"But we are more than willing to let your kids pay for our tax cuts!"

Link Fail.

So...we don't have to pay for Bush's government pension, health care, benefits and secret service protect?

Great.

Who's Congress going to get to payroll them, then?

"Another element of the distinctive Japanese economic style was the insulation of major companies from short-term financial pressures. Members of the Japanese keiretsu- groups of allied firms organized around a main bank- typically owned substancial quantities of each other's shares, making management largely independent of outside stockholders. Nor did Japanese companies worry much about stock prices, or market confidence, since they rarely financed themselves by selling either stocks or bonds. So Japanese firms didn't have to worry about short-term profitability, or indeed much about profitability at all.

...The result of this system, claimed both those who admired and those who feared it, was a country able to take the long view."

~Paul Krugman, pg 59-60, The Return to Depression Economics

Now, Krugman also points out that this lead to many problems for them later on; however, it also has brought them a competitive advantage in many instances.

But it also points out how the Auto industry in general is not as "free market" as anyone wants to make it out to be. The simple fact is that Detroit has lobbied and played defensive strategies for years at the same time Japan has used their government to push their industries also.

sloppy shoes: The simple fact is that Detroit has lobbied and played defensive strategies for years at the same time Japan has used their government to push their industries also.

This is all true. However, it does not change the fact that the Big Three are managed by utter morons who cannot actually build cars that people want to buy. This cannot be said about Japanese (or Korean or European) automakers.

sloppy shoes:
~Paul Krugman, pg 59-60, The Return toof Depression Economics



FTFM. The rest of the quote is accurate- did the title off my head, obviously got to re-learn the accurate title.

MasterThief:
This is all true. However, it does not change the fact that the Big Three are managed by utter morons who cannot actually build cars that people want to buy. This cannot be said about Japanese (or Korean or European) automakers.

While I won't defend all their past managers, as many of them have been bad, in all reality they are just as much of a victim to our national desires (SUV's sold- quite well; economists debated for years how much gas would have to go up before people would care in this country), corporate raiding, and a financial crisis that they have little to do with. GM and Ford would be getting loans if the banks had not imploded. Chrysler would either be owned by GM or in bankruptcy right now. GM has a long term plan, obvious cars for the future, and is still the number one automaker in the world- and America.

Japanese and European cars are 1. not all that they are praised to be, but 2. they weren't always good either. There were years of Honda making trash. The reality is that yes, American auto companies did make quite a few bad cars for a while; however, they make good or better than average cars now and have plans for the future. (Shiat, American car companies bought quite a few foreign companies and made them better).

Lastly, while we all criticize the unions for making evil contracts- the attitude and expenses of corporate America, in general, are much more at fault and cost much more. Further, the American auto union has already made the proper concessions for the future. If you feel they were overpaid, fine, but you must also concede that they were only doing what was natural and rampant across all fields- fighting for better wages, pensions, and security.

sloppy shoes: There were years of Honda making trash.

Were as in past tense. Today, their cars are generally superior and, because they kept making smaller cars with alternate engines, in demand. For decades, American car makers have been saying their cars are better. For decades, their cars have been showing otherwise. While American cars may be better now, they've burned too many customers in the past to expect drivers to all of the sudden embrace them.

I, and my family have owned both American and foreign cars over the decades. The American cars seemed to always have to be fixed for something or another. Not so with the foreign cars. My wife and I own two foreign cars and now, at 9 years old, I'm finally being forced to do some non-ordinary maintenance to one of them (gas fuel sensor shows I have a small fume leak).

As to the car that needs a little work, my wife and I are looking into replacing it as our family is bigger now and we could use a small SUV, Crossover or wagon that gets good mileage, has 4-wheel drive for winter and has decent/flexible storage. I couldn't find a domestic car that fit the bill.

submitter: "Republicans Voters will not allow taxpayers Republicans to subsidize failure," says GOP leader; somehow also manages to keep a straight face and not add "anymore" as an afterthought

There you have the explanation for the spanking the GOP took on Nov. 4th.

Democrats... you're next. Adapt or die.

headline perfectly summarizes how I feel.
But about both parties, not just the republicans.

Is anyone else just getting a map of the US when they click on the link?

Can republicans just do us all a favor and kill themselves?

Funny you should mention that. We've been paying the bills for neoliberalism for 30 years, and I don't particularly see things getting better. I guess that's what happens when you enrich the rest of the world at your own expense to save a few pennies at Walmart. Thanks, Reagan! Thanks, Bush I! Thanks, Clinton! Thanks, Bush II!

Does that mean that we don't have to provide a paycheck to Congressmen any more??? That's the biggest failure I can think of.

Seriously, these Republicans have NO interest in solving problems or fixing things. The just hang around for the gov't paycheck.

I can't think up a clever name: Is anyone else just getting a map of the US when they click on the link?

Well...at least you have ...such as...a map, ah, now.

Shaggy_C: Funny you should mention that. We've been paying the bills for neoliberalism for 30 years, and I don't particularly see things getting better. I guess that's what happens when you enrich the rest of the world at your own expense to save a few pennies at Walmart. Thanks, Reagan! Thanks, Bush I! Thanks, Clinton! Thanks, Bush II!


If you had taken out just that one word you'd be on to something.

pacified: Can republicans just do us all a favor and line up at the edge of the Grand Canyon and kill themselves?

FTFY.

/hates digging

You know, I agree with the policy point. US taxpayers should not be forced to subsidize an industry that has dug its claws into our pockets, closed up shops when it became cheaper to ship jobs and parts rather than support American communities, and failed - FAILED - to provide any glimmer of an alternate fuel car in the foreseeable future (the Volt isn't hitting the markets in 2009, folks. Sorry to disappoint).

However, this doesn't mean that I'm gonna start taking Art Appreciation classes from Stevie Wonder.

those ole' RePugs don't mind subsidizing the Pentagon. half a Trillion worth per year. money well spent, i'm sure.

Shaggy_C: Funny you should mention that. We've been paying the bills for neoliberalism for 30 years, and I don't particularly see things getting better. I guess that's what happens when you enrich the rest of the world at your own expense to save a few pennies at Walmart. Thanks, Reagan! Thanks, Bush I! Thanks, Clinton! Thanks, Bush II!

Yeah, this. Soon India will be hiring us for their call centers for a quarter an hour.

Shaggy_C: neoliberalism

You're going to confuse people with that word. They won't know what the hell you're talking about.

pacified: Seriously, these Republicans have NO interest in solving problems or fixing things. The just hang around for the gov't paycheck.

How are they different from anyone else in politics?

It's not about Dems and Reps - it's about which faction of the Power-Seekers' Country Club gets to make the rules for a few years. It really doesn't matter who makes the rules if the rules always make things worse for those who aren't members of their caste.

Had the economy hit the wall next year instead of this year, Obama and Co. would do the same damned thing Bush did. Maybe the money would flow to a few different places - my Dem congresswoman voted against the bailout bill because it didn't go far enough, not because she felt her constituents shouldn't shoulder the responsibility.

It wouldn't really matter who gave the bailout and why since the unwashed masses would still have to suffer the impending economic ruin.

Government isn't Right or Left - it's just a bunch of idiots who can't produce anything of value, so they push around people who can.

link useless

Flappyhead: If you had taken out just that one word you'd be on to something.

Neoliberalism is basically free trade and interventionist foreign policy. Almost all American politicians are neoliberals in that sense.

It shouldn't be confused with neoconservatism.

pacified: Can republicans just do us all a favor and kill themselves?

You first.
And then them, yes, even those with capital Ds behind their name.

sarcastrophe: You're going to confuse people with that word. They won't know what the hell you're talking about.

Too late:

Flappyhead: If you had taken out just that one word you'd be on to something.

Though to be fair, I guess contextually it doesn't really make sense...I meant it in the sense that we pay for a failed government trade policy, which doesn't exactly work with the word 'subsidize'...though maybe it's some kind of interesting double entendre.

...Now that we've raped and looted your Treasury and given all of your money to our friends through Faith Based Initiatives, War and Bailouts. Thank You, please to come again.

sarcastrophe: Shaggy_C: neoliberalism

You're going to confuse people with that word. They won't know what the hell you're talking about.

They need to go back to before the Reagan revolution, and check out guys like Medved, Horowitz, and Strauss, and that whole clan - and see where they came from. Hell - Reagan himself was once a card-carrying Communist. It makes a whole lot of apparently nonsensical things much clearer.

Would you like some corn chips? Corn syrup? Corn meal? Corn bread? Corn gas? Corn blow? Corn pickles? Corn a la carte? Fermented corn? Braised corn? Chipped corn? Corn in a blanket?

There is going to be nothing but FAIL, no matter which party is running things.

Those that actually believe Barry and pals are gonna fix everything should start getting your list of lameass excuses together now.

Then repeal the child tax credit.

tdpatriots12: Neoliberalism is basically free trade and interventionist foreign policy. Almost all American politicians are neoliberals in that sense.


No, its not. Neoliberalism is not what has been going on the last 30 years. The law, and the country, for better or worse, woul dbe VERY different.

Let's give tax money to companies that make cars we don't buy. Better yet, let's make the car we don't buy government cars. fark that shiat.

Good god almighty, fark that shiat. And godbless Patrick "Harvey Dent" Fitzgerald. He'll probably end up getting half his face burned off but if the Reverund Jackson goes down, it would have been worth it.

PascalsGhost: Neoliberalism is not what has been going on the last 30 years.

WTF? It's economic policy and has almost nothing to do with foreign policy from a perspective of the military. Free trade policies, low tax rates, and mass deregulation are hallmarks of neoliberalism. In what way have those things NOT been the main drivers of our economy since the late 1970s?

sloppy shoes: "Another element of the distinctive Japanese economic style was the insulation of major companies from short-term financial pressures. Members of the Japanese keiretsu- groups of allied firms organized around a main bank- typically owned substancial quantities of each other's shares, making management largely independent of outside stockholders. Nor did Japanese companies worry much about stock prices, or market confidence, since they rarely financed themselves by selling either stocks or bonds. So Japanese firms didn't have to worry about short-term profitability, or indeed much about profitability at all.

...The result of this system, claimed both those who admired and those who feared it, was a country able to take the long view."

~Paul Krugman, pg 59-60, The Return to Depression Economics

Now, Krugman also points out that this lead to many problems for them later on; however, it also has brought them a competitive advantage in many instances.

But it also points out how the Auto industry in general is not as "free market" as anyone wants to make it out to be. The simple fact is that Detroit has lobbied and played defensive strategies for years at the same time Japan has used their government to push their industries also.
Having family that stil works in the auto parts supply business, i could not agree iwth you more.

Speaking of subsidizing failure, do you realize there is going to be a George W. Bush, Jr. Presidential Li-bary, even if it's only a corner in the Geo. H.W. Bush Presidential Library?

I'm guessing that any book he ever read didn't do any good.

It didn't take.

Fundamentalist Christians must still be glowing blue from his recent remarks on Biblical inerrancy, for example. There's one book that didn't take on an epic scale.

It's not his fault. He belongs to one of those Protestant churches that are big on Jesus and the Bible but don't actually have any theology or strict ethics besides "Americanism", respectability, and keeping up with the Reverend Jones' Service & Missions fund.

Now that he can't run for President again he can give the Fundies the finger and go back to playing golf with his base--which is anybody who can afford the Greens Fees at a Dallas country club. I hope he's got better with a golf club than he has with an air force.

And better coordination than he has with a Segueway.

Speaking of Segueways...I've got nothing.

Softens_hands_while_you_do_the_dishes: Let's give tax money to companies that make cars we don't buy. Better yet, let's make the car we don't buy government cars. fark that shiat.

You know, there was a quote, and I don't remember it exactly...but right before the Pearl Harbor bombing, one of the generals told the emperor: "We cannot win a war against the Americans. I've seen Detroit."

There's a reason I bring that up. Without a war machine infrastructure in the United States, WTF are we going to have on the Chinese when they overtake us both economically and militarily?

DRTFA, but I have to presume this means that this guy is in favor of massive cuts to the military.

Shaggy_C: Funny you should mention that. We've been paying the bills for neoliberalism for 30 years, and I don't particularly see things getting better.

I think the whole problem right now is that we haven't been paying the bills.

improvius: I think the whole problem right now is that we haven't been paying the bills.

Not in the slightest. The problem with the Big 3 (or any other industry) is that our neoliberal trade policies put higher priorities on 'free' trade at any cost rather than protecting the American worker and American industry. You can't buy American cars in Japan very easily. Why? They tariff car imports. Not only that, but they subsidize their own auto industry. Yet we cling to the idea that the market should be 'free'. Except it's not free when you're doing it unilaterally. That's just selling yourself short.

Explain to me what in that has to do with the national debt?

MasterThief: This is all true. However, it does not change the fact that the Big Three are managed by utter morons who cannot actually build cars that people want to buy. This cannot be said about Japanese (or Korean or European) automakers.

The current crisis, however, is hitting ALL the car companies, even the foreign ones. Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are having comparably low sales this year as GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

Pretty much every company is coming in 30-45% below where they were last year to date in sales.

It's not just an American problem.

sloppy shoes: MasterThief:
This is all true. However, it does not change the fact that the Big Three are managed by utter morons who cannot actually build cars that people want to buy. This cannot be said about Japanese (or Korean or European) automakers.

While I won't defend all their past managers, as many of them have been bad, in all reality they are just as much of a victim to our national desires (SUV's sold- quite well; economists debated for years how much gas would have to go up before people would care in this country), corporate raiding, and a financial crisis that they have little to do with. GM and Ford would be getting loans if the banks had not imploded. Chrysler would either be owned by GM or in bankruptcy right now. GM has a long term plan, obvious cars for the future, and is still the number one automaker in the world- and America.

Japanese and European cars are 1. not all that they are praised to be, but 2. they weren't always good either. There were years of Honda making trash. The reality is that yes, American auto companies did make quite a few bad cars for a while; however, they make good or better than average cars now and have plans for the future. (Shiat, American car companies bought quite a few foreign companies and made them better).

Lastly, while we all criticize the unions for making evil contracts- the attitude and expenses of corporate America, in general, are much more at fault and cost much more. Further, the American auto union has already made the proper concessions for the future. If you feel they were overpaid, fine, but you must also concede that they were only doing what was natural and rampant across all fields- fighting for better wages, pensions, and security.

Even if the quality is there now, they are uuuuugly.

barneyfifesbullet: Those that actually believe Barry and pals are gonna fix everything should start getting your list of lameass excuses together now.

No need to. We can always just cut and past from your posts about President Bush.

I guess the whole Reagan policy of protectionism back in the 1980s doesn't count as "subsidizing failure" to them.

What a bunch of odd birds those out of touch f*cks are in Congress...

Link (new window)

Yay, my first greenlight!