Green Day are recidivist plagiarizers.

I cannot believe they have not gotten sued like crazy

It's kind of tough to come up w/ something truly original.

BobtheFascist: It's kind of tough to come up w/ something truly original.

This is how I feel whenever topics like that Satriani/COldplay thing arise. I feel that its entirely possible for a band to write an almost similar song to another one without knowing

especially if you're a band like Green Day, and play a lot of main chords, or using very clichéd chord change

take a song like "American Idiot", that riff is so obvious, I wonder how many songs are almost the same

/not a put-down on GREEN DAY, they farking rock

I don't blame Satriani, Coldplay's song is such a blatant ripoff it is almost comical.

Coldplay and Satriani played at the same time..

Link (new window)

Coldplay rip off everyone. They even ripped off themselves. I remember hearing "Speed of Sound" and thinking "Oh, someone ripped off 'Clocks'"

HappyHarryHardOn: BobtheFascist: It's kind of tough to come up w/ something truly original.

This is how I feel whenever topics like that Satriani/COldplay thing arise. I feel that its entirely possible for a band to write an almost similar song to another one without knowing

especially if you're a band like Green Day, and play a lot of main chords, or using very clichéd chord change

take a song like "American Idiot", that riff is so obvious, I wonder how many songs are almost the same

/not a put-down on GREEN DAY, they farking rock

the issue with green day and american idiot is that green day DID know the band they ripped off, having played with them and released music with them. but it doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother them.

/ dillinger four, "doublewhiskeycokenoice", if you haven't heard it
// likes green day too

pink floyd ripped off the beatles. i have nothing to back that up with. im just listening to pink floyd and wanted to share.

all_arm: HappyHarryHardOn: BobtheFascist:
/ dillinger four, "doublewhiskeycokenoice", if you haven't heard it
// likes green day too

thanks,. Never heard that song before. Damn, it was indeed, very similar. faaaaaaaaark me....

My favorite, which I've never heard anyone else mention, is Sublime's "What I Got" and "Lady Madonna" by the Beatles. It's uncanny.

Damn, Peaches got ripped off big time.

man avril lavigne is on a tear! has she done anything original?

Just for the record...

That UB40 song was originally done by Lord Creator back in like, '68 I think. One of my all time favorite ska songs. Back when everybody played around a single mic in the middle of the studio. Beautiful song.

/not that anybody really gives a damn about ska anymore
//it's still real to me dammit! (sob)

Not sure that the Michael Buble one should count; I don't believe that "Save The Last Dance For Me" is even an original of his, is it?

The Avril Lavigne/Vanessa Hudgens one is so blatant it's comical. And HOLY SHIAT does Green Day play the rip-off card...Now all we need is to see Avril rip off Green Day's rip-off of someone else's song, and the circle will be complete

I have the sheet music for surfing USA and Chuck Berry is credited as the author words and music

Dear_Leader: I have the sheet music for surfing USA and Chuck Berry is credited as the author words and music

Berry threatened to sue Brian's ass off, so he relented and gave Chuck his due.

CHEATERS!!!!
THIEVES!

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT IF YOU'RE TRULY ORIGINAL, EVERY SONG YOU WRITE HAS A CHORD PROGRESSION THAT HAS NEVER BEEN USED BEFORE!!!

I'M TRULY ORIGINAL AND WROTE A SONG WITH THIS CHORD PROGRESSION:

Verse:
C#m Emaj A7 B7 D7 Gmaj G#maj Amaj G#maj Gmaj G#maj Gmaj G#maj (repeat 3x)

Lyrics: (In Esperanto)

mangxi mia kato
mangxi mia kato
mangxi mia kato
mangxi mia kato


Chorus:

D9 (Delightfully funky)

Phillips is a screwdriver
Ya, Baby (Repeat 2x)

SEE, TAHT'S HOW YOU WIRTE AN ORIGINAL SONG, BE LIKE ME

Skinny Puppy - Dig It (new window)

Nine Inch Nails - Down In It (new window)

Killing Joke - Eighties vs Nirvana - Come As You Are (new window)

I wish that an intro to music theory was a mandatory class in school.

It's all math baby!

C D E F G A B

There are only SEVEN notes in western music (if you don't count accidentals/keys and what not)
and only so many ways to arrange those notes into a chord shape. Once you have the chords there are only so many ways to put those together to sound "good"

2+2=4
2x2=4
2²=4

Using the blues or common rock as an example:

I,V,& IV chords are the usual format of that type of music
So starting in E will get you a song of E, A, B.

C D E₁ F G A₄ B₅

That right there when put into a 12 bar shuffle is just about every blues song ever written.

The formulas you use just depends on what/how you want play.

Yes, it sucks that it seems many songs are "major rip offs" of other material but a lot of it is just the way music works.

Bot v2.38beta: SEVEN notes in western music

That's a foolish way to look at it. You note the 1,4,5 arrangement, but that most commonly uses diminished 7ths, an accidental in the major scale, to move between chords, so that automatically adds 2 more notes. (dim7 of the 5th is natural 4th)

It's not the note that's important, however, it's the chording.

If we only include the triad, that gives us 11 major and 11 minor triads.

That gives us 22 chords and yes, the major and minor of a chord can certainly be modulated between in a coherent fashion.

So the argument that repetition is inevitable is as silly as saying that since there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet, it's impossible to write a unique sentence.

Bot v2.38beta: I wish that an intro to music theory was a mandatory class in school.

Et tu?

Ray Parker Jr actually got sued over "Ghostbusters" by Huey Lewis.

my favorite are the musicians that get sued by their record label, FOR SOUNDING OR NOT SOUNDING LIKE THEMSELVES. John Fogerty got sued for writing a song that sounded like "Born On The Bayou" WHICH HE ALSO WROTE. and Neil Young got sued for "Weld" or "Arc Weld" for making music THAT DIDN'T SOUND LIKE NEIL YOUNG.

Come on, is any of this really as blatant as Kid Rock's new track "All Summer Long" ?

He chopped Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of London" and Lynard Skynard's "Sweet Home Alabama" in half, wrote new sacrilegiously shiatty lyrics and stitched the whole thing together to create some franken-song, a ridiculous musical abortion.

Fark you Kid Rock, Fark you with a rake.

Oh, stop! That's sick!

I agree! Nutter was singing in the wrong key!

No I wasn't! It was Loutzenheiser! I was singing in E flat minor.

The song's in F sharp major!

I think they're the same thing. I mean, E flat is the relative major of F sharp.

No it isn't! The relative minor is three half-tones down from the major, not up!

No, it's three down. Like A is the relative minor of C major.

But isn't A sharp in C major?

Wait, are you singing mixolydian scales or something?

Didn't Jimi Hendrix once say something about true genius is being able to hide who you ripped off. There are only 12 notes per octave, considering how many millions of songs have been written they are ALL going to have something in common with another song if not almost completely identical. The notes don't matter the sentiment and heart do.

Sven-O Quote 2008-12-09 11:42:28 PM
Oh, stop! That's sick!

I agree! Nutter was singing in the wrong key!

No I wasn't! It was Loutzenheiser! I was singing in E flat minor.

The song's in F sharp major!

I think they're the same thing. I mean, E flat is the relative major of F sharp.

No it isn't! The relative minor is three half-tones down from the major, not up!

No, it's three down. Like A is the relative minor of C major.

But isn't A sharp in C major?

Wait, are you singing mixolydian scales or something?



And you sir are awesome.

/nothin like the trappin liiiiiiiife.

Who didnt know knew Green Day were Bryan Adams fans?

fty

Green day sucks

Except Beach Boys really did rip off Chuck Barry...

I mean really... It couldn't even be coincidental...

"Time Bomb" by Godsmack is an EXACT ripoff of "Last" by NIN. We're not just talking a vague similarity here. It's. The Same. Farking. Song.

Never understood why Reznor didn't sue the fark out of Godsmack for that one.

FlyingPig: "Time Bomb" by Godsmack is an EXACT ripoff of "Last" by NIN. We're not just talking a vague similarity here. It's. The Same. Farking. Song.

Never understood why Reznor didn't sue the fark out of Godsmack for that one.

Same reason Skinny Puppy didn't sue him for ripping off 'Dig it'?

The idiot who made this video overlooked the fact that Huey Lewis ended up suing Ray Parker Jr. because the Ghostbusters theme ripped him off...

Other way around pal.

GimpyNip: Skinny Puppy - Dig It (new window)

Nine Inch Nails - Down In It (new window)

I've always thought this was somewhat bullshiat. Yes, Trent did sample Dig It... but I didn't even figure it out until a good 5+ years after owning both albums.


Sampling doesn't automatically equal ripoff.

wow. the majority of those were pretty/very close.

don't forget
"Father and Son" by Cat Stevens vs. "Fight Test" by The Flaming Lips

BobtheFascist: It's kind of tough to come up w/ something truly original.

its really not, and theres lots of us.

3rdLostPassword: Bot v2.38beta: SEVEN notes in western music

So the argument that repetition is inevitable is as silly as saying that since there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet, it's impossible to write a unique sentence.


Not to beat what I think is a dead horse, but I can use all 26 letters in a single sentence and still write something coherent and perhaps even eloquent, but I cant use all 22 chords you've mentioned in a single tune and not expect people to say "hzuh wut".

The video mashup link that was posted earlier makes my point; "Key and tempo are controllable variables, where as the main key to this argument is harmonically and melodically based. Key and tempo should be irrelevent in this respect."

FeedTheCollapse: GimpyNip: Skinny Puppy - Dig It (new window)

Nine Inch Nails - Down In It (new window)

I've always thought this was somewhat bullshiat. Yes, Trent did sample Dig It... but I didn't even figure it out until a good 5+ years after owning both albums.


Sampling doesn't automatically equal ripoff.

NIN samples a lot, but the songs are so completely different. Unlike many of those in the video for this thread where the music and lyrics follow exactly along.

Paula's Beautiful Bloodshot Eyes: Damn, Peaches got ripped off big time.

how do steal a melody from a song that has no melody? Also, Save The Last Dance is a Lieber and Stoller song that predates the Beatles. And Huey Lewis didn't plagiarize Ray Parker, it was the other way around. Lewis sued and won.

Crewmannumber6: how do steal a melody from a song that has no melody?

How're you gonna sing it to your friends? Will it go round in circles?

jestme: Crewmannumber6: how do steal a melody from a song that has no melody?

How're you gonna sing it to your friends? Will it go round in circles?

No! It's gonna fly high like a bird up in the sky!

3rdLostPassword: So the argument that repetition is inevitable is as silly as saying that since there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet, it's impossible to write a unique sentence.

That analogy really doesn't fit, we're talking about popular music here, although there are technically that many chords and combinations, and there are only a few select octaves and keys you can play the chords in that will sound "right" with a typical rock band vocal accompaniment. 95% of your random combinations will end up sounding like a straining garbage disposal or a wood chipper.

A better analogy would be there are 8 basic colors in the rainbow that painters can choose from, and it's how they blend and apply these colors that makes a great composition, but not every mixture is going to be pleasing to the eye.

Just off the top of my head, take
Am - G - F - G

This is used by:
All Along the Watchtower
California Dreaming
Stairway to Heaven
Dream On (Aerosmith)

I'm sure you could easily find 10 more if you searched.

Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit uses the same chord riff as Boston's More than a Feeling. There's even a clip of Nirvana breaking into a few bars of More than a Feeling during SLTS on Youtube. Blatant.

More than a Feeling also uses an arpeggiated D chord that is svetructured very similarly to Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama, but sounds entirely different because of how it is played and arranged, but it's the same chord shape, same notes, just different order, different emphasis. That's the magic.

I can't count how many times I've played a riff from sheet music and it didn't sound like anything familiar, until I looped it and played it over and over, then it sounded like what my ear was used to hearing. This is very common with Zeppelin.

I could go on and on, there is a fairly limited range, a musical tree that all leads back to Blues and Honky Tonk, but it's the same stuff.

The real trick is reusing the same notes without the songs sounding alike, that's where the artistry comes in. Minor pentatonic and blues scale to start with. I - IV - V and shuffle rhythm, and right there you have about 90% of the first 40 years of rock and roll.

All those Green Day ripoffs, and they missed this one? (new window)

Crewmannumber6: Also, Save The Last Dance is a Lieber and Stoller song that predates the Beatles.

And the Beatles used to cover this song, back in the Cavern days.

destitute college kid: and "Lady Madonna" by the Beatles. It's uncanny.

I always thought "What I got" had a familiar sound. Never put the two together. I am a huge fan of both.

/Has "The End" on his arm.

Also, "Save the last Dance for Me" is not a Michael Buble song. It's the Platters, IIRC.

this whole notion that "Waahhhh, its hard to be original... wahhh, there's only 7 notes" etc. yes. its hard to be original in rock and roll, but somehow ALL the greats have done it. You think it was easy to innovate in in 1973? after the 60s? but iggy pop and then all the punk rockers pulled it off. original sound, original style, songs that weren't obvious ripoffs.

Its a CHALLENGE, damn it. don't whine, just overcome it.

\green day should probably retire

D, A, Bm, F#m, G, D, G, A....


Recognize that? Of course you do. It's Pachelbel's canon in D, and that mathematical chord structure is what you will find in 97% the music of today, the 90s, 80s, 70s, and 60s. Music from the 50s was all written by Robert Johnson, who wrote it in the 20s and 30s. Music is repetitive by nature. There are only so many chords that go with other chords, and all of those have been figured out and done to death already. So the only thing to do is to use chords that don't go with other chords and make a song that doesn't make any sense musically, but if I wanted to listen to Incubus, I'd just kill myself first.


/ Your favorite band sucks
// unless it's Starland Vocal Band

Silent Lucidity=Comfortably Numb
(Another Green Day)Waiting=Do You Wanna Dance (Various - 60s)
Part of Black Gold remind me of Fly By Night (though just slightly)

I think the Summer Of 69/Jesus of Suburbia is stretching...a bit.

How many hip hop songs actually play the exact recording rips of existing songs? I remember when Vanilla Ice got hammered for using the bass line from "Under Pressure" from Queen.

That's almost comical now as every rapper does it.


/feels dirty for actually sounding like I'm defending Ice Ice Baby

Green Day sucks. I'm not surprised they're ripping people off. Same goes for Coldplay, Avril Lavigne, and pretty much every shyster who's "in" music wise at this point in time. These days it's all about auto-tuned bullshiat.

Lt_Aurum: I cant use all 22 chords you've mentioned in a single tune and not expect people to say "hzuh wut".

Perhaps you're a better writer than musician, then.

mailnride: there are only a few select octaves and keys you can play the chords in that will sound "right" with a typical rock band vocal accompaniment

Sure, sure. Lots of folks relied on standard 1-4-5 for a time. Then someone thought to throw in a 6m and 2m. Then someone else had the bright idea to do a 1-3m-4-5 arrangement, etc., etc.

I'm just saying the excuse that originality is difficult due to limited chording is a crock.

Green Day - Stray Cats anyone?