that election is STILL going on?

Franken just can't get over being beaten by a lowly Republican pond scum.

Minnesota state officials ruled that absentee ballots rejected because of clerical or administrative errors should, in the end, be counted.

I really don't care abut this race but FFS why would these votes NOT be counted?

Gary doesn't like it when you count absentee ballots. We might here from our troops.

jimmyhaha: Gary doesn't like it when you count absentee ballots. We might here from our troops.

Only votes for Republicans should be counted.

I Said:

I really don't care abut this race but FFS why would these votes NOT be counted?

because most of those votes go towards the Democrat and that just isn't fair. Republicans consider it cheating when you don't stop counting votes at just the precise time that the vote tally implies the Republican is winning.

GaryPDX: that election is STILL going on?

Franken just can't get over being beaten by a lowly Republican pond scum.

Especially when he is winning by four votes.

Were these the votes that the Democrat leader happened to "find" in the back seat of her car?

Many of these votes have come from traditionally Democratic locales where, for one reason or another, voters are more likely to make clerical errors when completing their ballots.

Great, so people that can't fill out forms or file them properly will be deciding who becomes a US senator.

Nemo's Brother: Were these the votes that the Democrat leader happened to "find" in the back seat of her car?

no, those weren't absentee ballots. and no, because that story turned out to be fake anyway.

just came in here to remind everyone that Al Franken is a giant smug, hypocritical douchenozzle.

/Coleman too, but not by nearly as much.

citizen905: Especially when he is winning by four votes

No, that's just what Al Franken claims. There are lots of contested ballots that haven't been added to the vote totals. Franken's team says they believe that when those are considered, they will be ahead by 4 votes. But, they supply no evidence for this.

It is the last week, it gets finalized on Friday the 19th.

I think the people of Minnesota should be wondering why Norm made it such a close race.

// holograms, sez I
// Cliff Clavin voted Franken

the_vegetarian_cannibal: just came in here to remind everyone that Al Franken is a giant smug, hypocritical douchenozzle.

/Coleman too, but not by nearly as much.

I came here to say this, only reversed.

GaryPDX: that election is STILL going on?

Franken just can't get over being beaten by a lowly Republican pond scum.

You know Minnesota election law automatically triggered the recount right? And it wasn't asked for by Franken or Coleman?

/Yeah, cause counting every vote is a bad thing, ever.

GaryPDX: Franken just can't get over being beaten by a lowly Republican pond scum.

Is my snark sense tingling?

Nope, that's my bullshiat detector

Something_Creative: /Yeah, cause counting every vote is a bad thing, ever.

Funny how the importance of making sure "every vote counts" only matters in close races. I don't see anyone making a stink about these issues when the margin is 60/40. If "every vote should count", it shouldn't matter how close the race is.

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Something_Creative: /Yeah, cause counting every vote is a bad thing, ever.

Funny how the importance of making sure "every vote counts" only matters in close races. I don't see anyone making a stink about these issues when the margin is 60/40. If "every vote should count", it shouldn't matter how close the race is.

If someone is winning by 2 million votes and there are 50 in dispute those votes will not change the outcome hence will not matter.

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Something_Creative: /Yeah, cause counting every vote is a bad thing, ever.

Funny how the importance of making sure "every vote counts" only matters in close races. I don't see anyone making a stink about these issues when the margin is 60/40. If "every vote should count", it shouldn't matter how close the race is.

Hey, I absolutely agree. I am, by no means, a Franken fan but we've got the most advanced democracy in the world and we can't even count votes right? Something doesn't quite seem right. I think that every single vote should be counted every single time, and I also think that the media should back off their desire to be the first to call races in favor of accuracy. See Florida 2000.
That being said, my opinion might have been altered when Fark posted a link a while back on the rejected ballots. If these people can't fill in a bubble with a pencil, let alone abstain from writing "Lizard people" on the ballot, maybe they don't deserve to have a say.

Old news is great.

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: Something_Creative: /Yeah, cause counting every vote is a bad thing, ever.

Funny how the importance of making sure "every vote counts" only matters in close races. I don't see anyone making a stink about these issues when the margin is 60/40. If "every vote should count", it shouldn't matter how close the race is.

Because everyone realizes that a recount of a 60/40 race would yield the same result no matter how many times they recounted and it'd be a waste of time and money. In the end, we're only trying to find out one thing- who got more votes.

You can request one if you want, but outside a certain range you have to pay for it.

How dare he!

Libruls up to their usual shenanigans. Farking liberals...if only we had someone brave enough, bold enough, to figure out how to take a bunch of you coastal elitist fake Americans out of the picture...

if only...
if only...

/Ooh, good thing we never caught Osama Bin Laden.

So, let me get this straight. Ballots that were legally rejected for legitimate reasons will be counted. AND Votes that cannot be confirmed will be counted anyway?

FTA
The state had, during the recount process, been unable to locate 133 ballots from the Minneapolis area. But rather than disregarding these votes, officials decided that they will use the results from Election Day.

Isn't that the point of a recount, to verify the original reporting. If you are going to disregard the recount and go with the original number, why have the recount at all?

This HufPo item is the product of either incompetence or willful ignorance. The board "suggested" that the counties count the "wrongfully rejected" ballots because it has no power to order them to. Some counties are going to do it and others aren't. The problems are twofold: 1) If the counties that decide to count them are primarily Democratic, that gives an unfair advantage to Franken. 2) There's no uniform standard for what constitutes "wrongfully rejected" so each county is making it up for itself. That's a situation that's ripe for abuse.

I predict lawsuits over this until the end of time.

Remove All Republicans: Dr Dreidel: I think the people of Minnesota should be wondering why Norm made it such a close race.

People in Minnesota probably never heard of Franken. His legal and scholar work isn't exactly well known.

Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot (and Other Obervations)
Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right
The Truth

That's just three "scholarly" works (in that there is research, there are lots of big words, and they're all about a topic - politics - that is nuanced).

Norm Coleman seems only to have helped write the book on Republican graft and inadequacy, and an accomplice in the Bush Legacy^TM. Well done.

Franken's going to keep going until he can steal the election.

helix400: citizen905: Especially when he is winning by four votes

No, that's just what Al Franken claims. There are lots of contested ballots that haven't been added to the vote totals. Franken's team says they believe that when those are considered, they will be ahead by 4 votes. But, they supply no evidence for this.

They're saying that if you take the word of the judges rather than the campaigns, you get a 4 vote lead for Franken. Their claim is that things aren't going to change from the first judgement of the ballots. That isn't a great position, but it's stronger than saying that the unjudged challenges from each campaign's partisan counters are a good thing to go on.

jjorsett: This HufPo item is the product of either incompetence or willful ignorance. The board "suggested" that the counties count the "wrongfully rejected" ballots because it has no power to order them to. Some counties are going to do it and others aren't. The problems are twofold: 1) If the counties that decide to count them are primarily Democratic, that gives an unfair advantage to Franken. 2) There's no uniform standard for what constitutes "wrongfully rejected" so each county is making it up for itself. That's a situation that's ripe for abuse.

I predict lawsuits over this until the end of time.

This is actually Coleman's fault. Franken wanted the board to step in, mandate the count, and have clear guidelines on what would count. Coleman didn't. So the board was left powerless, only able to offer suggestions to the counties.

Bagging on the Lizard people? They made Land of The Lost watchable, almost, created a star vehical for and still employing Mark Singer, what'd you ever do for them?

Also, the comedy of that was more than worth the price of admission. Think how boring Coleman's vile douchebaggery, and Franken's pusilanimous douchebaggery would have been without it. If you think about it, I'm sure you'll come to the conclusion the Lizard People have saved this election too.

At least they'll know they are getting a joker in the Senate.

/Can they just flip a coin by now?

Something_Creative: Hey, I absolutely agree. I am, by no means, a Franken fan but we've got the most advanced democracy in the world and we can't even count votes right? Something doesn't quite seem right. I think that every single vote should be counted every single time,

Ok, great. What constitutes a 'vote'? If the voter didn't fill in the bubble but instead wrote, "I want AL!" on the ballot somewhere, is that a vote? If the law says you have to sign the absentee ballot but you don't, have you voted? That's the dilemma: arguing over what to interpret as a vote comes before actually counting them. The more lax you make your standards (assuming that you want standards at all), the more you get into arguments and lawsuits and end up with politically-appointed judges deciding who wins.

Desterion: Franken's going to keep going until he can steal the election.

Funny how both are fighting tooth and nail to get as many votes as possible in this automatic recount, yet it always seems to be Franken that's trying to "steal" the election.

Typical Fark Independent^TM attitude.

captainktainer: jjorsett: This HufPo item is the product of either incompetence or willful ignorance. The board "suggested" that the counties count the "wrongfully rejected" ballots because it has no power to order them to. Some counties are going to do it and others aren't. The problems are twofold: 1) If the counties that decide to count them are primarily Democratic, that gives an unfair advantage to Franken. 2) There's no uniform standard for what constitutes "wrongfully rejected" so each county is making it up for itself. That's a situation that's ripe for abuse.

I predict lawsuits over this until the end of time.

This is actually Coleman's fault. Franken wanted the board to step in, mandate the count, and have clear guidelines on what would count. Coleman didn't. So the board was left powerless, only able to offer suggestions to the counties.

Just because both parties wanted something wouldn't convey new powers to the canvassing board. They still wouldn't have the authority under law to issues these kinds of orders.

Skail: jimmyhaha: Gary doesn't like it when you count absentee ballots. We might here from our troops.

Only votes for Republicans should be counted.

I have Diebold on line 1 for you, Mr Peterson.

Desterion: Franken's going to keep going until he can steal the election.

So far, Coleman has challenged more proper ballots than Franken has, and Franken has been in favor of having clear guidelines on the vote. How, exactly, is Franken stealing the vote here?

Munchausen's Proxy: So, let me get this straight. Ballots that were legally rejected for legitimate reasons will be counted. AND Votes that cannot be confirmed will be counted anyway?

FTA
The state had, during the recount process, been unable to locate 133 ballots from the Minneapolis area. But rather than disregarding these votes, officials decided that they will use the results from Election Day.

Isn't that the point of a recount, to verify the original reporting. If you are going to disregard the recount and go with the original number, why have the recount at all?

You're implying that it is more fair to disregard votes lost between an original election and the recount than it is to use the original count for those votes?

Also, the problem with the rejected absentee ballots is that they were not rejected for legitimate reasons.

lelio: Many of these votes have come from traditionally Democratic locales where, for one reason or another, voters are more likely to make clerical errors when completing their ballots.

Great, so people that can't fill out forms or file them properly will be deciding who becomes a US senator.

It may be that they are simply older. Old people often have that kind of problem.

Also, a well oraganized election -- somethng America seems to have problems with -- would set the goal of reducing the number of invalid ballots.

jjorsett: Ok, great. What constitutes a 'vote'? If the voter didn't fill in the bubble but instead wrote, "I want AL!" on the ballot somewhere, is that a vote? If the law says you have to sign the absentee ballot but you don't, have you voted? That's the dilemma: arguing over what to interpret as a vote comes before actually counting them. The more lax you make your standards (assuming that you want standards at all), the more you get into arguments and lawsuits and end up with politically-appointed judges deciding who wins.

Unlike Florida - Minnesota is not just making this up as they go along. There is clear standards on what is a vote and what isn't a vote. If intent can be determined - than the vote counts.

TheGreatGazoo: At least they'll know they are getting a joker in the Senate.

/Can they just flip a coin by now?

Only if its a tie.

/yes our election law states that in a tie - they flip a coin...

Lionel Mandrake: the_vegetarian_cannibal: just came in here to remind everyone that Al Franken is a giant smug, hypocritical douchenozzle.

/Coleman too, but not by nearly as much.

I came here to say this, only reversed.

When Coleman had his ass handed to him by a miscreant European like George Galloway, you know it's time to send him home.

On paper, this is a losing battle for Franken. He needs to make up a 200-vote deficit, and errors by county election judges presumably are randomly distributed among the candidates (the Senate race had three viable candidates). Even if 1,600 new ballots are put into play, it would strain the law of averages to the breaking point to imagine that Franken's total would exceed Coleman's by more than 200. But with varying levels of partisan commitment among county officials, the identification of "improperly" excluded ballots will not necessarily be random. (new window)

It's not supposed to end.

At least not until the new year when they can begin coverage of the 2010 elections.

Dr Dreidel: Remove All Republicans: Dr Dreidel: I think the people of Minnesota should be wondering why Norm made it such a close race.

People in Minnesota probably never heard of Franken. His legal and scholar work isn't exactly well known.

Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot (and Other Obervations)
Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right
The Truth

That's just three "scholarly" works (in that there is research, there are lots of big words, and they're all about a topic - politics - that is nuanced).

Norm Coleman seems only to have helped write the book on Republican graft and inadequacy, and an accomplice in the Bush LegacyTM. Well done.

Ahh, the scholarly work chock full of errors. (new window)

Both sides are douches. They need to institute uniform recount procedures, but it seems as if the board decided against that in allowing the districts to use original tallies if it can't find the correct votes.

Lionel Mandrake: Funny how both are fighting tooth and nail to get as many votes as possible in this automatic recount, yet it always seems to be Franken that's trying to "steal" the election.

Typical Fark IndependentTM attitude.

The rule of thumb is: Whoever is losing and keeps calling for recounts is the one trying to steal the election. (See Al Gore.) Has any published count ever shown Franken winning?

depmode98 Quote 2008-12-14 02:55:42 PM
I Said:

I really don't care abut this race but FFS why would these votes NOT be counted?

because most of those votes go towards the Democrat and that just isn't fair. Republicans consider it cheating when you don't stop counting votes at just the precise time that the vote tally implies the Republican is winning.


You're s total dumbass....and that's really the only response you comments deserve.

FTA -

Many of these votes have come from traditionally Democratic locales where, for one reason or another, voters are more likely to make clerical errors when completing their ballots.

I lol'd

Hey I just found a bunch of ballots in my car! I'm pretty sure they are all for Coleman!

(If you are too stupid to correctly fill out a ballot, not having it counts seems pretty appropriate)

GodTurtleOm: You're implying that it is more fair to disregard votes lost between an original election and the recount than it is to use the original count for those votes?
The purpose of the recount is to confirm the accuracy of the initial report. In this case the recount did not, but the initial tally will be used. Do you know as a certainty that ballots were lost? It is also possible the original count was wrong, but will be used anyway.

Also, the problem with the rejected absentee ballots is that they were not rejected for legitimate reasons.
Source?

Absentee ballots were rejected for legal reasons
1. The ballot was rejected because the voter's name and address on the return envelope are not the same as the information provided on the absentee ballot application.

2. The voter's signature on the return envelope is not the genuine signature of the individual who made the application for the ballot and the signature is required under applicable Minnesota law, or the certificate has not been completed as prescribed in the directions for casting an absentee ballot.

3. The voter was not registered and eligible to vote in the precinct or has not included a properly completed voter registration application. Elections personnel shall use available voter rosters to determine whether the voter was registered.

4. The voter had already voted at the election, either in person or by absentee ballot. Elections personnel shall use available voter rosters to determine whether the voter had already voted.

Which of these are not legitimate? Or are you just a liberal shill? It is OK if you are, I'm just asking.

thenateman: Lionel Mandrake: Funny how both are fighting tooth and nail to get as many votes as possible in this automatic recount, yet it always seems to be Franken that's trying to "steal" the election.

Typical Fark IndependentTM attitude.

The rule of thumb is: Whoever is losing and keeps calling for recounts is the one trying to steal the election. (See Al Gore.) Has any published count ever shown Franken winning?

The recount is automatic. No one "called for it."

I can't recall (and don't care enough to look) which numbers are official and which come from the two camps, but the general trend, I believe, that the advantage is Coleman's (very narrowly) and the gap has been closing (according to TFA, the Franken camp claims to lead by 4).

If either candidate said "fark it, I'm losing (by a handful), I'll just call it quits," they would be a farking idiot. It would be stupid for Al to do it, and it would be stupid for Norm to do it. They are both fighting tooth and nail, to say that one is trying to "steal" the election and the other is a somehow a victim is fkn retarded.

the_vegetarian_cannibal: just came in here to remind everyone that Al Franken is a giant smug, hypocritical douchenozzle.

/Coleman too, but not by nearly as much.

At least Franken isn't being investigated by the FBI for corruption.

Isn't it about time to call the supreme court and ask them to install a republican?

Scumbag Scotus.