We were everywhere today. It was awesome. I am currently editing my film from the D.C. march. The police could not have been kinder and more helpful. Aside from the rain (and if I hadn't been carrying a Canon XH A1 my office picked up yesterday and was terrified of ruining it, I would have loved the rain, too) it was a perfect day.

Good for them, since many of the proposition's financial supporters were from out of state it only makes sense that backlash would appear outside of California as well.

If they can export hate we can export anger.

Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

for the same reason all the Mormons in Utah pumped money into the Calif initiative. Because they can.

SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

They're probably protesting that the Mormons are responsible for the passage of Prop 8. Remember, this is WBC country, not Mormon country.

/dnrtfa

There were protests here in New Mexico, leading some people to imagine that gay marriage might be coming here soon. No one suggested that perhaps these protests are mostly being made by people who hope all the gays will move to California.

/Not that there's anything right with that.

Why not? Prop 8 had financial support from bigots across the nation.

I looked at this link (new window) the other day...amazing how much money for Prop 8 came from out of state.

Fred Phelps must be weeping in his bunker.

Right on! I would have joined in if I had known about it. It would be nice if there was something like that up here in the KC area.

SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

Why should a preacher in Georgia give a shiat about who can or can't ride a bus in Alabama?

They shared the sidewalk with a small group from the Rev. Fred Phelp's Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, who were protesting the protest, but there was no conflict between the two groups.

Okay, I was wrong about that.

TFA doesn't really give too many details, just that some folks were protesting Prop 8, and that WBC was protesting them.

TheOther: Fred Phelps must be weeping in his bunker.

I wish. He had a counter protest. I wish the vengeful, spiteful God he believes in would just take him already.

This happened all over the country, actually. But good for Kansans.

dameron: SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

Why should a preacher in Georgia give a shiat about who can or can't ride a bus in Alabama?

It was in damn near every city. I encourage everyone to go over to Andrew Sullivan and see all the reports.

DamnYankees: It was in damn near every city. I encourage everyone to go over to Andrew Sullivan and see all the reports.

Link?

and creating a nuisance: Right on! I would have joined in if I had known about it. It would be nice if there was something like that up here in the KC area.

I think there was. jointheimpact.com was the sponsor for the protest.

and creating a nuisance: Link?

Go to www.google.com.

Enter:

Andrew Sullivan

in the search box.

Click on the "Google Search" box.

Wait until it returns the search results then click on the very first link.

DamnYankees: It was in damn near every city. I encourage everyone to go over to Andrew Sullivan and see all the reports.

From the DC protest:

As a straight man, and a lifelong Republican (until the Palin pick), I was rare company at the DC Prop. 8 protest. I went because discriminating against homosexual marriages isn't just wrong, it's ridiculous.

Walking through the crowd in front of the US Capitol, I was nearly moved to tears. To look into the faces of so many people and realizing that their lives felt incomplete, that they were told by our government and by many in our society that they are somehow less than human, that they do not deserve the same rights as everyone else, was nothing short of depressing.

This was my first protest march ever; yet, through the cold rain of a November Saturday, for far longer than I'd walk on any other day, in the company of people with little in common with me, I felt completely fulfilled. The protesters felt like family.

Awesome :)

and creating a nuisance: DamnYankees: It was in damn near every city. I encourage everyone to go over to Andrew Sullivan and see all the reports.

Link?

Link (new window)

Just read over the whole day. He posted from tons of different ones.

The best one, which is basically how I feel:

I'm not gay. I don't have gay friends or family. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about civil rights.

I attended the rally in Portland, ME (no pictures, sorry) with my wife and 4 year old son. A lovely older gay woman in the crowd thanked me for coming, and I thanked her right back. I don't support gay marriage as a favor to gays, and I'm not owned anything for fighting discrimination. We don't--we shouldn't--need to rely on gays, on friends and families of gays, to ensure equal rights for all Americans.

I've got no special affinity for the gay community, but I'm an American and a patriot: I've got a special affinity for my fellow Americans. I'll be damned if I acquiesce to such shameful hate and discrimination.

DamnYankees: The best one, which is basically how I feel:

I love you. In a totally platonic way, of course. :)

I too believe in equality for all.
I want to be able to marry two women at the same time.
But marriage is defined as "one man and one woman".
It's not fair that I am being discriminated against.

dewars-rocks: I too believe in equality for all.
I want to be able to marry two women at the same time.
But marriage is defined as "one man and one woman".
It's not fair that I am being discriminated against.

If there was no impact on the legal system by letting you marry two people, I'd be happy to support you.

and creating a nuisance: Right on! I would have joined in if I had known about it. It would be nice if there was something like that up here in the KC area.

I think there was a protest at the Plaza today.

linked from Mercury

Down the street from me in Portland.

I'm against marriage in general, but if people must be legally allowed to marry, that should include gay people.

Gay marriage doesn't destroy traditional marriage. Traditional marriage destroys traditional marriage. Witness the 60 percent failure rate. It's an institution that was created when the average lifespan was about 30. Guess what? Technology has improved, lifespan has increased. People get bored of the same thing over time. Would gay marriage improve traditional marriage's success rate? No, but it wouldn't diminish it.

DamnYankees: The best one, which is basically how I feel:

I'm not gay. I don't have gay friends or family. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about civil rights.

I attended the rally in Portland, ME (no pictures, sorry) with my wife and 4 year old son. A lovely older gay woman in the crowd thanked me for coming, and I thanked her right back. I don't support gay marriage as a favor to gays, and I'm not owned anything for fighting discrimination. We don't--we shouldn't--need to rely on gays, on friends and families of gays, to ensure equal rights for all Americans.

I've got no special affinity for the gay community, but I'm an American and a patriot: I've got a special affinity for my fellow Americans. I'll be damned if I acquiesce to such shameful hate and discrimination.

Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

To place Prop 8 on the same level as Black Civil Rights is a travesty imho. To call someone a biggot for wanting to hold on to a time honored piece of their tradition when none of your rights are being infringed upon is just spiteful, and then to compare the struggle to abscond the word to the fight of blacks - are you truly surprised that the majority does not support your position.

/Hey, I realize it's just a word and therefore my argument is just as silly, but there's something to be said for time honored tradition, and I think you'd garner far more support if you tossed us Heterosexuals that one bone. Really, just leave us the word and I'll personally protest to make sure civil unions afford the same rights.

CanisNoir: Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

If the only - only - difference is the word, then what is the point in keeping it separate other than as a market of inferiority?

CanisNoir: To place Prop 8 on the same level as Black Civil Rights is a travesty imho.

Please explain to me how the fight for gay marriage is different form the fight for interracial marriage.

DamnYankees: Please explain to me how the fight for gay marriage is different form the fight for interracial marriage.

$5 on "Gay is a choice!" You'll have to quote him, though, as I long ago gave up on everyone's favorite WHARRGARBLing dog.

Occam's Chainsaw: DamnYankees: Please explain to me how the fight for gay marriage is different form the fight for interracial marriage.

$5 on "Gay is a choice!" You'll have to quote him, though, as I long ago gave up on everyone's favorite WHARRGARBLing dog.

I don't ignore him because he's one of the few conservatives I actually think believes it. I only block people I think are trolls.

CanisNoir: Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

If its just a word whats the issue then?

/separate but equal - didn't we try that before?

CanisNoir: tossed us Heterosexuals that one bone.

Ahem. LOL.

Why does the state have jurisdiction over marriage? Marriage is a religious institution.


/Let gays marry.

DamnYankees: I don't ignore him because he's one of the few conservatives I actually think believes it. I only block people I think are trolls.

Every time he gets clubbed with logic, he falls back on ideology and insults. I'm not wasting my time on that. (Yeah, I know, the whole concept of this site is time wasting. I'm efficient in my time wasting, dammit!)

There was a protest in front of the CNN building in Hollywood last night. TONS of people honking their horns in solidarity, and I thought, "with this kind of support, how did the No on 8 movement fail?" Then I remembered that, outside of SF and LA, there are huge geographical chunks of mouthbreathers in California *especially when youget way up north or way down south). It was a sobering realization.

Occam's Chainsaw: DamnYankees: I don't ignore him because he's one of the few conservatives I actually think believes it. I only block people I think are trolls.

Every time he gets clubbed with logic, he falls back on ideology and insults. I'm not wasting my time on that. (Yeah, I know, the whole concept of this site is time wasting. I'm efficient in my time wasting, dammit!)

I don't disagree. But that's doesn't make him a troll.

Kansas actually used to be a hotbed for socially radical ideas back in the day. Especially with the Populist movement of the late 1800's.

Not saying supporting gay rights is socially radical, I'm just saying that... um. wait... what the hell was my point?

CanisNoir: Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

To place Prop 8 on the same level as Black Civil Rights is a travesty imho. To call someone a biggot for wanting to hold on to a time honored piece of their tradition when none of your rights are being infringed upon is just spiteful, and then to compare the struggle to abscond the word to the fight of blacks - are you truly surprised that the majority does not support your position.

/Hey, I realize it's just a word and therefore my argument is just as silly, but there's something to be said for time honored tradition, and I think you'd garner far more support if you tossed us Heterosexuals that one bone. Really, just leave us the word and I'll personally protest to make sure civil unions afford the same rights.

Oh man. I'm having flashbacks to that "Just a word/separate but equal" infinite loop from earlier in the week.

Is the fight for same-sex marriage the same or similar to the fight for civil rights? I don't know and I don't care. It's just a red herring. Here's the thing: Americans don't own the monopoly on marriage, the word and the institution. Neither do religious groups. Marriage has existed in all societies for millenniums. It's just preposterous that, right now, homosexual couples are joining in the exact same type of union that hetero couples have been doing for generations, but it needs to be called different. Something about it looking like a duck, walking like a duck, and sounding like a duck?

And to argue anything on the grounds of tradition is ridiculous. We've never progressed as a society by settling for "tradition" when a better development is right around the corner.

In sum: get over it, people. At the very least, your divorce rate numbers would improve by letting some real committed couples marry.

SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

Because it's a wake-up call for everyone who cares about equal rights and about Constitutional protections for minority groups.

Go Americans! There was actually a very small protest here in Vancouver. I didn't go, instead I went out for lunch... I feel a little guilty about that now because it was not well attended. But I know exactly why it wasn't a big rally. We are 100% in solidarity, but Canadians already won this fight. I voted, I wrote letters to MPs and the Prime Minister, I donated money, I went to rallies, made signs, followed years of court cases and the nailbiting run-up to the final Parliamentary vote, and I saw one of the final obstacles to legal civil rights equality fall here in Canada. And it was an amazing feeling both for gay people and for so many straight people who were justified in being proud of their country as well, for being a place where equality is celebrated.

I am worried about all of the LGBT/queer/same-gender-loving folks in the States. I hope this fight achieves something concrete in terms of organization to lobby hard at the local, state and federal level and to challenge discriminatory laws. Gay people still aren't officially allowed in the military. There is no protection at the national level for gay people as a class, for employer non-discrimination, for example, so in many places you can be fired for being gay or transgendered. There are bans on gay people adopting children... wtf! The homophobia in some parts of society seems so profound in America, and there need to be laws against hate crimes committed against queer and transgendered people, just like there are laws against hate crimes related to race or religion. There needs to be recognition that gay people are citizens who deserve the same civil rights, and that American gay families deserve the same treatment as American straight families.

This is hotlinked from Bilerico Project:


Can anyone honestly come up with a reason why this family should be discriminated against legally? Don't let them get married in your church, fine. Why make them second-class citizens?

Also, awesometacular comedienne Wanda Sykes officially came out today. She was kind of glass-closeted, but apparently she got married two weeks ago.

CanisNoir: DamnYankees: The best one, which is basically how I feel:

I'm not gay. I don't have gay friends or family. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about civil rights.

I attended the rally in Portland, ME (no pictures, sorry) with my wife and 4 year old son. A lovely older gay woman in the crowd thanked me for coming, and I thanked her right back. I don't support gay marriage as a favor to gays, and I'm not owned anything for fighting discrimination. We don't--we shouldn't--need to rely on gays, on friends and families of gays, to ensure equal rights for all Americans.

I've got no special affinity for the gay community, but I'm an American and a patriot: I've got a special affinity for my fellow Americans. I'll be damned if I acquiesce to such shameful hate and discrimination.

Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

To place Prop 8 on the same level as Black Civil Rights is a travesty imho. To call someone a biggot for wanting to hold on to a time honored piece of their tradition when none of your rights are being infringed upon is just spiteful, and then to compare the struggle to abscond the word to the fight of blacks - are you truly surprised that the majority does not support your position.

/Hey, I realize it's just a word and therefore my argument is just as silly, but there's something to be said for time honored tradition, and I think you'd garner far more support if you tossed us Heterosexuals that one bone. Really, just leave us the word and I'll personally protest to make sure civil unions afford the same rights.

Hmm, so, separate but equal? Is that what you are trying to say?

The civil rights comparison isn't apt because gay marriage is about redefining what a traditional marriage and family is all about. Is homosexuality a choice? I don't know, and neither does anyone else, at least not with absolute certainty. The color of your skin however is clearly not something people choose. The argument about the high divorce rate tarnishing the sacrament of marriage doesn't hold up either. Yes, there are a lot of Divorces in this country, but the solution is not to just declare it all to be an out of date institution, the solution is to begin to solve all the problems that lead to arbitrary marriage and divorce.

SkinnyHead: Why were people in Kansas protesting the California constitution banning gay marriage, when their own Kansas Constitution bans gay marriage too? Shouldn't they be protesting their own constitution instead?

1.5/10

spman: The civil rights comparison isn't apt because gay marriage is about redefining what a traditional marriage and family is all about.

WRONG.

Equal protection under the law. Next?

TheOther: Fred Phelps must be weeping in his bunker.

Why don't you guys do something really useful and worthwhile, and go gang-rape that bastard? We'll all give you solid alibis. I will swear on my mother's head you were with me the whole time.

Make him squeal like a pig.

Occam's Chainsaw: spman: The civil rights comparison isn't apt because gay marriage is about redefining what a traditional marriage and family is all about.

WRONG.

Equal protection under the law. Next?

There's no law that says gay people have the right to get married. Maybe once we get the homosexual equivalent of Loving vs Virginia we can talk. Defense of Marriage Act FTW.

CanisNoir: DamnYankees: The best one, which is basically how I feel:

I'm not gay. I don't have gay friends or family. This isn't about homosexuality. This is about civil rights.

I attended the rally in Portland, ME (no pictures, sorry) with my wife and 4 year old son. A lovely older gay woman in the crowd thanked me for coming, and I thanked her right back. I don't support gay marriage as a favor to gays, and I'm not owned anything for fighting discrimination. We don't--we shouldn't--need to rely on gays, on friends and families of gays, to ensure equal rights for all Americans.

I've got no special affinity for the gay community, but I'm an American and a patriot: I've got a special affinity for my fellow Americans. I'll be damned if I acquiesce to such shameful hate and discrimination.

Except it's not about discrimination or civil rights, it's about a word. California civil unions afford homosexuals the same rights heterosexuals obtain through marriage. They just want the word; so while I applaud their right to protest, I completely disagree with them.

To place Prop 8 on the same level as Black Civil Rights is a travesty imho. To call someone a biggot for wanting to hold on to a time honored piece of their tradition when none of your rights are being infringed upon is just spiteful, and then to compare the struggle to abscond the word to the fight of blacks - are you truly surprised that the majority does not support your position.

/Hey, I realize it's just a word and therefore my argument is just as silly, but there's something to be said for time honored tradition, and I think you'd garner far more support if you tossed us Heterosexuals that one bone. Really, just leave us the word and I'll personally protest to make sure civil unions afford the same rights.

If you legitimize gay marriage then you legitimize homosexuality. The marriage nonsense is something shiny to distract people, for the most part. And that in a word, is what it's about.

spman: There's no law that says gay people have the right to get married.

Ya. That's the problem.

spman: There's no law that says gay people have the right to get married.

If there is a law that says that any person can get married, it must extend equally to all citizens regardless of sexual preference. One more time for the cheap seats in the back: equal protection under the law. Next?

spman: The civil rights comparison isn't apt because gay marriage is about redefining what a traditional marriage and family is all about.