response from congress: *crickets*

Time to stock up on booze and bullets. This economy is going down the shiatter.

Me reading headline:
hundreds, thousands, millions, Billions?, trillions!?! wtf! holy shiat I'd better RTFA.

Holy crap subby didn't fark up, i don't think i've ever wanted subby to have messed up as badly as this morning. . I'm with queezyweezel

I'll bet you that at least some of that money ended up as kickbacks to members of Congress and various beltway insiders.

Weaver95: I'll bet you that at least some of that money ended up as kickbacks to members of Congress and various beltway insiders.

I'd be willing to bet that Billions of it went that way.

Wait till the rest of these ponzi schemes hit the news. The one in NYC is just the tip of the iceberg I fear.

Weaver95: I'll bet you that at least some of that money ended up as kickbacks to members of Congress and various beltway insiders nearly every top level member of the executive and legislative branch .

ftfu

queezyweezel: Weaver95: I'll bet you that at least some of that money ended up as kickbacks to members of Congress and various beltway insiders.

I'd be willing to bet that Billions of it went that way.

Would you further bet there are a lot of 'W's involved with those dealings?

Whats amazing to me is that back in 2002, a coworker of mine insisted that Bush was planning on bankrupting the fed, and making his friends rich. I laughed back then, and now I realize she was right.

These are not the trillions that you're looking for.

damn that's a lot of zeros....

/a billion here and a billion there and pretty soon you're talking about real money.

It's pretty normal for central banks to keep 'temporary' support confidential, to prevent customer loss of confidence in the bank in question.

OTOH, you'd be hard-pressed to argue that $2 trillion lent in the current environment is normal 'temporary' support.

queezyweezel: Whats amazing to me is that back in 2002, a coworker of mine insisted that Bush was planning on bankrupting the fed, and making his friends rich. I laughed back then, and now I realize she was right.

That's the worst part. I've been a critic since 2002ish, but even I dismissed the wackadoos who said that the Bush administration was truly evil, that they would be the end of the republic, that Iraq was a fart in the wind compared with the disasters they'd visit upon us.

It gets really, really hard to dismiss their lunacy when the reality already resembles cartoon villainy.

queezyweezel: Weaver95: I'll bet you that at least some of that money ended up as kickbacks to members of Congress and various beltway insiders.

I'd be willing to bet that Billions of it went that way.

Political moneylaundering. They take taxes from everyone, bestow the money on some group or another, and said group turns around and gives a portion of it back to members of Congress and People With Influence.

queezyweezel: Whats amazing to me is that back in 2002, a coworker of mine insisted that Bush was planning on bankrupting the fed, and making his friends rich. I laughed back then, and now I realize she was right.

You just realized this NOW?

I hate to be an ass, but wake up, man.

That's got to be one of my biggest fears, that the Bush administration is competent enough to keep utter carnage propped up juuuust long enough for W to board a plane to Paraguay. That we're already well and proper farked, and have been for some time, but that there's just enough of it up in the air that we won't find out how deep the dicking will be until early-mid '09.

This is why we can't have nice things.

When the government can spend 2 Trillion dollars in taxpayers money, and not have to explain who received that money and why simply because it would cause the recipients to lose money (read - expose their horrible management), it pretty much wraps up our 232 year experiment in democracy. It was nice while it lasted.

At least before when they withheld info from the American people, it was ostensibly to protect lives. Now they openly declare that it's just to protect the profits of the rich.

We had the PATRIOT ACT, then warrantless wiretaps, now loss of FOIA. Our lives must be completely open to the government, but their operations are completely closed to us.

Seriously, WTF?

rajin5b3: Seriously, WTF?

United States of America (July 4, 1776 - October 26, 2001)

The slow invasive creep of the interstate commerce act, the commoditization of current events, our ignorant insistence to emplace in power those who simultaneously insist that government is the cause of all our ills and the answer to all our problems. The dissolution of community. Toleration of monopoly, both in industry and in governance. Apathy. Enough cuts, and even a giant will bleed to death.

Occam's Chainsaw: That's got to be one of my biggest fears, that the Bush administration is competent enough to keep utter carnage propped up juuuust long enough for W to board a plane to Paraguay.

He picked out a house in an affluent gated community in north Dallas. One that was forced to accept minorities only a decade or so ago.

I have this mental image of him holed up in that little blue-blooded corner of Texas, fighting off federal subpoenas with Texas lawyers and law enforcement till he ends forcing the state to break with the Union in order to save his lying ass.

Winktologist: queezyweezel: Whats amazing to me is that back in 2002, a coworker of mine insisted that Bush was planning on bankrupting the fed, and making his friends rich. I laughed back then, and now I realize she was right.

You just realized this NOW?

I hate to be an ass, but wake up, man.

It's difficult to grasp the scale of this massive theft. And the fact that its being done in broad daylight further complicates things. You just don't expect people to up and steal a trillion dollars on live national television and then get away with it.

The more I read about this bailout the worse it gets. But that's not what makes me break into a cold sweat. What really keeps me up nights is wondering what they're not telling us. we get little leaks and quiet hints of what's going on behind the curtains but we aren't permitted to see the full details. I'm wondering just what it is we're not being told. All that money changing hands absent any clear controlling authority, not to mention little or no audit trail.....well, it makes me suspect that someone will be tempted to steal a bit for themselves. I know I'd be tempted to do so, so it's not difficult to believe others might feel the same. And that's why I'm concerned about all of this.

Eddie_Dean_NY: I have this mental image of him holed up in that little blue-blooded corner of Texas, fighting off federal subpoenas with Texas lawyers and law enforcement till he ends forcing the state to break with the Union in order to save his lying ass.

You're probably right. W himself will be left swinging in the wind. Everyone who profited off him being in power will retreat to their walled enclaves in countries where security teams can legally kill intruders and hedonistically wallow in their spoils.

Occam's Chainsaw: Eddie_Dean_NY: I have this mental image of him holed up in that little blue-blooded corner of Texas, fighting off federal subpoenas with Texas lawyers and law enforcement till he ends forcing the state to break with the Union in order to save his lying ass.

You're probably right. W himself will be left swinging in the wind. Everyone who profited off him being in power will retreat to their walled enclaves in countries where security teams can legally kill intruders and hedonistically wallow in their spoils.

hmm....I wonder what people like that would pay for IT security....

HEY, FED!

1. Just who do you think you are working for?
2. Just where do you think the money you hand out comes from?
3. Just who do you think you are to refuse to tell YOUR EMPLOYERS what you are doing?

/Try that in the private sector

Bush? Congress? this is out of all of their hands. the fed is the most powerful organization in the world, essentially independent, and of course unelected. the whole international banking system is so secretive and beyond the reach of any legit government oversight. We're nearing a century under their control and they seem far harder to remove than any government would be.

Weaver95: hmm....I wonder what people like that would pay for IT security....

For this kind of security down payments are made in gold. Final payments are made in lead. Be careful out there!

TwoHead: Weaver95: hmm....I wonder what people like that would pay for IT security....

For this kind of security down payments are made in gold. Final payments are made in lead. Be careful out there!

I'm just wondering what someone in a bunker dwelling community might want to purchase. They're gonna need SOME sort of supplier. And once the economy finishes going tits up they might be the only people with money to spend.

i'm only half joking too. we're spending a couple trillion with little or no oversight, and that kinda worries me.

Occam's Chainsaw: You're probably right. W himself will be left swinging in the wind. Everyone who profited off him being in power will retreat to their walled enclaves in countries where security teams can legally kill intruders and hedonistically wallow in their spoils.

Actually, I believe you were right the first time. He's got a lot of land down in Paraguay and it's a country that is notorious for being a place failed leaders to flee to.

Can anyone reasonably argue at this point that we haven't been essentially held at gunpoint?

I mean, we have all this big companies that it appears existed only to enrich a handful of people. It turns out that they were run exceptionally poorly, and instead of the company's failing, they told everyone that the economy would crash and we'd have angry mobs unless we gave them tons of money and didn't ask any questions.

For years many of us have been railing against overpaid executives and poor corporate governance. We always get shot down with "this is capitalism, you commie". Well, look where that got us?

I'm not arguing for anything like communism or socialism in this case, but by defending executives and their excessive greed, we've created a situation where companies are used as vehicles to make the top executives a boatload of money at the expense of employees, shareholders, and the general public.

Greed is not good. Desire to get wealthy by creating value is. There is a difference.

It's not news, it's doomsday-hyperbole.com

This man might have something to do with it:

Occam's Chainsaw: That's got to be one of my biggest fears, that the Bush administration is competent enough to keep utter carnage propped up juuuust long enough for W to board a plane to Paraguay. That we're already well and proper farked, and have been for some time, but that there's just enough of it up in the air that we won't find out how deep the dicking will be until early-mid '09.

The sad part is that his supporters will keep blindingly making excuses and defending him, just like they have for the past 8 years.

Its funny. If Bush didn't say that he was 'pro-life,' my parents would hate him and everything he did. That is the only thing they cared about when they voted for him.

I give up.

NeverDrunk23: Occam's Chainsaw: That's got to be one of my biggest fears, that the Bush administration is competent enough to keep utter carnage propped up juuuust long enough for W to board a plane to Paraguay. That we're already well and proper farked, and have been for some time, but that there's just enough of it up in the air that we won't find out how deep the dicking will be until early-mid '09.

The sad part is that his supporters will keep blindingly making excuses and defending him, just like they have for the past 8 years.

Its funny. If Bush didn't say that he was 'pro-life,' my parents would hate him and everything he did. That is the only thing they cared about when they voted for him.

Proof that prolifers are retarded. No one is forcing anyone to get an abortion. The only thing they are doing is keeping abortions unsafe. It's like prohibition. The "cure" is worse than the disease.

NeverDrunk23: Its funny. If Bush didn't say that he was 'pro-life,' my parents would hate him and everything he did. That is the only thing they cared about when they voted for him.


Pro-life, pro-choice, gay marrage. those issues get you elected no matter how horrible you are or how corrupt you'll be when in office.

*sigh*

I should be surprised, but i'm not.

i don't even know if i have the energy to be disappointed any more.

On the one hand, I can see why this information wouldn't be released yet. For the same reason that the FDIC doesn't release its list of troubled banks that are on the verge of failure. It would cause a massive run on those banks, and a cascade effect.

If they told you that 300 of the top 500 fortune companies were on the verge of insolvency, what would people do? Stay calm?

On the other hand, the lack of any governing body to watch over these funds scares me. It's like the patriot act. Rush through legislation, call it an "emergency" and everyone votes for it and forgets about it.

We were talking about appointing a "car czar" to oversee a piddling $15 billion. But do we demand the same thing for $700B? Do we demand it for $2T?

Doesn't that strike anyone as odd?

and just in time to be eligible for BAILOUT MONEY

Two Brazillions?

So Dr. Manhattan really DID leave for Mars.

THATS ALOT A PUDDIN

And yet you have companies receiving these billions of dollars and not changing a damn thing about the way they're run, and they damn sure aren't doing anything to help the people that are actually suffering because of the whole economic crisis.

Hopefully people get up off their asses and we see the violent toppling of 'the fat' in my lifetime.

"1. Just who do you think you are working for?
2. Just where do you think the money you hand out comes from?
3. Just who do you think you are to refuse to tell YOUR EMPLOYERS what you are doing?

/Try that in the private sector"

The federal reserve bank is not a government institution.

absoluteparanoia: We were talking about appointing a "car czar" to oversee a piddling $15 billion. But do we demand the same thing for $700B? Do we demand it for $2T?

Doesn't that strike anyone as odd?

I am trying very hard not to think about the implications of this.

Weaver95: Winktologist: queezyweezel: Whats amazing to me is that back in 2002, a coworker of mine insisted that Bush was planning on bankrupting the fed, and making his friends rich. I laughed back then, and now I realize she was right.

You just realized this NOW?

I hate to be an ass, but wake up, man.

It's difficult to grasp the scale of this massive theft. And the fact that its being done in broad daylight further complicates things. You just don't expect people to up and steal a trillion dollars on live national television and then get away with it.

The more I read about this bailout the worse it gets. But that's not what makes me break into a cold sweat. What really keeps me up nights is wondering what they're not telling us. we get little leaks and quiet hints of what's going on behind the curtains but we aren't permitted to see the full details. I'm wondering just what it is we're not being told. All that money changing hands absent any clear controlling authority, not to mention little or no audit trail.....well, it makes me suspect that someone will be tempted to steal a bit for themselves. I know I'd be tempted to do so, so it's not difficult to believe others might feel the same. And that's why I'm concerned about all of this.

Exactly. Who's going to miss a millie or two when you're dealing with sums in the billions and trillions?

I hate that feeling you get when you're pretty sure you've just been assraped but you don't understand enough about it to be sure.

queezyweezel: Time to stock up on booze and bullets. This economy is going down the shiatter.

Booze and bullets? Don't hurt yourself, but then again, you didn't mention a gun...

FTFA: Congress is demanding more transparency from the Fed and Treasury on bailout, most recently during Dec. 10 hearings by the House Financial Services committee when Representative David Scott, a Georgia Democrat, said Americans had "been bamboozled."

No. Just no. YOU, Congress, have "been bamboozled."

We The People are not a bit surprised.