Disgraceful. What a butthead.

GaryPDX: Disgraceful. What a butthead.


Gary , what are you talking about? Carter started us on the path of energy independence via conservation. Speaking of buttheads, how do you find that disgraceful? What was disgraceful was the way in which the Reagan administration gutted all the conservation efforts and left us where we are now.

Really Gary do you ever think before you type?

BritneysSpeculum: Really Gary do you ever think before you type?

I don't like it when anyone suggests using a crisis mentality to further their BS agenda. It's manipulation and offensive. I don't care what the agenda is, the method of which to manipulate people is what is disgusting.

GaryPDX It's manipulation and offensive.

Yes, it is - however, Americans have proven time & again that they are not going to change anything until they are forced to do so. The downturn in gas prices has spiked SUV sales again. There is absolutely no changing this public through intelligent messages.

The brightest kids are saying the only way we'll change is by high gas prices or a mandate to change. Which would you prefer?

Rain-Monkey: GaryPDX It's manipulation and offensive.

Yes, it is - however, Americans have proven time & again that they are not going to change anything until they are forced to do so. The downturn in gas prices has spiked SUV sales again. There is absolutely no changing this public through intelligent messages.

The brightest kids are saying the only way we'll change is by high gas prices or a mandate to change. Which would you prefer?

The subject is fine. I burn biodiesel and make wind turbines in my shop. Energy diversity is crucial. BUT!! There is no difference between FEAR THE TERRORISTS!! and FEAR WALKING AROUND IN THE DARK!!. It's still using fear and crisis to manipulate a population.

Using fear and crisis to manipulate the masses is disgusting, I don't care who does it.

Yup, energy conservation was all Carter did. In fact, it was the only thing going on in the world at the time. Everything else was peachy keen! Energy conservation, that's why Carter was a bad President! That's the ticket!

BritneysSpeculum: Carter started us on the path of energy independence via conservation. Speaking of buttheads, how do you find that disgraceful? What was disgraceful was the way in which the Reagan administration gutted all the conservation efforts and left us where we are now.

Carter didn't say anything about Obama perpetuating a crisis mentality.

He just said that America never change unless there is a crisis.

And that Barack should use his honeymoon period to try and get legislation passed.

GaryPDX: Disgraceful. What a butthead.

Man, like two or three months ago you had a streak where you were just on fire and actually engaged people in how you felt and for a second, I thought you actually made sense on a couple things. Now you're just back to petty trolling, what a disappointment. Buck up

How DARE we talk about real problems?! America must be coddled at all times, pandered to as if nothing is wrong, and treated like they are the greatest nation in the world and don't have to do anything to earn that title!

Everybody go shopping!

Thanks a BUNCH, Jimmy!

Mr. Carter offers Mr. Obama this advice: Try to inspire Americans to see the virtue in making energy sacrifices, a notoriously tough sell, especially in the face of falling prices. Get energy legislation to Congress quickly, during the presidential honeymoon. And stick with it.

Or, frame it this way: Ever barrel of oil that we don't have to buy from the Saudis, the Venezuelans, the Russians is money that can either stay in the US or, more importantly, won't be used by those countries that sell us oil to fund anti-American propaganda.

If Obama came out and put the issue in those terms, he'd be able to unite the right wing security hawks and the left wing renewable energy cloud.

GaryPDX: Using fear and crisis to manipulate the masses is disgusting, I don't care who does it.

Iraq, Patriot Act, torture, illegal wiretapping....

Couldn't agree with you more, Gary.

Mr. Carter offers Mr. Obama this advice: Try to inspire Americans...

zomg fear fear fear!

KaponoFor3: Mr. Carter offers Mr. Obama this advice: Try to inspire Americans to see the virtue in making energy sacrifices, a notoriously tough sell, especially in the face of falling prices. Get energy legislation to Congress quickly, during the presidential honeymoon. And stick with it.

Or, frame it this way: Ever barrel of oil that we don't have to buy from the Saudis, the Venezuelans, the Russians is money that can either stay in the US or, more importantly, won't be used by those countries that sell us oil to fund anti-American propaganda.

If Obama came out and put the issue in those terms, he'd be able to unite the right wing security hawks and the left wing renewable energy cloud.

He has. Many times.

The problem is that "right wing security hawks" also support the oil industry and don't want to support the change needed to convert to renewable energy.

They don't want to give up their over sized SUVs, McMansions, and disdain for public transportation.

BritneysSpeculum: GaryPDX: Disgraceful. What a butthead.


Gary , what are you talking about? Carter started us on the path of energy independence via conservation. Speaking of buttheads, how do you find that disgraceful? What was disgraceful was the way in which the Reagan administration gutted all the conservation efforts and left us where we are now.

Really Gary do you ever think before you type?

Carter kicked a struggling economy in the balls with an energy policy that was built on a backward, Malthusian view of the world.

sloppy shoes: They don't want to give up their over sized SUVs, McMansions, and disdain for public transportation.

Doesn't Obama roll around in some over sized SUVs? Or if he doesn't, doesn't his security detail?

McMansions is such a stupid, stupid term. I get the impression that people who use that term also use the term Bushbot a lot.

filth: Carter kicked a struggling economy in the balls with an energy policy that was built on a backward, Malthusian view of the world.

Setting the thermometer to 67 degrees and wearing sweaters is Malthusian?

WTF dude.

KaponoFor3: Doesn't Obama roll around in some over sized SUVs? Or if he doesn't, doesn't his security detail?

The president doesn't decide his mode of transportation. That is up to the secret service.

BritneysSpeculum: filth: Carter kicked a struggling economy in the balls with an energy policy that was built on a backward, Malthusian view of the world.

Setting the thermometer to 67 degrees and wearing sweaters is Malthusian?

WTF dude.

National 55 speed limit. By any measure, this was a terribly misguided policy.

I think we should pretend there is no crisis, encourage people to buy gas guzzlers, then invade and occupy oil-rich Arab states. Which worked out so totally awesome...

filth: National 55 speed limit. By any measure, this was a terribly misguided policy.

That was Nixon, not Carter. 1973 Oil Crisis.

Details here.

BritneysSpeculum: The president doesn't decide his mode of transportation. That is up to the secret service

I figured as much. I'm sure with a little bit of his influence though he could persuade them to start switching over to more energy efficient vehicles.

filth: National 55 speed limit. By any measure, this was a terribly misguided policy.

As Darth noted that was Nixon, but even if it was Carter, how is that Malthusian? How does driving 55 mph stem the natural growth of population? Wouldn't that take Sammy Hagar a little too literally? Actually lower speed limits would be anti-Malthusian since there is a direct correlation between speed limits and automobile accident fatalities and I believe that the relationship is exponential. I'll say again WTF dude?

KaponoFor3: BritneysSpeculum: The president doesn't decide his mode of transportation. That is up to the secret service

I figured as much. I'm sure with a little bit of his influence though he could persuade them to start switching over to more energy efficient vehicles.

Aren't those things armored to the hilt and generally all souped up? I don't think an armored Prius would cut it.

Many cars in the government fleet could be replaced, but when it comes to transporting targeted individuals, fuel efficiency is of little concern.

Darconix: But I thought you libs were welcoming Obama as Jimmy Carter's second term? A chance for you to make even more farkups than you did back then. It's just as well, though. The night is darkest just before the dawn. Carter gave us Reagan. Obama will give us Palin.

Palin is Reagan after the onset of Alzheimer's. But please keep her front and center as the future of the GOP. Even Sacha Obama could beat her in 2012.

BritneysSpeculum: Setting the thermometer to 67 degrees and wearing sweaters is Malthusian?

WTF dude.

the fact that there is just a limited amount of whatever in the world and that we need to unnecessarily suffer now to prevent all of us from suffering from a predicted apocalypse later.

in actuality, when we eventujally face a shortage of something, like oil, we'll develop the alternatives we need. it's happened throughout history, and it will happen again. technology, innovation, discovery, and science will prevail like they always have.

albo: the fact that there is just a limited amount of whatever in the world and that we need to unnecessarily suffer now to prevent all of us from suffering from a predicted apocalypse later.

in actuality, when we eventujally face a shortage of something, like oil, we'll develop the alternatives we need. it's happened throughout history, and it will happen again. technology, innovation, discovery, and science will prevail like they always have.

But that is not Malthusian. A government policy that promoted freezing old people in the winter, now that is Malthusian, but 67 degrees is quite comfortable in a cardigan.

BritneysSpeculum: But that is not Malthusian

yes, but not speaking for whomever said that, perhaps he was referring to carter's downer of a pessimistic and fatalistic attitude

Under Jimmy Carter's leadership US oil imports from the Middle East fell so fast that the ability of OPEC to influence prices was broken for a decade. Just one more year of such policies would have been enough to completely eliminate US oil imports from the Middle East. Reagan returned the US to dependence on Arabs and created the situation that lead to war in Iraq.

It is really interesting that the one thing so called conservatives hate more than anything else is a strict, unyielding message about the need for discipline coming from a Southern Baptist.

KaponoFor3:
Doesn't Obama roll around in some over sized SUVs? Or if he doesn't, doesn't his security detail?

McMansions is such a stupid, stupid term. I get the impression that people who use that term also use the term Bushbot a lot.

As people have noted, Obama doesn't pick his transportation. (Nor did I say all SUVs were bad- the impractical use of them is).
Well, if we are going to go off impressions, I have gotten the impression that you are a fool and a partisan "independent" hack from previous threads.
/I've never used the term Bushbot; I used the term McMansion for the imagery it invokes.

albo: BritneysSpeculum: But that is not Malthusian

yes, but not speaking for whomever said that, perhaps he was referring to carter's downer of a pessimistic and fatalistic attitude

First, Carter was not a downer or a pessimist or a fatalist. He actually had great confidence in the capacity of man to solve problems. But even if he was all those things that is not Malthusian either. Malthus suggested that the only way to deal with exponential population growth was either to count on natural disaster such as famine to kill off the least of us or to have the government embark on the same through war or other measures.

Darconix: But I thought you libs were welcoming Obama as Jimmy Carter's second term?

You can ascribe your own words to us all you want. It doesn't make it any more true.

albo:
the fact that there is just a limited amount of whatever in the world and that we need to unnecessarily suffer now to prevent all of us from suffering from a predicted apocalypse later.

in actuality, when we eventujally face a shortage of something, like oil, we'll develop the alternatives we need. it's happened throughout history, and it will happen again. technology, innovation, discovery, and science will prevail like they always have.

And basic economic theory predicts that prices will rise until those subsequent innovations are invented and made.

Or, if we started reforming now, we could have everything ready in a peaceful transition and not cause huge commodity bubbles as we are switching from one standard to the other.

BritneysSpeculum: filth: National 55 speed limit. By any measure, this was a terribly misguided policy.

As Darth noted that was Nixon, but even if it was Carter, how is that Malthusian? How does driving 55 mph stem the natural growth of population? Wouldn't that take Sammy Hagar a little too literally? Actually lower speed limits would be anti-Malthusian since there is a direct correlation between speed limits and automobile accident fatalities and I believe that the relationship is exponential. I'll say again WTF dude?

I'll admit that Nixon's energy policy is probably the only one worse than Carter's. 55 remained a tenet of the Carter energy policy, and was extended in '79. As for Malthus, read for yourself.

filth: I'll admit that Nixon's energy policy is probably the only one worse than Carter's. 55 remained a tenet of the Carter energy policy, and was extended in '79. As for Malthus, read for yourself.

I read it. There is no Malthus in there buddy.

BritneysSpeculum: albo: BritneysSpeculum: But that is not Malthusian

yes, but not speaking for whomever said that, perhaps he was referring to carter's downer of a pessimistic and fatalistic attitude

First, Carter was not a downer or a pessimist or a fatalist. He actually had great confidence in the capacity of man to solve problems. But even if he was all those things that is not Malthusian either. Malthus suggested that the only way to deal with exponential population growth was either to count on natural disaster such as famine to kill off the least of us or to have the government embark on the same through war or other measures.

No. The central Malthusian fallacy is ignorance of innovation.

BritneysSpeculum: filth: I'll admit that Nixon's energy policy is probably the only one worse than Carter's. 55 remained a tenet of the Carter energy policy, and was extended in '79. As for Malthus, read for yourself.

I read it. There is no Malthus in there buddy.

Shrinking resources. You may need to expand your definition of "Malthusian."

Man, if there's one thing that conservatives really hate, it's conserving.

sloppy shoes: Well, if we are going to go off impressions, I have gotten the impression that you are a fool and a partisan "independent" hack from previous threads.

At least have the balls to come out and say it rather than hiding it in white.

Besides, I've never denied I am conservative or that I am not a fan of the Democrats as currently constituted. But I think if you ask around, you'll find out that I am one of the more moderate conservatives here. I believe in gay marriage/rights, limited gun control measures, legalization of marijuana, etc. I'm socially liberal but fiscally ultra-conservative.

KaponoFor3:
At least have the balls to come out and say it rather than hiding it in white.

Besides, I've never denied I am conservative or that I am not a fan of the Democrats as currently constituted. But I think if you ask around, you'll find out that I am one of the more moderate conservatives here. I believe in gay marriage/rights, limited gun control measures, legalization of marijuana, etc. I'm socially liberal but fiscally ultra-conservative.

Hehe. The point of hiding it in white was to show you that it is a stupid comment, just like your over generalization about "people who use McMansion."

And I'm glad you believe in those things.

That doesn't preclude us from needing energy reform, though. Nor does it deny that Obama has argued that it is a national security issue.

People who say that it is a grave national security issue but then spout "Drill, Baby, Drill" as the only solution- or nuclear- are missing the point.

sloppy shoes: Or, if we started reforming now, we could have everything ready in a peaceful transition and not cause huge commodity bubbles as we are switching from one standard to the other

but what incentive is there to "reform" with prices low and oil still plentiful?

and the market will be much more effective at this when the time comes than the government picking its favored winners through subsidies and grants--which are wholely political. Look at the disaster ethanol and biodiesel subsidies have been to the world food supply and economy. the market will be much smarter than the government when the time comes

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Man, if there's one thing that conservatives really hate, it's conserving.

we love conserving. i have a timer on my water heater and we replaced the old furnace with a 93 percent efficiency one.

but i did that based on rational reasons based on the economic benefits i'd realize. that's what we want to encourage, not government mandates or policies.

GaryPDX: BritneysSpeculum: Really Gary do you ever think before you type?

I don't like it when anyone suggests using a crisis mentality to further their BS agenda. It's manipulation and offensive. I don't care what the agenda is, the method of which to manipulate people is what is disgusting.

of which to! of which to!

GaryPDX: BritneysSpeculum: Really Gary do you ever think before you type?

I don't like it when anyone suggests using a crisis mentality to further their BS agenda.

So you want the terrorists to win?

President Carter is a bigoted idiot who should have stuck to building houses. That said, we do need to pursue other avenues. Whether your concerns are environmental, economical, or philosophical (giving your money to the wort cultures in the world) we should all be able to agree that we need to look elsewhere. This cheap gas won't last forever and even if it did, fark the Middle East and Russia.

Does this mean I can leave my shoes on at the airport yet?

Are all Republicans chicken shiat cowards?