They're probably just trying to circum... vent a larger conflict

Done in one.Nice.

They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.

Chariset: They're probably just trying to circum... vent a larger conflict

Mandatory military service means all citizens of Israel wear a helmet, even the womenfolk.

Israel wants 6.8 percent of West Bank

They mean another 6.8 percent. They've got about half of it already.

acanuck: They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.

Sad day that will be.

Hmm. I'd like to see a map of it (although maps are hard to come by - it took a little after camp david 2000 to see a scholarly map on it)

Camp David is the close percentage analog - especially around Jerusalem (which still seems not dealt with).


However, since then, Israel has expanded Ma'aleh Adumim along the E1 corridor, against the wishes of the US and splitting the west bank in two and making a Jerusalem deal harder and harder.

(2005) Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told the Senate Foreign Relations committee Wednesday that Israeli building in the E1 corridor between Jerusalem and Ma'aleh Adumim was an act "that would contravene American policy."

"We have told the Israelis in no uncertain terms that [settlement in the E1 area] would contravene American policy," Rice added.

(2005) Sharon vows he will continue construction in West Bank settlements. There will be no second disengagement


(2006) "The policy is the same. There should not be expansion of the settlements and outposts should be removed," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said at a briefing.
However, McCormack said the United States will raise the issue with Israel in private.
"This is an issue that we do talk to the Israeli government about. Often times those discussions are done quietly and they are done privately -- and you may not hear about them -- but we do talk about the issue," he said.
According to media reports, Israel plans to build 690 new homes in two Jewish settlements in the West Bank despite an obligation under the US-backed Middle East "roadmap" peace plan to halt such construction.
(2006) The Israeli authorities on Monday invited tenders for building nearly 700 new housing units in the occupied West Bank, in the largest settlement expansion push for the territory this year. The Housing Ministry published advertisements in the press inviting the bids, with 348 houses to be constructed in Maale Adumim.

(2006) Peres: Settlement construction can't be prevented


(2007) Construction is continuing in dozens of Jewish settlements in the West Bank despite Israel's pledge to freeze their expansion

(Feb 2008) Israeli authorities have appointed five companies to expand a Jewish settlement in occupied east Jerusalem, work which could undermine peace talks with the Palestinians, officials said on Friday.

"This will make it harder to stop the planned building in this controversial district and could jeopardize peace talks with the Palestinians," the newspaper said.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said the move to extend the settlement "doesn't help to build confidence" at a time of renewed peace negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians.

(June 2008) The Israeli government is facing criticism from the White House and the United Nations for its plans to expand Jewish settlements in Jerusalem.

The government announced plans Sunday to build more than 800 homes in East Jerusalem, a move that could hinder international efforts to secure a peace deal by the end of the year.

"The government of Israel's continued construction in settlements in the occupied Palestinian territory is contrary to international law and to its commitments under the Road Map and the Annapolis process," it said.

The "road map" for peace is a plan aimed to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by calling for an independent Palestinian state co-existing with Israel.

The Annapolis process refers to a November conference in Annapolis, Maryland, where the two sides agreed on an outline for the two-state solution.

(2008) U.S. President George W. Bush hopes to get the sides to complete a deal by the end of the year but progress depends on Palestinian action to stop attacks on Israelis and on an Israeli settlement freeze.

Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported Friday that the government had issued permits for construction of 307 Jewish homes in the contentious east Jerusalem neighborhood, of Har Homa, drawing fresh fire from one of the Palestinians' top peace negotiators.

A sign in English and Hebrew on one of the homes read: "This caravan was built in part through a grant from One Israel Fund." The organization's Web site says it is a New-York based charitable group helping Israeli settlers who were evacuated from Gaza.

The "New York Charitable Group" funding a policy in contravention to U.S. negotiated treaties is another connected issue. Weiss talks about this and cites Goldberg on it.

clancifer: Sad day that will be.

Yup, they will likely kill a bunch of people and turn a first world economy into a third world hellhole. Then will have to find someone else to blame for their own ineptitude.

Not saying that with gleeful anticipation, just saying what will likely happen. Would be great if I was wrong.

An Israel thread on Shabbos? No fair, you've handicapped Estee and Tatsuma!

This is going to turn into an anti-Zionist circlejerk right quick.

indylaw: An Israel thread on Shabbos? No fair, you've handicapped Estee and Tatsuma!

This is going to turn into an anti-Zionist circlejerk right quick.

I'm a great fan of the 1947 borders. Most of the world's politicians are great fans of the 1947 borders.

All parties to the conflict in Greater Palestine/Greater Israel are jerks.

Prize to the first person who calls me anti-semitic for that.

opiumpoopy: indylaw: An Israel thread on Shabbos? No fair, you've handicapped Estee and Tatsuma!

This is going to turn into an anti-Zionist circlejerk right quick.

I'm a great fan of the 1947 borders. Most of the world's politicians are great fans of the 1947 borders.

All parties to the conflict in Greater Palestine/Greater Israel are jerks.

Prize to the first person who calls me anti-semitic for that.

A reasoned position? On my FARK? Take an extreme position and stick to it, ya milquetoast bastard :)

/alas, I sense that many politicians around the world will not be satisfied with anything less than the complete annulment of the State of Israel and a re-diaspora of resident Jews.

Oh, and an artist's depiction of where this thread is headed:

look folks, we just need to keep giving Israel their Billions every year. that's not asking too much, is it??

Linux_Yes: look folks, we just need to keep giving Israel their Billions every year. that's not asking too much, is it??

Don't forget fighting wars for them.

indylaw: /alas, I sense that many politicians around the world will not be satisfied with anything less than the complete annulment of the State of Israel and a re-diaspora of resident Jews.

This is based on what, exactly?

Article for you to read (link).

Leverett plunged right into a dramatic new peace proposal floated by Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. Calling for "full normalization" in exchange for "full withdrawal" from the occupied territories, Abdullah promised to rally all the Arab nations to a final settlement with Israel. In his brand-new third-floor office at the Old Executive Office Building, a tiny room with a very high ceiling, Leverett began hammering out the details with Abdullah's foreign-policy advisor, Adel Al-Jubeir. When Ariel Sharon said that a return to the '67 borders was unacceptable, Al-Jubeir said the Saudis didn't want to be in the "real estate business" -- if the Palestinians agreed to border modifications, the Saudis could hardly refuse them. Al-Jubeir believed he had something that might actually work.

But the White House wasn't interested. Sharon already rejected it, Rice told Leverett.

At the Arab League meeting, Abdullah got every Arab state to sign his proposal in a unanimous vote.

The White House still wasn't interested.
.....snip...

When he came back, Bush gave Abdullah his word that he would deal seriously with the Palestinian issue.

"Okay," Abdullah said. "The president of the United States has given me his word."
...snip.....

Then the king of Jordan came to Washington to see Bush. There had to be a road map for peace in Palestine, the king said. Despite the previous experience with Abdullah in Crawford, Bush seemed taken by surprise, Leverett remembers, but he listened and said that the idea of a road map seemed pretty reasonable.
...snip...

Finally, it was a bitter-cold day just after Thanksgiving and Leverett was on a family trip to the Washington Zoo, standing in front of the giraffe enclosure. The White House patched through a call from the foreign minister of Jordan, Marwan Muasher, who said that Rice had just told him the road map was off. "Do you have any idea how this has pulled the rug out from under us, from under me?" Muasher said. "I'm the one that has to go into Arab League meetings and get beat up and say, 'No, there's going to be a plan out by the end of the year.' How can we ever trust you again?"

On Monday, Leverett went straight to Rice's office for an explanation. She told him that Ariel Sharon had called early elections in Israel and asked Bush to shelve any Palestinian plan. This time Leverett couldn't hide his exasperation. "You told the whole world you were going to put this out before Christmas," he said. "Because one Israeli politician told you it's going to make things politically difficult for him, you don't put it out? Do you realize how hard that makes things for all our Arab partners?"

Rice sat impassively behind her broad desk. "If we put the road map out," she said, "it will interfere with Israeli elections."

"You are interfering with Israeli elections, just in another way."

"Flynt, the decision has already been made," Rice said.

I'd share a foxhole with the IDF anytime!

fifteen posts into a thread on Israel and no Tatsuma? I'm confused

acanuck: They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.


Can't happen fast enough. Israel is the worst thing to happen to Jews since Moses lost his map.

/Jew

Weekly address is up. (new window)

indylaw: Oh, and an artist's depiction of where this thread is headed:fark dude, get Shamino something better than a short sword, and Iolo is crap - I don't care what anyone says, you can't be manly if your name is Iolo or your fantasy weapon of choice is a crossbow. Gay, gayer and gayest imo.

Oh and yeah, who am I supposed to hate again in this one? I can't remember which group of crazy religious fanatics I'm supposed to support.

Ill-covered (US) recent conflict in the occupied territories when the Israeli government evicted a settler house.

opiumpoopy: indylaw: An Israel thread on Shabbos? No fair, you've handicapped Estee and Tatsuma!

This is going to turn into an anti-Zionist circlejerk right quick.

I'm a great fan of the 1947 borders. Most of the world's politicians are great fans of the 1947 borders.


Oh hey you mean those borders that Israel had before Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon attacked?


Three times.

Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am.
Swampthing in Korea: Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

Gee, thanks for that imput.

Rovian: Weekly address is up. (new window)

That said a whole lot of nothing. Where is Bush's Weekly address?

Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Its funny, but I'be been having a little difficulty trying to figure where this is politically in contemporary Israeli politics.

On one hand, you have outgoing Olmert now saying (after the policies above) that Israel should return to 1967 (and East Jerusalem) - though this article seems to reflect his now lost clout.

Now, all of a sudden, Livni - the centrist/moderate candidate says this and this

"Transfer" has been mooted explicitly only by far right-wingers in Israel.

Ms Livni is hoping to become Israel's next prime minister, and opinion polls suggest she is in a close race with the right-wing Likud party.

Some Israeli politicians have suggested she may be trying to project a hardline image in an attempt to draw votes away from Likud.

Ms Livni tried to clarify her comments on Friday.

"There is no question of carrying out a transfer or forcing them [Israeli Arabs] to leave," she told public radio.

"I am willing to give up a part of the country over which I believe we have rights so that Israel will remain a Jewish and democratic state in which citizens have equal rights, whatever their religion," she added.

Meanwhile, a prominent far right-wing Likud member, Moshe Feiglin, has been demoted on the party's candidate list.

Mr Feiglin, a settler who has espoused extreme anti-Palestinian views, was originally 20th but has been moved to 36th, making his election much less likely.

Party officials said the change was for technical reasons relating to the promotion of regional candidates; Mr Feiglin alleged it was politically motivated.

Election tensions

In remarks to school children broadcast on Israeli radio, Ms Livni's said her solution for maintaining a Jewish and democratic state of Israel was "to have two distinct national entities".

"Among other things I will also be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel... and tell them: 'Your national aspirations lie elsewhere.'"

Arab MP Ahmed Tibi demanded that Ms Livni be absolutely open about what she meant, as befits a candidate for Israel's prime ministership.

"She must decide whether she means to leave 1m Arabs without political rights or a national identity, or whether she really intends to transfer 1m Arab citizens to the Palestinian state that will be established," he told Israeli army radio.

acanuck: They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.

Can you say Apartheid? I thought you could. There's a reason Israel and South Africa were staunch allies in the 80's

they'll keep biatching because those evil Joos won't give back east Jerusalem - perfectly understandable considering what happened after 1948 (Jewish quarter ransacked, Jewish graves ripped up and used as paving stones, Western Wall used as the world's biggest urinal etc.)

The Morans Guy: Joos won't give back east Jerusalem - perfectly understandable

Everytime I see this, I think about this thread where people were reacting (in a very spirited fashion) over a report where the PA alleged to have said they wanted all of Jerusalem. I got dogpiled for pointing out how this seemed incorrect. I was right about that, btw.

Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.



That's damned near what they have been doing. Wall them off into a ghetto, with little roads, medical care or even water. When they fire a big bottle rocket over the wall, cry to the world how evil they are, bomb the piss out of them and steal some more land vis a vis a settlement. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Genocide by degrees.

Chariset: They're probably just trying to circum... vent a larger conflict
↑↑↑↑
BRIS!
I can't stand these headlines any mohel...

Apik0r0s: Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.



That's damned near what they have been doing. Wall them off into a ghetto, with little roads, medical care or even water. When they fire a big bottle rocket over the wall, cry to the world how evil they are, bomb the piss out of them and steal some more land vis a vis a settlement. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Genocide by degrees.

No, I am in favor of full withdraw to the 1967 borders and bring border control back to the Palestinians, the same with their air-space. End the occupation totally.

Then when the Palestinians prove they are unable to live alongside Israel, conquer and deport them.

Also, you have no idea what genocide means, do you?

acanuck: They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.

secular? It's a jewish state numpty

Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

wow. kristallnacht much?

Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am.

you know who else was right-wing.

TwistedFark: indylaw: Oh, and an artist's depiction of where this thread is headed:fark dude, get Shamino something better than a short sword, and Iolo is crap - I don't care what anyone says, you can't be manly if your name is Iolo or your fantasy weapon of choice is a crossbow. Gay, gayer and gayest imo.

Oh and yeah, who am I supposed to hate again in this one? I can't remember which group of crazy religious fanatics I'm supposed to support.

Didn't have Dupre or a Glass Sword at that point, sorry.

And Shamino is named after a bicycle (Lord British was riding his bike with a Shimano gear shift when he was brainstorming about characters). I've just outed myself as an old-school geek.

Not gonna argue the point that there are fanatics on both sides of the conflict. Most on the Israeli side, however, are secular humanist fanatics... Shas being an exception to the rule.

Devil Slide Wolf: Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am.

you know who else was right-wing.

Reagan?

Devil Slide Wolf: Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

wow. kristallnacht much?

Kristallnacht was an assault against Jewish citizens in Germany. It was the result of anti-semitism.

Nothing to do with what I am proposing.

Swampthing in Korea: Devil Slide Wolf: Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

wow. kristallnacht much?

Kristallnacht was an assault against Jewish citizens in Germany. It was the result of anti-semitism.

Nothing to do with what I am proposing.

Right. It's just the opposite. With Arab citizens. In Israel.

Devil Slide Wolf: acanuck: They don't care about a conflict - the Arab population will soon exceed that of the Jews...that means this little "democratic" and "secular" state will lose control of the government.

secular? It's a jewish state numpty

Jewish as a broader social group, not Jewish solely as a religious body. The (fundamentally) religious are a small but very vocal swing-minority in Israel, much like the "Republican Jesus" bornagains in the United States. Most Jews in Israel are only Jewish insofar as they have names like Goldfarb and don't pay retail. They even roll on Shabbos!

cameroncrazy1984: Swampthing in Korea: Devil Slide Wolf: Swampthing in Korea: Personally, as right-wing as I am. I believe Israel should withdrawl totally from the west-bank.

Then, after they have built their wall, give complete land and air sea access to both the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait around six months to a year. After the Palestinians have proven how wonderfully idiotic they are by continuing suicide and rocket attacks, Israel can turn to the world, shrug their shoulders and then say "we told you guys. We gave it out best shot".

Move back into the areas by force, expel the Palestinian population and annex the whole area into a Greater Israel.

Problem solved.

wow. kristallnacht much?

Kristallnacht was an assault against Jewish citizens in Germany. It was the result of anti-semitism.

Nothing to do with what I am proposing.

Right. It's just the opposite. With Arab citizens. In Israel.

No, I never mentioned Arab citizens of Israel, only the Palestinains in the Gaza and West-Bank.

Swampthing in Korea: No, I never mentioned Arab citizens of Israel, only the Palestinains in the Gaza and West-Bank.

You're an idiot. So what you're saying is, you're not ok with Arab countries attacking Israel, but you're perfectly ok with Israel attacking Palestinians.

The dichotomy is breathtaking.

Kind of weird that someone claiming to be a psychologist should spend so much time debating Israel/Palestine on FARK threads to the point of knowing exactly where each thread is.

Ah, but the strawberries! That's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, and with geometric logic, ...

What's the DSM IV say about you doctor boy?

Apik0r0s: Wall them off into a ghetto, with little roads, medical care or even water. When they fire a big bottle rocket over the wall, cry to the world how evil they are, bomb the piss out of them and steal some more land vis a vis a settlement. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Genocide by degrees.

Sounds like the the U.S. strategy in Iraq as well. Wonder where they got that plan from. Iraq was Israel's and the neo-conz (same entity) war.

cameroncrazy1984: Swampthing in Korea: No, I never mentioned Arab citizens of Israel, only the Palestinains in the Gaza and West-Bank.

You're an idiot. So what you're saying is, you're not ok with Arab countries attacking Israel, but you're perfectly ok with Israel attacking Palestinians.

The dichotomy is breathtaking.

No, I am okay with Israel doing it once they have ended the occupation and, after enduring Palestinian attacks, have proven that the Palestinians will not be able to function as peaceful neighbors.

Swampthing in Korea: No, I never mentioned Arab citizens of Israel, only the Palestinains in the Gaza and West-Bank.

I think you're right about it not being like Kristallnacht. What you're proposing is more like ethnic cleansing. I think people are confusing them because the sheer immorality of it is similar.

Swampthing in Korea: No, I am okay with Israel doing it once they have ended the occupation and, after enduring Palestinian attacks, have proven that the Palestinians will not be able to function as peaceful neighbors.

Ohhh, I get it. You have a mythical crystal ball!

The jews need more lebensraum. How dare you guys think they don't deserve the entire middle east that was given to them by god himself. Why are you guys so anti-semetic?

Damnhippyfreak: Swampthing in Korea: No, I never mentioned Arab citizens of Israel, only the Palestinains in the Gaza and West-Bank.

I think you're right about it not being like Kristallnacht. What you're proposing is more like ethnic cleansing. I think people are confusing them because the sheer immorality of it is similar.

And if the Palestinians prove to be unreliable neighbors, it will be a viable tactic.

cameroncrazy1984: Swampthing in Korea: No, I am okay with Israel doing it once they have ended the occupation and, after enduring Palestinian attacks, have proven that the Palestinians will not be able to function as peaceful neighbors.

Ohhh, I get it. You have a mythical crystal ball!

Look at all the attacks allowed by Hamas.