I have no idea why so many Basque people are so stupid. These terrorists enjoy widespread support in The Basque Country. They want independence from Spain. (They also want a small part of southern France) They don't seem to want to be connected to the rest of europe. What the fark would they do without high speed rail connectivity and independence? They would just keep killing people for other reasons ( to give them money to trade with them, etc)

They are largely a people who aren't very smart, they support terrorism, and their "demands" are completely incoherent.

+.5

A little forced.

it seeks to display its eco credentials by sabotaging a new high-speed rail link

Strange. In America high speed rail is considered good and eco-friendly -- by faith, if not necessarily facts.

z_gringo: I have no idea why so many Basque people are so stupid. These terrorists enjoy widespread support in The Basque Country. They want independence from Spain. (They also want a small part of southern France) They don't seem to want to be connected to the rest of europe. What the fark would they do without high speed rail connectivity and independence? They would just keep killing people for other reasons ( to give them money to trade with them, etc)

They are largely a people who aren't very smart, they support terrorism, and their "demands" are completely incoherent.

Perhaps they simply want to retain their own culture? They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

/just sayin'

Oh, and no, I'm not condoning their actions.

They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

Soon they'll be ruled from Brussels instead of Paris and Madrid. They won't be independent either way.

ZAZ: They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

Soon they'll be ruled from Brussels instead of Paris and Madrid. They won't be independent either way.

Well, at least they'll still have their national hat.

Is never what? Or is that some joke I don't get.

I hear she's got this thing about choo-choos.

ZAZ: Strange. In America high speed rail$thing is considered good and eco-friendly -- by faith, if not necessarily facts.

FIFY.

ne2d: Is never what? Or is that some joke I don't get.

"ETA" is Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque for "Basque Homeland and Freedom")

/Trevanian FWT!

vicejay: /Trevanian FWT!

Ooops, FTW, of course...

Maybe it's because no one can understand them. I had a professor once who was Basque (and pretty hot), and even she said that no one really knows where Euskara comes from or why it's so weird.

These trains are the cream-pie to me.

Trains are way cool.

Mobile drinking platforms on rails, with amazing views.

I with the USA had more of them.

That's a fine example of a half-baked headline which went looking for a story.

These guys must be friends with the freeholders from Middlesex County, NJ

ZAZ: They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

Soon they'll be ruled from Brussels instead of Paris and Madrid. They won't be independent either way.

Whom can you point to and state, "They're fully independent from all of their neighbors."? I'd wager it would be some tribe in the deep Amazon, but once there's contact with the outside, there will be change to their past. They call it "the past" for a reason: to remind us that things are constantly changing and to move along with it.

Let them starve in their own "culture".

Coronach: Perhaps they simply want to retain their own culture? They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

No-one is trying to make them assimilate, or destroy their culture.

FTA: He has refused to sell his land, where sheep and tough little ponies with bells round their necks graze

wat?

I have been to Vermont and the roads and railway don't destroy it. Can they just blow through Mountains instead of going through someones land? Still beautiful and if they stop the killing hey who knows the area might improve.

/slightly naive viewpoint as I don't know much else apart from the article I skimmed over.....backwards (I read backwards sometimes, O.K?)

Coronach: Oh, and no, I'm not condoning their actions.

Why not? You're American so your tax dollars pay for all kinds of violent shyte around the world, and you still elect the people who do it, and your countrymen work for the companies who profit from it. You are responsible for a lot of crap, so why stop at the Basque? That kind of hypocrisy tends to make things worse, because then you make it sound like the Basque are not good enough to fight like the many little groups of people your tax dollars armed over the years. Sad but true. Your moral position is adding to their perception of oppression, and not pragmatically resiting any injustices.

ne2d: Is never what? Or is that some joke I don't get.

It's a pun. ETA is the name of the Basque terrorist group. ETA is also an abbreviation for Estimated Time of Arrival.

hyperspacemonkey, the position of far-left whackjob troll is already taken, from this point forth you shall be Remove All Republicans' understudy.

too hungover to RTFA

give me doughnuts

No-one is trying to make them assimilate, or destroy their culture.

Euskara can't be used in schools and isn't recognised in courts in France. That seems a tad hostile.

give me doughnuts: Coronach: Perhaps they simply want to retain their own culture? They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.

No-one is trying to make them assimilate, or destroy their culture.

IS is the important tense here. Ask Franco about that sentence in the past tense.

ETA are asshats, but like the IRA, the militants are vanishing as life improves.

Can someone explain this headline please?

Coronach: Perhaps they simply want to retain their own culture? They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.



Trying to 'save' a culture pretty much defines stupidity in the modern world.

Change happens. Deal with it.

/real progressive

NYZooMan

Trying to 'save' a culture pretty much defines stupidity in the modern world.

Change happens. Deal with it.

I'm relatively sure some Roman told these people the same thing a couple thousand years ago. They seem to remain unconvinced.

Kurohone: ETA are asshats, but like the IRA, the militants are vanishing as life improves.

And that's exactly why they are doing this, improving infrastructure means greater quality of life for the people in the area; and all the angry young men groups like this depend utterly upon will either find better things to do (such as biatch about things on fark) or find new outlets for their frustration through the purchase of emo or german darkwave music.

Not impressed with ETAs shenanigans (new window)

They hate those cars!

NYZooMan: Coronach: Perhaps they simply want to retain their own culture? They've been a separate people from those around them since before there was a Spain or France.



Trying to 'save' a culture pretty much defines stupidity in the modern world.

Change happens. Deal with it.

/real progressive

You know who else said 'change happens' while trying to wipe out entire cultures?

/seems appropriate here and not a Godwin

I see what you did there!

*waits for Mr. Grocer to show up and disparage the Basque whacker from the Pyrenees*

Spanish songs in Andalucia
The shooting sites in the days of '39
Oh, please, leave the vendanna open
Fredrico Lorca is dead and gone
Bullet holes in the cemetery walls
The black cars of the Guardia Civil
Spanish bombs on the Costa Rica
I'm flying in a DC 10 tonight

CHORUS
Spanish bombs, yo tequierro y finito
Yote querda, oh mi corazon
Spanish bombs, yo te quierro y finito
Yo te querda, oh mi corazon

Spanish weeks in my disco casino
The freedom fighters died upon the hill
They sang the red flag
They wore the black one
But after they died it was Mockingbird Hill
Back home the buses went up in flashes
The Irish tomb was drenched in blood
Spanish bombs shatter the hotels
My senorita's rose was nipped in the bud

CHORUS

The hillsides ring with "Free the people"
Or can I hear the echo from the days of '39?
With trenches full of poets
The ragged army, fixin' bayonets to fight the other line
Spanish bombs rock the province
I'm hearing music from another time
Spanish bombs on the Costa Brava
I'm flying in on a DC 10 tonight
Spanish songs in Andalucia, Mandolina, oh mi corazon
Spanish songs in Granada, oh mi corazon

An Iraqi journalist just threw both of his shows at Bush on TV, let's get that farking thread started already.

Fark the Basques, who'd want them anyway?

Facetious_Speciest: give me doughnuts

No-one is trying to make them assimilate, or destroy their culture.

Euskara can't be used in schools and isn't recognised in courts in France. That seems a tad hostile.

The schools and courts in Spain use Spanish. The courts and schools in France use French. No-one is coming into the homes and businesses of the Basques and making them speak Spanish or French.
The two countries just aren't willing to let a bunch of people carve out their own country out of their territory.
Yes, the Basques were there first, and yes their weird-ass language is unrelated to any of the Indo-European languages. So what?

Have we found an exception to Rule 34? Does Basque porn exist?

hyperspacemonkey: Coronach: Oh, and no, I'm not condoning their actions.

Why not? You're American so your tax dollars pay for all kinds of violent shyte around the world, and you still elect the people who do it, and your countrymen work for the companies who profit from it. You are responsible for a lot of crap, so why stop at the Basque? That kind of hypocrisy tends to make things worse, because then you make it sound like the Basque are not good enough to fight like the many little groups of people your tax dollars armed over the years. Sad but true. Your moral position is adding to their perception of oppression, and not pragmatically resiting any injustices.

-3/10

ZAZ: it seeks to display its eco credentials by sabotaging a new high-speed rail link

Strange. In America high speed rail is considered good and eco-friendly -- by faith, if not necessarily facts.

not just in america, in germany, netherlands, ireland and other european places people have insisted that high speed rail is the only eco friendly mass transit solution.

give me doughnuts

The schools and courts in Spain use Spanish. The courts and schools in France use French.

Actually, Spanish and Euskara are co-official in the Basque parts of Spain. It can be used in education (schools) and government (courts, healthcare). The government constables are ertzaintza, not policía. There's a world of difference between the Spanish and French treatments of these people.

No-one is coming into the homes and businesses of the Basques and making them speak Spanish or French.

Not right now. In living memory, the Spanish government outlawed the use of their language pretty much everywhere. You couldn't conduct business in it, you couldn't publish in it, you couldn't even advertise in it. I can see how they'd be a bit wary.

Yes, the Basques were there first, and yes their weird-ass language is unrelated to any of the Indo-European languages. So what?

You brought it up, you tell me.

Deacon Blue: Have we found an exception to Rule 34? Does Basque porn exist?


It seems to...

As someone who is Basque and French and born in Los Angeles it's been pretty hard to understand my linage. The whole Basque thing is pretty interesting. As others have pointed out, they were the first, and their DNA is the purest Euro DNA in Europe. No doubt due to their local, and self imposed isolation. They also seem to be very loyal, creative/whimsical, & idealists. All traits that I have. And I found Edd17's comments about goth/industrial funny since that explains a lot also. The fact that I can be an absolute shiathead I attribute to my French blood however.

"A Basque horse was standing on the train tracks
a train was coming down the tracks
the train had to back up."

Basque joke.

"Die an excellent death"

Basque saying.

give me doughnuts: No-one is trying to make them assimilate, or destroy their culture.

Yeah, right. You obviously have no idea how nationalistic Spain is. Madrid would outlaw everything Basque if the had a chance.

give me doughnuts: Yes, the Basques were there first, and yes their weird-ass language is unrelated to any of the Indo-European languages. So what?

You kill a language, you kill the culture. Franco knew that.

Like many Basques who disagree with ETA and condemn their actions, I think that they are a bunch of murderous pansies who need to be wiped out. I live in Catalonia, which is facing similar oppression from the Spanish government. However, no one here is blowing shiat up and murdering people. They go about their lives peacefully and construcitvely trying to better their futures.

And if any of you believe ETA give a flying f*ck about the environment, and believe this isn't about money, you're quite naïve. They're effective extortionists.

give me doughnuts
Yes, the Basques were there first, and yes their weird-ass language is unrelated to any of the Indo-European languages. So what?

Facetious_Speciest
You brought it up, you tell me.

I'll take this one up, as it has always intrigued me.

I think it is fascinating that linguistics shows that this is one of the last (maybe even the only?) indigenous groups in Europe that is not descended from the Proto-Indo-European group of languages. That means that you are talking about a cultural group that has retained some level of coherency for over 6,000 years, as has not been subsumed by its exponentially larger and more influential neighbors. Even if there isn't a genetic distinction, just the longevity of the cultural independence deserves a certain amount of respect.

Just imagine what they have held off over the millenia? Horsemen sweeping westwards from the steppes, germanic tribes bursting out of northern europe as the lowlands flooded and the population grew, the Roman legions, the Franks, Islam sweeping through the Iberian peninsula, and medieval kingdoms of Spain... All that time they stuck their spears in the ground facing outwards and pretty much said "Fark off. We might be small, but we like what we have going on here, and we're not going to let you assimilate our thing here."

That said, I don't think they should be able to demand chunks of Spain and France to carve out their own little country.

But I still marvel at the tenacity of the culture.

Surly_Duff: But I still marvel at the tenacity of the culture.

Well put. I'm no linguist, but I do believe that language is quite important for a people. No doubt it's a huge part of Basque life and it's worth holding on to.

I_Hate_Iowa: Can someone explain this headline please?

The ETA is a political group / freedom fighters / terrorists, representing a distinct ethnic group known as the Basque(s), who live in the region where Spain and France border one another.

"ETA" stands for Euskadi Ta Askatasuna (Basque for "Basque Homeland and Freedom").

"ETA" in the headline is "estimated time of arrival...

See? It's a play on words, sorta.

/dissecting a joke is like dissecting a frog..you learn a lot, but the frog dies.

Surly_Duff

I think it is fascinating that linguistics shows that this is one of the last (maybe even the only?) indigenous groups in Europe that is not descended from the Proto-Indo-European group of languages. That means that you are talking about a cultural group that has retained some level of coherency for over 6,000 years, as has not been subsumed by its exponentially larger and more influential neighbors.

Pretty much. The rest of western Europe is entirely Indo-European, linguistically. There are no other pre-IE survivors.

Even if there isn't a genetic distinction, just the longevity of the cultural independence deserves a certain amount of respect.

There is a genetic distinction, but it's not quite as distinct as everyone once thought. Genetically, Basques and people from Europe's "Celtic Fringe" appear to be primarily descended from the Iberian refugia from the last Ice Age. Germanic and Romance Europe are largely Indo-European in contrast. The popular notion used to be that insular Celts were descended from the same physical invasions typified by Germanic peoples, as much Celtic mythic history suggests, but the genetic data seems to indicate that they're basically just the cousins of Basques who adopted Celtic languages.