Since when has having a gun, lots of ammo, and being proficient with it, ever been a bad thing?

As for the "gripped by fear" part. Life is gonna go on. There may be some local or national disasters where life will suck for a period of time, but in the long run, life will go on.

Being as self sufficient as possible will make any such disasters more bearable/survivable. Seeing as this disaster is involving their government, this could last anywhere from short term to medium term.

Crosshair: Since when has having a gun, lots of ammo, and being proficient with it, ever been a bad thing?

It's the fixation that creeps the rest of us out. It soooo much more than a self-defense tool or hobby for some people. That's weird. They are a tool. They serve a purpose. Perhaps they provide a source of entertainment at times for some. But it's not like guns are a constructive force or means for creative expression like playing the piano.

I mean, I have a fire extinguisher. I know how to use it. I would only use it in extreme circumstances to save life or property. I don't want to have to use it. But you don't see me making it a central pillar of my self-identity. I do support your right to own them.

/I guess I shouldn't be judging what other people do with their time so long as it's legal, but it still seems weird, like focusing on black magic or voo-doo.
//That's the "liberal-ish" perspective.

Check it out, biatches.


/fire extinguisher porn

So is that where all the scaredy-cat Republicans who biatched that they would leave Merca if Obama was elected went?

j/k. sorta.

They're kidding, right? Do they realize this is a schism that is entirely normal under most parliamentary democracies? That this parliament is simply prorogued, not dissolved (which is also possible in a constitutional democracy)? That this only lasts until January? That the government still exists and operates until then? That this is part of the the legitimate and proper role of the Governor?

Right?

This situation is at best marginally unusual, and at worst a short-term crisis (in the literal sense), but nowhere near a disaster that will last any significant amount of time. The news media beating this into a state where anyone thinks this is a 'disaster', and where 72% of Canadians are 'scared' is truly absurd, and indicative of a base ignorance of the parliamentary process.

I can't speak for any of the people that are fearful, but I suspect a lot of it has to do with the turmoil itself and the overwhleming dramatics that have poured onto the airwaves.

It's sort of like a political shockwave.


And-1: They're kidding, right? Do they realize this is a schism that is entirely normal under most parliamentary democracies? That this parliament is simply prorogued, not dissolved (which is also possible in a constitutional democracy)? That this only lasts until January? That the government still exists and operates until then? That this is part of the the legitimate and proper role of the Governor?

Right?

This situation is at best marginally unusual, and at worst a short-term crisis (in the literal sense), but nowhere near a disaster that will last any significant amount of time. The news media beating this into a state where anyone thinks this is a 'disaster', and where 72% of Canadians are 'scared' is truly absurd, and indicative of a base ignorance of the parliamentary process.

the problem is that people have taken the parliamentary system for granted because coalitions have barely any sort of precedent in Canadian political history. Most of our governments have been majorities, and when they aren't, the minorities normally fall too quickly to develop the coalition system.

Top this off with Harper, in order to try and keep his job, has turned a political crisis into a NATIONALISM crisis, which has far-reaching consequences that haven't even been in the political discourse in nearly 2 decades. He has flared up regional tensions to the point where people are, yes, AFRAID that canada will somehow magically disintegrate into nothingness if the coalition gets into power.

My read on this is that once the shock of it all wears off, as long as harper is unable to succeed is his current fear-PR campaign, the Canadian people will calm the fark down and realize what a coalition actually means rather than what they fear. The key is the crushing of the national-unity-crisis rhetoric; it is what is mainly stirring up the additional fear-mongering, esp. amongst CPC supporters.

A sad day for Canada
By agreeing to shut down parliament, the governor general saved the bacon of Stephen Harper's besieged Conservatives

Michael Stickings
guardian.co.uk, Thursday December 4 2008 22.00 GMT



The political situation in Canada - coup, crisis, call it what you want - continues to take new and dramatic turns. On Thursday morning, as expected, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, seeking to avoid a confidence motion - which he would lose, given that his Conservative government only has a minority of the seats in the House of Commons - met with governor general Michaëlle Jean to ask her to prorogue, or end, the current session of Parliament. Instead of calling for another election or turning to the Liberal-New Democratic coalition (which, with support from the Bloc Québécois, holds the majority in Canada's House of Commons), Jean granted his request.

What this means is that there won't be another confidence motion until parliament resumes sitting late in January - seven weeks from now - at the earliest. The government may then lose a confidence vote on the Throne Speech, which will begin the next parliamentary session, or on the budget, but, in the meantime, both sides will campaign aggressively to woo public opinion - the Conservatives even more so given the fact that they have more money than the other parties. In other words, we're about to be sucked into an election campaign but without the election.

The key for the Conservatives will be to convince Canadians that they are in fact serious about dealing with the economic and financial crisis (and that they therefore ought to remain in power). Their reality-denying economic plan contained nothing in the way of stimulation and a lot in the way of right-wing causes (a ban on public sector strikes, anti-pay equity), including an effort to destroy the opposition parties by eliminating public subsidies, but we can be sure that what they come up with next will be generous in its vote-winning ways. To preserves themselves in power, they will promise the world.

As well, the Conservatives will seek to break apart the coalition, or at least to undermine support for it by arguing, as they have been already, that it only has a majority of seats in the House with the support of the separatist Bloc Québécois, a party that, according to Harper yesterday, does not work for the interests of Canada as a whole (even though BQ MPs were democratically elected and, whatever their views on sovereignty, represent Canadians and their interests in the House - they, as much as other MPs, have a mandate, and their votes count just as much).

The key for the Liberals and the New Democrats, as well as for the BQ (which has signed on to support their coalition into 2010), will be to remain united and determined through what promises to be a bitter and contentious campaign for public support over the next month and a half or so. It would look bad for them to split apart or back down now. But there is good reason to have little confidence in Liberal leader Stéphane Dion's ability to keep them united and determined. He pales in comparison to Harper, a vastly more able and talented politician. As Dion has proved yet again this week, he is simply unable to get his message across effectively. If the recent election campaign is any guide - and there is hardly any doubt the Conservatives will resurrect their campaign playbook, with attacks on the untrustworthy Dion in juxtaposition to the supposed model of stability that is Harper - Dion and the Liberals will be overwhelmed, dividing into rival camps ahead of the party's leadership convention next spring, and the coalition will fracture.

The governor general's decision may or may not have been cowardly, but it was certainly a poor one - one that disrespects parliamentary democracy, disregards the will of a majority of MPs, and puts government on hold at this time of economic and financial crisis. Either Jean should have dissolved Parliament and called an election, or she should have given the coalition the opportunity to govern. Instead, in granting Harper's request, she has given the Conservatives exactly what they want, including a decisive advantage in the campaign to come. Basically, she has saved Harper's sorry bacon, evidently putting his interests before the interests of the country.

It is a sad, sad day for Canada.


-----
2 threads back probably covered all conceivable discussion points. Hopefully all parties do a lot of good work before the new Parliament begins.

ZERO work has happened since September. Not to mention the time before that was preoccupied with meaningless elections preparations. There are not many professions where 5 months of time off with pay is allowed during a generational crunch time.

I'm sympathetic to that.

Gripped by "fear"? Hardly. 100% of the people I've talked to at my place of work are gripped by an almost overwhelming RAGE at what the GG did today. We're in the middle of the worst global economic crisis in two generations and in a desperate attempt to keep hold of power, Harper brought our government to a standstill for the next 7 - 13 weeks. 7 for sure, because as soon as Parliament opens, the non-confidence vote goes through. At that point we're right back to where we would have been on Monday. Either the GG then gives the coalition a shot, and then finally here comes economic aid, or we go into another 6 week election cycle.

How much damage will be done in those 13 weeks?

The only silver lining here is that Harper has done enormous damage to himself and the Conservatives this week with his desperate flopping about trying to salvage his government. The Conservatives WERE gaining a little tiny bit of support in Quebec, but after Harper's tirades painting any Quebecer as a traitor to Canada, that's gone. Calling getting in bed with the Bloc "A deal with the devil" looks pretty bad when Duceppe is quoting from Harper's 2004 correspondence with the Bloc when he tried to do exactly the same thing...

Dear Jesuslanders:

Please feel free to move to Canada. It's right next to Alaska, so you can feel close to Sarah Palin. They own more guns per capita than Jesuslanders do. They hunt moose. They don't have Obama as an incoming president. When Putin rears his head over the US, he'll come to Canada second.

No seriously, please leave.

Sincerely,
The people who DON'T live in Welfare States

FTA: ...paint a picture of a population gripped by fear that is largely giving the Conservatives the benefit of the doubt - for now - to lead the country in such uncertain political and economic times.



/approves
//remembers when it worked
///remembered when Canadians called US stupid for believing it.

Britney Spear's Speculum: TheOther: /fire extinguisher porn

No, THIS is fire extinguisher pr0n (TOTALLY NSFW)

Yeah, but what happens when she squeezes the handle?

Just in:

72% of Canadians are "gripped by fear" due to watching/reading--digesting ultra liberal media from every direction..they can't help it. It's the model Pelosi/Frank/Reid/ThatONE has already accomplished with ALL BUT talk radio in USA.

And they're aiming for that with their Fairness Doctrine aka Let's Kill the 1st Amendent coming to a USA near you.

P.S. The other 28% of Canadians have gotten their big ass guns already: shhhh

The level of hate being spread by Harper has unhinged me. Those who don't see what he has said as hate are probably more frieghtened than I am.

Royal Vodak: Just in:

72% of Canadians are "gripped by fear" due to watching/reading--digesting ultra liberal media from every direction..they can't help it. It's the model Pelosi/Frank/Reid/ThatONE has already accomplished with ALL BUT talk radio in USA.

And they're aiming for that with their Fairness Doctrine aka Let's Kill the 1st Amendent coming to a USA near you.

P.S. The other 28% of Canadians have gotten their big ass guns already: shhhh

I'm drunk and that statement doesn't make any sense. What does AM radio have to do wtih Canada?

Damn it. I'm just gripped by media coverage that I can't pull myself away from. Admittedly I didn't get swept up in the American primaries/election, which meant a lot more time for life. With these current Canadian politics I'm pretty sure my exam marks are going to take a mean hit.

Royal Vodak: And they're aiming for that with their Fairness Doctrine aka Let's Kill the 1st Amendent coming to a USA near you.

I thought there was massive liberal bias in the media, so something like the Fairness Doctrine would be a good thing for conservatives to have.

/cognitive dissonance

TheOther: Check it out, biatches.


/fire extinguisher porn

Britney Spear's Speculum: TheOther: /fire extinguisher porn

No, THIS is fire extinguisher pr0n (TOTALLY NSFW)

Nothing good can happen from that.

Like fark we are.

CanadianCommie: the problem is that people have taken the parliamentary system for granted because coalitions have barely any sort of precedent in Canadian political history. Most of our governments have been majorities, and when they aren't, the minorities normally fall too quickly to develop the coalition system.

You do get used to it, though. We introduced a proportional representation system in New Zealand in the 1990s. Every government since has either been a formal coalition or a minority government with confidence and supply support from another party. While the expression "herding cats" may be appropriate, every government in NZ has seen out its full term since proportional representation was introduced (in fact, there hasn't been a snap election since 1984).

I knew it! Dion is weaksuace and Canadians don't want Layton. The coalition needed to back down as soon as the campaign financing and the right to strike were no longer an issue. Now they have managed only to empower Harper.

They had him on his knees and now they have crowned him king.

Of course...Quebec might simply flex its power in the next election again, and f*ck over the West, and Harper will still have a minority. It doesn't matter what the majority of Westerners think, what matters are Ontario and Quebec. Ontario won't vote for Ray, Ignatieff or Dion, but Quebec would vote Bloc for sure I bet.

hyperspacemonkey: Ray

Oops I mean Rae.

Crosshair: Since when has having a gun, lots of ammo, and being proficient with it, ever been a bad thing?

When people start naming themselves after parts of a gun.

barc0001: Gripped by "fear"? Hardly. 100% of the people I've talked to at my place of work are gripped by an almost overwhelming RAGE at what the GG did today. We're in the middle of the worst global economic crisis in two generations and in a desperate attempt to keep hold of power, Harper brought our government to a standstill for the next 7 - 13 weeks. 7 for sure, because as soon as Parliament opens, the non-confidence vote goes through. At that point we're right back to where we would have been on Monday. Either the GG then gives the coalition a shot, and then finally here comes economic aid, or we go into another 6 week election cycle.

How much damage will be done in those 13 weeks?

The only silver lining here is that Harper has done enormous damage to himself and the Conservatives this week with his desperate flopping about trying to salvage his government. The Conservatives WERE gaining a little tiny bit of support in Quebec, but after Harper's tirades painting any Quebecer as a traitor to Canada, that's gone. Calling getting in bed with the Bloc "A deal with the devil" looks pretty bad when Duceppe is quoting from Harper's 2004 correspondence with the Bloc when he tried to do exactly the same thing...

The point is no one is right in that circumstance. YOU DON'T GIVE THE BQ THAT SORT OF INFLUENCE IN FEDERAL POLITICS. Who cares if Harper did it before, so did Mulroney and he is rightfully hated for giving up everything to win Quebec (and also for spawning Ben). Go to the polls, rhetoric and tradition mean nothing if the will of the people is to go to election. If this can not be, then ratify the coalition after 6 months via election. At least with proroguing Harper can step back, realize his ploy has cost him respect in his party and in Canada as well as the house and reach out to the other parties. A coalition should then seek to work with the Conservatives instead of the BQ whenever possible for the next 6 months, or go immediately into an election.

The Boohoo I dont want another election people can just not vote, if you cant spend a few hours a week to be informed and 10 bucks out of pocket to practice self-government then just sit back and let us take care of business and pay your taxes.

Ugh... to early to think about what an "ass-gun" would be.

All this talk about jumping in bed with separatists has made me yearn to try it. But I'll have to insist upon condoms - Harper's been there already.

Harper 2007 - "Ahh, Gilles, the way you helped me pass my budget. I felt it in my toes! You big, sexy Frenchie, you."

Harper 2008 - "You bastard! You never loved me! You never loved Canada! I'm going to tell my friends! You and that province you come from - you're going DOWN!"

/separatists must know some good positions
//besides, it's getting cold out

Crosshair: Since when has having a gun, lots of ammo, and being proficient with it, ever been a bad thing?


Friday, November 22, 1963?

barc0001: Gripped by "fear"? Hardly. 100% of the people I've talked to at my place of work are gripped by an almost overwhelming RAGE at what the GG did today. We're in the middle of the worst global economic crisis in two generations and in a desperate attempt to keep hold of power, Harper brought our government to a standstill for the next 7 - 13 weeks. 7 for sure, because as soon as Parliament opens, the non-confidence vote goes through. At that point we're right back to where we would have been on Monday. Either the GG then gives the coalition a shot, and then finally here comes economic aid, or we go into another 6 week election cycle.

How much damage will be done in those 13 weeks?

The only silver lining here is that Harper has done enormous damage to himself and the Conservatives this week with his desperate flopping about trying to salvage his government. The Conservatives WERE gaining a little tiny bit of support in Quebec, but after Harper's tirades painting any Quebecer as a traitor to Canada, that's gone. Calling getting in bed with the Bloc "A deal with the devil" looks pretty bad when Duceppe is quoting from Harper's 2004 correspondence with the Bloc when he tried to do exactly the same thing...

Selective memory. The Canadian electorate is honestly just as idiotic as the U.S. electorate and will believe the crap that Jim Bob conservative fundy says at work about evil "socialism" and the "coup taking over Government" that's "undemocratic".

Most people probably think that "coalition" isn't even a real word, let alone a possible political outcome in our parliamentary system.

/canuck
//saddened by recent polls showing a large percentage of Canadians acting like sheep.

RockofAges: The Canadian electorate is honestly just as idiotic as the U.S. electorate and will believe the crap that Jim Bob conservative fundy says at work about evil "socialism" and the "coup taking over Government" that's "undemocratic".

lol, just like evil "conservatives" and "proroguing is undemocratic." You guys on either side just keep us laughing, you have no real impact in politics in Canada.

Kenwhat: with the left's chicken-little fearmongering about the end of Canada as we know it unless the government is taken down and control is handed over to them.

On what planet do you live? Harper is the one fearmongering.

Hiro's Protagonist: A sad day for Canada
By agreeing to shut down parliament, the governor general saved the bacon of Stephen Harper's besieged Conservatives

Michael Stickings
guardian.co.uk,

Real Canadians haven't needed the approval from Britain since Vimy Ridge.

En tout cas, ou est la Martinique dans le Quebec?

Once again, put down the keyboards actually talk to your MP, and when the vote comes, put pencil to paper, because in the big scheme of things, our forefathers fought and died for our right to participate in the process, so the only ones who are spitting on their graves are the ones who don't cast an informed vote.

Gripped with fear? WFT are they talking about. I seriously don't think I could find one Canadian I could describe as "gripped with fear" with relation to the goings on in parliament.



/I bet I could find a few that are "unsurprised" that Ottawa found a way to take a longer Christmas holiday.

Elvis Da King: Hiro's Protagonist: A sad day for Canada
By agreeing to shut down parliament, the governor general saved the bacon of Stephen Harper's besieged Conservatives

Michael Stickings
guardian.co.uk,

Real Canadians haven't needed the approval from Britain since Vimy Ridge.

En tout cas, ou est la Martinique dans le Quebec?

Once again, put down the keyboards actually talk to your MP, and when the vote comes, put pencil to paper, because in the big scheme of things, our forefathers fought and died for our right to participate in the process, so the only ones who are spitting on their graves are the ones who don't cast an informed vote.

Nice in principle, but the MP who votes against the party line is crushed.

There is so much Harper misinformation in this thread. But I don't care enough to argue about it before coffee.

Suffice it to say - READ THE NEWS, PEOPLE. Credible news. Not Fark threads or talking points or the politics forum you go to. The Globe & Mail or La Presse or the CBC or possibly even your local Canwest collection of former tree fiber and ink. Skip the editorials. Read the factual facts-type news and the "WTF is going on?" info boxes. A few articles. From a variety of sources.

Anyway, I buy that 72% of Canadians are scared. That actually seems low. Those would be the people paying any attention whatsoever to politics. The other 28% are like, "What? Oh, I hate all those douchebags. Hockey's on" and are not bothered at the current time. Everyone else is profoundly fearful, and I think it's about a 50-50 split between those freaking out because they are scared to see Harper go and those freaking out because of Harper's actions and about seeing him continue in power after these last two weeks. Hell, I'm freaked out. I had to spend a concerted effort involving bubble bath and a 30 Rock marathon yesterday trying to gain perspective on:
- the proroguing of our House of Commons and what amounts to a monumental failure of democracy in Canada
- Stephen Harper's deliberate stirring up of western (BC excluded) alienation, pitted against Québec's elected representatives
- that the seats that Harper's going to lose in Québec will go to the Bloc next election, thus strengthening them
- that once again Québec could revert to a nationalist-federalist holding pattern instead of doing something potentially healthier for Québec's interests and position in government, like having multiple federalist options for voters. You know what's really awesome for Québec separatists? When English Canadians try to paint them as devils. Their poll numbers go up dramatically because every rational Québecer facepalms and has this instant reaction that people outside Québec are complete bone-heads and don't understand a damn thing about Québec or the Bloc (which, despite Harper's most misleading efforts, is not true.) And then the question becomes, will they ever? Is there even a point to trying to bridge the divide? Do the sovereigntists have a point? Add that to Mr. Duceppe's eloquence and charisma, and it's an instant jump in the polls that could paint sovereignty as a realistic option again. So, this a really terrible outcome in Québec.
- that there's a global financial crisis and our government totally dropped the ball on stimulus and are not planning long-term while many of the bases of our economy - forestry, manufacturing - are headed into collapse or are already there. But Harper doesn't give a rat's ass about anything other than oil and unlike every other G8 country, is going to impose budget cuts and tricky accounting to avoid a deficit. The idiocy and misplaced priorities are staggering.
- that pretty much the only people who can find solutions are a coalition of the Liberals and the NDP and the Liberals do not have their act together.
- that the Liberals might not fire Stéphane Dion immediately or in any case before Christmas - look, if there are ANY Liberal people reading this right now, please, talk to people, talk to people who work for other people, build a coalition and fire him immediately. Aim for before Dec. 10th. Go with McCallum. He has a doctorate in freaking economics. And unlike some of the other professors in the Liberal party, he has a ton of charisma. Or really, go with anyone. I swear to anything you pray to, your donations will go up 1000% in the first week. No more slow deaths.

And now I'm so amped up on anxiety and uncertainty that I might not even need coffee. Great.

I've got some room on my futon across the Detroit river for you all. Although I don't know what would be worse, Detroit or Canadian anarchy. Probably still Detroit.

Kenwhat: They're all fearmongering to a degree, but it isn't Quebec separation that Canadians are afraid of.

I never said that, nor is Harper. Many (inlcuding a few in this thread) are afraid that Quebec (via the bloc) will have too much power in the coalition.

It's political instability during a period of economic uncertainty, and the coalition is responsible for the lion's share of this.

One could argue that if Harper hadn't been a dick to begin with, we wouldn't be here. When you're in a minority govt, you don't piss off the opposition.

but he isn't the one claiming the survival of the country depends on Dion's ability to replace the PM when an overwhelming majority of Canadians don't like or trust him and don't believe he's competent enough to run the country.

Well Duuh. Of course Harper isn't saying "replace me with the other guy."

I think the elections also showed that a majority of Canadians don't trust Harper and don't believe he's competent enough to run the country.

Anybody see the demonstration FOR the coalition on Parliament Hill yesterday. People bussed in by 14 (or more) supporting unions. Clearly the unions are happy with the $30 Billion (so far) promised by the 3 amigos. How much money are they giving to the non-unionized automakers in Canada (Honda, Toyota)?

georgep68: the $30 Billion (so far) promised by the 3 amigos.

Link?

(Just curious, not questioning your statement)

bobbette: There is so much Harper misinformation in this thread. But I don't care enough to argue about it before coffee.

Suffice it to say - READ THE NEWS, PEOPLE. Credible news. Not Fark threads or talking points or the politics forum you go to. The Globe & Mail or La Presse or the CBC or possibly even your local Canwest collection of former tree fiber and ink. Skip the editorials. Read the factual facts-type news and the "WTF is going on?" info boxes. A few articles. From a variety of sources.

fibre!

why is proroguing undemocratic?

How depressing. Either the survey was full of leading questions or a huge majority of my fellow Canadians are idiots. There's been nothing that I've seen in the last few weeks of this debacle that's illegal of fatally harmful to the country. Frustrating and annoying, yes... but not enough to cause panic.

Now I hate Harper with every ounce of my being, but if he can calm himself down and govern with ALL Canadians in mind, I'd be fine with that. Unfortunately, in recent weeks he's really shown his true colours and decided to play political chicken instead of thinking of what's best for the nation. I guess he misjudged the opposition because they didn't blink.

In any case, I hope he just gets rid of Flaherty (that guy's really dangerous) and starts to think like he's got a minority gov't instead of some ridiculous sweeping mandate.

/And if the coalition does end up ousting him, I'm fine with that too, you should pay a price for playing brinksmanship during a critical period

Silovik: why is proroguing undemocratic?

Just a guess, because Harper shut the opposition up, instead of having them have their say.

Silovik: why is proroguing undemocratic?

It's not... nothing that has happened has been undemocratic. Neither the opposition parties trying to take power as a coalition, nor the Conservatives suspending parliament is undemocratic. Both are things that are allowed by our system of government. It's rhetoric both sides are using to stir people up, or it's people who don't understand the system of government making the comments.

miscreant: Silovik: why is proroguing undemocratic?

It's not... nothing that has happened has been undemocratic. Neither the opposition parties trying to take power as a coalition, nor the Conservatives suspending parliament is undemocratic. Both are things that are allowed by our system of government. It's rhetoric both sides are using to stir people up, or it's people who don't understand the system of government making the comments.

Thats the answer I was looking for. At least some people understand this.

Nobody's voice is being taken away from this. The vote will still occur when Parliament resumes.

The Governor-General has done a good thing. She's letting cooler heads prevail and allowing all parties involved to reassess their strengths.

If the coalition is strong enough, it will survive and get its vote. If it isn't, then I'm glad we're finding out now instead of after a non-confidence vote.

I'm not really concerned.

Kenwhat: Flab: On what planet do you live? Harper is the one fearmongering.

Earth. In the nation of Canada, the province of Ontario and the city of Toronto.

They're all fearmongering to a degree, but it isn't Quebec separation that Canadians are afraid of. It's political instability during a period of economic uncertainty, and the coalition is responsible for the lion's share of this.

Harper is no angel in it either, but he isn't the one claiming the survival of the country depends on Dion's ability to replace the PM when an overwhelming majority of Canadians don't like or trust him and don't believe he's competent enough to run the country.

The coalition has framed their argument in a manner that only leaves them with options they don't like. Either install Dion as PM, which is scary to them, or watch the country disintegrate, which is also scary to them. This is why they're afraid.

Just to put this in perspective:

The other three parties (NDP, Bloc and Liberals) get a VAST majority of their funding from the $1.99 per vote. I think it hovers around the 65% mark. The liberals also took out loans against this $1.99 per vote to pay for the last election.

Harper wanted to take this away. In other words, vote for this and slit your own throat or give me some major political capital to use against you later.

That is farked up. That is playing some very dirty, dirty politics at a moment when he should have been doing what is best for the country, not what was best for his party.

Not only that, but when this plan backfired and it looked like he was going to lose power to the coalition, he went and suspended parliament right before a vote of no confidence (which he instigated) ... something essentially unheard of in our history. It's like the schoolyard bully pulling the fire alarm because the three kids he was picking on suddenly all turned on him.

I was pretty ambivalent about Harper before this...I agreed with a fair amount of things he'd done. I wasn't upset that Harper had a minority goverment...it was supposed to mean he had to negotiate a bit with the other parties to get things done which to me is good for our democracy.

He's now thrown that all out the window. The man is not representative of Canadian values and cares about the Conservative party far above what is best for the country. God help us if he gets a majority.

He has cemented my vote for the Liberals/NDP and I'll be actively campaigning against him in the next election. I'll also be donating to the liberals and I suggest other Canadian farkers who are against Harper do the same (even if it's $10 or something along those lines...every little be helps).

Also, this 'gripped by fear' talk is funny. This is how the system works. Stevie McKitten Sweatervest tried to pull a fast one and the other parties fought back. This will get resolved and we can all go back to talking about the weather and drinking labatt 50.

Mercutio74: In any case, I hope he just gets rid of Flaherty (that guy's really dangerous) and starts to think like he's got a minority gov't instead of some ridiculous sweeping mandate.

My thoughts as well. Harper was being an idiot. Hopefully the GG gave him a good biatch slapping when they talked. If I was her, I would have said "I'll let you suspend parliament, but if your budget doesn't pass in January, then I'm giving the opposition coalition a chance, so you better make nice."

The Conservatives should get rid of Harper, he's too partisan, he doesn't just want to be in government, he wants to destroy the opposition parties so that the Conservatives can enjoy a long streak like the Liberals had will little real opposition... that was not good for the country, and neither would a Conservative version of it be.

Silovik: Elvis Da King: Hiro's Protagonist: A sad day for Canada
By agreeing to shut down parliament, the governor general saved the bacon of Stephen Harper's besieged Conservatives

Michael Stickings
guardian.co.uk,

Real Canadians haven't needed the approval from Britain since Vimy Ridge.

En tout cas, ou est la Martinique dans le Quebec?

Once again, put down the keyboards actually talk to your MP, and when the vote comes, put pencil to paper, because in the big scheme of things, our forefathers fought and died for our right to participate in the process, so the only ones who are spitting on their graves are the ones who don't cast an informed vote.

Nice in principle, but the MP who votes against the party line is crushed.

Time to make a choice. Be crushed by the party and sit as a back bencher, sit as an independent, or be voted out on a rail by your constituents next election.

If this last election teaches us anything, it is that not participating costs us all big time. The favorite figured being bandied about by the pro-alliance people is that they got 62% of the vote. lets leave out the fact that that is more like 62% voted against Harper. Only 60% of all Canadians voted. 62% of 60% is not a figure to be proud of, and certainly not enough to claim a clear majority of Canadians.

miscreant: If I was her, I would have said "I'll let you suspend parliament, but if your budget doesn't pass in January, then I'm giving the opposition coalition a chance, so you better make nice."

I'm sure that's one of the main reasons the visit to Rideau Hall lasted that long. Harper must have had some splainin' to do.

From todays Ottawa Citizen, reporting Ipsos/Reid poll.

46% of Canadians say they'd vote for Harper if an election were held today

56% would rather go to the polls again than let the coalition govern

72% said they are 'truly scared' for the future of Canada

and Yesterdays Strategic Council Poll



Congrats coallition. The CPC is more popular than ever and the Canadian people would rather have another election than let any of you near 24 Sussex. So much for a mandate from the people.