That's not an execution...THIS is an execution.

Cagey B: That's not an execution...THIS is an execution.

Win.

But while silent on the fate of Mukhlas, Amrozi and Imam Samudra, the Government has been lobbying hard to save the lives of the three Australian men.

Damned George Bush just wont stop!

Can't say I'm surprised, Europe is becoming more and more liberal.

Dear Rest of America,

Where are your universal moral values now, you goddamn cultural imperalists?

Sincerely,

Much of the rest of the developed world

"By being selective in its call for clemency the Government is promoting a two-tiered policy on capital punishment, which inevitably undermines Australia's standing on the issue, and which inevitably has an effect on Australians who are facing the death penalty in Indonesia."

See Australians recongnize the difference between schmuck drug smugglers and terrorists who mass murdered 202 people.

Ha, that was badly done. Started off with Rest of America and ended with "rest of the developed world"... changed perspectives halfway through and it was only four lines long.

/not a liberal troll, just annoyed

Krymson Tyde: Can't say I'm surprised, Europe is becoming more and more liberal.
Ugh I was thinking so hard about how to make a joke in this vein and came up with nothing. Nice one.

"We oppose the death penalty for absolutely everyone, be it Saddam Hussein or be it a 13 year-old Somali girl who is stoned to death for allegedly committing adultery"

I'm one of those loonie Eurpoean liberals you guys are always biatching about and even i can draw a line between those two situations.

Seth'n'Spectrum: Dear Rest of America,

Where are your universal moral values now, you goddamn cultural imperalists?

Sincerely,

Much of the rest of the developed world

Dear Rest of the Developed World,

What is so immoral about executing people who commit mass murder?

Sincerely,

America

p.s. "cultural imperialists"?! HA!! That is some funny shiat!

Krymson Tyde: Can't say I'm surprised, Europe is becoming more and more liberal.

I see a lot of people here on fark thinking Austria is Australia but I think this is the first time I've seen it the other way around.

AFTER letting Indonesia execute Bali bombers

I don't think Indonesia gives a flying fark what Australia thinks.

Subby: Australian government calls for global moratorium on capital punishment - AFTER letting Indonesia execute Bali bombers with no call for clemency

If subby knew anything at all about Aussie politics you'd know that we had a government change from a conservative party AND we also said that we wouldn't meddle in current affairs in other countries (ie specific cases). This is relating to an overview on how countries treat the death penalty. They aren't looking at individual cases.

Subby fails.

12349876: Krymson Tyde: Can't say I'm surprised, Europe is becoming more and more liberal.

I see a lot of people here on fark thinking Austria is Australia but I think this is the first time I've seen it the other way around.

why do people never get the farking sarcasm, let's try to keep up.

Seth'n'Spectrum: Dear Rest of America,

Where are your universal moral values now, you goddamn cultural imperalists?

Sincerely,

Much of the rest of the developed world

Dear Seth'in'SpecialEd,

If you object to the worldwide projection of American culture, perhaps you should discontinue participating in it by finding somewhere other than Fark to rant.

Sincerely,

The only developed part of the world

The thing about the capital punishment issue is that you can't just say "I support the death penalty but only for the really evil ones."

If you accept the need for a death penalty, who actually cops it is only a matter of legislation. The ethical question comes before all that.

By letting Indonesia execute three people and failing to make any plea for clemency on their behalf (and it IS a case that Australia is inextricably linked to, despite political protestations about how "we don't intervene in the case of foreign nationals") and then the following day deciding to call for an international moaratorium on capital punishment, the Australian government is paying hypocritical lip service of the highest order.

If you oppose the death penalty, oppose it in all cases. Including a tacit exception for dirty stinking terrorists undermines the basic ethical principal behind opposing capital punishment in the first place.

/rant
//not a statement of my position on the death penalty, just a rave against hypocrisy.

I consider it abhorent for a country to allow the murder of unborn babies, yet not excute those who rape, and murder.

A wise man once said:
Live and let live. Anybody that can't handle that, take them out back and shoot the motherfarker

Dear Rest of the Developed World,

What is so immoral about executing people who commit mass murder?

Sincerely,

America

Because you can only kill him once. If alive, you can make him eat shiat for the rest of his life.

give me doughnuts: Dear Rest of the Developed World,

What is so immoral about executing people who commit mass murder?

Sincerely,

America

p.s. "cultural imperialists"?! HA!! That is some funny shiat!

Yeah, I subscribe to Gramsci, although not in full by any means.
Executing people is immoral because life is inherently sacred and the right to execute our enemies is only valid in a primitive state in which we have no other way to constrain them. Given the invention of maximum security prisons, it is no longer excusable to execute someone to prevent them from committing future crimes. If we seek to kill others for vengeance, we concede to our basest emotions and reject that most basic and crucial of human capabilities, empathy for the powerless, even the evil powerless. Just for a second, use your imagination in imagine being strapped down to a table while some guy injects you with organ-destroying liquids, the victim of the slow death, someone else's 'catharsis'. It makes me shiver to think society can give legitimacy to such an evil, whether in the name of justice or whatever.

/just my two cents. gonna go find me a unicorn now

Veritas: and then the following day deciding to call for an international moaratorium on capital punishment, the Australian government

In the article, it is Amnesty International who is opposing the death penalty, not the Australian government.

snuff3r: If subby knew anything at all about Aussie politics you'd know that we had a government change from a conservative party AND we also said that we wouldn't meddle in current affairs in other countries (ie specific cases). This is relating to an overview on how countries treat the death penalty. They aren't looking at individual cases.

Subby fails.

Neither the Libs nor Labor made any attempts to appeal to Indonesia for clemency over the Bali bombers. Yet both have spoken loudly about their desire to have the death sentence for the Bali Nine commuted to a prison term.

Although, as someone has already said, I doubt Indonesia would give a flying fark at a rolling donut what Australia thinks. But they could have at least TRIED. Would have shown a little more consistency and credibility in my opinion.

Saying they won't intervene for "specific" cases sounds like a cop-out to me. You either think the death penalty is ethically wrong or ethically permissible, the rest is only a matter of degree.

Listen up Aussies, because I am only going to say this once.

If you are going to let guys like Fritzl live out their lives in cells that are more comfortable than some apartments and expect us not to give you shiat for it, then you need to shut up when we handle things the way they have been handled since the birth of civilization. Capital punishment is part of the bible and will continue to be part of American society, regardless of which countries find it uncivilized.

/It is easy to be against the death penalty until someone close to you is murdered.
//Wish Old-Sparky was still runnin down here in Florida.

By letting Indonesia execute three people and failing to make any plea for clemency on their behalf and then the following day deciding to call for an international moaratorium on capital punishment, the Australian government is paying hypocritical lip service of the highest order.

That's definitely true but this Bali bomber stuff has been going on in the media for six years. There's no need for the government to grandstand. Mostly Australians are just glad we don't have to hear about it anymore.

global wombats: In the article, it is Amnesty International who is opposing the death penalty, not the Australian government.

Both sides of Parliament spoke out against the death penalty yesterday.

spamdog: That's definitely true but this Bali bomber stuff has been going on in the media for six years. There's no need for the government to grandstand. Mostly Australians are just glad we don't have to hear about it anymore.

Yeah, I have to agree with you there.

Better to execute murderers than to sentence them to life. Years later, there are always some bleeding heart do-gooders who want to rehabilitate them, say they are old, no longer a danger, can be released.

Not relevant.

Murderers do not deserve to be rehabilitated.
If they are no longer a danger, it doesn't matter. they killed someone, have no right to exist, much less be free.

If the Europeans don't want to execute their precious murderers, they unfortunately have that right. They do not have the right to criticize other countries who do decide to execute their killers.

40oz_A_Knight: If you object to the worldwide projection of American culture, perhaps you should discontinue participating in it by finding somewhere other than Fark to rant.

Actually, my first mini-rant was originally supposed to be against those damned neo-cons who just got their pink slips, the guys who think that they can promote peace by pushing 'universal values' on the rest of the world.

Then I lost focus slightly and the message came out incomplete. This actually happens a lot more frequently then you would be led to expect.

Disagrees.

global wombats: Veritas: and then the following day deciding to call for an international moaratorium on capital punishment, the Australian government

In the article, it is Amnesty International who is opposing the death penalty, not the Australian government.

Like we have time to RTFA? Come on...this is FARK!

Veritas: global wombats: In the article, it is Amnesty International who is opposing the death penalty, not the Australian government.

Both sides of Parliament spoke out against the death penalty yesterday.

Quite right. I should read more internet news.

From The Canberra Times: Australia would lead a new campaign for a global moratorium on capital punishment, Foreign Minister Stephen Smith announced yesterday

You make a valid point, my apologies.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Listen up Aussies, because I am only going to say this once.

If you are going to let guys like Fritzl live out their lives in cells that are more comfortable than some apartments and expect us not to give you shiat for it, then you need to shut up when we handle things the way they have been handled since the birth of civilization. Capital punishment is part of the bible and will continue to be part of American society, regardless of which countries find it uncivilized.

I'm hoping my sarcasm meter is broken, because if it's not you're either pants-on-head retarded or a shining example of the American "education" system.

/maps are your friends

I was in a smallish argument online ( yeah, I didn't even try to win ) with a person who said " any parent would want the death penalty in this case " and so I mentioned that to the Indonesians drug trafficking is as bad as setting bombs, so the three Australians on death row at the moment should be shot as well, and according to her argument, have parents who support the death penalty???????

didn't go down very well :(

danic101: I consider it abhorent for a country to allow the murder of unborn babies, yet not excute those who rape, and murder.

So if we kill rapists and murderers, abortion is OK, right?

Yeah, I thought not. Don't you have a clinic to bomb somewhere?

Seth'n'Spectrum: Dear Rest of America,

Where are your universal moral values now, you goddamn cultural imperalists?

Sincerely,

Much of the rest of the developed world

Yeah, because America invented capital punishment.

global wombats: You make a valid point, my apologies.

Nah, it's all good. This is fark. I learned a long time ago not to take anything in here personally :P

/have a beer

Seth'n'Spectrum: give me doughnuts: Dear Rest of the Developed World,

What is so immoral about executing people who commit mass murder?

Sincerely,

America

p.s. "cultural imperialists"?! HA!! That is some funny shiat!

Yeah, I subscribe to Gramsci, although not in full by any means.
Executing people is immoral because life is inherently sacred and the right to execute our enemies is only valid in a primitive state in which we have no other way to constrain them. Given the invention of maximum security prisons, it is no longer excusable to execute someone to prevent them from committing future crimes. If we seek to kill others for vengeance, we concede to our basest emotions and reject that most basic and crucial of human capabilities, empathy for the powerless, even the evil powerless. Just for a second, use your imagination in imagine being strapped down to a table while some guy injects you with organ-destroying liquids, the victim of the slow death, someone else's 'catharsis'. It makes me shiver to think society can give legitimacy to such an evil, whether in the name of justice or whatever.

/just my two cents. gonna go find me a unicorn now

Keep your change. Some acts are so heinous that the perpetrator of said act needs to be removed from ALL human society. What I fear is a society that is too soft and weak to realize that, and which then fails to excise such malignancy.

Also, life is not "inherently sacred." Nothing is.

Veritas: /have a beer

That makes two things you've convinced me of today.

I really don't understand people who vacation to countries that combine draconian punishments for drug trafficking with kangaroo courts. All someone has to do is fiddle with your luggage when you're not watching it (and often they have an associate who will distract you while they do it) and you get executed. Even if you watch your luggage like a hawk, there's no assurances that the drugs won't get planted on the other side of security, by one of the employees - or at customs, by someone fishing for a bribe.

It seems like some Australian or other is always getting in trouble for this in Indonesia, and I just don't believe they're all traffickers (if anything, I'd expect the trafficking to go mostly in the other direction.) Seriously, stop going to that farked-up place. It'll decrease your risk of getting blown up too.

You should've seen the news here when the Bali bombers got executed - top news story on all the TV stations, which they'd harp on at length about, plus front page news. I'm just waiting for the Indonesian government to throw it all back in their faces when they decide to execute the Aussies they've got on Death Row.

Personally I don't think they should've executed the Bali bombers, simply because it gave them the martyrdom that they wanted. They'd killed infidels and been martyred by the government, so now all the fundies have got some spare martyrs to rally behind.

What they should've done is just stuffed the three into cells in maximum security, stamped their files "Never To Be Released," welded the locks shut and forgotten about them. It's a bit hard to be a martyr when you're rotting away in a cell, with no contact with the outside world beyond the guard that occasionally remembers to bring you food, and eventually die of old age, alone and forgotten.

give me doughnuts: Keep your change. Some acts are so heinous that the perpetrator of said act needs to be removed from ALL human society. What I fear is a society that is too soft and weak to realize that, and which then fails to excise such malignancy.

Life in prison can well be described as removal from all human society more or less. Soft and weak might be your way of describing society, I see it more as civilized. I'm all for going after those bastard SOBs and teaching them a lesson about messing with the USA (or Australian tourists in this case), its just a matter of how far do we have to go to make sure they won't do any thing similar again.

To each his own perspective though. Adds flavour to life.

Samsaran: The British had the right idea after the brutal rape and murder of British women and children by Muslims in India in 1857. Beat them almost to death, force them to their knees, have them lick the blood stained cobble stones clean, stuff pork in their mouths, tie them to the mouths of cannon and vaporize them. Do this in full view of the rest of the vermin and watch them soil themselves in fear.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I believe death is a void, so killing someone off puts them out of their misery and isn't much of a punishment. Maximising their lifespan and making it a long life of suffering is a real punishment.

If I had my way, I would have locked the Bali bombers in a poorly maintained pigsty for the rest of their lives. They'd have to eat and sleep around pigs, and walk in pig shiat all day, every day for the rest of their lives. All their meals would contain pork, and be cooked in pork fat so that they can't avoid it or eat around it in any way.

When they eventually died, they would be buried in pig skin bodybags.

Cruel and unusual? Meh. Some people deserve it.

That's one of the reason's we go to Jamaica. Very laid back security. The first time we went they looked through my hat. She smiled when I gave her a puzzled look. I think she realized it would be dumb to smuggle weed into the country. I was suprised that the US customs was so chilled out when we came back.

Indonesia and Dubai are pretty much off the list of places to go. There are so many places that don't jail people for 5 years for having a speck of weed on the bottom of their shoe.

Fark this - they should e investigating the source of The Bloop. A creature bigger than a Blue Whale?

Huskadoodle: But while silent on the fate of Mukhlas, Amrozi and Imam Samudra, the Government has been lobbying hard to save the lives of the three Australian men.

Damned George Bush just wont stop!

Funny how that works. We'll save OUR guys...their guys can be dismembered by rabid weasels for all we care.

Melgania: Samsaran: The British had the right idea after the brutal rape and murder of British women and children by Muslims in India in 1857. Beat them almost to death, force them to their knees, have them lick the blood stained cobble stones clean, stuff pork in their mouths, tie them to the mouths of cannon and vaporize them. Do this in full view of the rest of the vermin and watch them soil themselves in fear.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I believe death is a void, so killing someone off puts them out of their misery and isn't much of a punishment. Maximising their lifespan and making it a long life of suffering is a real punishment.

If I had my way, I would have locked the Bali bombers in a poorly maintained pigsty for the rest of their lives. They'd have to eat and sleep around pigs, and walk in pig shiat all day, every day for the rest of their lives. All their meals would contain pork, and be cooked in pork fat so that they can't avoid it or eat around it in any way.

When they eventually died, they would be buried in pig skin bodybags.

Cruel and unusual? Meh. Some people deserve it.

You forgot the "waterboarding until they denounce Allah. Weekly." part of it. That's important too. Anyone dedicated to an evil ideal to that extent should be forced to repudiate it until they are either positive that their former beliefs are wrong, or they are positive that their own weakness has doomed them eternally.

And make sure their family and friends know. Deterrence is a good thing.

dahmers love zombie: Melgania: Samsaran: The British had the right idea after the brutal rape and murder of British women and children by Muslims in India in 1857. Beat them almost to death, force them to their knees, have them lick the blood stained cobble stones clean, stuff pork in their mouths, tie them to the mouths of cannon and vaporize them. Do this in full view of the rest of the vermin and watch them soil themselves in fear.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I believe death is a void, so killing someone off puts them out of their misery and isn't much of a punishment. Maximising their lifespan and making it a long life of suffering is a real punishment.

If I had my way, I would have locked the Bali bombers in a poorly maintained pigsty for the rest of their lives. They'd have to eat and sleep around pigs, and walk in pig shiat all day, every day for the rest of their lives. All their meals would contain pork, and be cooked in pork fat so that they can't avoid it or eat around it in any way.

When they eventually died, they would be buried in pig skin bodybags.

Cruel and unusual? Meh. Some people deserve it.

You forgot the "waterboarding until they denounce Allah. Weekly." part of it. That's important too. Anyone dedicated to an evil ideal to that extent should be forced to repudiate it until they are either positive that their former beliefs are wrong, or they are positive that their own weakness has doomed them eternally.

And make sure their family and friends know. Deterrence is a good thing.

Ah. So you're saying that devotion to a different religion is evil and wrong, and people should be tortured until they renounce it? Glad to meet you, Grand Inquisitor.

I really only have one problem with capital punishment: What if you're wrong? Humans are fallible. We're weak and stupid and often easily duped and our memories are generally for shiat. Our technology has limits and even that is only good as the person using it. Open and shut cases rarely are. So, again, What if you're wrong? Imprison the wrong man and you can let him out. You can apologize and try to recompensate him for the years he's lost. If you execute that man, well, what if you're wrong?

Manservent_Hecubus: I really only have one problem with capital punishment: What if you're wrong? Humans are fallible. We're weak and stupid and often easily duped and our memories are generally for shiat. Our technology has limits and even that is only good as the person using it. Open and shut cases rarely are. So, again, What if you're wrong? Imprison the wrong man and you can let him out. You can apologize and try to recompensate him for the years he's lost. If you execute that man, well, what if you're wrong?

Get a priest, shaman, druid, or paladin to resurrect them.

/Duh.

If only there were someplace we could send them instead.

Someplace nice, but not too nice, maybe rustic is a good word for it, cant have them walking back so its got to be isolated by water...but you know someplace big, like not quite a continent but bigger than an island......surrounded by huge sharks would help......

I wonder if we could find a place like that to send them all.....

:-)