Abu Ghadiya was feared by the Syrians as an agent of Islamic fundamentalism who was hostile to the secular regime in Damascus. It would be expedient for Syria if America would eliminate him.

Does this mean we're friends now, Lebanon and Israel notwithstanding?

(2003) In secular Syria, an Islamic revival
A state with a history of quashing rebellious Islamic groups is seeing an upswing in religious faith
...

Analysts say the Islamic resurgence is a reaction to the American-led wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the continuing violence between Israelis and Palestinians, and the faltering domestic reform program. The Syrian authorities are closely monitoring the Islamic resurgence, buying off some clerics as a means of controlling them, analysts say.
===========

(2007) How Israel Thinks
Israel's foreign intelligence service, the Mossad, recently concluded that Syria is sincere in its offers to make peace with Israel in exchange for Israeli withdrawal from the Golan Heights. The assessment was reported last week in the mass-circulation Israeli daily Yediot Aharonot, based on sources within the Mossad.

The Yediot report hasn't received much attention, but it should. Last spring, the Mossad was the only dissenter among Israel's four main intelligence agencies when the other three - Military Intelligence, the Shin Bet domestic security service and the Foreign Ministry intelligence bureau - reported that Syria was serious about peace. If the Mossad has turned around, then the Israeli intelligence community is now unanimous in its view of Syrian sincerity.

The intelligence agencies believe that Syria's president, Bashar Assad, has overcome his early instability and is now firmly in command. They believe Assad wants to end Syria's isolation, join the world community and the Arab mainstream and escape its dead-end alliance with Iran. They believe Israel has a window of opportunity to make peace with its most hostile neighbor and engineer a fundamental shift in Middle East politics.

They also believe that the window won't stay open much longer. Iran, they say, is growing steadily stronger and more assertive. The longer Syria remains in its orbit, the harder it will be to break away. If Assad can't show progress through negotiations within a year or two, he'll be forced to abandon diplomacy and open fire.

Surely you can't be Syria.

ultraholland: Surely you can't be Syria.

iasascms

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: iasascms

Oh, so close!

FTA: "I saw eight or nine soldiers armed to the teeth. They carried big black M16s"

Most soldiers carry little white M16s, so identification here is a bit sketchy.

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: ultraholland: Surely you can't be Syria.

iasascms

ijwttybgl. wacoy.

Gyrfalcon: FTA: "I saw eight or nine soldiers armed to the teeth. They carried big black M16s"

Most soldiers carry little white M16s, so identification here is a bit sketchy.

Holy sensationalist liberal panty-waisted media!! M-16 != armed to the teeth.

Maize, you call it corn.

Theological Farker: Gyrfalcon: FTA: "I saw eight or nine soldiers armed to the teeth. They carried big black M16s"

Most soldiers carry little white M16s, so identification here is a bit sketchy.

Holy sensationalist liberal panty-waisted media!! M-16 != armed to the teeth.

M-16s, also known as "carbines" fire "slugs" at nearly 500000 rounds per second, or nearly two times the speed of sound.

/This...is CNN

Must be them meat pies! good stuff, soylent green be damned.

ultraholland: Surely you can't be Syria.

I am Syria. And don't call me "Shirley."

Sorry if I was flipant. God help them all.

I am drinking wine, and therefore read the headline as "Syrah voted for U.S. raid before they voted against it".

Barakku: /This...is CNN

Theological Farker: Gyrfalcon: FTA: "I saw eight or nine soldiers armed to the teeth. They carried big black M16s"

Most soldiers carry little white M16s, so identification here is a bit sketchy.

Holy sensationalist liberal panty-waisted media!! M-16 != armed to the teeth.

Perhaps you should contact the farmer who made this observation, and is not used to seeing people with more than a junky AK. Various straps, body armor, grenades, sidearm, shotguns, and possibly even a (light) machine gun put down for cover would be enough to convince him they were.

Jason McFarkster: I am drinking wine, and therefore read the headline as "Syrah voted for U.S. raid before they voted against it".

How petite of you.

Party Boy: (2007) How Israel Thinks...

Now you did it Party Boy!

The guns were the clue to their identity - only Americans or their allies carry M16s; the Syrian army has Russian-made AK47s.

This is why I am proud to own an AR and why we should never try to ban them, they are recognized around the world as the Gun of Freedom^TM.

/USA!USA!!USA!!!

In the time-honoured tradition of covert US operations in the Middle East, this one seems to have gone spectacularly wrong. . . .

Despite the furore over the raid, there can be little doubt that the Americans will celebrate the death of Abu Ghadiya, whom they described as the "most prominent" smuggler for Al-Qaeda in Iraq. He allegedly ran guns, money and foreign fighters along the "rat lines" that lead across the desert into northern Iraq and sometimes led raids himself. . . .

American officials refused to apologise for the botched raid on Syria. They said the administration was determined to operate under a definition of self-defence that provided for strikes on terrorist targets in any sovereign state.

While the information provided is fascinating I quibble with the definition of "botched" and "gone spectacularly wrong." I'd put Somalia 1993 in that category. It sounds like for this snatch-and-grab, an A+ outcome would be capture the guy for questioning; A- would be kill him with no American deaths in the process. If they really flew in in the evening when everyone was still awake as this farmer says, it's going to be pretty hard to miss the sound of helicopters approaching and you'd expect terrorists to have firearms handy, so if nobody on the American side died, this was a good day.

Too bad if American officials want to brag about this on background, maybe they should want to keep people guessing so we could do this again if needed; perhaps they are simply endangering the lives of soldiers who will undertake future missions. Still, it's not too hard to see why Damascus would be uneasy about letting a jihadist set up shop within its borders, and when he predictably started fomenting revolution in Syria he became expendable to them. It also helps explain why the US was so determinedly quiet right after the raid, not wanting to talk about it at all to the press and conveniently doing it when other news events would get more attention.

Finally I find it ironic that this action is so completely noncontroversial in the US- it is similar to what Obama promised to do in Pakistan, and indeed he has not commented on this at all to my knowledge. Probably the candidates were briefed on this and pretty much everyone agrees it was a smart move? Yet it seems part and parcel with what Charlie Gibson would call the "Bush doctrine" of preemptive attack and violating national borders. Maybe the "Bush doctrine" is more universal than lots of people think. The raid was unpopular on Fark, but maybe that is just because Bush ordered it.

I already knew a lot of Farkers posting negatively about this thread last week were morons, nice to see it confirmed. What are you jackasses going to do when Bush is out of office and we still do what is necessary to attack those who would harm us?

Indis: Perhaps you should contact the farmer who made this observation, and is not used to seeing people with more than a junky AK. Various straps, body armor, grenades, sidearm, shotguns, and possibly even a (light) machine gun put down for cover would be enough to convince him they were.



I'm not going to pick your post apart, i'd feel too bad, you're obviously very innocent.

Your posts shows clearly you did not serve in the infantry, if in the military at all.

Whatever, Syria assassinated an MP in Lebanon...and Assad destroyed Hamat, i dunno 10,000 plus civilian casualties to stop Islamic terrorism.

America, probably in a secret deal or Migs would have intercepted those helicopters, took out an al-qaeda den, with probably all the kills being hostile forces, grab a guy. Syria has to yell for posturing, but I doubt anyone cares.

downtownkid: I already knew a lot of Farkers posting negatively about this thread last week were morons, nice to see it confirmed. What are you jackasses going to do when Bush is out of office and we still do what is necessary to attack those who would harm us?

When Obama is in office, it'll be fine and dandy.

The difference between Syria and the rest of the Islamic world is massive alcohol consumption. The Syrian government got something from the Soviets besides their outdated weapons - the idea that no people in history have every overthrown a government that provided cheap alcohol to its people.

/arak

Even Islamic Terr'ist States are afraid of religious dominionists.
Yet our right-wingers continue to becoming increasingly cozy with them, and tolerate them within the ranks of our own military.

Joy.

trippdogg: The difference between Syria and the rest of the Islamic world is massive alcohol consumption. The Syrian government got something from the Soviets besides their outdated weapons - the idea that no people in history have every overthrown a government that provided cheap alcohol to its people.

/arak

Really? I can say without a doubt that I can get along with any culture so long as we can get boozed

rathoth: and tolerate them within the ranks of our own military.

...what?

SemperLieSuckah: rathoth: and tolerate them within the ranks of our own military.

...what?

Jews? In MY military?

Approves:

Why so Syrius?

/Syriusly

downtownkid: I already knew a lot of Farkers posting negatively about this thread last week were morons, nice to see it confirmed. What are you jackasses going to do when Bush is out of office and we still do what is necessary to attack those who would harm us?

Obama is doing what is necessary, a good job indeed

I'll guess that Damascus would be the first place to be hit with a nuclear attack.

Are there any online betting places for this type of guess?

Anyone LOL at the farmers name?

Blackbarticus: Anyone LOL at the farmers name?

Don't laugh friend, his name was Robert Paulson.

/got nothin'
//anyone else tired of governments playing games?

For those who could actually disseminate information, they was easy to spot. The questions most morans couldn't ask were pretty obvious.

Why Syria would allow these helicopters through their air defense unless they didn't know who it was and where they were going. Don't forget that they stepped up their efforts after Israel bombed their nuclear reactor they were building on the sly.

An RPG was seen being fired at helicopters. This was left out of tons of statements by the Syrians, but a UK reporter had that from several witnesses.

Why a woman with children were at a construction site. An islamic woman with a child at a construction site? Doubtful.

This was a snatch and grab gone wrong. They were likely not wanting a battle. If they just wanted to kill them, simple missle strike would has sufficed. There were 4 blackhawks, no Apaches.

The insurgents must have seen/heard them coming from other people closer to the border and had warning.

specialk111: Blackbarticus: Anyone LOL at the farmers name?

Don't laugh friend, his name was Robert Paulson.

/got nothin'
//anyone else tired of governments playing games?

No, I think we'd pretty much be better off if we locked Bush and Congress in a room with some Wiis and just let 'em go at it...

CRAPPY DENTIST (new window)

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: The guns were the clue to their identity - only Americans or their allies carry M16s; the Syrian army has Russian-made AK47s.

This is why I am proud to own an AR and why we should never try to ban them, they are recognized around the world as the Gun of FreedomTM.

/USA!USA!!USA!!!

wait til after obama is president, you will be on the list.

I think Dick Cheney may have been involved in this, as well.

nuclear_asshat: For those who could actually disseminate information, they was easy to spot.

I bet the Syrians will get along even better with President Obama.

WATCH YOUR FINGERS (new window)

bmihura: I'll guess that Damascus would be the first place to be hit with a nuclear attack.

Are there any online betting places for this type of guess?

Yes, in fact....

StrategyPage.com Prediction Market (new window)

ultraholland: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: iasascms

Oh, so close!

I heard it in my mind as Stop.

BTW....

"To begin with I thought they were Syrian helicopters, but then I saw eight or nine soldiers armed to the teeth. They carried big black M16s," said Mohammad al-Ali



I was wondering where he went off to...

I will repeat my previous post re: Syria for brevity sake.

Fark 'em.

It never ceases to amaze me, the great amount of bigotry to be seen on this site.

The "Sources" are just conjecture being used as a basis for sensational reports.

Hate to bring this up 4+ years later, but....

Kerry voted Yea on a Democratic version of the war funding bill before voting Nay on the Republican version. He voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it. It was a completely cromulent point to make, and I don't know how this got twisted into some sort of "gotcha" vis-à-vis waffling. But I guess American politics really are that infantile.

/Still bitter
//Will only be bitter for 48 more hours!

btw +1 on the headline, subby

so ah, will any of the solders be charged with the murder of 7 civies?

I mean, if Mexico had pulled this sort of thing against the US, we'd be crying out for blood.