Wow, that's going to sit poorly with Congress.

Ok, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Now lets see it done!

KIA: Wow, that's going to sit poorly with Congress.

Sure, but it won't look good if they obviously block attempts at budget cutting. People will be paying attention now.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Now lets see it done!

As am I...Now let's see some details.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Ok, I'm liking what I'm hearing.



Fellas, you're gonna want that cowbell government spending cut on the track.

I like what I'm hearing.

Here's my concern - why cut government spending in a recession? You're supposed to cut taxes and increase government spending under a Keynesian model.

Once we get out of the recession, I hope he goes gangbusters with the budget, but doing that on the front end with the issues we have now may not be the best solution.

Not "cut big government spending." He's looking to increase overall spending and the deficit. Kind of like the so-called conservatives of this decade. We need Newt Gingrich v2.0 to rein him in for a full reprise of the Clinton years.

He did say he was going to be the president of everyone, not just liberals.

Which kind of sucks for the liberals.

DeltaXi65: why cut government spending in a recession? You're supposed to cut taxes and increase government spending under a Keynesian model.

Which spending matters. What you're supposed to do is spend money on things likely to increase your tax base in the future - infrastructure, job categories (like his green energy stuff), and things like that. Not boondoggles. He's saying the right things, I hope he can get them done.

SphericalTime: He did say he was going to be the president of everyone, not just liberals.

Which kind of sucks for the liberals.

He's still talking about investing a lot into new alternative energy and health care, so I'm not disappointed.

DeltaXi65: Here's my concern - why cut government spending in a recession? You're supposed to cut taxes and increase government spending under a Keynesian model.

Once we get out of the recession, I hope he goes gangbusters with the budget, but doing that on the front end with the issues we have now may not be the best solution.

You are assuming that the economy will ever bounce back and that it will bounce back within the next 4 to 8 years. I don't think this is likely. The US will have to cut defense spending if it ever wants to tackle the debt. Of course, you could always sell Alaska to China.

mrshowrules: You are assuming that the economy will ever bounce back and that it will bounce back within the next 4 to 8 years. I don't think this is likely. The US will have to cut defense spending if it ever wants to tackle the debt. Of course, you could always sell Alaska to China.

Of course the economy is going to bounce back. It always has. The issue here is how long the recessions lasts, not if we will ever beat it.

Lando Lincoln: He's still talking about investing a lot into new alternative energy and health care, so I'm not disappointed.

I still don't see the downside on spending on alternative energy sources. It'll only help in the long run. Just too bad we've been too shortsighted the last few years to put any real thought into it, until it was too late.

As for health care spending, they can use the money they take from my paycheck on Medicare/Medicaid.

/How are those programs going?

mrshowrules: Of course, you could always sell Alaska to China.


LOL. But I think that Russia is first in line for that deal.

ZAZ: We need Newt Gingrich v2.0 to rein him in for a full reprise of the Clinton years.

Clinton's tax proposals passed in 1993, without the support of a single Republican member of congress.

Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?

I'm cautiously optimistic, but I'll believe it when I see it. I often differ from democrats over what is considered a spending "cut", let alone "essential" government programs.

Lando Lincoln: He's still talking about investing a lot into new alternative energy and health care, so I'm not disappointed.

Really, because that basically means spending trillions on an energy market that doesn't even exist, and incurring the cost of health care for millions of people.

Oh, did I mention we have no money?

Semi-Sane: Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?

Yeah, still do. I just believe him to be pragmatic. This isn't the time to do it. He will when he can. Deficits don't pay for themselves.

RoxtarRyan: I still don't see the downside on spending on alternative energy sources.

If you were ExxonMobil (or a politician funded by them), you'd see the downside to spending on alternative energy.

Semi-Sane: Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?


I expect that number to creep downward.

Semi-Sane 2008-11-25 02:10:55 PM Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?
===================

Of course he's going to. And he should. Bush's spending via budget wasn't much higher each year than how much Clinton expanded it... but Clinton had the balls to raise taxes.

Please. For the budget's sake and our economy... raise taxes. Not right now, obviously, but slowly and surely over the next 4 years.

USP .45: Lando Lincoln: He's still talking about investing a lot into new alternative energy and health care, so I'm not disappointed.

Really, because that basically means spending trillions on an energy market that doesn't even exist, and incurring the cost of health care for millions of people.

Oh, did I mention we have no money?

Um,
Just to reitierate, you *Don't* think we'll see oil and gas and prices rise again? And we won't still be beholden to Middle Eastern nations who like us sucking on th oil teat?

Getting off of that cycle is worth almost *Any* cost.

/You are a tool of the first order

Semi-Sane: Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?

Did anyone actually believe that McCain was going to fix the economy by CUTTING taxes?

Pro Zack: I expect that number to creep downward.

He isn't going to raise taxes, which is evidence that he will raise them more than he said he would.

Come on, Sparky, its not that hard.

Pro Zack: I expect that number to creep downward.

You do realize that he's attempting to revive the economy my trying to get a fair bit of disposable income into the hands of the middle class, right? Raising middle class taxes won't help that goal. Of course, there is some room for that number to come down, but there shouldn't be a reason for him to do so.

I Like Bread: Did anyone actually believe that McCain was going to fix the economy by CUTTING taxes?

Palin seemed to.

Pro Zack: Semi-Sane: Did anyone actually believe that Obama was going to raise taxes on people making over $250k a year?

I expect that number to creep downward.

If it turns out you're wrong, will you admit it and pledge to vote for moderate Democrats in the future?

Heh. Thought not.

The only thing I care about it alternative energy. If we had been putting that $10 billion a month in renewable energy instead of Iraq, we'd likely be off our oil addiction by now.

Only Nixon could go to China...

EatHam: Which spending matters. What you're supposed to do is spend money on things likely to increase your tax base in the future - infrastructure, job categories (like his green energy stuff), and things like that. Not boondoggles. He's saying the right things, I hope he can get them done.

High speed rail would be a huge infrastructure project that I think could be a good idea. Unfortunately, I don't think it could get going in time to help us with this recession.

Here's my concern - why cut government spending in a recession?

Because our national debt is crippling us, for one.

I Like Bread: Did anyone actually believe that McCain was going to fix the economy by CUTTING taxes?

The Keynesian's did, as someone else pointed out increased government spending and a reduction in taxes for consumers is Keynesian/Neo-Keynesian.

I don't think Obama is a dedicated Keynesian, it's just the economic model supported by the court intellectuals and so it is popular today. He is using what he is presented with, and probably doesn't have the will or desire to try to change our entire economic model assuming he doesn't agree with it.

He already said don't worry about the deficit for at least 2 years, so I'm going to assume that he will spend and lower taxes as soon as he gets into office. Later on he will try to raise taxes on some people if he wants to lower the deficit, or wants to come through with a campaign promise.

USP .45: Really, because that basically means spending trillions on an energy market that doesn't even exist, and incurring the cost of health care for millions of people.

Oh, did I mention we have no money?

We've got money for the military industrial complex, do we not?

We've ALWAYS got money for THEM.

he sounds like a certain blind governor of the same hue...

dweigert: m,
Just to reitierate, you *Don't* think we'll see oil and gas and prices rise again? And we won't still be beholden to Middle Eastern nations who like us sucking on th oil teat?

Getting off of that cycle is worth almost *Any* cost.

/You are a tool of the first order

Of course we'll see fossil fuel prices rise again asshat. The point is to introduce a market for renewable energy as the rising line of cost (fossil) intersects the diminishing line of cost (renewable). Forcing this shift prematurely with government intervention results in deadweight that falls directly (and regressively) on the consumer in the form of unnecessary energy costs, and increased cost in anything that requires energy to produce or ship (which is basically everything).

Mnemia:
High speed rail would be a huge infrastructure project that I think could be a good idea. Unfortunately, I don't think it could get going in time to help us with this recession.

We just started on one in CA, but it wont be done for another couple of decades. Hopefully the recession won't last THAT long ;)

Jewbag: The only thing I care about it alternative energy. If we had been putting that $10 billion a month in renewable energy instead of Iraq, we'd likely be off our oil addiction by now.

We'd also have less dead soldiers, and the more expensive broken ones.

SOCIALIST!

/heh

USP .45: The point is to introduce a market for renewable energy as the rising line of cost (fossil) intersects the diminishing line of cost (renewable).

everyone look!

some guy still thinks supply and demand drive the price of oil!

Mr.Insightful: Heh. Thought not.

if it turns out I am wrong, I will eat my hat.

I may vote for moderate democrats, but I still won't trust them.

Lando Lincoln: We've ALWAYS got money for THEM

The military is a Constitutional operating cost, though we may have to see some scaling back overseas...with the expectation that the areas we influence will descend toward darkness. And no, I'm not referring to Iraq.

mrshowrules: The US will have to cut defense spending if it ever wants to tackle the debt.

Agreed. As long as we maintain a strong nuclear deterrent and a small, but competent, conventional force, nobody is going to bother us militarily. Economically, that is another matter.

Pro Zack: Mr.Insightful: Heh. Thought not.

if it turns out I am wrong, I will eat my hat.

I may vote for moderate democrats, but I still won't trust them.

That's fair.

obama=bush

Headso: everyone look!

some guy still thinks supply and demand drive the price of oil!

You're an idiot. I was only expressing the price of oil as an assumed rising cost, the demand and supply being irrelevant.

USP .45: blah blah blah

Oh look, another asshole who "stayed the course" while Republicans grew federal spending by more than 40% is suddenly concerned.

USP .45: Lando Lincoln: We've ALWAYS got money for THEM

The military is a Constitutional operating cost, though we may have to see some scaling back overseas...with the expectation that the areas we influence will descend toward darkness. And no, I'm not referring to Iraq.

We have troops in Mordor?

The military's budget is bloated beyond belief. America cannot afford to be an imperial power anymore, at least if we want to continue to have healthcare for most people.

I Like Bread: Did anyone actually believe that McCain was going to fix the economy by CUTTING taxes?

Most Republicans have been brain-washed to believe that this is the answer for every financial problem.

Economy going sour? Cut taxes.

But we've been cutting taxes since 1952 and our deficit keeps getting bigger and bigger! Fark you. Cut taxes.

Deficit spending up? Fark you. Cut taxes.

Trillions of dollars in the hole? Fark you. Cut taxes.

Foreign governments and banks no longer willing to loan us any money because we owe them too much money already? Fark you. Cut taxes.

Our government is completely broke and government workers aren't showing up for work since they don't get paid anymore? Police aren't patrolling the streets, firemen aren't putting fires out, mail is not getting delivered, streets are not getting repaired? FARK YOU - CUT TAXES!