When the railroad was built, a few Chinese families settled down the road in the larger community of Havre. Didier noted that she doesn't remember a single minority family that came to town to work on Tiber Dam.

If she remembered the Chinese settling in while they built the railroads, shouldn't she be 172 and not just 72?

I always thought North Dakota was the whitest state in the union. Never seen a black person there that I can remember.

Montana is the "least diverse" but that doesn't make it the "whitest". Five percent are native americans, which is at least twice the national average.

"He's African-American, but the main thing is he's American," Aaberg said.

Well, I guess that quote goes pretty much at the front of the alphabetical list....

FTFA: He clearly remembers the first blacks he ever saw - he was 8 or 9 years old and it was Aunt Jemima Day.

Priceless.

absoluteparanoia: I always thought North Dakota was the whitest state in the union. Never seen a black person there that I can remember.

Montana is the "least diverse" but that doesn't make it the "whitest". Five percent are native americans, which is at least twice the national average.

There's rez native american, and there's todd palin native american. Who makes up the five percent?

ExperianScaresCthulhu: There's rez native american, and there's todd palin native american. Who makes up the five percent?

Have you ever actually been to Montana before?

"He can't do any worse than the mess that we currently have," adds retired elevator manager Tim Campbell, 77.

Well spoken, Tim.

"I'm not a prejudiced individual, he just makes me uneasy. This guy is dangerous. He claims he ain't Muslim, but why would he carry a Muslim name?" said Big Bird Racecar, who got to choose his name when he was five.

I believe Maine is the official whitest state. 96% white or something.

Mugato: "I'm not a prejudiced individual," he said. "He just makes me uneasy. This guy is dangerous. He claims he ain't Muslim, but why would he carry a Muslim name? I just don't feel comfortable with him. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He kept preaching change, but Stalin and Hitler - they preached change, too."

So, in essence... "I'm not prejudiced, but he might be Muslim (based solely on his skin color and name) and that's automatically bad. And YOU KNOW WHO ELSE PREACHED CHANGE?"

Overall that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

I met someone from Iowa once working on the Dean campaign. She friended me on facebook, then asked me why I didn't have any white friends.

I'm glad I live where I live.

puffy999: ExperianScaresCthulhu: There's rez native american, and there's todd palin native american. Who makes up the five percent?

Have you ever actually been to Montana before?

No. I live in the Southwest. There's minority, where minority means suppressed, and minority which means italian or irish.

Are the native americans in Montana 'native american' to those who think of native americans in the way Lela Didier "remembers her son-in-law's family in Indiana asking if he ever saw any Indians in Montana, imagining people with feather headdresses whipping through the open plains on horses", (ie. someone with the facial structure of a sitting bull or crazy horse or tecumseh); or would they be indistinguishable from 'whites' in the rest of the country (ie. Cherokee)?

I guess my question is, when is a minority a minority? or not a minority? When is someone who looks like the majority, honestly a minority?

LordJiro: So, in essence... "I'm not prejudiced, but he might be Muslim (based solely on his skin color and name)

Love how you injected race into his statement. LOVE IT. RACEBAITING ROCKS!

"I have two stepchildren. They're half Swedish and half Norwegian. They're see through."
--Cathy Ladman

Zywiec: I believe Maine is the official whitest state. 96% white or something.

Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire are the three whitest.

krelborne: LordJiro: So, in essence... "I'm not prejudiced, but he might be Muslim (based solely on his skin color and name)

Love how you injected race into his statement. LOVE IT. RACEBAITING ROCKS!

Right, it was LordJiro that injected race into that statement. Come on down to reality, it's a nice place.

abb3w: "He's African-American, but the main thing is he's American," Aaberg said.

Well, I guess that quote goes pretty much at the front of the alphabetical list....

I don't know. I could vote for this situation as well:

Since then, Catalina Carlon and her family moved to town.

Carlon grew up in New York and spent much of her life in California before deciding to move to a small town in Montana so her three youngest kids could play in the park without her worrying about them. Her son, George, is a junior at Chester High School. He is the only black student there. Her twin daughters go to school down the road at North Star.

.....Like most people in Liberty County, Carlon voted for Republican John McCain for president, saying Obama was too much of an unknown.

There's a lot missing from this story, starting with 'Where's the Carlon father?' I don't expect every black to have voted for Obama. But I do expect those who don't to have more to say than 'he's too much of an unknown' (just as I expect blacks who did vote for Obama to have more to say than 'he's black'). She could have said she's pro-life, or that she didn't like his stance on assault rifles, or that she preferred McCain because she approved of his efforts reaching across the aisle, or that she is impressed by McCain's achievements. But to say 'Obama is an unknown' sounds too much like coded speak for 'he's a n----r' and 'he's an ay-rab' and 'he's a socialist'.

Beyond that, I find that frightening to hear from a woman who works at the town newspaper, as is written of Ms. Carlon. If the people at a town's newspaper can't be counted upon to be more informed than the town itself, and to try to educate the town.............. then what's the point of a town newspaper?

So, is this woman a 'self-hater who tries too hard' of the Clarence Thomas school of closing-the-door-behind-me; or was she lying to the article writer to keep the peace and her place in town?

Diversity is farking retarded. I sort of get sick of people spouting the need for diversity so that you get "different perspectives" as though minorities automatically have a fundamentally different perspective on things simply because they're a minority. THAT, in my view, is racism. My brother-in-law is Mexican, and we typically have a very, very similar perspective and view on things. I have more in common with him in terms of perspective than I do my white brother.

Racial relations should be about focusing on common ground, not about what makes us different.

krelborne: LordJiro: So, in essence... "I'm not prejudiced, but he might be Muslim (based solely on his skin color and name)

Love how you injected race into his statement. LOVE IT. RACEBAITING ROCKS!

Read the article. Then realize how stupid your statement looks.

Dead Farker Walken: My brother-in-law is Mexican, and we typically have a very, very similar perspective and view on things. I have more in common with him in terms of perspective than I do my white brother.

Then why do you differentiate yourself and your brother as 'white' versus 'Mexican' in the first place? Would you have said the same if your sister had married an Italian, or an Irishman, or a Swede? Are you only comfortable with your 'Mexican' brother in law, as long as you feel he is 'as white' as you are?

Have you ever asked him about the Mexican experience? Do you share a similar perspective and view on things regarding that? Has he ever discussed his take on 'the white experience' -- or have you discussed it with him?

Or are you able to live in a world where you can assume that most people think as you do, and anybody else has to get in line with how you think or else they're trouble makers? (there's common ground, and there's assimilation, basically.)

Or is something else happening there, and I'm not reading you properly? I look forward to reading.

I felt better about Montana at the start of the article, then the nutburgers came out. Lousy party-firsters

Outside of one facepalm-inducer (see Boobies) that was honestly pretty mild compared to the insanity we see going around, that was an interesting read. Almost no signs of the vitriol or hate that we see spewing from hard-right elements elsewhere.

If I had to reduce it to one sentence, I'd pick "With the election over, he's willing to give Obama a chance, but he has concerns." What more can you ask for?

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Then why do you differentiate yourself and your brother as 'white' versus 'Mexican' in the first place? Would you have said the same if your sister had married an Italian, or an Irishman, or a Swede? Are you only comfortable with your 'Mexican' brother in law, as long as you feel he is 'as white' as you are?

Have you ever asked him about the Mexican experience? Do you share a similar perspective and view on things regarding that? Has he ever discussed his take on 'the white experience' -- or have you discussed it with him?

Or are you able to live in a world where you can assume that most people think as you do, and anybody else has to get in line with how you think or else they're trouble makers? (there's common ground, and there's assimilation, basically.)

Or is something else happening there, and I'm not reading you properly? I look forward to reading.

Could you be more of a smug, verbose pseudo-intellectual?

what is it old racist white people mean when they say the blacks will take over? Like, take over the local post office? Force you into slavery? What is meant by this? "The blacks will take over" is such a funny thing to say. It is so bereft of any specific meaning. It sounds just like the meaningless gibberish five year olds say.

Mugato: "I'm not a prejudiced individual," he said. "He just makes me uneasy. This guy is dangerous. He claims he ain't Muslim, but why would he carry a Muslim name? I just don't feel comfortable with him. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He kept preaching change, but Stalin and Hitler - they preached change, too."

Whitey Why'd he say that?

erik-k: Almost no signs of the vitriol or hate that we see spewing from hard-right elements elsewhere.

For the most part they could probably care less about what goes on in D.C. as long as the wheat subsidies come in every year and nobody tries to stop them from hunting and fishing. I say, "for the most part" because like just about anywhere you're going to have your crazies like the Montana Freemen and the Ted Kaczinskis running around making everyone else look bad.

depmode98: what is it old racist white people mean when they say the blacks will take over?

They might start sitting in the front of the bus and eating at the counter at restaurants...The horror! Who do these uppity negroids think they are?

I would just like President elect Obama to refer to himself as an American. If he wants to point out his color, that's fine. He is a black American, brown American or an American of color if he so chooses. He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country they were not born in and most have never even been to?

Bring-out-your-dead: He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country they were not born in and most have never even been to?

Look, Ms. Palin: we've tried to explain this to you. Africa is not a country.

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Then why do you differentiate yourself and your brother as 'white' versus 'Mexican' in the first place? Would you have said the same if your sister had married an Italian, or an Irishman, or a Swede? Are you only comfortable with your 'Mexican' brother in law, as long as you feel he is 'as white' as you are?

For the sake of putting things in a context. Why do you assume my sister married someone? Why don't you assume he's my brother-in-law through my own marriage? What makes you think I feel he acts 'white'? Maybe he feels I'm Mexican? Maybe I'm a white person who lived in Mexico? You need to take a nice, long look at the assumptions you make based on the information you have because you've run in the wrong direction with it.


Have you ever asked him about the Mexican experience? Do you share a similar perspective and view on things regarding that? Has he ever discussed his take on 'the white experience' -- or have you discussed it with him?

Again, you're assuming that because he's Mexican he automatically had a fundamentally different experience as me. What if we grew up in the same neighborhood, went to the same school, and our families had relatively similar income levels? What if we were raised in the same environment? This is the kind of racist thinking I have a problem with. You make an assumption that his experience MUST be different merely because his ethnicity is.


Or are you able to live in a world where you can assume that most people think as you do, and anybody else has to get in line with how you think or else they're trouble makers? (there's common ground, and there's assimilation, basically.)


There's a difference between seeking out common ground as opposed to putting up hollow barriers between people. Two people can have entirely different ethnicities but similar perspectives, personalities, and experiences.

Shaggy_C: Bring-out-your-dead: He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country they were not born in and most have never even been to?

Look, Ms. Palin: we've tried to explain this to you. Africa is not a country.

Thread over.

Shaggy_C: Bring-out-your-dead: He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country continent they were not born in and most have never even been to?

Look, Ms. Palin: we've tried to explain this to you. Africa is not a country.

Thanks Shaggy. got on my soapbox too quickly.

Try asking them how they would feel about a Native American candidate. I've been to Montana. Heard a lot of jokes about "the natives."

Montana killed my grandfather, so they can go fark themselves anyway.

Bring-out-your-dead: I would just like President elect Obama to refer to himself as an American. If he wants to point out his color, that's fine. He is a black American, brown American or an American of color if he so chooses. He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country they were not born in and most have never even been to?

I don't think he's ever referred to himself as such. Its the media who makes this a big deal. I actually think his story is more a testament to the immigrant community. HIs father wasn't an African-American in the sense that he wasn't part of the long history of American blacks in terms of slavery and civil rights.

My father is a Brazilian born immigrant who moved here and married my white mother. I actually feel like I share more with Obama's story. But hey, that's not what's important.

While I understand its a huge deal that a man of African decent won the White House, I think the media has allowed it to distract from the real reason why this is historic. Because the candidate of the middle and lower class, of ending the war in Iraq, and of hope won over the politics of fear of the last eight years.

Americans, white, black, spanish, jewish... I don't care, will remember this forever not because Obama is black, but because this was the night they won their country black.

Peter von Nostrand: Right, it was LordJiro that injected race into that statement.

Yes, it was. Muslim is not a race.

Dead Farker Walken: Diversity is farking retarded. I sort of get sick of people spouting the need for diversity so that you get "different perspectives" as though minorities automatically have a fundamentally different perspective on things simply because they're a minority. THAT, in my view, is racism. My brother-in-law is Mexican, and we typically have a very, very similar perspective and view on things. I have more in common with him in terms of perspective than I do my white brother.

Yep.

The other day I read an issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education devoted solely to diversity (The Chronicle is a liberal uber-elite publication). The articles in it were downright offensive and racist.

My favorite was a piece where a columnist discussed problems with diversity. He told the story of a Middle-Eastern guy who applied for a tenure position at a university. The faculty agreed he's perfect for the job, except for one problem. They considered him white. So on that basis alone, they voted to not hire him.

The columnist felt the fix for this racist problem was more racism. The recommended solution was to consider Middle Eastern people non-white, so they can get these diversity jobs.

RevMercutio: Read the article. Then realize how stupid your statement looks.

I read the article. I was talking about his stupid comment.

I used to live in Norway.

They found sausages amusing and charged you $8 for a beer.

kitryne:
Could you be more of a smug, verbose pseudo-intellectual?

Probably.

You made a set of comments relating to diversity and Dead Farker Walken's opinion that diversity is irrelevant and unnecessary. I asked him a set of questions relating to your opinion, because he came across a certain way (negative)(plus insular) in making such a statement and illustrating it with his comfort level with his 'Mexican' brother-in-law versus his 'white' brother.

I wonder what his 'mexican' brother-in-law says about him behind his back. But I don't know. I also don't know what Dead says about his brother-in-law on those occasions when his brother-in-law steps out of 'he's not like the others' mode. Or why he feels distant from his 'white' brother. Or even if that is how Dead operates inside his own head, if that's how he meant to come across. I look forward to reading Dead's story.

Do you have any anecdotes regarding why you agree with Dead Farker Walken that diversity is irrelevant and unnecessary? Or why you disagree (as I do) with him?

krelborne: Yes, it was. Muslim is not a race.

I get that. Obviously you don't get the implied sentiments. Oh, well. Ignorance, willful or not, is bliss.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Probably.

Wow, nailed it. Bravo. _{golf clap}

ExperianScaresCthulhu:
Probably

I find your meatloaf shallow and pedantic.

ExperianScaresCthulhu: kitryne:
Could you be more of a smug, verbose pseudo-intellectual?

Probably.

You made a set of comments relating to diversity and Dead Farker Walken's opinion that diversity is irrelevant and unnecessary. I asked him a set of questions relating to your opinion, because he came across a certain way (negative)(plus insular) in making such a statement and illustrating it with his comfort level with his 'Mexican' brother-in-law versus his 'white' brother.

I wonder what his 'mexican' brother-in-law says about him behind his back. But I don't know. I also don't know what Dead says about his brother-in-law on those occasions when his brother-in-law steps out of 'he's not like the others' mode. Or why he feels distant from his 'white' brother. Or even if that is how Dead operates inside his own head, if that's how he meant to come across. I look forward to reading Dead's story.

Do you have any anecdotes regarding why you agree with Dead Farker Walken that diversity is irrelevant and unnecessary? Or why you disagree (as I do) with him?

I notice you continue to make assumptions based on absolutely zero evidence. Would you please stop making assumptions about my personal life and spouting them off as absolute truth without first considering what I've told you? When you rant aimlessly based on nothing and try to appear smart you look like a total jackass.

White Americans play major role in electing the first black president
Race proves to be no discernible handicap, even among the small-town, working-class whites who were considered most resistant to Obama.


But if election polling showed anything about attitudes on race, it may have been about Americans' quickness to ascribe racial motives; to some extent, they blame racism more than they actually act on it -- or at least, vote on it. In a New York Times-CBS News poll conducted in late October, Obama supporters were more likely than McCain voters to say they know someone who was not supporting Obama because he is black. McCain backers were more likely than Obama supporters to say they knew someone who was supporting him because he is black.

"It says something about race and our culture that we were more likely to attribute racial motivation to people who disagree with us than to people who agree with us," said Kathy Frankovic, the director of surveys at CBS News.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/politics/06poll.html?_r=1&hp"

Bring-out-your-dead: He is an American of African descent. He is not an African-American. Why do people refer to themselves as a person from a country they were not born in and most have never even been to?

If this bothers you, don't ever come up to the NYC metro area. Around here, where lots of folks aren't more than 2-3 generations from immigrants and still have strong cultural ties to the "old country," it's pretty common for people to just refer to themselves as Irish/Italian/Polish/whatever (no -American) even though they were born and raised in the good ol' USA.

/Obama is an African-American like I'm a European-American
//call him Kenyan-American if you want to be anal about it

helix400: The other day I read an issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education devoted solely to diversity (The Chronicle is a liberal uber-elite publication). The articles in it were downright offensive and racist.

Please, tell me what was so offensive and racist about these articles in the Chronicle. I happen to have every issue of it from the past few years sitting right here, so I'll be able to verify what you're talking about and then respond.

I don't expect a response from you, because I know you're completely full of shiat, but let's see what happens.