Did they forget Poland?

Come back, Ally! Come back, Ally's sister! You two meant everything to me!

Well that's double plus good.

The problem with altering the past is that google cache remembers the alterations.

Weaver95: The problem with altering the past is that google cache remembers the alterations.

Proof that Google and historians hate America...

hubiestubert: Weaver95: The problem with altering the past is that google cache remembers the alterations.

Proof that Google and historians hate America...

Oh I have no doubt that our current crop of politicians would love to manipulate reality more than they currently do...they just haven't realized yet how pervasive the net really is these days. Not even the really die hard techies know how far this thing could reach. What I find laughable is governments like the Chinese, who think they can tap the benefits of free flowing information but still control political thought. It isn't working for them, what makes old George here think it'll work for him?

Information gets out, it breaks free and disseminates itself regardless of the wishes of those who wish to control it. it's pointless to even try to control the flow of data, or corrupt the stream.

Damn chocolate is awful too, all crumbly and dusty.
I swear to god, a few more weeks of this stuff and I am totally gonna turn of my telescreen. I mean it, I'll d- -- USER REMOVED --

Costa Rica and Angola removed from the list? Well that changes everything.

Weaver95: Oh I have no doubt that our current crop of politicians would love to manipulate reality more than they currently do...they just haven't realized yet how pervasive the net really is these days.

I think that is what killed McCain more than anything. I said many times in threads, "the guy just does not realize that EVERYTHING ends up on the Internet, spread around, and it's NOT just the super-smart, elite on there." I get the sense that Obama's understanding of the Internet [and relative youth] helped him immensely, on the other hand.

The old school guys really have no idea how big the Internet is, how it works, what it means to them, and really, that it's not going anywhere and will only become more pervasive.

serpent_sky: The old school guys really have no idea how big the Internet is, how it works, what it means to them, and really, that it's not going anywhere and will only become more pervasive.

That used to be the case, but if there's one thing that the old skool guys understand it's 'money'. And Obama raised a LOT of money via the 'net. So they're starting to figure out just what the fuss is about the intertubes. It'll take a while for them to get up to speed and they might not understand facebook but they'll figure out which parts of the online world are important for their purposes.

well...maybe the fundies won't adapt. I suspect their impulse is to try and kill the net with fire.

You're dealing with people who scream that they're victims of persecution if you catch them lying. None of the normal rules for dealing with human beings are in effect anymore.

Weaver95: well...maybe the fundies won't adapt. I suspect their impulse is to try and kill the net with fire.

They're trying. Hell, every major company is trying to either kill or control the internet. The internet is the embodiment of a free marketplace. And it scares the hell out of the "capitalists."

You're all still clearly living in the Reality Based Community. Get with the times folks.

netweavr: Weaver95: well...maybe the fundies won't adapt. I suspect their impulse is to try and kill the net with fire.

They're trying. Hell, every major company is trying to either kill or control the internet. The internet is the embodiment of a free marketplace. And it scares the hell out of the "capitalists."

don't kid yourself - it scares the hell out of everyone. Right, left, Republican, Democrat....anyone who benefits from the status quo is horrified at the idea of the free and unrestricted flow of information.

Granted, a lot of that 'information' is going to be crap. Conspiracy theory, bloviating nonsense, rants, raves and everything in between....but somewhere out there in the middle of all that is useful data. What really concerns the 'powers that be' is a population that's learning to discard the noise and filter data useful to themselves and do so ON THEIR OWN. A self informed populace that isn't vulnerable to scare tactics anymore? the entire advertising industry would collapse overnight.

Weaver95: don't kid yourself - it scares the hell out of everyone. Right, left, Republican, Democrat....anyone who benefits from the status quo is horrified at the idea of the free and unrestricted flow of information.

It would be ironic if the internet version of the Free Market is what killed the "Free Market" that we currently enjoy.

Jesus titty farking christ. Just link to the goddamn article. Not a link that asks you to then click to go to another site to read the article.farking hell.

Weaver95: netweavr: Weaver95: well...maybe the fundies won't adapt. I suspect their impulse is to try and kill the net with fire.

They're trying. Hell, every major company is trying to either kill or control the internet. The internet is the embodiment of a free marketplace. And it scares the hell out of the "capitalists."

don't kid yourself - it scares the hell out of everyone. Right, left, Republican, Democrat....anyone who benefits from the status quo is horrified at the idea of the free and unrestricted flow of information.

Granted, a lot of that 'information' is going to be crap. Conspiracy theory, bloviating nonsense, rants, raves and everything in between....but somewhere out there in the middle of all that is useful data. What really concerns the 'powers that be' is a population that's learning to discard the noise and filter data useful to themselves and do so ON THEIR OWN. A self informed populace that isn't vulnerable to scare tactics anymore? the entire advertising industry would collapse overnight.

QFT. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg on how the internet will change the world.

Government and Big business aren't the only ones who don't understand just much the Internet is changing the way we live our lives.

Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

DAR: Government and Big business aren't the only ones who don't understand just much the Internet is changing the way we live our lives.

Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with education in general. Right now, pretty much anything you could ever need to know is accessible at the press of a single button yet they want us to learn by rote memorization and test us as such. I used to get into tiffs with teachers for questioning this method when I was in school

DAR: Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

Well, my answer would be continuity and context, meaning and fact. The internet is raw information.

But in that same vein, we are not teaching our children critical thinking skills and how to judge the value of the information that's available. For as much as we can be upset by this case of revisionism, the internet as a whole provides a rich source of bad information. Who becomes the authority on truth? The collective consensus?

Did you guys have library "class?"

Do they even teach things like the Dewey Decimal system, or how to utilize the different types of libraries resources? Or has that become obsolete?

Diogenes: Did you guys have library "class?"

Do they even teach things like the Dewey Decimal system, or how to utilize the different types of libraries resources? Or has that become obsolete?

I did when I was in elementary school, but that soon became obsolete as more and more libraries turned to the Library of Congress system and added more computers.

Let's celebrate!

/sounds like a New World Order to me

Aarontology: I think that's one of the biggest problems with education in general. Right now, pretty much anything you could ever need to know is accessible at the press of a single button yet they want us to learn by rote memorization and test us as such.


While that's generally true for empirical knowledge, artistic skills and even advanced mathematical/statistical skills cannot be learned at the touch of a button. Also, practical experience in a particular field is irreplaceable when you don't have time to go look something up.

/End thread jack

Well, technically, yes there are library classes. Just usually at the college level. Library and Information Science degrees are very common. My mom teaches LIS at OU and my stepdad at Tuscaloosa.

Aarontology: DAR: Government and Big business aren't the only ones who don't understand just much the Internet is changing the way we live our lives.

Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with education in general. Right now, pretty much anything you could ever need to know is accessible at the press of a single button yet they want us to learn by rote memorization and test us as such. I used to get into tiffs with teachers for questioning this method when I was in school

I'm sure things will get better as the Capitalist White Patriarchs lose their iron grip on the school systems.

DAR: Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Not to threadjack but college is a lot more than finding facts. College is a life experience for young people - its the first time they're out of the house, they work in groups, etc... Its not the same as living in mom's basement looking stuff up on Wikipedia.

When I went to college, there was no internet until my Senior year, and it was slow and only nerds used it.

bulldg4life: Did they forget Poland?

Damn, was so going to post that.

We have always been at war with Eastasia

vernonFL: When I went to college, there was no internet until my Senior year, and it was slow and only nerds used it.

To be fair, the nerds are the only ones really using the internet for that same purpose. Everyone else in class is on Facebook. Nothing has been gained, imo.

/Okay, so I look at Fark sometimes too during class.

vernonFL: DAR: Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Not to threadjack but college is a lot more than finding facts. College is a life experience for young people - its the first time they're out of the house, they work in groups, etc.It teaches them how easy it is to get into debt
.

FTFY

Weaver95: What really concerns the 'powers that be' is a population that's learning to discard the noise and filter data useful to themselves and do so ON THEIR OWN. A self informed populace that isn't vulnerable to scare tactics anymore? the entire advertising industry would collapse overnight.

Oh, come on The whole industry collapse overnight? That's just fearmongering. Poke around on a few sites discussing human psychology should show that advertising will last...
...wait, does that prove or disprove what you're saying?

/EVERYBODY PANIC MODERATELY IN AN APPROPRIATELY INFORMED MANNER!
//Okay, I guess I actually agree...

DAR: Government and Big business aren't the only ones who don't understand just much the Internet is changing the way we live our lives.

Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

Well, you do need someone "in the know" on the particular subject to generate the original information.

Two other White House lists appear to have been taken off the Web site, according to a study of the documents by Scott L. Althaus and Kalev H. Leetaru of the Cline Center for Democracy at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Whoo, Illini!

/got nothing meaningful to contribute

vernonFL: DAR: Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Not to threadjack but college is a lot more than finding facts. College is a life experience for young people - its the first time they're out of the house, they work in groups, etc... Its not the same as living in mom's basement looking stuff up on Wikipedia.

When I went to college, there was no internet until my Senior year, and it was slow and only nerds used it.

The point of college is also to help develop the ability to process and analyze information and to learn how to learn. For example, I learned as much about the right ways to go about researching history (fact checking, looking at multiple sources, primary source analysis, etc) in my history classes than I learned about actual historical events. It gave me the framework that I could build upon.

I'm teaching English reading at a university in Asia, and I consider my job a success not just based on whether their English vocabulary improves while they're in my class, it's whether or not I've been able to give them the tools so that they can build on what they learned in my class, and the tools to analyze the arguments the author is making.

Aarontology: Diogenes: Did you guys have library "class?"

Do they even teach things like the Dewey Decimal system, or how to utilize the different types of libraries resources? Or has that become obsolete?

I did when I was in elementary school, but that soon became obsolete as more and more libraries turned to the Library of Congress system and added more computers.

I worked in my high-school's library. It mostly involved fixing the computers, and this was back in 98-99. No one was checking out books.

Scratch Meany: DAR: Government and Big business aren't the only ones who don't understand just much the Internet is changing the way we live our lives.

Here's another example, Colleges and Universities.

Why should we waste years of study (and money) when I can get any information on any subject instantly at the touch of a button?

Learn what you need as you need it. Too easy.

Well, you do need someone "in the know" on the particular subject to generate the original information.

So much of THIS.

The intertubes are a fine place to look things up, and much more quickly than a traditional dictionary. But, all that content has to come from somewhere, that's still going to require study.

Technology does a fine job of teaching you how to run the register at McDonalds, but the best (and in many ways, most important) jobs won't be going that way any time soon. Your brain surgeon will be from a college...not some kid playing Brain Surgeon 3 in his mom's basement.

We've always been at war with Iraq.

Diogenes: Well, my answer would be continuity and context, meaning and fact.

Sure, but don't forget omission and distortion. The current educational system in America is an institution that for the most part churns out obedient compliant wage slaves.

A university degree accompanied by a large debt equals a modern slave, the worst form of slavery really because they actually think they are free and even arrange their own accomodations requiring zero overhead from the slavemaster. Its pure genious and that is what a very expensive education will tell you, just ask Bill clinton!

It wasn't always like this in America though.

Uncle Pim: Aarontology: I think that's one of the biggest problems with education in general. Right now, pretty much anything you could ever need to know is accessible at the press of a single button yet they want us to learn by rote memorization and test us as such.


While that's generally true for empirical knowledge, artistic skills and even advanced mathematical/statistical skills cannot be learned at the touch of a button. Also, practical experience in a particular field is irreplaceable when you don't have time to go look something up.

/End thread jack

I'm a lawyer. My education consisted of learning (a) what question I should be asking, and (b) where, in the vast collection of information which we collectively call "the law," I would find the answer to my question. My education could not be replaced by the Internet, any more than it could previously have been replaced by the law library - my education consisted of practice and pedagogical guidance.

Several of my best friends are engineers, and they confirm that the same is true of their field.

buenohead: We've always been at war with Iraq. Iran.

doubleplus fixedthatforyougood

Zasteva: We have always been at war with Eastasia

You are correct, citizen. We have never been at war with Eastasia.

BMulligan: Several of my best friends are engineers, and they confirm that the same is true of their field.

It's true of the practice of engineering, but I don't know if it's universally true in engineering education. There's still an awful lot of "memorize a ton of special-purpose formulae for the test." Hell, I remember taking software tests where we wrote out code by hand because using anything like a modern editor (by 1990s standards, even) would have given you too much "help" looking up syntax and API calls.

They just had to make one correction to the lists:

Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunters.

Being Famous Sucks: chocolate



Do not listen to that gentleman! The chocolate is rich and delicious! With those little crispy things inside so when you bite it you get a delicious mix of crunch and sweet. You know? Man I love those things.

Weaver95: The problem with altering the past is that google cache remembers the alterations.

That's because Google is an ebil, librul, America-hating, terrist-loving, godless, ghey company that wants all "Real Americans™" from the good and god-fearing parts of America (the "Shining Beacon of Light™" in the dark of jihadi and commie ebil) destroyed. They probably put that flaming crap in a bag on your porch, that you stomped on to put out, too.

SkinnyHead: Costa Rica and Angola removed from the list? Well that changes everything.

..and two full lists.
It goes against the policies the Administration said it was adhering to (the whole "notate every change we make" thing).