Destroying the UAW will do more for the millions of Americans who buy cars every year than any amount of money wasted on Detroit and its tributaries.

Headline should read "UAW Discovers Paying Off Only One Political Not Enough"

As a practical matter only, the strategy of being an arm of the Democratic Party and dumping on Repubs constantly has proven to be a bit of a failure in this case. The Unions should have been lobbying for their workers and handing out cash to all incumbents rather than tanking for one party.

Bad political strategy...union leaders fail their members. So sad.

Shocking.

Unions are evil because I want to make $1 a day while the bosses make hundreds of millions of dollars, because that's the American way. Yay Capitalism!

Jim Hightower's column addressed this recently. The Republicans are willing to give hundreds of billions to AIG and Citigroup, non-unionized behemoths whose execs also flew in on private planes, but not tens of billions to the Auto makers unless they can, in the process, bust some union balls.


arkansas

The Unions should have been lobbying for their workers and handing out cash to all incumbents rather than tanking for one party.

Yeah, that would work well, since nearly every Republican is a sworn enemy of the unions. They would take the money and do nothing, just as they do for the social conservatives. Which, by the way, they do for the same reasons: when you are in the pocket of business, whose whole philosophy is Darwinistic (except when it comes to accepting government bail-outs), you cannot be coddling a bunch of losers whose only agenda is to thin the black bottom line.

you know who else liked to bust unions?

when you really don't want someone to know something, you should never write it down.

PoopStain: #2, if you can manage to read it and not react with blind partisanship, actually makes a lot of sense.

not if you take it in context of what happened, and what the republicans said happened.

the UAW was willing to compromise, but the republicans were seemingly only interested in making the UAW look like they weren't, so they demanded concessions that were way out of line and once they got resistance, they took their ball and went home. the next day they come out talking about how the UAW killed the deal and was completely impossible to work with.

they weren't interested in taking a long, measured look at the legislation, they were interested in hurting the union.

a long, measured look at the situation will tell you that UAW workers don't make that much more than non-union auto workers, and most of the higher cost of goods sold comes from health care costs and things like that.

a sensible view will also remind you that even if you hate the terms the UAW gets, that's the terms agreed to in their contract with the companies. if the companies don't like the terms, they should not sign the contract.

and a sensible view will remind you that the UAW didn't design the gas-guzzling SUVs that the factories are all tooled to make, a decision that offered temporary profitability at the cost of sustainable market viability.

no, they weren't interested in coming to a sensible solution, considering all the factors carefully. they were interested in demonizing or otherwise hurting organized labor.

The sooner you can have press releases and documents like this in the hands of members and the press, the better

uhhh, you're playing into their hands.


bwahahahhahaa

GAT_00: Unions are evil because I want to make $1 a day while the bosses make hundreds of millions of dollars, because that's the American way. Yay Capitalism!

and you're f*cking retarded.

burndtdan: PoopStain: #2, if you can manage to read it and not react with blind partisanship, actually makes a lot of sense.

not if you take it in context of what happened, and what the republicans said happened.

the UAW was willing to compromise, but the republicans were seemingly only interested in making the UAW look like they weren't, so they demanded concessions that were way out of line and once they got resistance, they took their ball and went home. the next day they come out talking about how the UAW killed the deal and was completely impossible to work with.

they weren't interested in taking a long, measured look at the legislation, they were interested in hurting the union.

a long, measured look at the situation will tell you that UAW workers don't make that much more than non-union auto workers, and most of the higher cost of goods sold comes from health care costs and things like that.

a sensible view will also remind you that even if you hate the terms the UAW gets, that's the terms agreed to in their contract with the companies. if the companies don't like the terms, they should not sign the contract.

and a sensible view will remind you that the UAW didn't design the gas-guzzling SUVs that the factories are all tooled to make, a decision that offered temporary profitability at the cost of sustainable market viability.

no, they weren't interested in coming to a sensible solution, considering all the factors carefully. they were interested in demonizing or otherwise hurting organized labor.

You're making an intelligent, reasoned argument.

Stop it.

Bob Dolemite: GAT_00: Unions are evil because I want to make $1 a day while the bosses make hundreds of millions of dollars, because that's the American way. Yay Capitalism!

and you'reAmerican people are f*cking retarded.

FTFY

There does not have to be a one-way resolution of either having unions or not having unions. They serve very good purposes, one of which GAT pointed out. If someone can get the unions to work more with the companies than the better off everyone will be. Unions didn't kill these auto companies, poor management of basically everything did.

Repeat. From five greens down. From the SAME NEWS SOURCE.

From another article on the failed bailout:

"I don't know what Sen. Vitter has against GM or the United Auto Workers or the entire domestic auto industry; whatever it is, whatever he thinks we've done, it's time for him to forgive us, just like Sen. Vitter has asked the citizens of Louisiana to forgive him, " said Johnson, president of Local 2166. Otherwise, Johnson said of Vitter, it would appear, "He'd rather pay a prostitute than pay auto workers."

Ouch.

Significance of this memo:

The Republicans were lying when they said the UAW deep-sixed the bailout. It was the Republicans, and the Republicans only, who deep-sixed it. They never intended to compromise on it to begin with. They just wanted to put on a show.

Significance: Republicans were lying.

Funny that.

arkansas: Headline should read "UAW Discovers Paying Off Only One Political Not Enough"

As a practical matter only, the strategy of being an arm of the Democratic Party and dumping on Repubs constantly has proven to be a bit of a failure in this case. The Unions should have been lobbying for their workers and handing out cash to all incumbents rather than tanking for one party.

Bad political strategy...union leaders fail their members. So sad.

LOL

Or just wait a month and the unions will be greatly rewarded.

Republicans lost. Democrats are in complete control. Unions chose wisely.

This is the right throwing a fit and showing hopw special they are for the last time for a long time.

Gosling: Repeat. From five greens down. From the SAME NEWS SOURCE.

I blame the UAW.

I'm glad it died at this point. If Republicans could catch terrorists like they burn money, we'd have caught Osama Bin Laden ten times over.

There's no benefit handling something so important before the new president and congress come in. Why let the GOP shiat in America's mouth once again? I think GM's got the right idea currently: hibernate through the winter, then deal with this when there's someone competent in power.

Best to fix this with a strongly democratic congress and Obama in office. Stuff will get passed more easily, and stuff will get passed with less bullshart and cronyism added in. Also, chances are we'll end up paying these companies to DO something, such as building buses, trains, subways, etc.

/Money for nothing is capitalism
//Money for tangible goods and services is communism?

burndtdan: no, they weren't interested in coming to a sensible solution, considering all the factors carefully. they were interested in demonizing or otherwise hurting organized labor.

burndtdan: when you really don't want someone to know something, you should never write it down.

Am I the only one who bothered to read the whole memo? The last paragraph states that they want this information in press releases and covered by the media.

Not this shiat again...

AeroBoar: Am I the only one who bothered to read the whole memo? The last paragraph states that they want this information in press releases and covered by the media.

"The sooner you can have press releases and documents like this in the hands of members and the press, the better."

Reading comprehension FTW

Klingon Penis: I blame the UAW.

I blame gay marriage.

Republicans did something right. I don't even care why.

Gosling: Repeat. From five greens down. From the SAME NEWS SOURCE.

This. WTF?

Fatslave: Republicans did something right. I don't even care why.

Well they are rather right-leaning, so no surprise there...

man do people get pissy and jealous when someone else fights for a fair wage. All you whiners are just pissed you don't have a union for you to fight for what you deserve.

Thanks for doing the bidding of rich people suckas!

The republican party is on the verge of extinction and they still insist on putting their finger in the eyes of middle class americans.

bravian: Klingon Penis: I blame the UAW.

I blame gay marriage.

I blame gay-married UAW members.

CaptMacMillian: Unions didn't kill these auto companies, poor management of basically everything did.

they didn't help. also, the inept management in addition to the union BS helped get them to this point.

you'll hear the UAW guy say "hey, we earn just as much, if not slightly less than toyota people", and I'll say "yeah, but toyota people don't earn 30/hr in benefits like you do"

that's what has killed the companies. the amount of money they are required to pay because unions got greedy and inept management was willing to accept is inexcusable.

Nice try Dem-o-rats

But with Chairman Obama Law-er-ing up.. you have a

Change you can believe in

Moment

Gosling: Repeat. From five greens down. From the SAME NEWS SOURCE.

Well obviously the naysayers still can't handle it, so they're cramming it down our throats ONE MORE TIME...

burndtdan: and a sensible view will remind you that the UAW didn't design the gas-guzzling SUVs that the factories are all tooled to make, a decision that offered temporary profitability at the cost of sustainable market viability.

This. I am anti-union as they come but GMs problem is not the UAW. Its decades of bad management decisions.

winterwhile: Nice try Dem-o-rats
But with Chairman Obama Law-er-ing up.. you have a
Change you can believe in
Moment

Is Free Republic down or something?

bravian: burndtdan: and a sensible view will remind you that the UAW didn't design the gas-guzzling SUVs that the factories are all tooled to make, a decision that offered temporary profitability at the cost of sustainable market viability.

This. I am anti-union as they come but GMs problem is not the UAW. Its decades of bad management decisions.

Yeah, I mean people organizing democratically to fight for a better standard of living is so unAmerican.

// history, do you read it?
// apparently not.

burndtdan: PoopStain: #2, if you can manage to read it and not react with blind partisanship, actually makes a lot of sense.

not if you take it in context of what happened, and what the republicans said happened.

the UAW was willing to compromise, but the republicans were seemingly only interested in making the UAW look like they weren't, so they demanded concessions that were way out of line and once they got resistance, they took their ball and went home. the next day they come out talking about how the UAW killed the deal and was completely impossible to work with.

they weren't interested in taking a long, measured look at the legislation, they were interested in hurting the union.

a long, measured look at the situation will tell you that UAW workers don't make that much more than non-union auto workers, and most of the higher cost of goods sold comes from health care costs and things like that.

a sensible view will also remind you that even if you hate the terms the UAW gets, that's the terms agreed to in their contract with the companies. if the companies don't like the terms, they should not sign the contract.

and a sensible view will remind you that the UAW didn't design the gas-guzzling SUVs that the factories are all tooled to make, a decision that offered temporary profitability at the cost of sustainable market viability.

no, they weren't interested in coming to a sensible solution, considering all the factors carefully. they were interested in demonizing or otherwise hurting organized labor.

The companies and the UAW hold NO cards. They do not have the option of coming to a solution that suits them. They are BEGGARS by virtue of their own stupid decisions. They had to cave to WHATEVER the Dems AND the GOP wanted to get out of them. They didn't want to do that? Then screw them.

And that "3 million jobs lost" figure that keeps getting bandied about? It's bullshiat - someone show me the specific economic analysis that gives this number, and I will shred it to bits.

Bob Dolemite: that's what has killed the companies. the amount of money they are required to pay because unions got greedy and inept management was willing to accept is inexcusable.

Did the UAW greenlight the Grand Prix, Magnum, Pacifica, H2, Mark LT, Escalade EXT, Mariner Hybrid, Crossfire, or XLR?

I'm now convinced that Union hate on Fark is the same as Cop hate or Republican hate. It doesn't matter if they are the epitome of what they are supposed to be, at least one butthurt farker will come in to the threat talking about how they're lazy and useless. Case in point. Memo leaked that shows the UAW was willing to take concessions, but that it was the Republicans that killed the deal and then blamed it on the Unions in order to demonize them. And people are still saying that the UAW needs to die and Michigan's economy needs to get worse.

bronyaur1: And that "3 million jobs lost" figure that keeps getting bandied about? It's bullshiat - someone show me the specific economic analysis that gives this number, and I will shred it to bits..

Nobody on either side of the argument is denying the 3 million ( or more) jobs number. Because they can't. I'm just gonna have to assume you are an idiot.

LOL "Shred it apart". Tehe. You probably can't do basic math dude. STFU

mr lawson: Senate Democrats Had Enough Republican Votes to Pass the Bailout
Nancy Pelosi says that Senate Republicans were "irresponsible" for opposing the auto bailout, which failed on a cloture vote last night 52 to 35.


Senate Republicans' refusal to support the bipartisan legislation passed by the House and negotiated in good faith with the White House, the Senate and the automakers is irresponsible, especially at a time of economic hardship. The consequences of the Senate Republicans' failure to act could be devastating to our economy, detrimental to workers, and destructive to the American automobile industry


The problem with Pelosi's statement is that 10 Republican Senators voted with the Democrats last night, which means the Democrats could have reached 60 votes if the entire Democratic caucus voted for the bill.

But eight Democrats bailed on the bailout (Reid, it should be noted, voted against it for procedural reasons, in order to bring it up for a vote again).

Four Democrats voted 'nay': Baucus, Tester, Lincoln, and Reid.

Four Democrats did not vote: Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, and Wyden.

You're right, 4 Democratic "Nay" votes trumps 40 something Republican "Nay" votes. It's all the Democrats fault.

pacified: man do people get pissy and jealous when someone else fights for a fair wage. All you whiners are just pissed you don't have a union for you to fight for what you deserve.

Thanks for doing the bidding of rich people suckas!

Explain to me how earning $40/hr for unskilled labor is a fair wage. How do you define a "fair" wage? I define it as the wage equivalent to the market value of the work produced. The market has spoken about as loudly as it can possibly speak - the aggregate value of the cars produced by GM, Ford, and Chrysler is below the aggregate cost to produce them.

Rethorn: I'm now convinced that Union hate on Fark is the same as Cop hate or Republican hate. It doesn't matter if they are the epitome of what they are supposed to be, at least one butthurt farker will come in to the threat talking about how they're lazy and useless. Case in point. Memo leaked that shows the UAW was willing to take concessions, but that it was the Republicans that killed the deal and then blamed it on the Unions in order to demonize them. And people are still saying that the UAW needs to die and Michigan's economy needs to get worse.

Economic fundamentalism.

A lot of Libertarian mouth-breathers who've read The Fountainhead and spent a lot of time on the Ron Paul forums who preaching an economic ideology that has no practicality in real life and no representation in Congress, ever.

Rethorn: I'm now convinced that Union hate on Fark is the same as Cop hate or Republican hate. It doesn't matter if they are the epitome of what they are supposed to be, at least one butthurt farker will come in to the threat talking about how they're lazy and useless. Case in point. Memo leaked that shows the UAW was willing to take concessions, but that it was the Republicans that killed the deal and then blamed it on the Unions in order to demonize them. And people are still saying that the UAW needs to die and Michigan's economy needs to get worse.

Its people without good jobs who hate people who dare to make decent money. I'm nowhere near a union, but I am happy in my own life and like it when all people are paid well.

Look, GM made money hand over fist for decades with the union. Until about 2 years ago, the stock was $100 a share and they paid out dividends like mad instead of investing. Can we demand that money back? Or do we blame it on the workers.

The facts are all there, but these are typical Farkers who think they work harder than most, yada yada.

Feel bad for them.

Rethorn: I'm now convinced that Union hate on Fark is the same as Cop hate or Republican hate. It doesn't matter if they are the epitome of what they are supposed to be, at least one butthurt farker will come in to the threat talking about how they're lazy and useless. Case in point. Memo leaked that shows the UAW was willing to take concessions, but that it was the Republicans that killed the deal and then blamed it on the Unions in order to demonize them. And people are still saying that the UAW needs to die and Michigan's economy needs to get worse.

Bob Corker said they spiked it because of one year. The union would make concessions and in '10 and he wanted it next year. Then he had the gall to say, essentially, they have too good a benefits package. This coming from a guy with possibly the best benefits package in the land.

Rethorn: but that it was the Republicans that killed the deal

Senate Democrats Had Enough Republican Votes to Pass the Bailout
Nancy Pelosi says that Senate Republicans were "irresponsible" for opposing the auto bailout, which failed on a cloture vote last night 52 to 35.



The problem with Pelosi's statement is that 10 Republican Senators voted with the Democrats last night, which means the Democrats could have reached 60 votes if the entire Democratic caucus voted for the bill.
But eight Democrats bailed on the bailout (Reid, it should be noted, voted against it for procedural reasons, in order to bring it up for a vote again).

Four Democrats voted 'nay': Baucus, Tester, Lincoln, and Reid.

Four Democrats did not vote: Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, and Wyden.

The Dem's had it....THEY blew it!

bronyaur1: pacified: man do people get pissy and jealous when someone else fights for a fair wage. All you whiners are just pissed you don't have a union for you to fight for what you deserve.

Thanks for doing the bidding of rich people suckas!

Explain to me how earning $40/hr for unskilled labor is a fair wage.

What is unskilled?

Have you ever even been in a plant in your life?

Peter von Nostrand: You're right, 4 Democratic "Nay" votes trumps 40 something Republican "Nay" votes. It's all the Democrats fault.

They are the ones in charge...so yes!

PascalsGhost: bronyaur1: And that "3 million jobs lost" figure that keeps getting bandied about? It's bullshiat - someone show me the specific economic analysis that gives this number, and I will shred it to bits..

Nobody on either side of the argument is denying the 3 million ( or more) jobs number. Because they can't. I'm just gonna have to assume you are an idiot.

LOL "Shred it apart". Tehe. You probably can't do basic math dude. STFU

Not only can I do basic math, but I have an undergrad degree in math. And physics. Oh, and a masters and PhD in economics, as well. Do you? If not, it seems that my opinion on these sorts of things has value, while yours is pretty much a fart in a hurricane.

Unions drag companies into the ground.

It is up to the market to decide the value of a worker's wage. Any outside interferences cause too much risk.