Even our Canadian news come from China now?

will never stop breaking the law, breaking the law

Not impressed.

Why are we getting Canadian news from the official press agency of the Chinese government? FAIL tag is for subby.

I guess the BQ were good separatists in 2004, when the CPC was prepared to ally with them. Now they've gotten worse.

How in the name of all that is good and pure and holy in Odin's beard did this trollerific headline get approved with a "neutral" PITA reading?

The PM is still visiting the GG at this moment. They've been in there nearly 40 minutes now, much longer then you would expect if she was just going to do what he wanted. Link to the real story:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/harper-jean.html

GG is also planning to meet with leaders of the coalition this afternoon, so he might not get an answer right away...

She needs to allow Parliament to function.

CokeBear: The PM is still visiting the GG at this moment. They've been in there nearly 40 minutes now, much longer then you would expect if she was just going to do what he wanted. Link to the real story:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/harper-jean.html

Not necessarily. She could agree with some conditions. Apparently there are a whole whack of conditions she could impose when granting his request.

what the hell is going on with Canada? is it the water?

stpickrell: I guess the BQ were good separatists in 2004, when the CPC was prepared to ally with them. Now they've gotten worse.

So, do you think it's a good idea to side with separatists or what?

Your point is kind of muddied here by the fact that the Liberals and NDP have actually agreed to essentially do whatever the Bloq says for 18 months. In the signed accord, the Bloq has last word on everything.

The Conservatives didn't actually get around to agreeing to something so stupid.

Also, last time I checked this agreement between the Liberals and the NDP forms a coalition between just those two parties. They say it's backed by the Bloq for whatever reason, but that doesn't matter. The coalition currently has 114 seated MPs.

How the GG can agree that a Coalition of 114 members counts more than the Conservative's 143 is beyond me.

Either the Bloq is part of the Coalition and they have the required numbers to show clear cause to force a change in governemnt, or the Bloq is not part of the Coalition and it becomes moot.

Which is it?

hamiltonjdavid: stpickrell: I guess the BQ were good separatists in 2004, when the CPC was prepared to ally with them. Now they've gotten worse.

So, do you think it's a good idea to side with separatists or what?

Your point is kind of muddied here by the fact that the Liberals and NDP have actually agreed to essentially do whatever the Bloq says for 18 months. In the signed accord, the Bloq has last word on everything.

The Conservatives didn't actually get around to agreeing to something so stupid.

I see you are buying the Conservative speaking points, hook, line and sinker. Keep in my the Dion wrote the clarity act which effectively eliminates the possibility of Quebec ever seperating. Both Referendums were fought against by Liberal Governemnts. Harper tried to form an alliance with the BQ and gave Quebec Nation status. He has done more to assist Quebec seperatists than anyone in history.

The BQ is not part of the coallition but will vote with them to get rid of Harper. Get your facts straight. If, at any point, the BQ can't vote with the NDP/Liberal coalltion, the GG will just disolve parliament and we can have a re-election or she can give Harper's replacement a kick at the can. I don't see what the big deal is here.

We should have had an election seven weeks ago, Harper claimed that Parliament was broken. Actually he thought he could get a majority but his fumbling regarding the economy put him into another minority.

So then his first major act is to be a dick and he has created an environment where his minority gov't cannot run parliament. No matter what they do they'll fall.

So, what do we do? Cancel parliament? In the middle of a growing crisis?

Hold another election? The results will be similar, if not worse of the CP as they've pissed off PQ and ONT, so what? Have an election every 7 weeks?

No, the GG won't dissolve parliament and the GG won't cancel parliament.

The coalition between the NDP and libs should be allowed to govern. The BQ are actually NOT PART OF THE COALITION, but have agreed to support it.

Harper has really let me down.

hamiltonjdavid: Also, last time I checked this agreement between the Liberals and the NDP forms a coalition between just those two parties. They say it's backed by the Bloq for whatever reason, but that doesn't matter. The coalition currently has 114 seated MPs.

How the GG can agree that a Coalition of 114 members counts more than the Conservative's 143 is beyond me.

Either the Bloq is part of the Coalition and they have the required numbers to show clear cause to force a change in governemnt, or the Bloq is not part of the Coalition and it becomes moot.

Which is it?

Semantics. You can say that the BQ is part of the coalition but they will not set the agenda nor will they hold cabinet positions. Dion and Layton will set the agenda and the BQ will vote to support them. BQ has agreed to be a background player. Duceppe is content with this (for the time being). If he ever pushes his luck the coalaltion will collapse and the GG will dissolve parliament and give Harper's replacement a kick at the can again or there will be another election. No big deal.

You can hate the BQ politics (which I do) but you cannot deny them the legal right to represent their constituents.

mrshowrules: The BQ is not part of the coallition but will vote with them to get rid of Harper. Get your facts straight. If, at any point, the BQ can't vote with the NDP/Liberal coalltion, the GG will just disolve parliament and we can have a re-election or she can give Harper's replacement a kick at the can. I don't see what the big deal is here.

Well, you know, I wouldn't really care about any of this if the Liberals had somebody that wasn't such a tool as leader of their party.

Everybody I know voted something besides Liberal just to avoid having Dion as PM. And here, the tool gets to play PM for a while. This is exactly the one main thing I was hoping to avoid by voting NDP.

And heck, if the whole separatist thing holds no water, explain Parizeau's take on the whole thing.

rob.d: We should have had an election seven weeks ago, Harper claimed that Parliament was broken. Actually he thought he could get a majority but his fumbling regarding the economy put him into another minority.

So then his first major act is to be a dick and he has created an environment where his minority gov't cannot run parliament. No matter what they do they'll fall.

So, what do we do? Cancel parliament? In the middle of a growing crisis?

Hold another election? The results will be similar, if not worse of the CP as they've pissed off PQ and ONT, so what? Have an election every 7 weeks?

No, the GG won't dissolve parliament and the GG won't cancel parliament.

The coalition between the NDP and libs should be allowed to govern. The BQ are actually NOT PART OF THE COALITION, but have agreed to support it.

Harper has really let me down.

Ditto. I voted for Dion (based on my environmental principals) but I was actually relieved that Harper won. He has since been acting like a major douche. Its like he forgot that he was a minority part and has been getting laid or something. I say give the coalition a shot at it as soon as possible. They will actually have a type of majority government and things will have to be decided on based on discourse and consensus. If the coalition collapses, give the Conservatives another kick at the can with a replacement for Harper. Also, Dion should have to resign immediately. A second coalition (if this happens) would likely be lead by the NDP but a re-election would probably happen before then.

CokeBear: The PM is still visiting the GG at this moment. They've been in there nearly 40 minutes now, much longer then you would expect if she was just going to do what he wanted. Link to the real story:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/harper-jean.html

She is playing with him:

"You want me to prorogue parliament, Steve? Dance. I said dance, monkey!"

I meant to say that he hasn't been getting laid.

mrshowrules:
You can hate the BQ politics (which I do) but you cannot deny them the legal right to represent their constituents.

It's called treason.

/I know, I know.

mrshowrules: Dion should have to resign immediately.

This.

Did you see his response to Harper's address last night? Sure, the speech had nice points to it, but a trained baboon would have had more charisma delivering it.

jebusfreak: Why are we getting Canadian news from the official press agency of the Chinese government? FAIL tag is for subby.

If it was new information I could understand it, but using "every legal measure" has been Harper's go-to line all week.

hamiltonjdavid: Also, last time I checked this agreement between the Liberals and the NDP forms a coalition between just those two parties. They say it's backed by the Bloq for whatever reason, but that doesn't matter. The coalition currently has 114 seated MPs.

How the GG can agree that a Coalition of 114 members counts more than the Conservative's 143 is beyond me.

Either the Bloq is part of the Coalition and they have the required numbers to show clear cause to force a change in governemnt, or the Bloq is not part of the Coalition and it becomes moot.

Which is it?

This is exactly what I was saying in the thread last night, and I still have no idea, despite people arguing with me all evening.

The Bloc has signed an agreement to support the coalition. The coalition leaders can show the Governor-General that they'll have the ability to credibly govern given the support of members of the three parties.

However, the Bloc is not participating in the government.

hamiltonjdavid: mrshowrules: Dion should have to resign immediately.

This.

Did you see his response to Harper's address last night? Sure, the speech had nice points to it, but a trained baboon would have had more charisma delivering it.

He speaks well in French. He should only let Layton handle the english addresses. He, should only speak in French. It will piss people off but at least he wouldn't look like an idiot. Dion is actually one of the smartest people in Parliament today but he is not a political creature. He should be an advisor to someone to the PM. His ability is to look at a problem and truly understand all aspects of it and solve it. When you give him several problems to work on at the same time, he can't do it. Plus, he can't speak English.

Well, it came out during the election that Dion has a hearing problem, which affects his speech.

nyihockey: This is exactly what I was saying in the thread last night, and I still have no idea, despite people arguing with me all evening.

The supporters of the whole coalition idea seem to believe this is irrelevant semantics. I don't think the GG can legally take things as casually as the pundits.

Or, maybe she can.

mrshowrules: He speaks well in French.

Yes, he speaks better in French, but he is hardly a charismatic speaker in his native language. The French language response from last night was equally pathetic, if not more so as the video quality sucked even more.

Also, having that weird not-quite-Parisian accent doesn't really help him connect with the Quebecois. He's a nerd in both languages, just a bigger one in English.

Looks like the meeting is over. Oh boy.

"Gov. Gen Michaelle Jean has approved Prime Minister Stephen Harper's request to suspend Parliament, agreeing to put the government on hold until the end of January, CTV News has learned."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/GG_deci sion_081204/ 20081204?hub=TopStories

hamiltonjdavid: mrshowrules: The BQ is not part of the coallition but will vote with them to get rid of Harper. Get your facts straight. If, at any point, the BQ can't vote with the NDP/Liberal coalltion, the GG will just disolve parliament and we can have a re-election or she can give Harper's replacement a kick at the can. I don't see what the big deal is here.

Well, you know, I wouldn't really care about any of this if the Liberals had somebody that wasn't such a tool as leader of their party.

Everybody I know voted something besides Liberal just to avoid having Dion as PM. And here, the tool gets to play PM for a while. This is exactly the one main thing I was hoping to avoid by voting NDP.

And heck, if the whole separatist thing holds no water, explain Parizeau's take on the whole thing.

Granted. Dion's a tool and Harper's a douche. However, the coalition might actually be able to get some work done. Dion, despite his jabbering, does have a firm understanding of socio-economic challenges. He is very very bright.

hamiltonjdavid: "Gov. Gen Michaelle Jean has approved Prime Minister Stephen Harper's request to suspend Parliament, agreeing to put the government on hold until the end of January, CTV News has learned."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/GG_deci sion_081204/ 20081204?hub=TopStories

Ugh.

That is worse than our Transition....

This just in. GG to prorogue Parliament.

coolbeans56: hamiltonjdavid: "Gov. Gen Michaelle Jean has approved Prime Minister Stephen Harper's request to suspend Parliament, agreeing to put the government on hold until the end of January, CTV News has learned."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081204/GG_deci sion_081204/ 20081204?hub=TopStories

Ugh.

That is worse than our Transition....

Beat me by 27 seconds.

Perhpas the Monarch of Canada needs to step in and take care of shiat.

mrshowrules: Harper tried to form an alliance with the BQ and gave Quebec Nation status. He has done more to assist Quebec seperatists than anyone in history.

The BQ is not part of the coallition but will vote with them to get rid of Harper. Get your facts straight. If, at any point, the BQ can't vote with the NDP/Liberal coalltion, the GG will just disolve parliament and we can have a re-election or she can give Harper's replacement a kick at the can. I don't see what the big deal is here.


Putain de merde, t'es un peu lent, eh? trop de FAIL.

1) nation status was a house motion, nice thought, but didnt mean anything.

2) Rene Levesque might have done a bit more than Harper for the separatist movement.

3) The bloc, your are right are not part of the coalition, but they will need to be paid for services rendered.

The coalition, is democratic and in practice can work, but Canada doesn't want this. The NDP/Liberals dont have enough support in all the provinces, and can't seriously stake a claim for government with that many seats less than the conservatives and being propped up by the bloc. It doesn't do Canada any good.

Just call a new election. It costs 10 dollars a person.

Not really a fail thread. He got it.

No confidance vote on Monday.

:(

A hypothetical question:
We had an election less than 2 months ago. What if we have an election again and get the a similar result - a Conservative minority? (Didn't we have that TWO elections in a row already?)

So what then? call another one until we have a majority government?

What I fail to see is why not give the coalition a chance? The legal framework is there. If the Liberals-NDP + BQ succeed, great. If not, the three parties involved will be in such a bad shape that the Conservative can pretty much guarantee majorities after majorities for at least the next decade.

Isn't that what Harper and the Conservatives want in the first place?

Silovik: mrshowrules: Harper tried to form an alliance with the BQ and gave Quebec Nation status. He has done more to assist Quebec seperatists than anyone in history.

The BQ is not part of the coallition but will vote with them to get rid of Harper. Get your facts straight. If, at any point, the BQ can't vote with the NDP/Liberal coalltion, the GG will just disolve parliament and we can have a re-election or she can give Harper's replacement a kick at the can. I don't see what the big deal is here.


Putain de merde, t'es un peu lent, eh? trop de FAIL.

1) nation status was a house motion, nice thought, but didnt mean anything.

2) Rene Levesque might have done a bit more than Harper for the separatist movement.

3) The bloc, your are right are not part of the coalition, but they will need to be paid for services rendered.

The coalition, is democratic and in practice can work, but Canada doesn't want this. The NDP/Liberals dont have enough support in all the provinces, and can't seriously stake a claim for government with that many seats less than the conservatives and being propped up by the bloc. It doesn't do Canada any good.

Just call a new election. It costs 10 dollars a person.

1) it was Harper's own motion. There is a web-site called google that you might find helpful

2) Rene Levesques accomplished next to nothing in this area. Federally speaking, Dion and the Liberals have done much more than Harper to fight Quebec seperation

3) Well Harper paid them very well before (see 2 points above), so what is your point

I sort of agree with the re-election. Let Dion and Harper resign (seeing as they can't play together) and lets have another election.

The "Coalition" is either composed of all 3 opposition parties and has greater representation in the house (than the current sitting government) or it consists of only 2 parties and it doesn't have the numbers. (as previous in this thread) I think this was a half baked idea on how to "put one over" on Harper. I really wonder what the coalition's best case scenario (long term) is? Assuming they manage to get in... Do they think that by pissing off that many people they can win the next election? Would they merge (the Libs and NDP)?
With the break until the end of January I'm guessing that the Coalition won't even make it until then and it'll be minority government take 2.

Son of Thunder

How in the name of all that is good and pure and holy in Odin's beard did this trollerific headline get approved with a "neutral" PITA reading?

I'm not Canadian. And none of the subjects are card-carrying fascists or commies. Except for maybe Harper, I think he might be a Nazi.

i believe this to be an affront to the spirit of our democracy. not only has the intent of the GG's office been, how shall i say, affronted, the very idea of our parliamentary system has been rebuked. the rights our mothers and fathers and uncles ands sons died for have been forsakened for the political gains of the man entrusted to uphold those very rights.

this state has only one lawful outcome under ANY democratic society. Prime Minister Harper must step down and any viable alternative must then be considered before disbanding government for new elections.

the possible fact that the GG did NOT ask the opposition IF they wanted to form a coalition in the previous sitting being no reason to set ANY kind of precedent. Derilliction of duty beeing the worst setter of precedent.

we'll probably need a new law about this if this works out at all.

if the Prime Minister is allowed to table anything before facing a confidence vote then, we as a nation have legalized the infantile behaviors that we don't allow in our three year olds

peace Canada

200 favrueau vigil for parliamentary democracy. anytime now would be nice.