This comment worked better in the thread that did not get greenlit, but still applies:

Wow, so Zimbabwe has simply been a practice round for how the big players are going to do it then? Nice.

And your share of what $8.5 trillion of your tax dollars are being spent for will be...jack shiat

If my calculations are right, every American alive today will have to pay 20,000 dollars to fix the economy. I'm glad I'm not an American.

Can one of you "math nerds" break down what that will cost each taxpayer in the United States?

/Some very well packed golden parachutes here

Can anyone here tell me why this is worse than a massive crash and a depression? Or are all the Fark libertarians going to come stand on principle and screw the reality.

DamnYankees: Can anyone here tell me why this is worse than a massive crash and a depression? Or are all the Fark libertarians going to come stand on principle and screw the reality.

I think that the question here is....Will it work or are we just going to be putting ourselves in even deeper? A natural distrust from a cautious population that has been consistently lied to over the last eight years. Are the lawgivers looking to solve this mess or are they just feathering the nest for themselves and their friends.

"$8,500,000,000,000 or $8.5 x 10¹² for you math nerds"

We nerds prefer to call it the $ 7B,B0F,7B0,800 bailout.

jake_lex: And your share of what $8.5 trillion of your tax dollars are being spent for will be...jack shiat

That's untrue - we get to pay off the debt! lucky, lucky us....we get all the debt....

Dividing that by the 2007 est population [Google's Weeners] of 301,139,947 gives us an amount of $28,226.08. Fark trusting big business with that. Let's call it an economic incentive program and deliver it to the citizens for a trickle up effect. Say up to half has to be spent on existing debt. Sorry kids, if mommy and daddy still owe money they're taking some of yours. Rules on lending would be changed to avoid this situation redeveloping.

For adults the rest must be spent on American made goods. Handle like a debit card with only certain businesses allowed to participate to focus benefiting the US economy. For kids it is held until they are 18 and then they get the debit card.

How do we pay? Well first we mortgage some of the public lands being held in trust. We can avoid those of the most important ecological value. Secondly the government will have to cut loose some of the advanced alien technology they are currently hoarding. Whatever could become the next "microwave," "cellphone" or whatever. That should work.

/started drinking early for NFL Sunday

How much have we spent on the war so far?

/flame on

lajimi: Will it work or are we just going to be putting ourselves in even deeper? A natural distrust from a cautious population that has been consistently lied to over the last eight years. Are the lawgivers looking to solve this mess or are they just feathering the nest for themselves and their friends.

I would totally agree - if this was actually going to be administered by the Bush administration.

I'd do 17 MILLION chicks at one time.

=================================================

I just can't imagine that much money.

For just a fraction of that amount we could have a nationwide high speed rail network--even more elaborate than the interstate system. We could have fusion energy powering every home and car. We could have cities on Mars... Gah, the list is endless!

Y'know, here's another thought to keep you awake at night:

If we do this, if we keep going on this way and not fixing our problems, propping up a failing economy and whatnot....it's a perfect opportunity for our enemies to exploit our glaring weaknessess.

Rather than attacking the US and seeing american forces in the field, you start hitting economic targets instead. a couple factories, some banks....maybe start kidnapping businessmen (and leave the rank and file alone). disable computer systems. I'm sure a foreign country could come up with all sorts of ways to disrupt our fragile economic system. Maybe figure out a way to do some insider trading and give that information to shady US stockbrokers....then let the world find out about it, further undermining confidence in US markets. Or just fark with currency markets. so many ways to screw with us, it's not funny.

And there is NOTHING we could do about it. If this goes on, we won't be able to fund any wars anywhere because we won't have enough money to make it happen.

DamnYankees: Can anyone here tell me why this is worse than a massive crash and a depression? Or are all the Fark libertarians going to come stand on principle and screw the reality.

Because it won't work, so we'll still have the crash and depression, and lots of debt to pay off keeping us down for a few extra years.

lajimi: Can one of you "math nerds" break down what that will cost each taxpayer in the United States?

There are about 137 million taxpayers in the country.

So, thats roughly $62,000 per taxpayer.

Which... is greater than what the average taxpayer makes in a year. So, I hope you enjoy working for more than a year just to pay for this government's bailout package. That is, if you still have a job.

I've heard numbers as high as 1 Quadrillion. I strongly doubt their accuracy, but the models they're based on are sound. They account for things like monetary mechanics.

YixilTesiphon: Because it won't work, so we'll still have the crash and depression, and lots of debt to pay off keeping us down for a few extra years.

Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

DandamanFL: Dividing that by the 2007 est population [Google's Weeners] of 301,139,947 gives us an amount of $28,226.08. Fark trusting big business with that. Let's call it an economic incentive program and deliver it to the citizens for a trickle up effect. Say up to half has to be spent on existing debt. Sorry kids, if mommy and daddy still owe money they're taking some of yours. Rules on lending would be changed to avoid this situation redeveloping.

If everyone in the US were given $28000, then most of it is first going to be deposited in the banks.
The banks would suddenly get $8.5 trillion...how much of that would be left in the banks, I don't know.

My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

Weaver95: And there is NOTHING we could do about it. If this goes on, we won't be able to fund any wars anywhere because we won't have enough money to make it happen.

It's already been demonstrated that nobody can afford to go to war-- and that nobody can afford anyone else going to war. That's a good thing.

Looks like you missed out on the economic corollary, too.

Weaver95: Y'know, here's another thought to keep you awake at night:

If we do this, if we keep going on this way and not fixing our problems, propping up a failing economy and whatnot....it's a perfect opportunity for our enemies to exploit our glaring weaknessess.

Rather than attacking the US and seeing american forces in the field, you start hitting economic targets instead. a couple factories, some banks....maybe start kidnapping businessmen (and leave the rank and file alone). disable computer systems. I'm sure a foreign country could come up with all sorts of ways to disrupt our fragile economic system. Maybe figure out a way to do some insider trading and give that information to shady US stockbrokers....then let the world find out about it, further undermining confidence in US markets. Or just fark with currency markets. so many ways to screw with us, it's not funny.

And there is NOTHING we could do about it. If this goes on, we won't be able to fund any wars anywhere because we won't have enough money to make it happen.

That's why I say let the system collapse. It's already put me out of the job - let's start this depression now so we can get it the hell out of the way and move on. It's already guaranteed to have destroyed the remaining years of my youth, so now that I'm a bitter old man, I say "Let 'em Crash!"

Scientific Notation FTW!

DamnYankees: Can anyone here tell me why this is worse than a massive crash and a depression? Or are all the Fark libertarians going to come stand on principle and screw the reality.

Because the most likely outcome of this insanity is owing 8.5+ trillion in debt AND a massive crash followed by a Depression. But the ruling class will be doing juuuuuust fine, so if that's a worry for you, cross it off your list.

Pfft.. Good luck collecting that from me, suckers!

/runs

DamnYankees: YixilTesiphon: Because it won't work, so we'll still have the crash and depression, and lots of debt to pay off keeping us down for a few extra years.

Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

Actually, most economists have been muttering something about faust and digging bunker complexes in their backyards right now.

So, our initial fix projection of 800 billion was only off by one order of magnitude?

Meh, I guess that's not completely atypical in the way of big project cost overruns....

Weaver95: If we do this, if we keep going on this way and not fixing our problems, propping up a failing economy and whatnot....it's a perfect opportunity for our enemies to exploit our glaring weaknessess.

Except for theyre own economies would in turn collapse.

Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

boned for having so much in such a risky place so close to retirement?

Solution:

Sell Florida to the highest bidder

flyf15: lajimi: Can one of you "math nerds" break down what that will cost each taxpayer in the United States?

There are about 137 million taxpayers in the country.

So, thats roughly $62,000 per taxpayer.

Which... is greater than what the average taxpayer makes in a year. So, I hope you enjoy working for more than a year just to pay for this government's bailout package. That is, if you still have a job.

Here is a scary thought: There is only 800 billion USD in circulation right now. If we inject another 700 billion into the system, doesn't that effectively half the value of the dollar?

Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

A big grin from big businessmen and the GOP. Who needs pensions when you can gamble with a 401K?

\social security privatization too! blah blah blah

Fisrt Post: If my calculations are right, every American alive today will have to pay 20,000 dollars to fix the economy. I'm glad I'm not an American.

Sounds like about what I'm paying this year. It'll only get worse now that a Democrat is in office.

Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

A strong "I-told-you-so" from everyone who suggested they diversify.

That surplus Clinton left us with before Bush took office is looking pretty good right now isn't it?

If you buy something eventually you have to pay for it. Why has this been so hard for the Bush administration to understand?

Obama has a lot of work ahead of him but at least he has some people on his side who dealt with this the first time around with the Clinton administration.

Say what you will about President Clinton but he did balance the budget. It wasn't pretty however and it's going to be even uglier this time.

oneodd1: Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

boned for having so much in such a risky place so close to retirement?

Yeah, well, having your 401 in mutual funds is a pretty uncommon thing i guess, especially when trying to catch up from being on a military income for 25 years.

"boned for having so much in such a risky place so close to retirement?"

That's the rub....they weren't historically "risky", they were probably in safe investments.

Everybody got the screwing, and the Bank CEO's will probably keep their jobs and get golden parachutes (See Car CEO's traveling to DC on separate Corporate jets).

That's convenient, I want a rock.

DamnYankees: Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

Where are you finding these economists, Fox News? Most every economist in this country is saying that it might work, but most likely all the bailouts are doing is giving wealthy people a few extra million while slightly delaying the inevitable.

Obdicut: Weaver95: And there is NOTHING we could do about it. If this goes on, we won't be able to fund any wars anywhere because we won't have enough money to make it happen.

It's already been demonstrated that nobody can afford to go to war-- and that nobody can afford anyone else going to war. That's a good thing.

Looks like you missed out on the economic corollary, too.

All wars are about resources. And if someone decided to screw with the US, we just made it a LOT easier for them. with weak economy, we're going to become even MORE dependant on overseas resources and LESS able to defend those resources. Not a good position to be in either, in case you missed that.

Add in a demoralized population that is starting to believe that their leaders are corrupt and their bankers have been lying to them all these years....well, it's not good. How do you restore confidence in the markeplace? short of sending a LOT of investment bankers to jail for a long, long time I don't see how it's possible. I can think of no better way to destroy investor confidence than to allow someone to run a major fortune 500 company into the ground, then let them take a golden parachute and bail out of it with a net gain while investors get screwed.

All this adds up. And our enemies aren't all stupid either. they're watching us fark up and looking for ways to make it worse.

DamnYankees: Can anyone here tell me why this is worse than a massive crash and a depression? Or are all the Fark libertarians going to come stand on principle and screw the reality.

It isn't - they've got nothing but principle to stand on.

To them, that's enough. These aren't pragmatical people. They're ideologues. They are the polar opposite of communists, but they both have the same idea - they're unwilling to admit that their cherished beliefs may be wrong, they instead argue that no one has properly implemented them. It's a circular argument.

Winktologist: Here is a scary thought: There is only 800 billion USD in circulation right now. If we inject another 700 billion into the system, doesn't that effectively half the value of the dollar?

Worse than that...when the dollar tanks, all those countries holding dollars will start dumping them. So it will be closer to quartering it.

Oh shiat you went all Avogadros on my ass.

Nightjars: That's convenient, I want a rock.

I think we should all grab a rock.

Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

Social security and medicare.

FrellingFrak: DamnYankees: Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

Where are you finding these economists, Fox News? Most every economist in this country is saying that it might work, but most likely all the bailouts are doing is giving wealthy people a few extra million while slightly delaying the inevitable.

As being run by Bush, sure. Like I said, I wouldn't trust this government to disburse 50 bucks. Luckily we're almost done with these looters.

Weaver95: All wars are about resources. And if someone decided to screw with the US, we just made it a LOT easier for them. with weak economy, we're going to become even MORE dependant on overseas resources and LESS able to defend those resources. Not a good position to be in either, in case you missed that.

Who, exactly, are you afraid of...?

DeltaXi65: To them, that's enough. These aren't pragmatical people. They're ideologues. They are the polar opposite of communists, but they both have the same idea - they're unwilling to admit that their cherished beliefs may be wrong, they instead argue that no one has properly implemented them. It's a circular argument.

Well, color me surprised.

DamnYankees: YixilTesiphon: Because it won't work, so we'll still have the crash and depression, and lots of debt to pay off keeping us down for a few extra years.

Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

The ones who disagree with that assertion are the ones who were advising the politicians and bureaucrats who caused the crisis, so I'm not sure why you care what they think. I'm just parroting the ones who predicted this years ago.

Nightjars: That's convenient, I want a rock.

Youre not alone

Farking Zardwarks: oneodd1: Farking Zardwarks: My parents, who are supposed to retire in 2 years, have lost over 50% of their retirement savings. What do they get?

boned for having so much in such a risky place so close to retirement?

Yeah, well, having your 401 in mutual funds is a pretty uncommon thing i guess, especially when trying to catch up from being on a military income for 25 years.

Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh and using my spiffy new jump to conclusions mat... Sorry. Thanks for the service to their country and sorry for their loss. On the other hand, they are in good company (not that this puts meals on the table).

Still if they are "trying to catch up" I would think that they would be aware of the risk involved.

YixilTesiphon: DamnYankees: YixilTesiphon: Because it won't work, so we'll still have the crash and depression, and lots of debt to pay off keeping us down for a few extra years.

Somehow most every economist disagrees with you - why are they all wrong about this?

The ones who disagree with that assertion are the ones who were advising the politicians and bureaucrats who caused the crisis, so I'm not sure why you care what they think. I'm just parroting the ones who predicted this years ago.

Yes. People like Krugman, Summers, Geithner - all folks Bush relied on heavily.

Because, like all good modern conservatives, you color an entire sector of humanity with a broad brush and ignore entire fields of science if you disagree with it.