That pic has always been a favorite of mine.

obama will save us.

/Holy crap am I first?

Dang, just missed it.

gotta give the media something to do

them's my boobies

Its okay, all is good in the garden now.

I'm looking forward to all the new "Highest Standard of Living" billboards.

i wonder if anyone knows what happened to that family dorthea photographed after she took those pictures.

The explanation about the pic I heard was that the woman and her children were neither sharecroppers nor Okies nor residents of a Hooverville, but a family who was poor just like most folks. The woman in the pic is said to have *hated* it.

/I also find the poignancy in it, too

I wont panicoontil I see a fat lady ladling soup out to two lines at once.

Actually, there is plenty of cause for panic, and most of the media is underplaying the precariousness of the situation. The US is literally living on borrowed time.

Don't worry, the Messiah will save us.

Keep spending money, keep making money, keep having money stolen by government.

I doubt it will be great, but I bet it will be pretty damn good.

people today have NO idea what the depression was like. We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO completely far from anything like that.

j10jep: i wonder if anyone knows what happened to that family dorthea photographed after she took those pictures.

They discovered the government couldn't be depended on to fix anything so the invented something innovative and got rich.

panicoontil == panicoontil

Look, there is virtually no chance of something like the great depression happening again, barring a truly massive supply shock or something.

Governments won't do the idiotic shiat they did back in the 1930s - raising taxes and adopting more conservative spending programs. Central banks have more power now, and they won't decide to raise interest rates on a whim. We have more control over our economic destiny now, and that should keep anything truly awful from happening to the economy.

People need to stop freaking the fark out. Yeah, the economy is in poor shape, but it will - by and large - fix itself. A lot of people will lose some money, but that's nothing compared to massive losses in real income. Stop trying to compare every little recession with the Great Depression - it's like comparing the time you bumped your head with the time Ben Roethlisberger crashed without a helmet.

Huh.

Last time I saw that picture was in an exhibit about Anne Frank that came to the museum I worked at. It was in the section about Nazi propaganda against Jews and Gypsies. IIRC woman in the picture is a Gypsy woman and that photo was contrasted in a propaganda booklet with pictures of a happy blonde German woman with clean and happy blonde German children.

It was an excellent exhibit, and if it comes to a museum near you I highly recommend checking it out.

/end sorta threadjack

Muta: panicoontil

Buhuwahahah

Now that obama is going to pay for my mortgage and my gas, i should be able to save up OK.

Mr.BobDobalita: people today have NO idea what the depression was like. We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO completely far from anything like that.

Hopefully true, but out situation has changed a lot.

There are similarities - such as the collapse of credit because money wasn't actually flowing anywhere. One big downside to our curent situation is the lack of solid agricultural and manufacturing base that we once had.

Mr.BobDobalita: people today have NO idea what the depression was like. We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO completely far from anything like that.

My grandfather (and many his age) would beg to differ...

texastag: obama will save us.

/Holy crap am I first?

i wish you did get first, so then we could've laughed at how retarded you are

hudef: Actually, there is plenty of cause for panic, and most of the media is underplaying the precariousness of the situation. The US is literally living on borrowed time.

Opinions are like assholes: everybody's got one.

Would you care to substantiate your opinion with even one paragraph of explanation?

My take on it: we are witnessing a deleveraging of personal and corporate balance sheet (people and companies are reducing their debt loads), but that doesn't mean we won't continue to use debt in the future. Fortunately, the U.S. Government is expanding the national debt to inject liquidity and capital into the corporate sector and (soon) to reduce mortgage debt for Americans who can afford to service the reduced mortgages.

Muta: panicoontil == panicoontil

Why yes it does

That picture by Dorothea Lange is more about the Dust Bowl than the Great Depression. It was the drying up of the land in and around Oklahoma that sent the Okies on the road westward, not so much the economic collapse.

CommonSenseSurrenders: There are similarities - such as the collapse of credit because money wasn't actually flowing anywhere. One big downside to our curent situation is the lack of solid agricultural and manufacturing base that we once had.

No. See, what happened in the 1930s was an actual collapse of the banking industry. We have seen some banking failures, but nothing even close to the scale of what happened 70 years ago.

And what does our manufacturing capacity have to do with anything? And we actually still have a fairly massive agricultural industry, it just doesn't involve that stupid, inefficient "family farm" bullshiat.

In the garden, if the roots are healthy, there will be growth in the spring.

The story behind the picture:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/list/128_migm.html
/it's too early on the west coast to use html (that's a law or something)

Huskadoodle: In the garden, if the roots are healthy, there will be growth in the spring.

And the roots are still relatively healthy...

I don't think America's even had enough to prompt, by dictionary definition, a Recession, never mind a Depression, or even a Great Depression.

I mean, a recession takes two quarters of negative growth. You're just got one so far, right?

neomatt: Mr.BobDobalita: people today have NO idea what the depression was like. We are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO completely far from anything like that.

My grandfather (and many his age) would beg to differ...


It's a fact. The government doesn't operate the same way. The markets don't operate the same way. There are things put into place to make sure it doesn't happen. I can imagine there are SOME similarities but that's it. Not saying that things can't get bad, but we're in a totally different place.

Having to give up your cable TV or internet is a lot different than having nothing, NOTHING.

For every person like your grandfather, I can find one that says the opposite, and we can't even imagine how it would be.

starsrift: I don't think America's even had enough to prompt, by dictionary definition, a Recession, never mind a Depression, or even a Great Depression.

I mean, a recession takes two quarters of negative growth. You're just got one so far, right?

That's the thing.. media is doing just waht media does. Sell newspapers. They're trying to whip up a frenzy and cause panic to sell ads and newspapers. To get to a depression, we first have to have a RECESSION. Economy has to go backwards before it collapses.

I got your dustbowl right here.

Yep, raising taxes will fix this, just like it did back then.

Window seat please.

Don't kid yourselves. The US doesn't actually produce anything anymore.

I realized this when I was buying frozen vegetables yesterday, and they were marked "Made in China" right on the bag. No kidding.

We are still the largest economy simply because we still have the most disposable wealth, in the hands of masses who are preconditioned to dispose of it. Once WalMart is through sucking the last of that wealth over to China, our services will no longer be required, and since we don't sell goods . . . India and China can cut out the middleman and sell their products directly to their now-established middle classes. This won't be a Great Depression so much as a Great Fall.

/too tinfoilly? not tinfoilly enough?
//keep pushing those stock prices further down; they're cheaper for me :-)

Thank you, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Huskadoodle: gar

I like to watch.

Huskadoodle: In the garden, if the roots are healthy, there will be growth in the spring.

I've many times thought W was channeling Chauncey

hudef: Right. Nothing to get hung about.

Strawberry fields, forever!

Raising taxes on the insanely wealthy (ie. family income > $150k/yr) will bring us out of the recession for sure. Nothing to worry about.

Besides, Uncle Sam knows how to spend your money better than you. Please relax and enjoy the ride.

/Fark Disclaimer: I blame Bush

I thought the national debt and the financial crisis were automagically zeroed out now that we elected Token? Did I miss a news report? Maybe that puppy isn't in the news enough?...shiat...are we going through a puppy crisis...that's what this report is really about...oh my god...won't somebody think of the puppies!!!

Governments won't do the idiotic shiat they did back in the 1930s - raising taxes and adopting more conservative spending programs. Central banks have more power now, and they won't decide to raise interest rates on a whim. We have more control over our economic destiny now, and that should keep anything truly awful from happening to the economy.

The State going bankrupt could also be "truly awful".
Keysian economics is a good idea, if you CURB the deficit spending in good economic times again, problem is no one wanted to do that anymore, so most developed nations have assloads of debt - debt that will at some point lead to default.

Only_A_Lad: No. See, what happened in the 1930s was an actual collapse of the banking industry. We have seen some banking failures, but nothing even close to the scale of what happened 70 years ago.

And why did the banking industry collapse? Within the US, mainly because o the rise of consumer credit, combined with the limited buying power o the masses. People bought and bought on credit, which created artificially inflated manufacturing rates - and in the end no-one could pay for what they bought, manufacturing couldn't maintain high rates of prouction without sales and money, and mass layoffs started, combined with the mass devaluation of stocks.

On the global scale, money wasn't really flowing anywhere either. Germany and indeed much of Europe was still crippled by WWI. They didn't really have any money to rebuild their industry (which aided Hitler's rise to power). Germany, saddled with massive reparation payments to England would borrow the money o make those payments from the US, then send it to England as their reparations payments. England would then send it right back to the US to repay what they borrowed from the US or the war effort. Pretty much everywhere money *seemed* to be flowing, but in actuality it was going nowhere.

And what does our manufacturing capacity have to do with anything?

Quite a bit, really. That all comes down to that "buy local" concept, only on a bigger scale. People work locally, put their money back into local businesses which continue to serve the public. It's a circle of dependancy that helps grow an economy, and even in tough times can help boost the economy to a degree. Now we are a services-based economy, and without people needing services, more businesses could quickly disappear - and along with that, jobs - and therefore even less spending power of the masses.

And we actually still have a fairly massive agricultural industry, it just doesn't involve that stupid, inefficient "family farm" bullshiat.

Really? Then why is ti that most of my produce seems to come from other countries? Go to yur local supermarket and peruse through the fruits and veggies and see just how much on the shelves actually comes from the US. You might be surprised.

So what does manufacturing and agriculture have to do with it? No capability to produce needed products within the country, while meanwhile the value of the dollar continues to plunge so we can get fewer and fewer needed goods from foreign sources, and less and less abiliy to sustain ourselves....

hudef: Right. Nothing to get hung about.

Exactly. See, the national debt has fark all to do with anything beyond the exchange rate. And the larger national debt should decrease the dollar's value, leading to more foreign investment and allowing us to export our nation's products (agricultural goods, human capital, capital-intensive goods, etc) at a greater profit. And that should correct for more market problems. Seriously, the national debt doesn't farking matter, and it might end up helping us out here.

EvelFarknievel: Thank you, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Actually, you should look into who was behind the deregulation of the mortgage industry before making such glaringly ignorant statements. As the old saying goes, "follow the money."

Tomji: Keysian economics is a good idea, if you CURB the deficit spending in good economic times again, problem is no one wanted to do that anymore, so most developed nations have assloads of debt - debt that will at some point lead to default.

Oh, I agree with you. Maybe the government's best course of action is to do nothing. But the governments of the 1930s did worse than nothing, actually aiding the collapse of their economies.

CommonSenseSurrenders: On the global scale, money wasn't really flowing anywhere either. Germany and indeed much of Europe was still crippled by WWI. They didn't really have any money to rebuild their industry (which aided Hitler's rise to power). Germany, saddled with massive reparation payments to England would borrow the money o make those payments from the US, then send it to England as their reparations payments. England would then send it right back to the US to repay what they borrowed from the US or the war effort. Pretty much everywhere money *seemed* to be flowing, but in actuality it was going nowhere.

But that's the great thing about today's economy. While the worldwide credit market has taken a hit, other institutions can also step into local economies and invest. And that's what we should see in the US (or at least what we would have seen had the gov't not bailed out the banks. But foreign banks will still buy up debt within the gov't, which will further depress the dollar's value and allow for further foreign investment).

CommonSenseSurrenders: And what does our manufacturing capacity have to do with anything?

Quite a bit, really. That all comes down to that "buy local" concept, only on a bigger scale. People work locally, put their money back into local businesses which continue to serve the public. It's a circle of dependancy that helps grow an economy, and even in tough times can help boost the economy to a degree. Now we are a services-based economy, and without people needing services, more businesses could quickly disappear - and along with that, jobs - and therefore even less spending power of the masses.

They still put money back into the economy if they purchase imported goods. And, what's more, they are able to purchase more because they have (on average) higher paying jobs. The only way we can get manufacturing jobs back is if we decrease investment in human capital. That's not going to happen, nor should it.

CommonSenseSurrenders: Really? Then why is ti that most of my produce seems to come from other countries? Go to yur local supermarket and peruse through the fruits and veggies and see just how much on the shelves actually comes from the US. You might be surprised.

Yep. Chief US exports lie in meat production. But there is quite a bit of corn, rice, and vegetable production going on.


CommonSenseSurrenders: So what does manufacturing and agriculture have to do with it? No capability to produce needed products within the country, while meanwhile the value of the dollar continues to plunge so we can get fewer and fewer needed goods from foreign sources, and less and less abiliy to sustain ourselves....

The only people who think autarky is a good thing are idiots. Look, Riccardo showed that trade makes us all wealthier two hundred years ago. We don't need to produce our own goods to grow economically. It just takes more capital investment in other sectors.

CTaylor80: Don't kid yourselves. The US doesn't actually produce anything anymore.

The US produces an amazing amount of food, weapons, and technology.
The food, owing to a large amount of arable land and extremely low population density.
The weapons, because America is an insecure warmonger state that spends more on weaponry than every other country in the world combined (though still has trouble competing with the AK-47).
The technology, because you hire all the other country's scientists to come and work for you.

Huskadoodle: Its okay, all is good in the garden now.

Man, no one is gonna catch that reference.