procedures, anything that doesn't have big margins can just be deemed "morally objectionable".

DrillSergeantPoopyPants: Just to keep things straight, is the mantra now:

"Don't like abortion? Don't have one! But you better give me one!"

So under this declaration, you would think it's okay for a doctor to refuse surgery for a lung cancer patient because he doesn't agree with smoking?

How about not doing that emergency bypass because his morals say that people that are addicted to fast food are in a moral delima.

Possibly even saying that they "morally object" to bringing another conservative asshat into the world, so they refuse to deliver your future wife's baby.

it's at odds with what it means to be a doctor.

Okay, this is the Hippocratic Oath. No, doctors today are not sworn to uphold it. I have highlighted my favorite parts:


I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:


To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.

I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.

Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.

Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.

So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.