This article was good...FOR ME TO POOP ON!

I'm not a great fan of Moby's music, but I think I would like him if I met him.

Em, on the other hand, can take a Slim Shivvy for all I care.

It's the way he am.

Eminem is such a fag around stuffed dogs



Go Moby!

Moby is one of the few(er) electronic musicians that manages a very organic, emotive sound. I don't always agree with his politics, but his music is universal. Incredible stuff, particularly the album "Play." Hell, even the 'b-sides' addendum to that album is awesome.

Also, if you ever happen across an interview with him, read it. Unlike some artists (all mediums), he doesn't instantly inspire a facepalm when he starts yammering on.

There was once a time when I also didn't know who/what Triumph the insult dog was.

However,since I am NOT a blithering imbecile,if someone had walked up to me with a puppet and started saying all that crazy and hilarious stuff I think I would have figured out it is just a joke.

Dumb assholes.
Always making excuses.

"Moby, Eminem called you a 42-year old bald-headed dick. You can't be more than 41?" - Triumph

/somethin' like that anyway

HipsterHolocaust: Moby is one of the few(er) electronic musicians that manages a very organic, emotive sound. I don't always agree with his politics, but his music is universal. Incredible stuff, particularly the album "Play." Hell, even the 'b-sides' addendum to that album is awesome.

He's universally loathed by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.

Yes, but will he still get stomped by Obie?

Glitchwerks: HipsterHolocaust: Moby is one of the few(er) electronic musicians that manages a very organic, emotive sound. I don't always agree with his politics, but his music is universal. Incredible stuff, particularly the album "Play." Hell, even the 'b-sides' addendum to that album is awesome.

He's universally loathed by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.

I'm 'seriously into electronic music.' I know that you're "just sayin'," but that's like me saying...wait a minute, it IS me saying that just because you like one artist, but that I'm "seriously into (insert genre)," another artist's contributions are invalid.
I know that's a poorly written sentence, but read it again anyway.

Sorry, bro. Statement holds no water, even in a subjective discussion about the arts.

He's universally loathed by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.


Sorry--but afraid I must big DITTO on that one.

Moby is for people who look to the mainstream only. (not that there is anything wrong with that)
People with Moby records also have No Doubt and Good Charlotte records. (nothing wrong with that either)

You won't encounter too many people who are into Cabaret Voltaire,Aphex Twin,Underworld...etc who are also into Moby.
(again...nothing wrong here)

However,those who regard Moby as some kind of "electronic pioneer"
or serious cutting edge experimental....VERY WRONG WITH THAT.

Oh, I'm so happy things like this never really die . . . that was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen unfold in real-time. To think it had anything to do with an awards show is amazing.

Eminem made 3 or 4 albums talking about how he wanted to kill his wife.

Then after he made his money he remarried and divorced her again within a few months.

LOL.

Hey, craigdamage, your blanket statement doesn't apply to me. I love Cab Voltaire; even the early shiat like 'Live At The YMCA,' and I like a few songs by Moby.

I also like Suicide (feat Martin Rev and Alan Vega,) and early Human League; before the chicks showed up, stuff like Travelogue. By the way, I don't know if you're aware of this, but Underworld used to be this little band called Freur.
Ya know, they had that poppy / catchy little song called DOOT DOOT. They weren't always uber electro sounding.

theurge14: Eminem made 3 or 4 albums talking about how he wanted to kill his wife.

Then after he made his money he remarried and divorced her again within a few months.

LOL.

Don'tcha just love her black lip liner? She's sure fashionable. :P

OK...so what you're some of you are saying is that, armed with the knowledge that I enjoy and respect Moby, I'm, relegated to the mainstream, and am a mere dilettante in the world of producing music via electronics?

Is this where I insert my credentials as an electronic musician? Is this where I name-drop? My manifesto regarding DAW vs. hardware? Would these masturbatory declarations be enough to be considered anything but "mainstream only?"

Jeez. When you post, try to comprehend what a douche you sound like.

/likes the Beatles, too. Farking mainstream hacks.

Moby rocked, check out animal rights.

dr dre/eminem 08!

I did NOT mean to insult ANYBODY.

I also don't intend disrespect to Moby either.(real nice guy)

I have simply encountered too many ignorants(nobody here from this thread) who claim Moby as a "cutting edge guru" of electronic/experimental which I find ironic for folks who know nothing of electronic/experimental.

Kinda like dumb frat guys who claim "Coldplay is the greatest band ever" who have never heard of Brian Eno or Velvet Underground etc...

When is the last time you saw Blixa from Neabauten hanging out at a VH-1 award ceremony hamming it up with current celebs?

Moby is mainstream.
No crime.
Just sayin'

craigdamage: He's universally loathed by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.


Sorry--but afraid I must big DITTO on that one.

Moby is for people who look to the mainstream only. (not that there is anything wrong with that)
People with Moby records also have No Doubt and Good Charlotte records. (nothing wrong with that either)


If there were nothing wrong with it, in your mind, you wouldn't speak.

...btw--I don't regard Neil Diamond as some profound creative "pioneer" of "cutting edge" music either but I love the sh*t outta his sappy-ass songs.

craigdamage:
However,those who regard Moby as some kind of "electronic pioneer"
or serious cutting edge experimental....VERY WRONG WITH THAT.

Well, he had his early moments in the rave scene with songs like "Go" and "Mobility." "Go" was up there with "Papua New Guinea."

He can do fairly experimental music, if you go back in time to the dark ambient mix of "Hymn."

It's just that he'd rather make pop music and score commercials.

HipsterHolocaust:

Sorry, bro. Statement holds no water, even in a subjective discussion about the arts.

Incorrect. People loathe Moby. Anyone into the various "scenes" doesn't even regard him. He turned his back on the "rave" community long ago, and most of his fans parted ways with him after his temper tantrums in the newsgroups and his horrid "live" performances. When someone comes in rambling about "Play" it is generally the first album they picked up by him, and have no idea about his earlier work.

HipsterHolocaust: OK...so what you're some of you are saying is that, armed with the knowledge that I enjoy and respect Moby, I'm, relegated to the mainstream, and am a mere dilettante in the world of producing music via electronics?

You can like whatever you want. No one's insulting you for it, at least I'm not. I have to admit though, if you go around praising Moby as being an incredible artist, it does make me wonder what else you listen to. Why? Because they are TONS of artists who've done far superior work than anything on "Play." Some of them have created entire genres of music while Moby's off selling his tracks for car advertisements.

Like I said before, I'm just saying.

craigdamage
He's universally loathed by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.


Sorry--but afraid I must big DITTO on that one.

Moby is for people who look to the mainstream only. (not that there is anything wrong with that)
People with Moby records also have No Doubt and Good Charlotte records. (nothing wrong with that either)

No Doubt was awesome until Don't Speak was played once an hour every hour on VH1 and every adult contemporary radio station for approximately two years.

First of all, most if not all of his work was open licensed for use in film, etc. This is where I Google and link, but I leave you to that 9laziness on my part - but it's there). "Sellout" is a bad salvo in your overall argument. More importantly:

The reason I snarked about the Beatles, at the end of my last post, was to address your very issue of, "listen to Moby / wonder what else." I mean, you're calling my musical taste into question (a silly thing if there ever was one) based upon my respect for an artist you consider unworthy...and use 'mainstream' as a bolstering point to wit. Does your argument also apply to "Revolver," or "Abbey Road." And for that matter, why is it an argument in the first place?

I opted NOT to list other artists that I regularly rotate to avoid this conversation descending into the same sort of Pitchfork-esque my-music-is-better-than-yours nonsense. Were I to capitulate and lay out my music library, I'm no better than a scared librul listing all the ways I'm pro-America.

The sad thing? I have very eclectic tastes, particularly in the genre and subgenres we're talking about.

I'm sorry, man. There is nothing wrong with Moby other what you say there is. And that'shardly any sort of argument. To me, it sounds like two people having slightly different tastes. What's likely is that if we were to actually compare libraries the way hipsters do, we'd probably have a lot in common.

Dutifully submitted - my fark handle.

/has 2800 full cds. Yeah, they're all 'mainstream.'
//...

Eminem said it was stupid. good for him.

I own Moby records and do not own No Doubt or Good Charlotte records. So you, craigdamage, are a liar.

Brutal typos, etc, due to hurry. My bad. Also did not directly quote post I was getting at. But I'll continue with Glitchwerks: Incorrect. People loathe Moby. Anyone into the various "scenes" doesn't even regard him

OK. People into various 'scenes' now dictate what is worthy, artistically? You do realize that this attitude is EXACTLY what's wrong most 'scenes,' yes? This is without bringing up the fallacy of arguing aesthetics in the first place.

Uh-oh. Most people don't like Moby. Well, I mean, wow...I guess I should stop listening to him, then! I mean, if there's one thing I DON'T want to do, it's to offend the infamous 'they' who dictate my tastes.

Wow. Just wow. I guess I'm a d*ck for listening to Juno after the Shango shift. Dude, c'mon.

/crap...just bit. Fell to your level

HipsterHolocaust: "Sellout" is a bad salvo in your overall argument.

You're jumping to conclusions. I never said sellout, although it applies. What I noted was that most of Moby's original fans stopped listening due to his completely faked live shows and his attitude towards them.

But since you mention it, no one has turned their back on the culture that brought them up and walked straight towards the dollar faster than Moby. He is the biggest sell out in all of rave culture.

The reason I snarked about the Beatles, at the end of my last post, was to address your very issue of, "listen to Moby / wonder what else."

I couldn't care less about the Beatles, no offense. You're making statements about how Moby is one of the greatest electronic musicians you've ever heard. So I'm curious...who have you heard?

I opted NOT to list other artists that I regularly rotate to avoid this conversation descending into the same sort of Pitchfork-esque my-music-is-better-than-yours nonsense. Were I to capitulate and lay out my music library, I'm no better than a scared librul listing all the ways I'm pro-America.

You're taking this personal and overreacting. You want I should buy you a beer or offer you a smoke or something? Calm down, no one's attacking you here.

The sad thing? I have very eclectic tastes, particularly in the genre and subgenres we're talking about.

Well, that's great, why are you upset? Why not just say what producers or record labels you like?

I'm sorry, man. There is nothing wrong with Moby other what you say there is. And that'shardly any sort of argument. To me, it sounds like two people having slightly different tastes. What's likely is that if we were to actually compare libraries the way hipsters do, we'd probably have a lot in common.

Eh, I'm not so hip anymore. I've furrowed off into the deepest recesses of the "underground" when it comes to music. I do stick my head up from time to time to see what's trendy. If you wandered over into some serious music forums, they'd chop your nuts off if you mentioned Moby. Like Dogs on Acid. I'm not sure the term "hipster" applies for people like that. Obsessed militant fanatic is more appropriate for them. But serious, the fans of many styles of house, drum n bass, dubstep, trance, techno, etc. do not want anything to do with Moby.

/has 2800 full cds. Yeah, they're all 'mainstream.'
//...

Ah, e-penis measurements. Let's skip that, ok?

Ah, e-penis measurements. Let's skip that, ok?

Well, no. It wasn't designed as a brag - the idea is that of all of those CDs, certainly there must be something other than your run-of-the-mill stuff. I see how you might have thought that, though.
Will get to rest of post in minute (half-assed attempt at 'working,' here).

I have pretty much all of Moby's stuff, and I agree with the fellow who said that Moby does stand out from other electronic based music.

This song immediately came to mind.


God Moving Over the Faces of the Waters (new window)

There is something about the ambient bonus disc of Hotel that keeps me playing it. Dare I say it ... yes... much of Moby's music has a spiritual element to it ... that's what makes it organic even though it is electronic based. I think that's totally "cool beans."

And I have two No Doubt records. I bought "tragic kingdom" for like $2 at the pawn shop. And I have that album with "Hella Good" on it because, damn, that song is hella good. I like the uber-key-bass and the "peeewwuuu" sound in there. And I have like a bunch (more than 5 but i can't remember now) Underworld albums, and several remix/maxi eps. And one of my all time faves is Mike Patton. (enjoyed reading the thread on him the other day. i for one really like the new tomahawk disc)

OH, and I even have an Eminem disc, too.


My point?
THIS --->
I don't think one can draw any "valid" conclusions about what one likes or doesn't based on what else one likes. Musical taste and music appreciation doesn't work like that. THere is a lot of good stuff out there, and it's good for different reasons. And that's all I have to say about that.



Point being?

I like Moby, I like a lot of electronic music, and I care nothing for silly hipsters who invoke "mainstream" as a character flaw.

If your post involves you name dropping a couple of obscure bands to prove how scene you are, you're probably a douche.

Moby was kind of a 'pioneer' of certain genres of electronic music.. and by 'pioneer' I mean 'first to be widely recognised/popularized in any form of mainstream music media'.

'Go'was rather popular, especially remixes therof by other, less 'mainstream' artists, back in the day. So were some of the other tracks mentioned. However, Moby is indeed a big sellout, and well, who can blame him? He's made his contribution, let him enjoy the dollars already. He's changed his 'target market' and that's his perogative. It's not like Underworld was all that underground either, even in the early 90's - they got their share of mainstream attention as well, at least for a little bit. That doesn't make them suck by default, however, and some of their stuff was/is inspirational for other, less known artists. So they made their contribution too. Anyhow, I'm not up on all the newest/coolest elctronic musicians out there, but I know good music when I hear it, and I think that being out of the loop nowadays actually makes me more open to appreciate music from more artists without prejudging them based on past works or popular opinion. Which is why I'm hesitant to get too up-to-speed because then I'd fall back into the trap of the music elitist: "not as good as their old album, when they were uber underground", "I hate how they changed their style to apeal to the masses", "not even going to give this track a chance because they are known to suck", and finally "man that guy spins some good records, but they're OLD as DIRT".. etc..

HipsterHolocaust: Ah, e-penis measurements. Let's skip that, ok?

Well, no. It wasn't designed as a brag - the idea is that of all of those CDs, certainly there must be something other than your run-of-the-mill stuff. I see how you might have thought that, though.
Will get to rest of post in minute (half-assed attempt at 'working,' here).

Gotcha. It just sorta came off like that. I used to have an extremely large CD collection. Kinda wish I still had it, seeing what the market is for that stuff now. I went the data route, so now everything rests on a bunch of hard drives.

Bhasayate: I have pretty much all of Moby's stuff, and I agree with the fellow who said that Moby does stand out from other electronic based music.

Again, I just shrug my shoulders and wonder what else you listen to that is classified as "electronic" which makes you feel Moby stands out.

I don't think one can draw any "valid" conclusions about what one likes or doesn't based on what else one likes. Musical taste and music appreciation doesn't work like that. THere is a lot of good stuff out there, and it's good for different reasons. And that's all I have to say about that.

Right, but when people make statements about an artist's work being superior to a lot of other producers, it helps to understand someone's viewpoint by knowing what else they've listened to. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't like his music. Indeed, if you read some of my posts, you'll see I'm pretty well acquainted with his music. I am saying he isn't taken very seriously by a lot of people who listen to electronic music, and he alienated his original fan base entirely, and yes, he definitely "sold out" by every definition of the word. If people want to see that as some sort of "hipster evaluation" then I can't help it.

Hey, I hold Moby's old stuff in high regard. I even respect some of his more recent material. I just don't think he's a patch on some of the scene's true legends, and there's even kids out there right now that are absolutely blowing shiat up with their records.

evil intent: However, Moby is indeed a big sellout, and well, who can blame him? He's made his contribution, let him enjoy the dollars already.

The entire business aspect of selling records has pretty much fallen out. You either make music that will be sold at Best Buy, or you make a living off of DJ appearances. Vinyl sales are dying, and the collector's market is like some sort of soul consuming evil entity which sells records at the prices bodily organs sell for on the black market.

I don't blame him one bit, but I also have a greater respect for artists who stuck to their guns even though it's cost them so much in the long run. Just my opinion.

Vinyl sales are dying? I've heard reports several times that they are actually increasing for some reason.. but whatever.

I bought a Paul Oakenfold CD circa 2002 from best buy just last year. I thought it was pretty good, once I listened to it on a proper sound system. It's amazing what a crappy sound system (say, the stock sound system in many cars) will do to good electronic music.. really blew me away, the difference was night and day. I kept saying to myself "I don't remember this track being on here?!?" over and over, even though I had listened to it several times on sub-par (read "average") systems.

Sure, I respect a guy who doesn't sell out, but that's his perogative too. Maybe he has a day job or an inheritance. That's cool too.

EchoDork: I like Moby, I like a lot of electronic music, and I care nothing for silly hipsters who invoke "mainstream" as a character flaw.

If your post involves you name dropping a couple of obscure bands to prove how scene you are, you're probably a douche.

This. A thousand times, this.

Glitchwerks: Again, I just shrug my shoulders and wonder what else you listen to that is classified as "electronic" which makes you feel Moby stands out.

As others have said, I'll say again --- "scenes" are stupid. I mean, music is music is music. If I like to listen to it, cool.

By "electronic based", I mean anything that is not "guitar driven" or whatever. And if that's too wide, well, oh well. This would include, say, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Depeche Mode, stuff like that. But I meant more narrow, such as, hmmm, NIN, Kraftwork, KMFDM, Prodigy, Orbital, Freaky Chakra, Gary Neuman, Underworld, etc.

All I think I'm saying, and all that really needs saying, is that I think Moby is a unique artist, and I like his stuff because it "moves me" more than a lot other "similar-ish" stuff of which I am aware.

And I have heard a lot of crap that I just forget about, and don't seek shiat out anymore.

Again, I think Moby's stuff does stick in my head more often, in sense of melody and mood, and I like his lyrics and the tones he selects, blah blah blah.

So, yeah, his stuff stands out to me and I guess that's good enough for that I like it. =p

Bhasayate:
As others have said, I'll say again --- "scenes" are stupid. I mean, music is music is music.

Well, that depends. The "scenes" are like focus groups for certain styles of music. Yeah, some people treat it like elitism, but really, it's not like that. Or not supposed to be.

By "electronic based", I mean anything that is not "guitar driven" or whatever. And if that's too wide, well, oh well. This would include, say, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Depeche Mode, stuff like that.

But I meant more narrow, such as, hmmm, NIN, Kraftwork, KMFDM, Prodigy, Orbital, Freaky Chakra, Gary Neuman, Underworld, etc.

Well, all established music acts, not too far off the beaten path, but if you check out any of their remix singles or albums you can get into more stuff. You'll find TONS of great producers on those...Depeche Mode had a Portishead remix ages before "Sour Times" dropped, example. Trent is a HUGE fan of some of the stuff I like, he's had numerous COIL remixes and Porter Ricks even showed up. Remixes like this happen less and less nowadays.

Have you noticed how little of the artists you listed are new? There's a ton less money and promotion going into new music, so there's a ton of stuff not finding an audience. Bands like Orbital would never get a major label record deal nowadays.

All I think I'm saying, and all that really needs saying, is that I think Moby is a unique artist, and I like his stuff because it "moves me" more than a lot other "similar-ish" stuff of which I am aware.

So, yeah, his stuff stands out to me and I guess that's good enough for that I like it. =p

Cool, but there's tons of stuff out there. Certain P2P sites (love them or loathe them) garner a bit more music sharing love then FARK. People come in and ask for recommendations and generally everyone jumps in with some. I've seen some threads like for IDM type music stretch out to literally hundreds of pages. Everyone knows Aphex Twin, but there's so much out there that's just as good if not better that they are missing. If you mentioned Moby, you'd get a good rollicking from the underground types though.

Here it's a double edged sword. If you said, "Hey I like Moby" and I said, well why don't you try out "so and so" I'd be branded as an elitist, snob, etc. FARK's all about arguments.

HipsterHolocaust:
Uh-oh. Most people don't like Moby. Well, I mean, wow...I guess I should stop listening to him, then! I mean, if there's one thing I DON'T want to do, it's to offend the infamous 'they' who dictate my tastes.

Wow. Just wow. I guess I'm a d*ck for listening to Juno after the Shango shift. Dude, c'mon.

/crap...just bit. Fell to your level

Ironic that you put yourself on a higher 'level' than the one you are arguing with, considering what you seem to be so offended by him doing the same thing with regards to musical taste (which, by the way, I don't think he did).

Why do you think that you are so defensive about your musical taste?

I love electronic music. (It's namedroppin' time!)
From stuff like Lunascape and Conjure One to Tiesto and Aphex Twin, and all the stuff in between... I usually like it.

And hey, guess what? I really like Moby too.

Generalized statements = stupid, ESPECIALLY when it comes to music.

I think Moby is talented and understands the power of subtlety when it comes to electronic composition. His music is also a tad boring. I'm a big fan of chill: Hooverphonic, Portishead, Broadcast, Massive Attack, Ikon, Morcheeba, Fila Brazillia, etc. I like some good ole' analog musicianship with my tasty beats.

And finally: Eminem was, and is, a moron.

I'd like to offer anyone who read this thread a sincere apology for my outburst about the Moby/mainstream/hipster sh*t. I consider myself a reasonable guy - and I do stand behind the vast majority of what I posted. But I was very defensive.

Strangely, you can walk up to me and punch me (in the real world), and we're probably having beers an hour later. But I REALLY have a thing about people sh*t-talking particular artists or entire genres as 'sellout' or what not. Of all things - even Sarah Palin - this is what drives me batsh*t. It's a flaw. It's my fark handle.

That said, my apologies to Glitch
/pops in Tranquility Bass. Am I cool?
//keed
///serious about the Tranquility Bass, though. Genius stuff.

He's universally loathed Acres of scrotum are licked by most people who are seriously into electronic music. Just saying.

FTFY