There is no one music subgenre that can indefinitely sustain its popularity...except maybe parody.

i figured it was because most of it was formulaic and boring? owing to having been a style dictated by a record producer rather than as the honest artistic style of many of the performers.

Asa Phelps: i figured it was because most of it was formulaic and boring? owing to having been a style dictated by a record producer rather than as the honest artistic style of many of the performers.

A.K.A: Disco.

Asa Phelps: owing to having been a style dictated by a record producer

Which producer?

Butch Vig? (Nevermind)
Rick Parashar? (Alive)
Steve Albini? (In Utero)
Michael Beinhorn? (Superunknown)

It's not dead, it just moved into art and design.

Meet Us at the Stick:
Which producer?

Butch Vig? (Nevermind)
Rick Parashar? (Alive)
Steve Albini? (In Utero)
Michael Beinhorn? (Superunknown)


Not one in particular - i was referring more to how in the 90's record companies in general were encouraging bands with less clarity of vision to 'grunge it up' so to speak.

Our long national nightmare is finally over.

I'll give up my ratty flannel shirts when you tear them from my cold dead hands!

Asa Phelps: Not one in particular - i was referring more to how in the 90's record companies in general were encouraging bands with less clarity of vision to 'grunge it up' so to speak.

Ah. Okay. I think you can make that argument with any form of popular music.

As for a singular producer driving one style of music, just look at Hugh Padgham in the 80s. Who the fark didn't he produce?

Of course it had nothing to do with the fact that Kurt Cobain (as a figurehead) captured the attention of millions, gave them an outlet to express their angst and ultimately killed himself. On purpose.

That would kill any art form.

FTFA: Grunge wasn't nihilist or moany - they really did want a better world for everyone. It was misrepresented as being self-absorbed, but actually addressed big themes, things outside the artists' private concerns - a rare thing in popular music.

After Kurt Cobain's suicide, it seems really difficult to argue the above point.

Just like any and EVERY art form worthwhile, it was killed by the rapid co-opting by artiface, by profit-minded corporate imitation.

I call it the "Hi and Lois" Threshold. Once Chip went "grunge," you knew it was over.

However, let's not forget the second wave, Modest Mouse, Built to Spill, etc. Excellent music.

Art form? More like "marketing term" and I am already dreading seeing the fashions of the 90s come back like the 80s did. People from the 90s were such freakin' tools. The music was viciously derivative but somehow the people who got spoonfed music by the radio industry convinced themselves that they had some kind of cultural movement.

The idea of grunge is propagated by choads who never would have gone and found a band for themselves.

"I AM DOUG AND I am out of here..."

*trots out on the fourth wave ska bandwagon*

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: There is no one music subgenre that can indefinitely sustain its popularity...except maybe parody.

Polka.
/I rest my case

I see what you did there, subby.

Grunge is dead because it ate a big bowl of dicks. It was warmed over arena rock, without the songs about elves and shagging, and without the interesting melodic hooks.

Good riddance.

/ Gen Xer

Good. Grunge sucked, except for Garbage.

Well, they say that rock is dead
and they're probably right.

Grunge was killed by Prozac, Celexa, and Wellbutrin.

Mentat: Good. Grunge sucked, except for Garbage.

Garbage was about as grunge as Metallica.

Occam's Chainsaw: Mentat: Good. Grunge sucked, except for Garbage.

Garbage was about as grunge as Metallica.

Whatever. They were the only thing good about the 90's music scene.

Whatever.

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Whatever.

I don't even care.

Crown_of_Shoes: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Whatever.

I don't even care.

I'm gonna go write a song about it.

joshiz: Of course it had nothing to do with the fact that Kurt Cobain (as a figurehead) captured the attention of millions, gave them an outlet to express their angst and ultimately killed himself. On purpose.

That would kill any art form.


I'm just going to quote this, because it's all that needs to be said.

Grunge died when Layne Stanley did.

Jubeebee: joshiz: Of course it had nothing to do with the fact that Kurt Cobain (as a figurehead) captured the attention of millions, gave them an outlet to express their angst and ultimately killed himself. On purpose.

That would kill any art form.


I'm just going to quote this, because it's all that needs to be said.

Sorry, but no. If Joshiz is suggesting people grew wary of Grunge when its spokesperson killed himself, then Joshiz is giving the public way more credit than it is due. Or if he is suggesting that musicians just migrated away from all that tragedy, I disagree on that as well.

Grunge was the final nail in the coffin for popular rock in general. It was a huge movement of real musicians and it was the last of its kind. Now corporate rock is staffed by fake musicians who don't deserve the notoriety that their record companies have granted them. The profit is way easier this way, the suicides less likely, the actual content, empty.

They got haircuts, mall clothes, grew beards and became really boring.

Like, Pearl Jam.

Besides, Alice in Chains friggin OWNED the rest of those bands. The cds still work. Good enough.

Alice In Chains was a can of aquanet away from being a glam band.

If you identify with one musical sub-genre you're a boring person and deserve to be alone.

Plus most grunge was glam without the effects and makeup.

I'm glad it was here... and I'm glad it left.

Grunge was always a marketing term, and I can't believe that people can still use it with a straight face. It's how they sold you flannels and Doc Martens at the mall. Out of that time came a lot of great music, but none of the musicians were defining themselves as grunge, and would usually make jokes about the term in interviews. I think more than anything it opened up mainstream music in a way that hadn't been done since the '60s to where all kinds of diverse and innovative acts were given a fighting chance. Yeah, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden played on Lollapalooza, but so did Arrested Development and Beck, and I could name dozens of examples of artists with hit records that wouldn't have been able to do that in the '80s.

/Why yes, I was in high school at the time....

Some styles of music become less popular over time. More at 11.

R.A.Danny: I'll give up my ratty flannel shirts when you tear them from my cold dead hands!

I was wearing ratty flannel shirts in '79 when I was listening to "Rust Never Sleeps". Still haven't given them up.

Pearl Jam and Alice and Chains were the shiat. Nirvana was ok, but really there were only about 2 songs of theirs that I like. The rest of them sound like loosely put together pieces that your constantly high friend would make you listen too in his parent's basement.

Alice in Chains albums still rock.

I invented grunge actually.

True.

I was in my bedroom noodling with my electric bass in 1983 listening to Black Sabbath Vol 4 and decided to de-tune my bass a whole step or two. I was playing these minor key descending lines and thought:
"man, it would be really cool to combine Black Sabbath with American style punk rock"

I just couldn't find anyone to jam with me who shared my vision.
In the 80s here in Dallas you were either a "metal head" or a "punk rocker" and there was NO crossover.

The first time I ever heard the MELVINS "Bullhead" and "Eggnogg" as well as "Ozma" and others I yelled "THAT!!!!"
"That is EXACTLY what I wanted!"

The only difference between me and Buzzo is that he lived in a place where he could find cool people to do what he wanted to do.

...oh,and the hair.

funny, i heard a song from that one good Hole album today and thought (not for the first time) that there is no way in hell that Cobain didn't write a lot of those songs in one way or another.

SockMonkeyHolocaust:

*trots out on the fourth wave ska bandwagon*

I dig.

To paraphrase REH: "Every generation thinks they invented ska"

Grunge was shiate, will always be shiate.

Alice in chains was not grunge but were lumped in with them because of their geographic location. Same thing with Queensryche.

A lot of people tend to lump those two together with the crap that grunge was. The best survivor of that era was Dave Grohl (thank God). He was the only good thing to come from that scene and certainly that band

iketurner: Grunge was shiate, will always be shiate.

Alice in chains was not grunge

Convenient, eh? You can just draw arbitrary lines that exclude the bands you like and then declare the remainder of the subgenre shiat.

Crown_of_Shoes: iketurner: Grunge was shiate, will always be shiate.

Alice in chains was not grunge

Convenient, eh? You can just draw arbitrary lines that exclude the bands you like and then declare the remainder of the subgenre shiat.

Are you new to the Rock Critic game?

The early '90s guitar music scene was particularly strong, and the philosophy of grunge (DIY, do your own thing, music over image) certainly was a contributory factor to this. See No Nirvana (pops) TV show for a condensed snapshot of some of the great stuff that came out at that time (early 30-something UK farkers will almost certainly have watched this programme first time round).

T.M.S.: To paraphrase REH: "Every generation thinks they invented ska"

The weird thing about the resurgence in popularity in the 90s was that it was so forced (along with rockabilly). I was working as a rock critic from roughly 97' to 00' and it was amazing how many LLCs were established to either give tax breaks or as investment opportunities for these terrible ska/whatever hybrids.

It's like Nirvana kind of blew up everything and then the record companies were wondering where to go from there so they forced boy bands and all these terrible sub-genres of music down our throats.

iketurner: Grunge was shiate, will always be shiate.

Alice in chains was not grunge but were lumped in with them because of their geographic location. Same thing with Queensryche.

A lot of people tend to lump those two together with the crap that grunge was. The best survivor of that era was Dave Grohl (thank God). He was the only good thing to come from that scene and certainly that band

If you think there is any Foo Fighters album is good as In Utero, you should burn(or delete) your music collection.

Anyone who actually uses the word "grunge" without any sense of irony and/or without the quotation marks missed the point.

"Twenty years later, grunge is a dead art form. Mostly because Courtney Love killed it"

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

Alice in Chains: Boston Meets Grunge

/didn't invent the saying
//find a chuckle in it
///AIC Unplugged = Amazing

Only 20 years too late...

In the beginning....there was.....

L'Andrew