You do know that this whole thing is to save 30 million, right smitty?

... which ain't going to do sweet FA to the defecit/debt?

They didn't like the outcome of the last election so they're trying to force the opposition into the position of calling one.

A coalition would avoid that... and I would laugh at the Conservatives for their hubris.

I came here to say what Olaf said. He's exactly right, but the Harper fellator's will never see that.

OlafTheBent: You do know that this whole thing is to save 30 million, right smitty?

... which ain't going to do sweet FA to the defecit/debt?

They didn't like the outcome of the last election so they're trying to force the opposition into the position of calling one.

A coalition would avoid that... and I would laugh at the Conservatives for their hubris.

This. And I already e-mailed my MP to voice my support for a coalition gov't.

Harper is still eating babies.

I could definitely get behind a coalition.

That's a Bloc/Green coalition, right?

/Voted ABC last time.
//Will voter ABC next time.

Yeah, let's get another leader who can barely speak English and doesn't quite know what foot his shoe goes on as leader. That'll be awesome.

If the PC are truly trying to force an election then shame on them. But I won't be happy with a Dion PM either.

I also don't see how crossing the floor is legal anyways. If I voted NDP for the NDP values [whatever hippie socialist pot-induced things those are] then I damn well expect NDP values in my riding.

Frankly, I'd expect that people would be upset by a coalition. I mean if you voted NDP and are happy with a coalition [that would see Dion as leader] then why didn't you just vote Liberal to begin with?

Oh right, because you're a farking idiot.

jimmiejaz: Harper is still eating babies.

Only NDP babies

/cuz their parents don't work
//and they have so many of them...

selling assets is a band-aid on the leg for a would to the chest, and counter-productive...what if we need that shiat in a few years? Are we just going to buy it back?


And any stimulus package won't see the light of day until January, which is surprising. I would have thought that the government would want to act quickly and try and get something done before christmas to avoid any delays, and therefore negative consequences of a sinking economic situation.

The whole selling assets thing of the Conservatives really pisses me off. It's like self-sabotage. In their private affairs they will tell you that you make money by INvesting, in government they divest and do everything they can to avoid producing capital.

Harper is trying to stifle the opposition parties ability to run campaigns. The Cons are really the Reform Party in disguise, rebranded to appeal to the centrists that kept Reform and Canadian Alliance from gaining any real clout.

Garth Turner explains it rather well in his blog, he's the one that was kicked out of the Conservative caucus because of his blog.

You don't sell assets in a buyer's market. That's just ridiculous.

The conservative government is just doing this to turn a quick buck so that they'll come off as doing something positive for the economy in hard times. In reality, this is a bad idea in the long term.

The government should be spending money on building infrastructure right now.

Well, considering Canada had a MASSIVE surplus when the liberals were in power...

Granted the conservatives have gone through a short time with the parity to the USD (which destroyed tourism for a bit)... but that's really no excuse to totally erode the surplus and plunge the country into a deficit.

I mean, it's not like the U.S. and Bush... but still. It's pretty bad.

And yes America.

We're in ur Fark, taking over ur politics tab.

no no, dig up stupid

which assets are being sold off? The cbc website doesn't mention it. Why do they just say 'government assets'? that's meaningless. I want to know which ones!

The finance minister said he will save money by selling $2.3 billion in government assets - including property - and another $2 billion in cuts, particularly salary controls for public servants as well as MPs and senators.

The salary controls are good.. the asset sell off seems pretty much retarded. Prices are depressed right now. Why sell now? Market vale will be a rip off for the canadian tax payers.. Our best bet at this point is chinas stimulus package, if china can stay hungry for commodities we should see a revival pretty quickly.

I'm glad theres no stimulus though. Canadians need to get away from the consumer habits that are gutting the united states and get away from a negative personal savings rate. we DO NOT need the government to bail consumers out with there own money.

The interest rate cut - China's biggest in 11 years and the fourth cut in the past three months - was expected to lead to increased demand for oil.
Light, sweet crude for January delivery jumped $3.67, or more than 7 percent, to settle at $54.44 a barrel.

please keep at it china.... please?

tombotia: Yeah, let's get another leader who can barely speak English and doesn't quite know what foot his shoe goes on as leader. That'll be awesome.

If the PC are truly trying to force an election then shame on them. But I won't be happy with a Dion PM either.

I also don't see how crossing the floor is legal anyways. If I voted NDP for the NDP values [whatever hippie socialist pot-induced things those are] then I damn well expect NDP values in my riding.

Frankly, I'd expect that people would be upset by a coalition. I mean if you voted NDP and are happy with a coalition [that would see Dion as leader] then why didn't you just vote Liberal to begin with?

Oh right, because you're a farking idiot.

Or.... you could be actually reading what people have been talking about concerning this issue and be you know, informed on the subject instead of ranting.

There would be no floor crossing. Coalition governments are perfectly constitutional in canada. NDP MPs would not cross the floor and become Liberal MPs, they would be NDP MPs sitting in a Liberal led coalition government. The Bloc would not be in the government proper but would pledge their support of it meaning the Liberal-NDP coalition would have the support of the majority of the House.

Dion would not be the leader. He had, after the election, already announced he would resign but was remaining on as essentially interim leader until the convention. The behind the scenes talks have been about Dion stepping down immediately so that the Liberal Executive could appoint a new leader. All indications are that would be Ignatieff because he has more support among the Liberal Caucus and Executive right now then Rae.

The Liberals and NDP could, together, probably get their shiat together to run an effective government at this point and a left-leaning coalition does tend to reflect the majority of Canadians.

This Amp Goes To 11: You don't sell assets in a buyer's market. That's just ridiculous.

You got that right. "Let's just toss some federal office buildings into a market where commercial buildings are sitting vacant for years, and push down the prices if they ever do sell." Great.

Want to auction something useful, how bout some spectrum to competitors to Bell/Telus/Rogers?

BoozePenguin:

we DO NOT need the government to bail consumers out with there own money.

That's crazy. You're crazy.

jake3988

The value of the canadian dollar is deeply connected to commodity prices world wide. Liberals ruled through a commodity boom.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/dollar_cdn/

Another factor that has helped to push up the Canadian dollar is rising commodity prices - especially a run-up in the price of oil. As a net exporter of oil, Canada is seen as benefiting overall from record oil prices.

But it's not just oil. Canada exports huge amounts of nickel, copper, aluminum and zinc. All of these commodities are at or near record highs. With commodities accounting for 35 per cent of Canada's exports, the loonie is seen around the world as a "commodity-based currency," and has been bid up accordingly

among other things of course

get off my internets canadians.

/i kid

BoozePenguin: The salary controls are good.. the asset sell off seems pretty much retarded. Prices are depressed right now. Why sell now? Market vale will be a rip off for the canadian tax payers.. Our best bet at this point is chinas stimulus package, if china can stay hungry for commodities we should see a revival pretty quickly.

I'm glad theres no stimulus though. Canadians need to get away from the consumer habits that are gutting the united states and get away from a negative personal savings rate. we DO NOT need the government to bail consumers out with there own money.

Cutting wasteful spending is good, salary controls are a good idea but depending on how much they want to cut it could be prohibitive to retaining GOOD civil servants who can make better money elsewhere.

As for the stimulus. Well we can;t rely exclusively on commodities and doing a massive bail-out like the US is silly. Our banks are in much better shape but manufacturing is pretty beat up. From my reading of different economists it seems like government spending is exactly what you should do in a recession but you have to be smart about it. Throwing cash at the problem doesn;t help but there are lots of areas where the government can spend money as a stimulus that probably needs to be done anyway. Announcing that you are going to put money into things like infastructure improvements and such is a stimulus, just a more targeted one. And one that seems to work as well as having longer term benefits.

Lawnchair: Want to auction something useful, how bout some spectrum to competitors to Bell/Telus/Rogers?

That happened months ago already.

Was there something wrong with the thread about this one link down?

entropic_existence

That's putting money into areas the government is already responsible for. If work needs to be done of course we should pursue it to keep jobs etc. But if it's just busy work, that's financed by taxation on other individuals in resilient industries... i think that's a mistake.

albeit not as much of a mistake as a consumer stimulus package.

That said i think many canadians aren't quite as aware how much we rise and fall with commodity prices. Thank god we aren't as depend on it as latin american countries because these rises and falls destroy their social order.. but still.. it's an issue canadians need to grapple with like our negative savings rate.

I really am not down with a negative savings rate.

They're 'conservatives'. Why don't they just do what American 'conservatives' do: borrow to cover the shortfall and pass the debt on to the next generation(s)?

Hello - I'm Stephen Harper and I'm putting the self-interests of the conservative party ahead of the well-being of the nation.
Why? Because I'm a spiteful douche-nozzle! That's why!

tombotia: Oh right, because you're a farking idiot.

Many, many many of the voters from the last election saw Harper for the evil person he is. He was trying to take away public campaign financing until this morning. that was what made Canadian elections democratic in the educated opinion of every poli sci grad student at my university, and other people I know. Bascially, Harper is dangerous, more dangerous to our personal and public safety than any other party.

See those homeless people on the street? They are there because of his cuts to shelters and employment programs. You are personally in danger from homeless drug addicts because of his cuts. Too bad you won't do anything about it. A coalition would.

Came in to say pretty much what CanadianCommie ,Thorndyke Barnhard,This Amp Goes To 11 said.

These economic solutions, as is typical of the 'Conservative Party of Canada', are typically superficial. That isn't to say that any other party would be better. Canada has been running without any true leadership for quite some time, imho.

The difficulty is that putting Ignatieff in as deputy leader (I work on the Iggie campaign) is that it would be unfair to Rae and the would be king-maker. NDP leader J Layton has already said the NDP wont join a coalition with Dion at the head. What to do?

But for reals, Harper was a better opposition leader than he is as PM. And Flaherty is a farking tool. He publicly said that Ontario is the last place in the Canada businesses should invest. He's a partisan hack, on a muzzled goon cabinet.

Its not even the conservative economic policy that bothers me the most, is the constant positioning and brinksmanship even after their gamble for a majority failed. STOP GRINNING YOU FAT FARK

whereisian: Was there something wrong with the thread about this one link down?

Yah, I don't know what happened there. I would have expected a second thread on this topic (if any) to be about the Cons flinching and backing down on the public financing issue, as a follow up.

hyperspacemonkey: tombotia: Oh right, because you're a farking idiot.

Many, many many of the voters from the last election saw Harper for the evil person he is. He was trying to take away public campaign financing until this morning. that was what made Canadian elections democratic in the educated opinion of every poli sci grad student at my university, and other people I know. Bascially, Harper is dangerous, more dangerous to our personal and public safety than any other party.

See those homeless people on the street? They are there because of his cuts to shelters and employment programs. You are personally in danger from homeless drug addicts because of his cuts. Too bad you won't do anything about it. A coalition would.

Really? Homeless people is because of the two years that Harper has been in power?

This is why nobody takes you serious when you say "me and my uni friends think XYZ..."

Frankly, you give him too much credit for the problems of the world. Even if he wanted to create a homeless problem he hasn't been in power long enough to have created such far reaching problems.

Last I checked there were homeless people during the Liberals tenure too.

And frankly, most unsheltered homeless people isn't for a lack of space but a lack of compliance with the most basic rules of civilized living. How many side-walk drunks have you see in your days? Now ask yourself this, how is a person with supposedly limited [to no] means, drunk?

I don't think it's Harper going around splitting 24s with homeless people.

Whichever party/parties is seen as triggering another election so soon after the last one will be severely punished by a cranky electorate. I wonder how much of this is a bluff?

BoozePenguin: That's putting money into areas the government is already responsible for. If work needs to be done of course we should pursue it to keep jobs etc. But if it's just busy work, that's financed by taxation on other individuals in resilient industries... i think that's a mistake.

albeit not as much of a mistake as a consumer stimulus package.

That said i think many canadians aren't quite as aware how much we rise and fall with commodity prices. Thank god we aren't as depend on it as latin american countries because these rises and falls destroy their social order.. but still.. it's an issue canadians need to grapple with like our negative savings rate.

I really am not down with a negative savings rate.

I realize how much we go up and down based on commidty prices. I also recognize that we have to make sure that we go up when it is up but not down quite so much when it goes down by diversifying our economy some more.

That said most economists seem to agree that spending in some capacity is a good thing. And targeted spending in areas that are already the governments responsibility IS still a stimulus.

Something in that link crashed my Firefox. Twice.

tombotia: I don't think it's Harper going around splitting 24s with homeless people.

I really don't like Harper, but that would be awesome.

Selling assets in this market is downright lunacy. The government will never get a fair price for them and will have to sell for a steep discount. Canadian taxpayers own those assets, and the government has an obligation to get the best deal for those taxpayers.

Assets should be sold at market tops, not market bottoms.

daverzzz: The Cons are really the Reform Party in disguise, rebranded to appeal to the centrists that kept Reform and Canadian Alliance from gaining any real clout.

Wasn't Harper one of Manning's policy boffins? I suspect that you may be more correct than you know.

Also, this whole thing reminds ne of when Ontario sold off the 407, which is now a license to print money. Very poor foresight.

GavinTheAlmighty: Wasn't Harper one of Manning's policy boffins? I suspect that you may be more correct than you know.

He sure was.

Flaherty also signalled strongly that he will introduce a multibillion-dollar fiscal stimulus package that includes major infrastructure spending and possible help for the auto sector in the next federal budget expected in late January.

boy, I'll sure be happy if the elected government is toppled because they wanted to wait a whole two months to announce billions of dollars of spending - you know, maybe work out a plan for it or something - and the new "coalition" government announces it right away, and then realizes you can't just start shipping cash to whoever asks for it. unbelievable.

I mean there's bullshiat political rhetoric, fine, the conservatives are evil, blah blah blah, but it'd be nice if people had a farking grasp on reality.

"This kitten is getting stuffed up my ass unless you vote Conservative."

We really need to ditch Prime Minister Kid Toucher.

Well, the loonie dropped another penny so the market isn't impressed.

And the G&Ms business editorial isn't impressed either. "They not not inspiring confidence"

Also selling assets in a down market is just stupid. You all know that.

That is why many of you are still looking your equities you do not want to lock in a paper loss.

hyperspacemonkey:... that was what made Canadian elections democratic in the educated opinion of every poli sci grad student at my university, and other people I know.


Some educated people I know think that cell phones can blow up gas stations.

El_Swino: Whichever party/parties is seen as triggering another election so soon after the last one will be severely punished by a cranky electorate. I wonder how much of this is a bluff?

If another election is triggered so soon, I guarantee one of the main arguments will be regarding "who caused it?"

CPC: "Nobody wanted to play ball"
Everyone else: "Did you see WTF they were trying to do?"

I lodged a protest vote this past time around. I don't want to have to do it again.

TheOther: "This kitten is getting stuffed up my ass unless you vote Conservative."

HEY! Stop stealing O_F_H's schtick! That's all he's got, man!

Kareeshus: Selling assets in this market is downright lunacy. The government will never get a fair price for them and will have to sell for a steep discount. Canadian taxpayers own those assets, and the government has an obligation to get the best deal for those taxpayers.

Unless your goal is to sell public assets to your rich buddies on the cheap, of course.

Memories of highway 407..

GavinTheAlmighty: daverzzz: The Cons are really the Reform Party in disguise, rebranded to appeal to the centrists that kept Reform and Canadian Alliance from gaining any real clout.

Wasn't Harper one of Manning's policy boffins? I suspect that you may be more correct than you know.

"Salt in the fields" (new window)

hockeyfarker: Flaherty also signalled strongly that he will introduce a multibillion-dollar fiscal stimulus package that includes major infrastructure spending and possible help for the auto sector in the next federal budget expected in late January.

boy, I'll sure be happy if the elected government is toppled because they wanted to wait a whole two months to announce billions of dollars of spending - you know, maybe work out a plan for it or something..."

I hear ya. Nobody saw this economic crisis coming, it just crept up on us and pounced!

The time for 'planning' was three months ago when we knew the crisis was coming. This government would barely admit there was a crisis till after the election.

Go and get updated talking points please, you must have missed last weeks meeting.