| You have a ceasefire in place. Do you; A) honour your side of the bargain; B) fire rockets at your enemy anyway; or C) fire rockets, blame enemy for blockading you and call off truce so you can fire more rockets? (news.bbc.co.uk) | 217 |
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| z_gringo
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2008-12-19 05:46:01 AM |
| Ed Finnerty | 2008-12-19 08:27:58 AM |

| clancifer
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2008-12-19 08:35:17 AM |
| Pocket Ninja
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2008-12-19 08:44:17 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 09:00:34 AM |
| SpaceyCat
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2008-12-19 09:02:26 AM |
| Ed Finnerty | 2008-12-19 09:03:33 AM |

| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 09:10:13 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 09:36:13 AM |
| MasterThief
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2008-12-19 09:43:32 AM |
| overlord_mike
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2008-12-19 10:41:37 AM |
| Marcus Aurelius
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2008-12-19 10:46:23 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 10:54:05 AM |
Sharon Aide Says Goal of Gaza Plan Is to Halt Road Map (Salon Oct 2004)
The aide, Dov Weisglass -- until recently Sharon's chief of staff, his personal attorney and still one of his closest advisers -- said the primary goals of the proposal to withdraw the 8,100 Jewish settlers from Gaza were to strengthen Israel's hold on its more numerous settlements in the West Bank and to freeze the political process as a way to indefinitely block the creation of a Palestinian state.
Israeli Causes Uproar Over Status of Road Map (NYT Oct 2004) (cant direct link it)
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/06/international/middleeast/06CND-MIDE.html
Israel's proposed withdrawal from the Gaza Strip is intended to put the issue of Palestinian statehood on indefinite hold, a close aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said in an interview that was published today and immediately stirred controversy.
...snip...
Mr. Sharon has himself dropped many hints that he is less than enthusiastic about the road map, which would require many concessions from Israel. In a recent newspaper interview, Mr. Sharon said Israel was not following the peace plan, which stalled amid ongoing violence shortly after it was launched in June of 2003.
Still, Mr. Weisglass' published remarks were unusually blunt. He described the planned withdrawal of Israeli settlers from Gaza and a small part of the West Bank as a substitute for the road map, not a means of reviving the moribund peace process, as the Bush administration has stated.
"The significance of our disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Mr. Weisglass was quoted as saying in Haaretz, a liberal daily often critical of Mr. Sharon's government. "It supplies the formaldehyde necessary so there is no political process with Palestinians."
"When you freeze the process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state," Mr. Weisglass added. "Effectively, this whole package called a Palestinian state, with all it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda."
In the interview, Mr. Weisglass also said that the Israeli position had the "authority and permission" of the White House and Congress.
...snip...
In the interview, Mr. Weisglass said that 190,000 of the 240,000 Israeli settlers would not be moved from their current homes.
Also
Israel's identity crisis (Salon May 2005)www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/485989.html
Analysis / The adviser that roared
Ha'aretz 10/8/2004
Something nasty happened to Dov Weisglass when he emerged from the position of whisperer into Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's ear to public exposure. The statements he made in an interview to Haaretz correspondent Ari Shavit, to the effect that the disengagement plan is intended to freeze the political process and postpone the Palestinian state "indefinitely," triggered off stormy political and international reactions.
The big freeze
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:04:43 AM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:05:28 AM |
| Crosshair
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2008-12-19 11:10:58 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:23:12 AM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:26:28 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:32:52 AM |
Roadmap derailed
An Uncertain Road Map (WaPo June 2002)
A Plan Without a Map (NYT June 2002)
• This one has the advantage at least of seeming to better reflect the president's own world view. He placed most of the onus on the Palestinians: The clear message was they shouldn't expect anything -- not a state, not a provisional state, not an Israeli withdrawal -- until they get rid of Yasser Arafat as their leader and clean up their collective act.
• Such a one-sided approach might be appropriate if Israel's government were committed to the two-state vision that Mr. Bush claimed as his own yesterday. After all, the president is right that Mr. Arafat has shown a willingness to use terrorism -- the unacceptable murder of innocent civilians -- to further political goals, and that such terror should not be rewarded. But Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has made clear that he sees a two-state solution many years distant at best. His government has shown no inclination to modify the settlement policy that makes an ultimate agreement ever more difficult.
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Arafat Wants No. 2 Man In the P.L.O. As the Premier (NYT March 2003)
----↓↓↓↓-----
A Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (April 2003 US Dept of State)
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U.S. Groups Seek To Cast Peace 'Map' As a Threat (Forward May 2003)
Bush's Maneuvers Bewilder Jerusalem and Activists (Forward June 2003
From determination to wimpiness (Haaretz)
Israel Seals Off Gaza After Brief Opening Meant to Ease Plight of Palestinian Workers (NYT May 2003)
Sharon's Refusal To Accept Plan Vexes Powell Trip; After Visit, Israel Seals Gaza Strip (WaPo May 2003 pg. A.12)
Abstract (Summary)
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell clashed with his Egyptian counterpart today over Israel's refusal to endorse a new U.S.- backed peace plan. Powell said it made "no difference" whether Israel declared that it accepted the document, but Egypt's foreign minister, Ahmed Maher, said embracing it was important, remarking that " 'accept' is not a dirty word."
Further complicating the picture during Powell's visit for talks with Israeli and Palestinian leaders, the Israeli military imposed the tightest crackdown on travel between Israel and the Gaza Strip since the current Palestinian uprising began in September 2000, closing Gaza's borders to everyone except diplomats and aid workers. Maher indicated the tightened closure undercut earlier gestures announced by Israel to ease Palestinian suffering that Powell had hailed as "very promising."
Powell met Sunday with the new Palestinian Authority prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, and [Ariel Sharon] and Abbas have agreed to their first meeting Friday. But Powell refused to meet with the Authority's president and longtime Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat. Maher noted that Arafat selected Abbas and said Egypt would continue to meet with him. "We continue to recognize him as the leader of the Palestinian people," he said.
B
No Discussion Of Settlements, Diplomats Say (Forward (May 2003)
American-Israeli Relations Strained Following Attack (Forward June 2003)
Bush Under Fire in Congress for Criticizing Israel (NYT June 2003)
Bush's Shift on Israel Was Swift (WaPo June 2003)
Israel-US rift emerges over security fence issue (JPost June 2003)
PA (Palestinian Authority) paper makes racist, sexist remarks about Condoleeza Rice (JPost June 2003)
Sharon rejects Bush's call to take down 'security' fence (Independent July 2003)
• Mr Sharon met Mr Bush just four days after the President - with Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Prime Minister standing beside him - called the fence (more properly a wall) a "problem" that did not help the road-map peace plan being pushed by the United States and other big powers for an overall Middle East settlement by the end of 2005.
Israel to Continue Building Security Fence Criticized by Bush (NYT July 2003)
U.S. May Reduce Aid Plan to Get Israel to Halt Barrier (NYT Aug 2003)
Bush Eases Pressure on Both Sides Over Peace Plan (Forward Aug 2003)
• Seeking to prevent the unraveling of its so-called "road map" to Israeli-Palestinian peace, the Bush administration is scaling back its demands on each side in hopes of making it easier for each of them to comply. The apparent aim is to ease domestic political pressures on the leaders, as well as to defuse charges from each side that the other side is failing to comply.
U.S. Cutting Loan Guarantees To Oppose Israeli Settlements (NYT Sept 2003)
• The action was almost totally symbolic. It came on the same day that Israel sold $1.6 billion of bonds on Wall Street, all backed by a guarantee of repayment by the United States government under legislation passed last spring that provides Israel with up to $3 billion in loan guarantees annually for three years.
It is the first such move the administration has taken against Israel.
U.S. confirms fence prompted loan cuts (Haaretz 11/27/031)
• it was agreed that the United States will trim $289.5 million from the $3 billion in guarantees granted to Israel this year. Washington has granted Israel a total of $9 billion in guarantees over three years.
"The fact is they [the United States] aren't putting any political pressure on us to do anything on the substantive issues of the political process," Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Army Radio yesterday.
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:37:27 AM |
Christian Science Monitor Aug 12, 1992More Here
(Abstract)
The loan-guarantee request was first tendered by Israel 18 months ago. Despite heavy pressure from pro-Israeli lawmakers and lobby groups to go along, Mr. [Bush] insisted on linking the guarantees to a halt in construction of Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip. Israel was unhappy, but administration officials believed that the unregulated expansion of settlements encouraged by the Likud government of Yitzhak Shamir was a major obstacle to progress in Middle East peace talks.
Bush and [Yitzhak Rabin] met reporters Aug. 11 to discuss their first meeting since Rabin was elected prime minister last June. A former ambassador to Washington during the Nixon administration, Rabin is a popular and well-known figure in the US. The Bush administration has welcomed the new prime minister's more moderate views on Middle East peacemaking.
In his meeting with Bush, Rabin also reaffirmed his commitment to putting Middle East peace talks on a fast track. Unlike Shamir, Rabin is eager to coordinate his negotiating strategy with the US, which Rabin will count on to help pressure the Arab parties to the talks - Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and the Palestinians.
============
Christian Science Monitor Jan 13, 1992
When Israel formally requested the loan guarantee last September, Israeli officials attempted to go over President [Bush]'s head to win passage in Congress. Mr. Bush responded by calling himself "one lonely little guy" standing up to "a thousand lobbyists working the other side of the question." Quiet compromise sought
The $10 billion sought by Israel is part of an estimated $40 billion needed to help the Jewish state absorb up to 1 million Soviet immigrants over the next five years. Under the arrangement, the US would not be giving or lending money directly to Israel. Instead the US would guarantee commercial loans, enabling Israel to obtain more favorable credit terms.
Israel's reputation among American voters has ebbed in recent months. A majority of Americans now support the idea of placing conditions on future aid to Israel, including loan guarantees. The poll data may be one reason that the pro-Israeli lobby is keeping a lower-than-usual profile. Another may be that many American Jews are opposed to the [Yitzhak Shamir] government's settlements policy.
------
The Washington Post Company Sep 28, 1992
High-profile staff members from various Washington lobbying firms are actively campaigning for Democratic nominee Bill Clinton. Among them: David Ifshin, adviser to Clinton on U.S.-Israeli relations and general counsel to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the leading pro-Jewish lobby, and Samuel Berger, a foreign affairs adviser to the Clinton campaign and a trade issues lobbyist. Charles Dolan, a senior vice president of Cassidy Associates, a D.C.-based lobby group, is also a Clinton adviser.
Washington Post Company Sep 10, 1992
The other day, for instance, Bush took back his characterization of himself as a president being victimized by the so-called Jewish lobby. During last year's dispute over loan guarantees to Israel, Bush said he was "one lonely little guy" up against "1,000 lobbyists" - actually, mostly ordinary citizens in Washington for the day. Having won that fight and needing the Jewish vote in November, Bush "expressed his regret" to the B'nai B'rith convention here. Trailing in the polls, Bush now knows what "lonely" really is.
Washington Post Company Aug 17, 1992
Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin has bluntly criticized past actions of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, the powerful pro-Israel congressional lobby, saying it had needlessly inflamed U.S.-Israeli relations, informed sources said today.
The sources said [Yitzhak Rabin] complained in a private meeting in Washington last week that AIPAC had steered Israel wrongly toward a confrontation with the Bush administration over U.S.-backed loan guarantees. Rabin declared that he wanted to avoid such confrontations, the sources said.
Rabin's comments came at the end of a U.S. visit in which he secured a commitment from President Bush to seek the $10 billion in loan guarantees from Congress. Bush had refused to grant the loan guarantees to former prime minister Yitzhak Shamir because of continued Jewish settlement in Israeli-occupied Arab territories. The deadlock was broken after Rabin defeated Shamir in elections June 23 and pledged to curb settlement construction without halting it entirely.
Rabin leveled his criticism in a private meeting at the Madison Hotel in Washington with Tom Dine, executive director of AIPAC, David Steiner, the group's president, and three former presidents of the congressional lobbying group: Ed Levy, Abe Pollin and Mayer Mitchell. Five Israeli officials were present.
Rabin's remarks were considered highly unusual, given the traditional clout that AIPAC has wielded in Congress on behalf of Israel.
Officials close to Rabin said he believes that American Jewish organizations should not play a central role in the diplomacy between the United States and Israel. Rabin made this point to the AIPAC leaders at the outset of what became a long session on future legislative strategy, sources said.
Rabin also believes that such contacts should be with the executive branch, regardless of who is in the White House, and that Congress should play a supporting role but not be used as a lever against the administration, officials said. AIPAC had spearheaded an effort by the American Jewish community to win the loan guarantees from Congress despite objections from the administration - an ultimately futile campaign that was the crux of Rabin's complaint, officials said.
Some Labor Party figures here say also that AIPAC became too closely associated with Shamir's Likud Party. Since Rabin defeated Shamir, there has been intense behind-the-scenes jockeying in American Jewish organizations between those who were close to Likud and those who felt excluded by Shamir's right-wing government.
Asked for comment about the Rabin meeting, Dine, the AIPAC executive director, said in a statement that Rabin "expressed unhappiness with the political tensions that occurred last year among the Jewish community, Congress and the administration over the loan gurantees." But, he added, "most of the meeting was devoted to constructive discussion" of legislative strategy, and Rabin "clearly hopes to have strong support from the Congress as well as the administration."
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:42:10 AM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:43:12 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:45:03 AM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:48:18 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:49:47 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 11:51:38 AM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 11:56:49 AM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 12:06:35 PM |

I think there is a strain within the pro-Israel community that says unless you adopt a unwavering pro-Likud approach to Israel that you're anti-Israel and that can't be the measure of our friendship with Israel. If we cannot have a honest dialogue about how do we achieve these goals, then we're not going to make progress. And frankly some of the commentary that I've seen which suggests guilt by association or the notion that unless we are never ever going to ask any difficult questions about how we move peace forward or secure Israel that is non military or non belligerent or doesn't talk about just crushing the opposition that that somehow is being soft or anti-Israel, I think we're going to have problems moving forward. And that I think is something we have to have an honest dialogue about.
| DrillSergeantPoopyPants | 2008-12-19 12:09:03 PM |

| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 12:09:18 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:10:12 PM |
| dhudd | 2008-12-19 12:10:36 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:12:05 PM |
| Baby Diego
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2008-12-19 12:13:01 PM |
| UnFark | 2008-12-19 12:13:11 PM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 12:13:18 PM |
| Mnemia | 2008-12-19 12:13:24 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:15:25 PM |
| NightSteel | 2008-12-19 12:16:52 PM |
| DarkLancelot
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2008-12-19 12:16:53 PM |
| Phil Moskowitz | 2008-12-19 12:18:19 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:18:38 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:19:40 PM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 12:21:54 PM |
| Party Boy
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2008-12-19 12:22:30 PM |
| CynicalLA | 2008-12-19 12:22:44 PM |
| LarryDan43 | 2008-12-19 12:23:03 PM |
| Sev79 | 2008-12-19 12:25:19 PM |
| KaponoFor3
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2008-12-19 12:25:27 PM |
| Tenebreux | 2008-12-19 12:25:54 PM |
