It is ass backwards and hookers are almost as fun as blow.

Because People in power are Stupid: It is ass backwards and hookers are almost as fun as blow.

I think Vitter probably knows that, but he was tactful enough not to mention it in the interview.

Say Sen. now I say hey Sen. put down the book and listen up.

This here's a ball. And if you're gonna have the balls to lay on enough cornpone to get you a Miss Prissy of your own you best learn right here and now it's "Bass Ackwards". So if you're gonna represent the swamp you best start speakin' swamp now ya hear?

Poor kid, don't have the heart to tell him he was born outta a King Cake and has the personality to show fer it.

So the auto companies should be turning down a bill to give $15 billion to Congress? I don't get it

The Republicans need to STFU and let the adults lead the country for a while.

Calvin Coolidge: The Republicans need to STFU and let the adults lead the country for a while.

But that means they'll get stuck in the corner when they mess up! NO FAIR!

Calvin Coolidge: The Republicans need to STFU and let the adults lead the country for a while.

Damn straight. They've already done their bailouts. It's time for some good Democrat bailouts.

Calvin Coolidge: The Republicans need to STFU and let the adults lead the country for a while.

You think it's a good idea to give them the money then ask for their plans? Shouldn't they have a plan (wasn't that the point when they drove to DC?) before they get the money?

The only oversight here is to recall the loans. We either let them keep it, or recall it. Once they have it, no one is going to recall it. Instead of doing nothing, it would be seen as pulling the plug on the auto industry. It's an ass backwards idea.

brap: Say Sen. now I say hey Sen. put down the book and listen up.



Not amused with your shenanigans

Seems like the Republicans are all of a sudden turning into concern trolls.
Where was all this fiscal responsibility when they ran up the national debt by several trillion dollars when they were in charge of the Congress, Senate and Presidency for six years?

Deep pocket Johnny is up for reelection in 2010.

carnifex2005: concern trolls

That phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I wonder why all these southern senators are against this bill?

Could it be that they would rather have their Toyota and Hyundai plants building cars than the great lakes states?

Thanks for gambling the country's economy on trying to get a few more jobs for your state. Trading 3 million unemployed northerners so your constituents can afford more meth, Huzzah!

List of taxpayer funded subsidies to foreign auto makers:

Subsidies (new window)

Just food for thought.

carnifex2005: Where was all this fiscal responsibility when they ran up the national debt by several trillion dollars when they were in charge of the Congress, Senate and Presidency for six years?

And what makes it OK now that Dems are running the show?

rorypk: Thanks for gambling the country's economy on trying to get a few more jobs for your state. Trading 3 million unemployed northerners so your constituents can afford more meth, Huzzah!

It's not southern senators who have put those northerners in the position they now enjoy.

GoldSpider: carnifex2005: Where was all this fiscal responsibility when they ran up the national debt by several trillion dollars when they were in charge of the Congress, Senate and Presidency for six years?

And what makes it OK now that Dems are running the show?

Remember all those arguments against spending billions in Iraq? You remember. Think of all the things that money could be doing here? Well, here we are. The Democrats believe it's their turn to spend. And they intend to. I'm surprised the Republicans are against this.

I think Vitter having a job at tax payer expense is 'ass backwards'.

GoldSpider: carnifex2005: Where was all this fiscal responsibility when they ran up the national debt by several trillion dollars when they were in charge of the Congress, Senate and Presidency for six years?

And what makes it OK now that Dems are running the show?

Saving America's manufacturing base for a loan of $15b versus sending money to Iraq for no clear reason for $1t.

Which is better? Don't forget to show your math.

I still think trying to revive GM as an auto manufacturer is a terrible idea. GM doesn't have the visionary product they need to break into the market in a new way. If we could get them building something useful like solar panels or tidal harnesses they might have a chance.

cltbuilder: Think of all the things that money could be doing here? Well, here we are.

Spending billions of tax dollars in Iraq was a terrible idea. It doesn't make giving billions of tax dollars to a poorly-managed and union-hamstrung industry a good idea. Sorry.

rorypk: Saving America's manufacturing base for a loan of $15b

You think that $15b is going to save GM alone? Let alone the entire American manufacturing base??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

rorypk: Saving America's manufacturing base for a loan of $15b versus sending money to Iraq for no clear reason for $1t.

Which is better? Don't forget to show your math.

Why can't both be bad?

GoldSpider: cltbuilder: Think of all the things that money could be doing here? Well, here we are.

Spending billions of tax dollars in Iraq was a terrible idea. It doesn't make giving billions of tax dollars to a poorly-managed and union-hamstrung industry a good idea. Sorry.

I agree. I don't like giving money to banks or insurance companies either.

Rovian: I still think trying to revive GM as an auto manufacturer is a terrible idea. GM doesn't have the visionary product they need to break into the market in a new way. If we could get them building something useful like solar panels or tidal harnesses they might have a chance.

Yeah that or those healing crystals hippies sell.

Man if ADM could start growing rainbows all our problems would be solved.

GoldSpider: You think that $15b is going to save GM alone?

And this too... it'll be at least about $75b by the time it's all done.

cltbuilder: I agree. I don't like giving money to banks or insurance companies either.

So then we are in agreement. Nice to meet you!

sarcastrophe: rorypk: Saving America's manufacturing base for a loan of $15b versus sending money to Iraq for no clear reason for $1t.

Which is better? Don't forget to show your math.

Why can't both be bad?

Cause saving our manufacturing base and keeping 3 million people employed isn't a bad thing?

rorypk: GoldSpider: carnifex2005: Where was all this fiscal responsibility when they ran up the national debt by several trillion dollars when they were in charge of the Congress, Senate and Presidency for six years?

And what makes it OK now that Dems are running the show?

Saving America's manufacturing base for a loan of $15b versus sending money to Iraq for no clear reason for $1t.

Which is better? Don't forget to show your math.

Uh, that's a false dichotomy. Why not do neither (I realize its a little to late for that whole Iraq thing, but honestly why can't someone be against all wateful spending?)

rorypk: keeping 3 million people employed isn't a bad thing?

That's not a bad thing, but it's not my responsibility either.

rorypk: Cause saving our manufacturing base and keeping 3 million people employed isn't a bad thing?

Oh. You bought into the fear tactics... right. Also, there were WMDs in Iraq, so it's a good thing we took care of that, too.

GoldSpider: rorypk: keeping 3 million people employed isn't a bad thing?

That's not a bad thing, but it's not my responsibility either.

So what industry are you in that you wouldn't worry about 3 million people becoming unemployed? Your profile says your from PA, if Ohio went under, no effects would be felt there?

Bailout bill text - pdf warning

In case anyone wants to read the actual legislation. They have to submit their plans by March 31, 2009. If they don't, they might have to repay the money sooner than 7 years. Ass backwards.

sarcastrophe: rorypk: Cause saving our manufacturing base and keeping 3 million people employed isn't a bad thing?

Oh. You bought into the fear tactics... right. Also, there were WMDs in Iraq, so it's a good thing we took care of that, too.

Everyone involved is using that exact number. It's pretty easy to grab the last census or the publicly available information on the publicly traded companies to see how many people are actually employed by them.

What industry are you all employed in where the demise of the big3 wouldn't hurt you? Paying extra taxes on your income is better than no income right?

rorypk: So what industry are you in that you wouldn't worry about 3 million people becoming unemployed? Your profile says your from PA, if Ohio went under, no effects would be felt there?

Oh I imagine there would be some effect, but to be honest I don't know if the company I work for does any business with the Big Three. Trust me, we have a big stake in the American manufacturing sector, but that doesn't justify borrowing money from future generations to temporarily support a failed business model.

Oh.. my.. gods.. I just figured out what's going on here. What happens if 3 million people become unemployed now and military benifets go up? I don't know who's in on it, but somebody's got the plan.

/engages tin foil hat

So when do we bail out the construction industry? I'm sure new home starts mean that a lot of us are out of work, right? Why the concern with the auto industry, but not realtors, contractors, construction laborers, tilers, roofers, HVAC workers, etc and so forth? Many of us are self employed and don't show up on unemployment filings. You dig?

rorypk: Paying extra taxes on your income is better than no income right?

So let's just throw out bankruptcy entirely, and just have taxpayers subsidize every failing business in America?

rorypk: Everyone involved is using that exact number. It's pretty easy to grab the last census or the publicly available information on the publicly traded companies to see how many people are actually employed by them.

You think these companies, the manufacturing plants, their market share, and the labor would just disappear if there was a liquidation?

GoldSpider: rorypk: So what industry are you in that you wouldn't worry about 3 million people becoming unemployed? Your profile says your from PA, if Ohio went under, no effects would be felt there?

Oh I imagine there would be some effect, but to be honest I don't know if the company I work for does any business with the Big Three. Trust me, we have a big stake in the American manufacturing sector, but that doesn't justify borrowing money from future generations to temporarily support a failed business model.

How is it a failed business model? What sells for more than 1k nowadays that people can actually afford to buy? Cars? No. Houses? No. Plasmas? Maybe? No one can afford anything. The failed model is much bigger than auto companies. If oil speculators wouldn't have pushed oil through the roof and the credit crunch wouldn't have happened there would be no problem.

And if there were 3 million unemployed workers I'd imagine at least one would be willing to do your job cheaper than you would. You know these companies employ huge numbers of accountants, artist, IT guys, and engineers right? Hope your boss is adverse to paying new workers less than he pays you.

rorypk, you do realize that $15bn is about 3 months worth for these companies, right? Assuming the economy doesn't get any worse, that is. What then? More money? And then when that runs out? More money? And when that runs out?

sarcastrophe: rorypk: Everyone involved is using that exact number. It's pretty easy to grab the last census or the publicly available information on the publicly traded companies to see how many people are actually employed by them.

You think these companies, the manufacturing plants, their market share, and the labor would just disappear if there was a liquidation?

Yeah, Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, and Honda all had the option of buying old Ford and GM plants and equipment and they didn't. They build plants in the south where they don't have to pay retirement benefits or school taxes. Sure the nameplates would sell, but the factories would be worth nothing more than scrap metal.

Three million unemployed workers cannot be absorbed by our economy fast enough to counteract the vicious cycle of company after company going under. These workers buy lots of products from many different companies based all over this country. If your company sells any amount of goods or services to the auto manufacturing region, you will feel this pain.

rorypk: How is it a failed business model?

They insisted on pushing huge trucks and SUVs when the market was clearly trending towards smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Through inflexible manufacturing practices they were unable to switch production fast enough. And thanks to crippling union contracts, they still have to compensate workers and retirees at rates that don't reflect current market conditions.

If what I'm saying isn't true, explain to me why foreign automakers aren't looking for a bailout?

rorypk

How much of our money (which we haven't even earned yet) do you think it will cost to keep the industry afloat long enough to outlast the recession?

GoldSpider: rorypk

How much of our money (which we haven't even earned yet) do you think it will cost to keep the industry afloat long enough to outlast the recession?

I think we need to know how long the recession is going to last, first.

cltbuilder: rorypk, you do realize that $15bn is about 3 months worth for these companies, right? Assuming the economy doesn't get any worse, that is. What then? More money? And then when that runs out? More money? And when that runs out?

Give them what they need. Chrysler received a $1.2b loan last time we had a combined credit/oil crisis. They paid it back 8 years early and the government made back $336m in fees. 27% ROI in a little over 3 years. You must be confusing secured loans with the money freely given to the banking industry. This is an entirely different situation, it's a loan to companies who have tangible assets that can be used as collateral. I suppose if the big3 handed Vitter a stack of paper and told him it was worth $700b all would be fine.

rorypk: Yeah, Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, and Honda all had the option of buying old Ford and GM plants and equipment and they didn't. They build plants in the south where they don't have to pay retirement benefits or school taxes. Sure the nameplates would sell, but the factories would be worth nothing more than scrap metal.

Three million unemployed workers cannot be absorbed by our economy fast enough to counteract the vicious cycle of company after company going under. These workers buy lots of products from many different companies based all over this country. If your company sells any amount of goods or services to the auto manufacturing region, you will feel this pain.

Well gee, you mean they can function at a profit in non UAW states? The horror!

You're right. It would be rough. A lot of these states that breed corruption may have to rethink their priorities as their economy crumbles to nothingness. That's the way it's supposed to work. Does it hurt? Sure it does. It's also necessary.

rorypk: Trading 3 million unemployed northerners so your constituents can afford more meth, Huzzah!

It'd be funny if it weren't so true...

/southwestern VA

rorypk: cltbuilder: rorypk, you do realize that $15bn is about 3 months worth for these companies, right? Assuming the economy doesn't get any worse, that is. What then? More money? And then when that runs out? More money? And when that runs out?

Give them what they need. Chrysler received a $1.2b loan last time we had a combined credit/oil crisis. They paid it back 8 years early and the government made back $336m in fees. 27% ROI in a little over 3 years. You must be confusing secured loans with the money freely given to the banking industry. This is an entirely different situation, it's a loan to companies who have tangible assets that can be used as collateral. I suppose if the big3 handed Vitter a stack of paper and told him it was worth $700b all would be fine.

No. I know it's a loan. I even posted the link to the legislation up above. What's their fair market value right now?

Yes because if you question a Democrat-led 15 billion bailout to Detroit, you OBVIOUSLY supported the Iraq war...