I honestly don't think it matters. So much of high school academics is unnecessary bullshiat in most places. If you copy enough homework assignments that you have no clue what the answers to the questions actually are, you'll bomb the tests and the final. You only screw yourself over.

And even most of the test in most of the subject, taken individually, don't matter at all. How many of you remember the material from your third test in Social Studies in sophomore year? Yeah, I thought so.

High school generally doesn't teach you much in terms of long-term. Hell, I didn't cheat, but the second most of my tests were over, the stuff I studied evaporated from my brain. I did well enough to succeed on the test. That's all that mattered.

I don't see the high school administrators doing much substantial on this. If they did clamp down as hard as they could, they'd see grades falling. Then they'd see their college admissions percentage falling. And probably the "total scholarships achieved" falling as well. Then suddenly the school isn't quite the draw it was for incoming freshmen.

Good thing we're encouraging all these bright academics to go to college

/Yay for lowering the bar, increasing the prices

Barakku: Good thing we're encouraging all these bright academics to go to college

/Yay for lowering the bar, increasing the prices

Education is a business. Why would you turn down customers?

Temescal: Barakku: Good thing we're encouraging all these bright academics to go to college

/Yay for lowering the bar, increasing the prices

Education is a business. Why would you turn down customers?

Yea. That's about right. Most times, colleges will take somebody who has the potential to succeed in their program, putting butts in the seats and making money for university.

And the other one percent?

Kevin5280: And the other one percent?

Who the hell do you think we used to cheat?

Kevin5280: And the other one percent?

Did you sneak a calculator in here?

The Onanist: Kevin5280: And the other one percent?

Who the hell do you think we used to cheat?

the photoshopped coke bottle?

/btw, I found out they'll get suspicious if you photoshop a map of your country and all the names of the capitals on your coke bottle. Who knew?

i only cheated a couple of times in hs. once half the class had a copy of the exam beforehand so we worked out the answers... and another time in chemistry we passed each other answers during the exam.

are you kidding? America's middle name is 'cheat'. just look at our wall$treet crooks. this country would collapse if it weren't for cheating.

RodneyToady: And even most of the test in most of the subject, taken individually, don't matter at all.

Apparently you are part of the 64%. =)

/Not going grammAr nazi yet. Lotta rum to go through before I get there.

Hey, I posted: "[Main] Poll determines 36% of high school students lied about cheating on a test in the past year"

--- and got redlit faster than a gazelle. Bastard.

I never cheated on a test in high school. Not even once.

I did, however, shoplift, break curfew, and have underage sex.

All my cheating involved giving the cute girls in class the answers

Cheating is the American way. If you can do something with less effort and better results, why should the method matter?

/I kid
//kinda

Linux_Yes: are you kidding? America's middle name is 'cheat'. just look at our wall$treet crooks. this country would collapse if it weren't for cheating.

Um... I'm pretty sure it's gonna collapse because of cheating.

My girlfriend had taken physics the year before me and kept all of her tests. The ROTC head was the teacher and too lazy to change the tests. Three minutes before the test, I would memorize the answers and voila! Imagine my surprise when, after smoking a big, fat joint, I got called up on awards day to claim the physics award.

The guy who was valedictorian hard a hard time getting over that one.

It's all good, though, since I made an A in General Physics in college all by my lonesome.

The final 1 percent simply refused to answer the question.
/yay pleading the fifth
//yay for slashies

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

I am proud to say that I have never cheated. The ONE time I was tempted to cheat, I was in high school, I wrote down some constants I didn't have time to memorize in light pencil on my calculator's cover. I was desperate because I thought I was going to fail. When I sat down to take the test though, I remembered the constants without having to see them on my calculator. Turns out writing them down once was enough studying for me to remember them. I didn't do great, I didn't fail either, and after that I was never again tempted.

I have zero respect for cheaters (really more in college than HS, which is kinda small potatoes). If a student has to work for a 60%, then you don't deserve to breeze by with a 93%. Period.

The good thing is that in science- you can't get away with cheating for very long. Someone will catch you, though you might end up killing someone in the process.

\rant

I was always surrounded by people cheating. Always pissed me off. Even in college. Went to a theoretically "most selective school" with the "most diligent students" but they were all kind of stupid and only diligent about passing out cheatsheets.

I always figured, if you were dumb enough that you had to study, and lazy enough that you had to cheat, you wouldn't make it into a place like that. Oh well.

/If I'd been caught for having not turned them in for cheating, I would have been expelled. Glad I was never caught.

Gharlans: I was always surrounded by people cheating. Always pissed me off. Even in college. Went to a theoretically "most selective school" with the "most diligent students" but they were all kind of stupid and only diligent about passing out cheatsheets.

I always figured, if you were dumb enough that you had to study, and lazy enough that you had to cheat, you wouldn't make it into a place like that. Oh well.

/If I'd been caught for having not turned them in for cheating, I would have been expelled. Glad I was never caught.


Sounds exactly like my experiences right now at Stanford. Though generally, unless I feel extremely scared of the curve, I stand to lose nothing by them cheating so oh well, not my business.

I never cheated on a test. I was more of a 'can I copy your homework' sort of kid.

If I ws a teacher, I'd have the easiest A+ in school, and everyone taking the class would remember 90% or more of what I taught, 20+ years later.

1) The first day of class, spend an hour drilling one fact. ONE. One fact, be it a name, date, definition, etc. Spend the whole hour basically repeating it, possibly to the point of excruciating pain.

2) The next day, give a one-question quiz. Chances are, nobody will fail it. Then spend the rest of the day drilling a second single, solitary fact. Over & over & over.

3) The following day, give a 2-question quiz. Drill, drill, drill a third fact.

4) After 100 days, there will be 100 facts memorized, without anyone having had to study even once. No homework. No B.S. Methodical, rote memorization based on repeated drilling & testing.

5) This crap will be so burned on the student's brains that they'll probably still remember it for the rest of their lives. Sweet...

outback_rebel: All my cheating involved giving the cute girls in class the answers

Did any of them give you a handjob?

35% of students don't cheat?

Where is America's future Wall Street MBAs gonna come from?

Parallax: If I ws a teacher, I'd have the easiest A+ in school, and everyone taking the class would remember 90% or more of what I taught, 20+ years later.

1) The first day of class, spend an hour drilling one fact. ONE. One fact, be it a name, date, definition, etc. Spend the whole hour basically repeating it, possibly to the point of excruciating pain.

2) The next day, give a one-question quiz. Chances are, nobody will fail it. Then spend the rest of the day drilling a second single, solitary fact. Over & over & over.

3) The following day, give a 2-question quiz. Drill, drill, drill a third fact.

4) After 100 days, there will be 100 facts memorized, without anyone having had to study even once. No homework. No B.S. Methodical, rote memorization based on repeated drilling & testing.

5) This crap will be so burned on the student's brains that they'll probably still remember it for the rest of their lives. Sweet...

That's an awesome idea!

Where's the part where you get them to memorize critical thinking?

(crickets)

Not saying that that is actually what is going on in today's schools, I'm definately not that stupid. But bright ideas like this one are why US schools/students are in such deep shiat.

God this thread is so full of shiat I think it may beat the huge penis threads.

copperheadclgp: Parallax: If I ws a teacher, I'd have the easiest A+ in school, and everyone taking the class would remember 90% or more of what I taught, 20+ years later.

1) The first day of class, spend an hour drilling one fact. ONE. One fact, be it a name, date, definition, etc. Spend the whole hour basically repeating it, possibly to the point of excruciating pain.

2) The next day, give a one-question quiz. Chances are, nobody will fail it. Then spend the rest of the day drilling a second single, solitary fact. Over & over & over.

3) The following day, give a 2-question quiz. Drill, drill, drill a third fact.

4) After 100 days, there will be 100 facts memorized, without anyone having had to study even once. No homework. No B.S. Methodical, rote memorization based on repeated drilling & testing.

5) This crap will be so burned on the student's brains that they'll probably still remember it for the rest of their lives. Sweet...

That's an awesome idea!

Where's the part where you get them to memorize critical thinking?

(crickets)

Not saying that that is actually what is going on in today's schools, I'm definately not that stupid. But bright ideas like this one are why US schools/students are in such deep shiat.

Still, for subjects that require rote memorization (basic math, foreign languages, etc.), it's pretty genius.

Parallax: If I ws a teacher, I'd have the easiest A+ in school, and everyone taking the class would remember 90% or more of what I taught, 20+ years later...

What was the middle part, again?

heklim: Apparently you are part of the 64%. =)

Yeah, I screwed that one up :-)

Fark is my "break" today... I'm finishing up a project for a PhD class in statistics due tomorrow. Better I mess up a verb tense here than misspell "Bonferroni" there.

And no, I'm not cheating on it!

/it's my own collected data...I couldn't cheat if I wanted to

They always told me that the cheaters were only hurting themselves, if they cheated now it would come back to bite them later...and on and on.

Turns out that advice was about as wise as "you should never fight back when bullies pick on you". If I had studied for a test, but came across a problem I just could not figure out, I have two options: 1. Get it wrong, or 2. Look at the person next to me, and have a chance at getting it right. After the test I wouldn't remember the stuff either way - gotta start studying for the next test, and obscure definitions don't really matter in the long run.

So it is either:
A. Study, don't cheat, end up with a 3.1 GPA.
B. Study just as hard, maybe cheat if needed and if possible, end up with a 3.4 GPA.

The only difference is the GPA. I really am the same person, except in one I "feel better about myself". But that amounts to jack shiat when it might be the difference between a job and not. Just because I looked at some kid's answer doesn't mean I'm going to murder or steal money. I will still be a hardworking employee, try to live a moral life, etc.

I even draw personal distinctions between different types of cheating...finding out if ONE problem is A or C - OK. Plagiarizing a whole paper - NOT OK.

I can understand how some people would value the ability to say "I never cheated" over the grade, but if I am stuck on a problem worth 30% of my final exam in a class, I personally see more lost by NOT cheating.

I know I'm rambling here and a lot of this is where we each personally draw the line, but it seems to me that some types of cheating fall into the "I drive 5 MPH over the speed limit" category, something I also don't lose any sleep over.

jdamaral: Hey, I posted: "[Main] Poll determines 36% of high school students lied about cheating on a test in the past year"

--- and got redlit faster than a gazelle. Bastard.

Too bad, yours was every bit as retarded as the headline that actually got Greenlit. Why doesn't it surprise me that Farkers can't even conceive of the idea that some people are honest?

I had about 4 people thank me at the end of semester for being the only reason they passed a class.

Yeah, I was the kid who got As and made sure that my test was visible.

Once in an AutoCAD test in college we ran of room in the main lab, so the only two people in the second room were me and a girl I was dating. I gave her a LOT of help on that one.

RodneyToady: heklim: Apparently you are part of the 64%. =)

Yeah, I screwed that one up :-)

Fark is my "break" today... I'm finishing up a project for a PhD class in statistics due tomorrow. Better I mess up a verb tense here than misspell "Bonferroni" there.

And no, I'm not cheating on it!

/it's my own collected data...I couldn't cheat if I wanted to

Don't you have to be at the gym library in 26 minutes?

My favorite cheating story came from my math professor this semester. He said one time someone obviously went to the back of the textbook for the answers on a simple 3-point homework assignment. Not only did they not show any work, but for an open-ended question, they wrote "answers may vary." Like fish in a barrell some yung lurners.

The only test I ever cheated on was in the 5th grade, where we had to learn all the states, their locations, their capitals, and the state nicknames. I just got confused with a lot of the state nicknames once we got to the western states with sh*t like New Mexico being the "Land of Enchantment" and bullsh*t like that instead of "the *insert nickname* state" like all the eastern states.

I never cheated on another test and I kinda feel bad for cheating on that test. But that sh*t was friggin' hard.

Hell, I don't study for most tests, either

Sounds like someone was able to reech dees keeds.


/Hot, hot, hotlinked!

Ashtrey
Yeah, I was the kid who got As and made sure that my test was visible.

Me too, and it served me well when I started failing math in 10th grade, everyone was more than willing to let me look off their tests. It's not cheating, it's teamwork. Can I put that on a resume?

IAmRight: I never cheated on another test and I kinda feel bad for cheating on that test. But that sh*t was friggin' hard.

It was also pointless. Not the names, capitals, and locations. Those actually have a legitimate purpose. Americans *should* know where the other states are. But why know what their nicknames are? There's nothing useful in knowing that NY is "The Empire State." You basically cheated on a trivia test.

In my mom's elementary school days, the kids had to know the major product of each state. That's much harder, but has some value at least.

RodneyToady: In my mom's elementary school days, the kids had to know the major product of each state. That's much harder, but has some value at least.

Well, many states have something important to that state in their nickname. It was a good teacher, though, we also had "newspaper tests" where we'd get the paper's front page and he'd come up with 10 questions from the front page news and we'd have to find the answers.

shiat tier: Whispering to your friend sitting next to you
Low tier: Cheat sheet
Mid tier: Putting the answers in a programmable calculator
High tier: Writing the things on the desk and just wiping away afterwards
GOD TIER: Spending too much goddamned time studying to remember something that A) you will have no need to remember, or B) something you need to remember for the final.

Wait...

No wonder America is in such bad shape. I never once cheated on any test. I can't believe the numbers are that high. Hell for years, it was the same damn material over and over, you just had to pay attention in class one year, and you were good until specialized classes in high school.

In college, most professors I had were wise. They let you use books for tests. Their goal was teaching you the process and what you needed to know, though, not trying to force you to memorize crap, like a lot of highschool was.

I guess that's the good part about Math and concrete sciences, you can derive what you need with knowledge and process, memorizing won't help.

My parents assumed I cheated on the ACTs because I got a good score in the math section. In fact, I'm just really lucky at guessing.

I never believe half the crap teachers say about how they've caught students cheating. It sounds like they made up all the possible ways someone could cheat, however irrational, and threw them out there just to deter that one person who's going to make a secret winking code with their less intelligent friend across the room.

Kevin5280: And the other one percent?

Have become Statisticians.

Gameshot911: They always told me that the cheaters were only hurting themselves, if they cheated now it would come back to bite them later...and on and on.

Turns out that advice was about as wise as "you should never fight back when bullies pick on you". If I had studied for a test, but came across a problem I just could not figure out, I have two options: 1. Get it wrong, or 2. Look at the person next to me, and have a chance at getting it right. After the test I wouldn't remember the stuff either way - gotta start studying for the next test, and obscure definitions don't really matter in the long run.

So it is either:
A. Study, don't cheat, end up with a 3.1 GPA.
B. Study just as hard, maybe cheat if needed and if possible, end up with a 3.4 GPA.

The only difference is the GPA. I really am the same person, except in one I "feel better about myself". But that amounts to jack shiat when it might be the difference between a job and not. Just because I looked at some kid's answer doesn't mean I'm going to murder or steal money. I will still be a hardworking employee, try to live a moral life, etc.

I even draw personal distinctions between different types of cheating...finding out if ONE problem is A or C - OK. Plagiarizing a whole paper - NOT OK.

I can understand how some people would value the ability to say "I never cheated" over the grade, but if I am stuck on a problem worth 30% of my final exam in a class, I personally see more lost by NOT cheating.

I know I'm rambling here and a lot of this is where we each personally draw the line, but it seems to me that some types of cheating fall into the "I drive 5 MPH over the speed limit" category, something I also don't lose any sleep over.

This is why we can't have nice things. I bet your awesome 3.4 GPA is in all boom-boom classes, too.

FTFA: "We have to create situations where it's easy for kids to do the right things," he added. "We need to create classrooms where learning takes on more importance than having the right answer."

Mr. Riddle, this is a load of horseshiat!

Sometimes doing the right thing isn't easy. Doing it anyway is called integrity. Kids need to learn that.

What's the point in learning something in school if you're not trying to get at the right answer? Even in topics where there is no definitive "right" answer, we should be teaching children they should still be striving for it.

The nonsense that Riddle is spouting in his statement is actually at the heart at what's wrong with school-aged kids these days, especially in areas covered by TFA. If you don't set high enough standards for the kids, then you're breeding mediocrity and contempt. We should be encouraging academic integrity and achievement, not watering down the academic environment to for the sole purpose of allowing everyone to feel better about themselves.

What scares me about the apathetic attitude of today's students (and the school systems and parents who are fostering this apathy) is that they will eventually be passed through enough academic checkpoints that they will go out and become the bosses, lawyers, and politicians. At what point during their ascendancy to these positions is the integrity switch supposed to pop on?

If you're smart enough to cheat and get away with it, good on you. You deserve whatever grade you get if you can beat the system. I'm just about to write an important standardized test, and if I could cheat, I would. But I can't figure out a way, so I'm studying my ass off -- a whole new kind of cheating.

Fark Me To Tears: We should be encouraging academic integrity and achievement

That's what he's advocating. You're just reading it the way you are so that you can be angry about how "these damn kids these days" are always wrong.

What the hell I must have been the only person who didn't cheat in high school or college

/probably why I dropped out of college