Duke = Quebec separatists?

Can Harper call for new elections instead of handing over power?

ZAZ: Can Harper call for new elections instead of handing over power?

I believe he tells the Governor General that his government has lost the confidence of the people and recommends dissolving parliament for an election, but she can ask the opposition to form a government instead.

It's King-Byng all over again!

if there is another election, I hope we finally get a majority so we can stop this damn pissing match already and actually deal with the real issues and I don't know, maybe accomplish something in the government.

on the other hand we can continue to waste millions of dollars having an election every 3 months.

This would almost be exciting if not for the party leaders being a collection of honky douche-bags!
/Canuck bored of Canuck politics

OK, I get the whole "lack of an economic plan" and all, but do they have something better? Is a coalition government really better equipped to deal with the current situation? The absolutely last thing the country needs at this point is political maneuvering solely for its own sake.

F-bear: ZAZ: Can Harper call for new elections instead of handing over power?

I believe he tells the Governor General that his government has lost the confidence of the people and recommends dissolving parliament for an election, but she can ask the opposition to form a government instead.

It's King-Byng all over again!

King-Byng 2: The Return of the Modern Parliamentary Crisis in Space!

It's a laugh out loud comedy about three crazy leaders who go on a road trip... in space!

RetroGnome: if there is another election, I hope we finally get a majority so we can stop this damn pissing match already and actually deal with the real issues and I don't know, maybe accomplish something in the government.

You don't need a majority for that, which is the really sad part. The Conservatives could run a government that would be semi-acceptable to the other parties (oh, sure, they'd biatch in public, because they can't ever appear to like what the Conservatives are doing, but they wouldn't bring them down over it). Instead, they continue to throw down the gauntlet as if daring the other parties to stand up to them. Throw it down often enough, eventually someone's going to pick it up.

Not that I merely blame the Conservatives, but they certainly share the majority of the blame - being the ones actually in control.

oldfarthenry
/Canuck bored of Canuck politics

so get rid of it.

darkyn: OK, I get the whole "lack of an economic plan" and all, but do they have something better? Is a coalition government really better equipped to deal with the current situation? The absolutely last thing the country needs at this point is political maneuvering solely for its own sake.

I think I remember the Liberals proposing a huge infrastructure plan during the election, stuff about widening roadways, fixing bridges, putting a high speed train in the corridor, helping public transit along. This was in the news cycle for about 3 hours before it got replaced with 'Harper eats baby/Layton's mustache cures cancer/Dion can't speak english' - which is all true but it did take the wind out of the Liberals only real policy move.

Anyways, anything that gets that douche Flahrty out of his job has my support. The guy should have been indebted for fraud after he cooked Ontario's budget a few years ago.

Dividing power is good.

You can learn from us Canada. Adopt our pluralistic elections, you'll get our fancy two-party system for free.

this Duke?

"The Duck of Death?"

I for one welcome our new Liberal/NDP overlords.

My favorite was Harper saying that Canada will avoid the recession. 1 month later, oh wait, it looks like we are not immune to the credit crisis/recession. Oops, my bad. You'll forgive me, I'm Stephen Harper.

It's worth noting that the vote has actually been postponed until next Monday (the 8th). So as to give time, rumour has it, for the Conservatives to launch a massive ad-blitz calling the move undemocratic, sow fear ("Finance Minster Layton" is the popular one among CPC MPs giving interviews at the moment, I believe) and bringing up quotes from Dion during the election campaign about the fact that they weren't going to have a LPC/NDP coalition.

I wonder if the latter is really a smart move, since Harper and Flaherty have also been contradicting their campaign statements almost daily now.

g026r: It's worth noting that the vote has actually been postponed until next Monday (the 8th). So as to give time, rumour has it, for the Conservatives to launch a massive ad-blitz calling the move undemocratic, sow fear ("Finance Minster Layton" is the popular one among CPC MPs giving interviews at the moment, I believe) and bringing up quotes from Dion during the election campaign about the fact that they weren't going to have a LPC/NDP coalition.

I wonder if the latter is really a smart move, since Harper and Flaherty have also been contradicting their campaign statements almost daily now.

I think they'll be saying "Finance Minister Rae" personally. It will be interesting if they can sell this successfully as "the opposition finally gets off their ass when we threaten to cut off their kickbacks", as opposed to "we've put a poison pill in our shiatty half-assed economic recovery plan, please look the other way while we keep pushing for laissez-faire bullshiat".

Sorry, I dont think so.

3 left of centre parties can combine for over 50% of the votes. That is much more representative than what we have now.

Demon of the Fall: I think they'll be saying "Finance Minister Rae" personally.

They may change, but at the moment it's Layton. I think it was Baird who trotted that one out during an interview.

After seeing how efficiently the CPC war machine was able to convince Canadians that Stephane Dion can't speak English, I have no reason not to think that they won't be just as effective convincing us that the opposition is attempting a coup d'etat.

Arguments such as "you vote for your local MP, then it's up to those guys to determine who ends up as the government" might be true, but they don't hold much weight in today's Canada.

Duke? You mean Duke Phillips? Because we all know why he lost

RetroGnome: if there is another election, I hope we finally get a majority so we can stop this damn pissing match already and actually deal with the real issues and I don't know, maybe accomplish something in the government.

on the other hand we can continue to waste millions of dollars having an election every 3 months.

This is not an attempt at another election, but the exploration of a perfectly legal, albeit rare, type of government. I don't believe for an instant that the Liberals want another election right now.

This has the advantage of toppling the governing party and still continuing with a viable government. Nothing wrong with it and I see it as an attempt to break the minority government deadlock we have had for some time now.

RabbitOfCaerbannog: I don't believe for an instant that the Liberals want another election right now.

They don't, and neither do the NDP or the Bloc, simply because none of them are currently in a state where they can afford another election so soon.

g026r:
They don't, and neither do the NDP or the Bloc, simply because none of them are currently in a state where they can afford another election so soon.

They can't afford it but even if they could: The Bloc is stable with the power they have, the NDP are relatively strong, and the Liberals are in the midst of a leadership change. All have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Canadians don't want a majority Conservative government, nor do they want a majority Liberal government right now. They also are tired of minorities. A coalition makes sense. Outside of a Liberal/NDP match-up, I can't see how any combination could achieve this.

Steven Harper's not a stupid politician. He could come back and form a coalition with the Rhinos and the Natural Law Party. Their ideologies are all quite similar (like how the PC plan to sell infrastructure and the Rhino idea to auction off the Senate are virtually identical), and I think everyone agrees Doug Henning would give the economy a real bounce as Minister of Finance.

*nodding solemnly*

For those of you who are wondering....

Dion=Nader
Duccepe=Perot
Layton=Duke

Dorf11: Steven Harper's not a stupid politician. He could come back and form a coalition with the Rhinos and the Natural Law Party. Their ideologies are all quite similar (like how the PC plan to sell infrastructure and the Rhino idea to auction off the Senate are virtually identical), and I think everyone agrees Doug Henning would give the economy a real bounce as Minister of Finance.

*nodding solemnly*

Two skateboards in every garage.

Not only is the subby wrong but also unfunny. FAIL.

A coalition will work until the bloc decides they've gotten everything they want out of the LPC/NDP government and we'll be back at the polls by summer. ohh well.

Flappyhead: For those of you who are wondering....

Dion=Nader
Duccepe=Perot
Layton=Duke

Nonsense. Nader speaks English.

darkyn: OK, I get the whole "lack of an economic plan" and all, but do they have something better? Is a coalition government really better equipped to deal with the current situation? The absolutely last thing the country needs at this point is political maneuvering solely for its own sake.

Harper has done a lot of damage to public safety and what acttally goes on inside Canadian homes. If you have a family, or if you live in a city, Harper is pissing on your life. Especially urban families! This is why the Grits and the Dippers cleaned up in cities where prisons, homeless shelters, major hospitals, and postsecondary institutions affect daily life, but got clobbered in suburbs and rural areas where problems are just put on a bus and shipped out.

The economic thingy is a way for the opposition to piggyback what is in the news. They don't have much choice. The Canadians who don't vote are also mostly watching American tv, so they don't necessarily know that Harper's cutbacks are the reason they see more homeless people on the street and fewer high school kids getting help with math at school. So our parties have to speak Yankee to the general public.

Digeratus: Flappyhead: For those of you who are wondering....

Dion=Nader
Duccepe=Perot
Layton=Duke

Nonsense. Nader speaks English.

OK. Then Dion=Bush.

starsrift: Two skateboards in every garage.

Bouncing in cosmic rhythm. And it's okay because they're married.

/brought to you by the RP/NLP/PC Coalition
//and booze

Mike090: Not only is the subby wrong but also unfunny. FAIL.

A coalition will work until the bloc decides they've gotten everything they want out of the LPC/NDP government and we'll be back at the polls by summer. ohh well.

Quebec has the sweetest deal of all. No matter the government, it's: give us money, give us money, and we'll support you - then they get the support and still vote Bloc. Sometimes I wish I lived in Quebec to enjoy the benefits that the rest of the country pays for. But then I remember, I'd have to live in Quebec.

Good!

With his decision to use the economic crisis to attempt to financially cripple the opposition parties, Harper has shown that he is unable or unwilling to work with the minority mandate that Canadians have given him. A minority means you compromise and work with other parties. How boneheaded and ideologically stubborn do you have to be to put forth a plan that NOT ONE of the THREE other opposition parties can support? All he needed was to find common ground with one other party. How incompetent and arrogant do you have to be to not even be able to do that?

A coalition would be an improvement. Please actually get it done this time, fellows.

Duke? Which one?

David, University or Marma?

Malbar: I don't understand why people think the NDP, Liberals and Bloc could possibly cooperate on anything, especially since it was the inability of the Liberals and NDP to cooperate that ended Martin's government.

Dion was the most left-wing leader the Liberals have had since Trudeau, and even he was a huge fan of corporate tax-cuts and free trade. He called Layton an old-fashioned, job killing socialist for crying out loud.
The only reason you won't see a Conservative/Liberal alliance is because they're the only parties with a realistic chance of forming a government, and this causes a competitive dynamic that isn't really incompatible with cooperation. Ideologically, they probably make the best pairing of any two parties.

You're right, there's more difference between the NDP and Liberals
than between the Conservatives and Liberals.

The sad thing is that while our economy is spiraling down into a depression. all these idiots are more concerned with is who's in charge.

Harper a few years ago, from a CBC interview with Evan Solomon:

Solomon: So why did you write that letter to the Governor-General with Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton saying in the event of a confidence vote situation do not call a snap election - are we to assume that therefore you're working to form a coalition?

Harper: There seems to be an attitude in the Liberal government - that they can go in, be deliberately defeated and call an election - that's not how our constitutional system works. The government has a minority - it has an obligation to demonstrate to Canadians that it can govern. That it can form a majority in the House of Commons. If it can't form a majority, we look at other options, we don't just concede to the government's request to make it dysfunctional. I know for a fact that Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Layton and the people who work for them want this Parliament to work and I know if is in all of our interests to work. The government has got to face the fact it has a minority, it has to work with other people.

---

Harper: Well there are lots of things that could bring the government down, but my opposition can not bring the government down. The government can only be brought down because it alienates several parties in the House. And the first obligation in this Parliament, if the government wants to govern, it has to come to Parliament and it has to show that it can get the support of the majority of members, through the Throne Speech, through legislation, and through budget and supply, and the government to this point has made no effort to do that, but that's its first obligation.

Solomon: Is there a similarity between this government and the Joe Clark government?

Harper: We'll see. We'll see - time will tell - but there does seem to be an attitude that they can govern as if they have a majority. And as I've told you I think Joe Clark taught us I think that's the wrong attitude to have in a minority Parliament.

Solomon: They didn't consult...

Harper: It didn't work either.

Esn: Harper a few years ago, from a CBC interview with Evan Solomon:

Solomon: So why did you write that letter to the Governor-General with Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton saying in the event of a confidence vote situation do not call a snap election - are we to assume that therefore you're working to form a coalition?

Harper: There seems to be an attitude in the Liberal government - that they can go in, be deliberately defeated and call an election - that's not how our constitutional system works. The government has a minority - it has an obligation to demonstrate to Canadians that it can govern. That it can form a majority in the House of Commons. If it can't form a majority, we look at other options, we don't just concede to the government's request to make it dysfunctional. I know for a fact that Mr. Duceppe and Mr. Layton and the people who work for them want this Parliament to work and I know if is in all of our interests to work. The government has got to face the fact it has a minority, it has to work with other people.

---

Harper: Well there are lots of things that could bring the government down, but my opposition can not bring the government down. The government can only be brought down because it alienates several parties in the House. And the first obligation in this Parliament, if the government wants to govern, it has to come to Parliament and it has to show that it can get the support of the majority of members, through the Throne Speech, through legislation, and through budget and supply, and the government to this point has made no effort to do that, but that's its first obligation.

Solomon: Is there a similarity between this government and the Joe Clark government?

Harper: We'll see. We'll see - time will tell - but there does seem to be an attitude that they can govern as if they have a majority. And as I've told you I think Joe Clark taught us I think that's the wrong attitude to have in a minority Parliament.

Solomon: They didn't consult...

Harper: It didn't work either.

Lulz.

Bestbank Tiger: Digeratus: Flappyhead: For those of you who are wondering....

Dion=Nader
Duccepe=Perot
Layton=Duke

Nonsense. Nader speaks English.

OK. Then Dion=Bush.

This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Malbar: I don't understand why people think the NDP, Liberals and Bloc could possibly cooperate on anything, especially since it was the inability of the Liberals and NDP to cooperate that ended Martin's government.

Both the Bloc and the Liberals are in a great deal of debt. The NDP is in much better straits, but it's not nearly as stable as the CPC. If either the Liberals or the Bloc vote to accept this new motion, they run an extremely high risk of putting their parties in jeopardy of existence, almost literally.

They took out loans based on the knowledge that they had an "income" coming in after the election which they could use to pay off the loans. In the future, if there is still this public subsidy, they will take out loans again, based on being able to pay it back via the subsidy. The Liberal party has debts from the last election to pay for (not to mention the Liberal leadership race from a few years back, and the one upcoming) that need the subsidy. Anything that jeopardizes it has the chance to jeopardize the party; defaulting on a loan and possibly needing to declare bankruptcy is a death knell for any party.

While it is hyperbolic to some degree, there is also an element in truth in saying that if the Bloc and Liberals don't work together on this, both parties could be lost. This is not a good thing. This leaves Canada with, effectively, a two-party system; Conservative and NDP. Wing-nuts and Moonbats. The Bloc and the Liberals would still likely run candidates, but people will be far less willing to vote for them since they would be "failed" parties, and it's possible that bankruptcy would have a disastrous effect on fundraising and campaigning; if the leader can't afford to leave his riding or to pay for ads on national TV, then they're screwed for getting their message out there and into the public consciousness.

The Liberals and the Bloc have to work together; the NDP are jumping on this because they know this is the one, and only, time they will ever be in a position of power, nationally. Even as the second fiddle to the Liberals, they will have some cabinet ministers, they will have a great deal of sway in the government, and it's a chance for Jack Layton to show that he really does deserve to be Prime Minister one day; he's not going to fark this up.

In another thread, I said that only the CPC and their shrills were confused about what's going on. I'm repeating that point here; none of the three opposition parties want a Conservative majority. If an election is called now thanks to a vote of Non Confidence and no Coalition to present to the Governor General, Harper gets his Majority for the simple reason that there is not a current opposition leader who has the ability to tell Canadians straight up what this is, without coming across as whiny or sanctimonious. The Bloc will lose a few seats in Quebec, a few NDP and Liberal ridings will go Conservative, and Harper has a Majority. The Liberals, Bloc and NDP can't allow that to happen.

Up here in the great white north, we thought we were on just a Double Diamond hill, with a few moguls. Turns out we could be heading down a path that was gone down once before, and the last guys to do it hit a tree at the end of the path. Hopefully we don't do the same this time.

More like Al Gore forming a coalition with Nader and Perot and uh... a bunch of wacky libertarians.

darkyn: OK, I get the whole "lack of an economic plan" and all, but do they have something better? Is a coalition government really better equipped to deal with the current situation? The absolutely last thing the country needs at this point is political maneuvering solely for its own sake.

Yeah. I think they would be better equipped.

All three have a common interest. Upthread some people are talking about how they have more differences than commonalities, but that's not actually the case. The manufacturing sector is a big interest for all of them. There are significant areas of overlap economically. Obviously, the NDP is coming at the issue from the left. Their interest in a stimulus package will be on a blue-collar jobs level. The Bloc, I think, would be in a similar position; both the Bloc and the NDP are close to unions. Duceppe sets their agenda and Duceppe is a former union organizer, after all. The Liberals have been endorsed by the CAW. They're pro-business, but what they really are is pro-economic success; it's a pragmatism thing, not an ideological thing.

In terms of domestic and foreign policy, there is a lot of overlap. For example, both the Liberals and the Bloc care a lot about the promotion of the French language and of culture - although obviously, for exact opposite reasons. All three parties are very attuned to the economic well-being of central-eastern Canada and of Canadian cities, to industries like manufacturing and the arts, to environmental concerns, to housing prices. On the other hand, the Conservatives, policy-wise, are much more highly attuned to the energy industry, which is also suffering with low prices, which is something that the government of Canada actually can't do anything about.

Finally, all the parties care deeply about their own survival. Probably they wouldn't be acting to defeat the government if their survival was not at stake. That's because they're used to just lying there while Harper beats them. But the threat to their own survival, combined with threats to Canada's economy - Harper's finally pushed it too far and they've had to man up.

bobbette:
Finally, all the parties care deeply about their own survival. Probably they wouldn't be acting to defeat the government if their survival was not at stake. That's because they're used to just lying there while Harper beats them. But the threat to their own survival, combined with threats to Canada's economy - Harper's finally pushed it too far and they've had to man up.

Bingo. Why haven't we seen movement like this for the past 6 weeks? Because the opposition didn't have a reason to work together. Now they do. Thank's Stevie. You're doin' a heck of a job.

Ever watch Harper and his government, they're the most immature useless ass-clowns who make a joke of our politics.

The majority of people know Harper for what he is. All through the recent election you heard all the parties "Harper has his own agenda, not in favor of Canada"

We're talking about Harper, a man who said "Don't worry, if I my changes hurt Canada, your Charter of Rights will stop me"

Not that any particular party is great, but its a sign something is up when all the parties ban together to boot you out.

//Either that or a brilliant ploy, but I won't get into that.

Riley Diefenbach: veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Olivia Chow and Jack Layton being in any form of executive power disgusts me.... why no one has ever mentioned they get money from the PRC is beyond me and the Bloc at the end of the day are separatists... I mean come on. Harper pushed too hard with the financial survival of the liberal party with the new leadership contest coming up, I hope to god he backs off and works with the liberals.

/red tory that will go liberal when Ignatieff takes the leadership.

veryequiped: Riley Diefenbach: veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Conservatives and Harper are further left than Obama and the Dems, flee troll...

Silovik: veryequiped: Riley Diefenbach: veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Conservatives and Harper are further left than Obama and the Dems, flee troll...

You really need to read up zilcho. Stephen Harper fully backs the NAU, and the massive highway they have planned from Texas. If you follow this AT ALL, you'll do anything to keep Harper from getting Majority. If he does, kiss Canada good bye.

//I'd call you a troll, but I honestly don't think your that smart. no offense...

veryequiped: Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Rule number one, when you use CAPITALS AFTER EVERYTHING YOU SAY,
it looks like you're yelling.

Show me where Harper's declared his open LOVE of Bush. (by the way I'm not a big fan of Harper either)

Fark should be an open discourse for adults to discuss issues.
If you're not over 18 then please step away from the adults table. If you are over 18, try not take anything from a website so personally.

\Got it?
\\Tool

veryequiped: Silovik: veryequiped: Riley Diefenbach: veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Conservatives and Harper are further left than Obama and the Dems, flee troll...

You really need to read up zilcho. Stephen Harper fully backs the NAU, and the massive highway they have planned from Texas. If you follow this AT ALL, you'll do anything to keep Harper from getting Majority. If he does, kiss Canada good bye.

//I'd call you a troll, but I honestly don't think your that smart. no offense...

oooohhh the NAU.... and 9/11 was a conspiracy etc. And oh noes a highway! If Canada and America get linked by 1 more road that will be the end of freedom for the North, it might even lead to a common currency like how the EURO devoured the states of Europe, which are now fascist hell holes. Thank god you brought this to our attention!

veryequiped: Silovik: veryequiped: Riley Diefenbach: veryequiped: This list is entirely wrong, and HARPER=BUSH. People don't realize this, but Harper LOVES Bush, they're friends, and Harper agrees with all of Bush's policies. Sickening. TOSS HIS ASS OUT

Wrong: Bush is a lame duck. Who are you going to blame when Bush is out in 2 months and Harper's still in.

\nice try troll

Are you retarded? You must be because you haven't been paying attention. Harper has openly declared his love of Bush, and has called Canadians lazy and shameful. THESE ARE HIS WORDS YOU ZILCH.

Conservatives and Harper are further left than Obama and the Dems, flee troll...

You really need to read up zilcho. Stephen Harper fully backs the NAU, and the massive highway they have planned from Texas. If you follow this AT ALL, you'll do anything to keep Harper from getting Majority. If he does, kiss Canada good bye.

//I'd call you a troll, but I honestly don't think your that smart. no offense...



You guys keep this crap up and I am moving to Mexico.

Yes our economy is down, we live in a global economy and are strongly affected by forces external to Canada.

Also, however, we aren't as bad off as a lot of other countries are as a result of good policies enacted by both Liberals and Conservatives.

And if you want to say Harper is a Bush clone please cite examples of every position where their position is identical. Yes Harper is right wing for Canada but that is more similar to a centrist Democrat in the States.

My problem with the Liberals and NDP currently is that all they are talking about is how much money they can spend.