I'd never heard of this guy Warren. Is Obama joining the guys church or something? or is this just a one time 'honor'?

I choose to feel good about Obama and religion because of this speech. (new window)

i think rick warren is an idiot when it comes to a reproductive rights and gay rights. i also know that those positions are actually pretty mainstream in the evangelical community. and lastly, so long as his only crime is disagreeing with me, i don't really care if he gives an invocation.

i think there's a really funny and really sad correlation going on right now. some in the christian right are mad at warren for daring to go to the inauguration of a pro-choice, pro-gay rights president. some on the left are mad at obama for daring to invite him.

but to me, both sides look the same. different sides of the same coin. both are angry that their guy is acknowledging the other side.

First pick of Obama's I don't like.

Lucky for me it's not for anything real.

Still think it was a bad choice.

There are lot of religious people who are not bigoted ass clowns.

Obama could show America the religious doesn't mean being a bigot.

Wut?

Obama pissing off those who he'd previously convinced he was 'with'?

HAHAH!

You lazy douchebags never bothered to look into his history one friggin IOTA!

Headline has the usual Fark-worthy relationship to the article. As to Obama's choice, I think it's a good one. Warren isn't being given a policy role and Obama is making clear that he doesn't necessarily agree with Warren's position. I see this as an attempt by Obama to reach out to evangelicals, to reassure them that he is going to be the President of all Americans. I think it would be wise of the left not to look all whiny and butthurt about a purely ceremonial honor going to someone who, for all that he's to the right on social issues, is genuinely interested in dialogue with those on the left.

burndtdan: and lastly, so long as his only crime is disagreeing with me, i don't really care if he gives an invocation.

Nicely said.

Ha-ha! Your Messiah likes an intelligent design loving, misogynistic, homophobe more than you!

except one side wants to deny rights to gays, and is now getting a presence at the invocation. Of the millions of people who could have been chosen by Obama, I think this guy is a big asshat politicized bucket of fail.


Obama's saying gay rights to marry matter nothing. After their tireless work to get him elected. Its a bad precedent, unless theres some quid pro quo coming.

Warren and his ilk can DIAF. Religious bigotry has no place in government.

burndtdan: i think there's a really funny and really sad correlation going on right now. some in the christian right are mad at warren for daring to go to the inauguration of a pro-choice, pro-gay rights president. some on the left are mad at obama for daring to invite him.

Yeah, I guess that is true. By taking the high road you take a lot away from them.

And it's just for a ceremony.

But I still don't like.

/Oh wait I forgot I am a partisan "Obamitron" that always agree with him and the DNC.
/At least that is what I am told in many threads.

Generation_D: Obama's saying gay rights to marry matter nothing. After their tireless work to get him elected. Its a bad precedent, unless theres some quid pro quo coming.

Obama believes exactly as Rick Warren does in regards to gay marriage.

NYZooMan: Wut?

Obama pissing off those who he'd previously convinced he was 'with'?

HAHAH!

You lazy douchebags never bothered to look into his history one friggin IOTA!

So you are saying he is not liberal enough for America?

What is your point exactly?

A couple things:

On repro rights/gay rights Rick Warren's wrong wrong wrong. I just hope Obama does the right thing re: DADT and DOMA to make up for this problem of symbolism.

On organizing groups of people in a bottom-up sort of way so that local communities provide for their own needs, Warren's done some pretty innovative work. Something we need right now. I'm also sure that that Purpose Driven Life book has some merit (not that i'm about to pick it up).

I for one welcome our new Megachurch-based overlords.

Warren is essentially a bigoted hypocrite, which plays well in the fundie community. Obama could have done much better.

soy_bomb: Obama believes exactly as Rick Warren does in regards to gay marriage.

Rick Warren believes in civil unions and same sex couples should have the same rights?

Really?

soy_bomb: Generation_D: Obama's saying gay rights to marry matter nothing. After their tireless work to get him elected. Its a bad precedent, unless theres some quid pro quo coming.

Obama believes exactly as Rick Warren does in regards to gay marriage.

So Rick Warren opposed Prop. 8, then? Surely he must, if he believes "exactly" as Obama does.

Corvus: Rick Warren believes in civil unions and same sex couples should have the same rights?

Civil Unions ≠ Gay Marriage.

/separate but equal?

It's a pretty coldly calculated move. It holds a hand out to evangelicals, but it's purely symbolic.

That's the subtext. People tend to get caught up in symbols, but someone like Obama just uses them for diplomacy.

All you people wanting to boycott and shut down everyone who voted or even thought positively about Prop 8 are the ones who should be ashamed of yourselves, and should rightly feel biatch-slapped by Obama.

With this pick, he basically told you that despite your tantrums, this guy and his beliefs are part of the national conversation, and you aren't going to shut anyone up.

Biological Ali: So Rick Warren opposed Prop. 8, then? Surely he must, if he believes "exactly" as Obama does.

Proposition 8 is a constitutional amendment to the California constitution not a belief. I am surprised you cannot tell the difference.

Generation_D: Religious bigotry has no place in government.

Lucky he hasn't been picked for a position in government then, isn't it?

soy_bomb: Civil Unions ≠ Gay Marriage.

/separate but equal?

When did Obama donate to proposition 8 exactly?

oldernell: Warren is essentially a bigoted hypocrite, which plays well in the fundie community. Obama could have done much better.

Obama did do much better: Joe Lowery (also gonna be there) is a farking rock star who pissed all over Bush while he was sitting there at Coretta Scott King's funeral. Link (new window)

Corvus: But I still don't like.

i wouldn't have picked warren, but i'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

Obama sucks at picking pastors.

soy_bomb: Biological Ali: So Rick Warren opposed Prop. 8, then? Surely he must, if he believes "exactly" as Obama does.

Proposition 8 is a constitutional amendment to the California constitution not a belief. I am surprised you cannot tell the difference.

Ah, so you're just being irrelevant again. Got it.

soy_bomb: Biological Ali: So Rick Warren opposed Prop. 8, then? Surely he must, if he believes "exactly" as Obama does.

Proposition 8 is a constitutional amendment to the California constitution not a belief. I am surprised you cannot tell the difference.

Yeah so when did Obama said he "believed" prop 8 was right?

When did he say he believed prop 8 was right then?

You weren't lying to us about Obama were you?

Corvus: When did Obama donate to proposition 8 exactly?

What? Could you be a little more cryptic? It helps.

soy_bomb: Corvus: Rick Warren believes in civil unions and same sex couples should have the same rights?

Civil Unions ≠ Gay Marriage.

/separate but equal?

Yea, didn't that Gay Highschool thread put to rest the whole "Separate But Equal" crap?

Burndtdan is right - both are sides of the same coin. Just to prove it to you...

One side finds it morally objectionable that someone would want to deny the rights of gays to be married. They see this as a Civil Rights injustice on par with the treatment of Blacks following slavery.

The other side finds it morally objectionable that someone would want to kill a child before it has been born. They see this as a heinous act of murder on par with the mass killings of Nazi Germany, Khmer Rouge, the Rape of Nanking etc...

Both feel they have the high ground because their position is the Morally Correct one. Both sides unwilling to compromise or treat their opponents civilly are douchebags.

DrillSergeantPoopyPants: All you people wanting to boycott and shut down everyone who voted or even thought positively about Prop 8 are the ones who should be ashamed of yourselves, and should rightly feel biatch-slapped by Obama.

With this pick, he basically told you that despite your tantrums, this guy and his beliefs are part of the national conversation, and you aren't going to shut anyone up.

Wow, you're talking to a few stray extremists. Most supporters of gay rights realize this is an ongoing battle that will end in victory, and don't want to scream their heads off at the current majority just because they feel righteous. A threatened boycott here or there is nothing compared to the positive grass-roots movement that the Prop 8 passage has sparked.

soy_bomb: Obama believes exactly as Rick Warren does in regards to gay marriage.

really?

Obama rejects proposed California gay marriage ban
(new window)

"And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states," Obama wrote.

And I thought Warren donated to prop 8


Wow, what a giant pile of FAIL you discovered!

Gay people want equal right not donuts you fatfark.

Corvus: Yeah so when did Obama said he "believed" prop 8 was right? When did he say he believed prop 8 was right then? You weren't lying to us about Obama were you?

2/10. Barack Obama is on the record stating that he is personally against gay marriage. We all know this. You need to do better with your trolling.

Corvus: soy_bomb: Biological Ali: So Rick Warren opposed Prop. 8, then? Surely he must, if he believes "exactly" as Obama does.

Proposition 8 is a constitutional amendment to the California constitution not a belief. I am surprised you cannot tell the difference.

Yeah so when did Obama said he "believed" prop 8 was right?

When did he say he believed prop 8 was right then?

You weren't lying to us about Obama were you?

He didn't say he supported Prop 8 although he did say he does not support Gay Marriages but Civil Unions. I also believe he wanted to leave the decision up to the states which would indicate his support of how Californians voted not necessarily the policy they enacted.

I could be wrong on that last part, but by and large most people agree with the O Man - No to Marriage but yes to Civil Unions and equal rights.

soy_bomb: Obama believes exactly as Rick Warren does in regards to gay marriage.

Hmmmm

Warren:
Warren has every right to his views on the definition of marriage, which he insists (not without foundation) is mandated in the Bible. Millions of Americans - a majority, I'm sure - agree with him. "If you believe what the Bible says about marriage," he declared on his website, "you need to support Proposition 8."

Obama:

"And that is why I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states," Obama wrote.

Doesn't sound the same to me, now does it?

soy_bomb = F A I L

Thanks guys you turned a thread of liberals bashing Obama for this choice into a thread defending your stupid attacks.

Keep up the good work on uniting us!!

soy_bomb: Corvus: Yeah so when did Obama said he "believed" prop 8 was right? When did he say he believed prop 8 was right then? You weren't lying to us about Obama were you?

2/10. Barack Obama is on the record stating that he is personally against gay marriage. We all know this. You need to do better with your trolling.

Being *personally* against gay marriage DOES NOT MEAN he was for Proposition 8. I'm personally against abortion, but I don't think it should be illegal.

Link (new window)

Barack Obama Opposed Proposition 8. Not as forcefully or thoroughly as most of us would have liked, but he had a national election to win. What more would you like to know?

Corvus: Wow, what a giant pile of FAIL you discovered!

Take it from a lesbian (new window)

Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions:

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

/Rick Warren is against gay marriage
//Barack Obama is against gay marriage
///How hard is that to understand?
////Civil Unions is not Gay Marriage

DrillSergeantPoopyPants: All you people wanting to boycott and shut down everyone who voted or even thought positively about Prop 8 are the ones who should be ashamed of yourselves, and should rightly feel biatch-slapped by Obama.

With this pick, he basically told you that despite your tantrums, this guy and his beliefs are part of the national conversation, and you aren't going to shut anyone up.

You know I kinda agree with some of the substance of this, but I really think the tone misses Obama's point. He genuinely wants to be what Bush cynically lied about being in 2000: "a uniter, not a divider." I don't think for a second that he wants to "biatchslap" the Prop8 boycott types. I think he realizes, though, that the best and fastest route to victory for gay rights is not via a deeply antagonized, frightened and hostile America divided against itself.

A lot of you people are thinking about this solely in terms of "why are we giving housespace to Rick Warren" but you have to remember that for a lot of evangelicals the question is "why is Rick Warren giving housespace to Obama"? If Obama can go out of his way to show respect for the evangelicals even when clearly stating his differences with them then he scores a far more important victory for progress on gay rights than he would by, say, choosing an openly gay clergyman for this role.

The evangelicals and the mormons scored the narrowest of victories in the Prop 8 fight, and they did it mostly by winning massively among the elderly. Victory on gay marriage is a demographic inevitability, but it's going to happen sooner if the conservative right find themselves in an actual conversation with the left about the issue, rather than circling the wagons and trying to keep the evil satanist gays from touching Timmy's privates.

terriblist: Being *personally* against gay marriage DOES NOT MEAN he was for Proposition 8. I'm personally against abortion, but I don't think it should be illegal.

Where did I ever mention Proposition 8? Other people did and I responded to that. I said Rick and Barack have belief on gay marriage. Go grasp other straws.

Warren: "If you believe what the Bible says about marriage," he declared on his website, "you need to support Proposition 8."


He also doesn't point out that "If you believe what the Bible says about marriage," you also stone your wife if she cheats on you and you have a woman marry her husband's brother if he dies.

Why doesn't warren make these laws too?

Rick Warren did the Obama-Mccain interviews. Must be someone Obama respects.

soy_bomb: Where did I ever mention Proposition 8? Other people did and I responded to that. I said Rick and Barack have belief on gay marriage. Go grasp other straws.

Prop 8 is about gay marriage, stop pretending to be clueless.

soy_bomb: I said Rick and Barack have belief on gay marriage

the same belief, is what I mean.

soy_bomb: 2/10. Barack Obama is on the record stating that he is personally against gay marriage. We all know this. You need to do better with your trolling.

You do realize that it's not the abstract concept of 'belief' that most liberals would take issue with, but rather, the notion that it's okay to force those beliefs onto people that don't share them, right? Obama has some religious beliefs that many might disagree with, but he is also on record opposing governance guided by religion (see JustinCase's link).

soy_bomb: Corvus: Wow, what a giant pile of FAIL you discovered!

Take it from a lesbian (new window)

Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions:

Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

/Rick Warren is against gay marriage
//Barack Obama is against gay marriage
///How hard is that to understand?
////Civil Unions is not Gay Marriage

You're changing the terms of the debate, dude. You haven't addressed the fact that Obama wanted gay Californians to keep their right to marry. And that Rick Warren felt the opposite way.

Corvus: Prop 8 is about gay marriage, stop pretending to be clueless.

In California only, stop being obstinate. I support gay marriage, Barack does not. Civil Unions are not Gay Marriage.

soy_bomb: terriblist: Being *personally* against gay marriage DOES NOT MEAN he was for Proposition 8. I'm personally against abortion, but I don't think it should be illegal.

Where did I ever mention Proposition 8? Other people did and I responded to that. I said Rick and Barack have belief on gay marriage. Go grasp other straws.

Stop being so obviously obtuse you obdurate ombudsman of FAIL.

Corvus: He also doesn't point out that "If you believe what the Bible says about marriage," you also stone your wife if she cheats on you and you have a woman marry her husband's brother if he dies.

Why doesn't warren make these laws too?

Just hazarding a guess here but I would say... Because that's no longer Cannon Law?

See, just cuz it's in the Bible doesn't mean the Vatican hasn't made some decisions regarding the "laws" laid down in it as time progressed.

Nice red herring though - personally I don't like fish.

By the way, if you want one good reason for Obama to choose Warren for this role, look at the thread on Ann Coulter a couple above this one. The whole "Obama's an atheist who will be sworn in on the Quran" line is going to get a WHOLE lot harder to play with Warren in the mix.

And yes, I know that that line only plays to people who didn't vote for Obama. But Obama's the President now (well, will be on the day in question)--the President of ALL Americans. He's no longer in candidate mode.

soy_bomb: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage.

being opposed to gay marraige is not the same as thinking a law should be passed to ban it.

They are very different positions. Obama's and Warren's positions are not the same. You are an idiot.

I don't smoke but I don't think it should be made 100% illegal. You are being an idiot.

But thanks for uniting us in this thread again.

terriblist: You're changing the terms of the debate, dude. You haven't addressed the fact that Obama wanted gay Californians to keep their right to marry. And that Rick Warren felt the opposite way.

No. I said that Rick Warren and Barack Obama had the same view of Gay Marriage. I have been consistent. Others brought up Prop. 8 not me. I disagree with both Rick Warren and Barack Obama when it comes to gay marriage. Take it up with Barack not me.