You know, other countries wouldn't put up with their seccessionist shiat.

Fullscale genocide, carpet bombing on urban centers, public executions on dissenters, the works.

Organizers say the flag and memorial are not to promote racism but rather pay respect to part of America's history and to those veterans who fought in the Civil War.

"The fact that it promotes racism is just gravy," organizers went on to say.

Subby, they are not flying the Stars and Bars, they are flying the Confederate Naval Ensign. Yes, I know they're just as dumb for flying the wrong flag in the first place. Although, at this point, I wonder if I can get away with flying this...

...without controversy since everyone has it backwards. And yes, I know this is a semantic argument, but the political flag and the naval ensign have significantly different historical meanings.

Country first

I just watched a mockumentary on a "what if?" the South had won the Civil War, and what would a modern-day CSA be like, with slavery still legal.

All nine parts are on YouTube, and it's pretty interesting. It's presented as sort of a History Channel documentary, complete with fake commercials (one is for a "COPS" type show about hunting runaway slaves, another for actual products that used to have horribly racist mascots, and another is an infomercial for would-be medical students who didn't get the grades to get into Medical OR Veterinary school, and who might still be hired by a "Nationally Accredited Chattel Breeding College")

It also looks what if the CSA's actual post-war plans had succeeded, namely dominance of the Western Hemisphere, and presents them with "archival footage" and "historical re-enactments."

One of the more amusing bits is how "Red Canada" became the cultural center of the world, as they invented black-inspired rock & roll, and the CSA produces shiat that would put Lawrence Welk in a coma.

OtherLittleGuy: You know, other countries wouldn't put up with their seccessionist shiat.

Didn't see anything about anyone wanting to secede...unless you just read the Todd Palin article, and posted your reply here by accident.

However, in a less snarky vein, I am descended from a prominent Confederate general -- who also co-founded the KKK. I fully agree with the SCV's mission of keeping the history in people's minds. However, there were plenty of flags that were used by the CSA that were not subsequently used as a battle standard in race warfare for the following century.

UNC Samurai posted the actual "stars and bars," for one example. I fly the Bonnie Blue flag on my front porch, as another example. They are more historically relevant to the Confederacy, yet less offensively remindful of the Jim Crow era of American history.

That being said, I get a chuckle every time a Yankee in a Klan march gets his ass kicked for acting a fool with the CS naval jack.

The Confederate flag looks better than the US flag.

There, I said it.

Sgt Otter: I just watched a mockumentary on a "what if?" the South had won the Civil War, and what would a modern-day CSA be like, with slavery still legal.

All nine parts are on YouTube, and it's pretty interesting. It's presented as sort of a History Channel documentary, complete with fake commercials (one is for a "COPS" type show about hunting runaway slaves, another for actual products that used to have horribly racist mascots, and another is an infomercial for would-be medical students who didn't get the grades to get into Medical OR Veterinary school, and who might still be hired by a "Nationally Accredited Chattel Breeding College")

It also looks what if the CSA's actual post-war plans had succeeded, namely dominance of the Western Hemisphere, and presents them with "archival footage" and "historical re-enactments."

One of the more amusing bits is how "Red Canada" became the cultural center of the world, as they invented black-inspired rock & roll, and the CSA produces shiat that would put Lawrence Welk in a coma.

Eh, while slavery was definitely a topic du jour leading up to the Civil War, its days were numbered as it was becoming economically infeasible as an institution.

As for the music, just where do you think rock-and-roll came from? The corridor along the River from New Orleans to Memphis, during the height of Jim Crow, that's where. If you wanna get specific, "imported" African music got picked up by Southern white kids, and it grew from there. If anything, I think an argument can be made that the music was made better by the incredible suffering of the slaves and their descendants. If it had gone on, for all the moral tragedy that would have entailed, the music might have even been better than it was.

As much as I hate to say it, here's a conceptual flowchart:

Kunta Kinte --> Toby --> Robert Johnson --> Jerry Lee Lewis --> Elvis Presley --> Linkin Park

Now then, let's play "Name that Yankee" and tell me where the music went wrong. ;)

Hmm... secession and racism. Is there a connection there? Was slavery ever used as a basis for seceding from the Union? Is there a secessionist party in Alaska made up of displaced southern secessionists? Do they share any of the same ideals? Are any prominent political figures former members of this party and spouses of current members of this party? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

Nah!

DamnYankees: The Confederate flag looks better than the US flag.

There, I said it.

The Nazi flag looks better than almost any flag. You have to admit, the nazis were FABULOUS!

NeauxFear: I am descended from a prominent Confederate general -- who also co-founded the KKK.

Forrest?

Dread Pirate Slasher: DamnYankees: The Confederate flag looks better than the US flag.

There, I said it.

The Nazi flag looks better than almost any flag. You have to admit, the nazis were FABULOUS!

I'm going to bite on a troll long enough to mention - the Imperial German Naval Flag is the ultimate in Germanic flag-making.

coyote71: NeauxFear: I am descended from a prominent Confederate general -- who also co-founded the KKK.

Forrest?

RUN FORREST RUN!

coyote71: Forrest?

Ding-ding-ding. :) There are no Forrests left, but my mother traces a straight maternal line to NBF's daughter. My uncle has his sabre on his mantel.

However, my uncle is a racist bastard, Klan member, SCV chapter past-president, and retired MPD captain.

UNC_Samurai: Dread Pirate Slasher: DamnYankees: The Confederate flag looks better than the US flag.

There, I said it.

The Nazi flag looks better than almost any flag. You have to admit, the nazis were FABULOUS!

I'm going to bite on a troll long enough to mention - the Imperial German Naval Flag is the ultimate in Germanic flag-making.

No, I wasn't trolling. The Nazi flag is a very nice design. The SS officer's uniform is one of the best looking uniforms ever. Did you know they were made by Hugo Boss? For whatever they were, they had some stylish shiat. No straight man could have designed all that.

UNC_Samurai: I'm going to bite on a troll long enough to mention - the Imperial German Naval Flag is the ultimate in Germanic flag-making.

I think that is the awesomest flag in history. I really do.

NeauxFear: If anything, I think an argument can be made that the music was made better by the incredible suffering of the slaves and their descendants. If it had gone on, for all the moral tragedy that would have entailed, the music might have even been better than it was.

;)

Yeah. Slavery was the best thing to ever happen to blackfolks. They owe your ancestors a debt thet can never repay.

/you need to see a doctor

T.M.S.: Yeah. Slavery was the best thing to ever happen to blackfolks

Not for the ones that were actually slaves but today's black people, sure. At least they're not still in Africa. Hell, my ancestors were miners in Wales, which was practically slavery and they had to pay to get here.

NeauxFear:

Eh, while slavery was definitely a topic du jour leading up to the Civil War, its days were numbered as it was becoming economically infeasible as an institution.

As for the music, just where do you think rock-and-roll came from? The corridor along the River from New Orleans to Memphis, during the height of Jim Crow, that's where. If you wanna get specific, "imported" African music got picked up by Southern white kids, and it grew from there. If anything, I think an argument can be made that the music was made better by the incredible suffering of the slaves and their descendants. If it had gone on, for all the moral tragedy that would have entailed, the music might have even been better than it was.

As much as I hate to say it, here's a conceptual flowchart:

Kunta Kinte --> Toby --> Robert Johnson --> Jerry Lee Lewis --> Elvis Presley --> Linkin Park

Now then, let's play "Name that Yankee" and tell me where the music went wrong. ;)

Yeah, I know. The film does kind of deal with the issues you raised, and slavery is pretty much only kept intact after The Reconstruction pretty much single-handedly by a particularly nasty advisor to Jefferson Davis, and with the CSA repeatedly nearly bankrupting itself in pursuing its "Tropical Empire." It's not as widespread, and the situation is closer to apartheid in most parts of the CSA.

Canada in the film was were many blacks escaped to as the Underground Railroad was still intact, and instead of Memphis and New Orleans, it was replaced with the sounds of soul/jazz/R&B coming from Montreal and Toronto, made by escaped slaves, or Canadian-born blacks only a generation or two away from slavery.

These records were contraband smuggled into the CSA across the Canadian border, and inspired many white musicians to defect to Canada, as performing and producing "Music of Negroid Origins" was illegal. It doesn't deny the influence, it just relocated it.

Mugato: T.M.S.: Yeah. Slavery was the best thing to ever happen to blackfolks

Not for the ones that were actually slaves but today's black people, sure. At least they're not still in Africa. Hell, my ancestors were miners in Wales, which was practically slavery and they had to pay to get here.

If they were "practically" slaves how is it thay were they able to leave?

(Not to mention come up with the money to pay to get here.)

Slaves did not get paid and they were not allowed to leave.

If the South rises again, I will be glad to turn it into a lump of carbon again.

T.M.S.: (Not to mention come up with the money to pay to get here.)

You didn't have to "pay" (in advance) to come to America. It's called "Indentured Servitude."

sigdiamond2000: Organizers say the flag and memorial are not to promote racism but rather pay respect to part of America's history and to those veterans who fought in the Civil War.

That is the worst farking horseshiat I have ever, ever heard outside of this year's presidential campaign. I lived in the south for years, and I never met anyone who flew the Confederate flag who wasn't an ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck, and proud of it.

And anywhere else in the U.S., people know what it means instantly. It means you're an ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck.

Lionel Mandrake: T.M.S.: (Not to mention come up with the money to pay to get here.)

You didn't have to "pay" (in advance) to come to America. It's called "Indentured Servitude."

And you were released in about 7 years.

Exactly like slavery. Except not.

T.M.S.: Yeah. Slavery was the best thing to ever happen to blackfolks. They owe your ancestors a debt thet can never repay.

/you need to see a doctor

Way to selectively read what you wanted to see. Never said anything favorable about slavery's effects on people, just music. FWIW, I tried to make this clear by enunciating the moral bankruptcy of the institution itself.

/you need to see an optometrist

Sgt Otter: It doesn't deny the influence, it just relocated it.

Fair enough, since we're talking "would-coulda-shoulda" stuff anyway. I just think it's based on a faulty premise - that white southerners persecuted black music. It's just not true -- that was the chink crack in segregation's armor, that white southerners have always admired black music. As long as their daughter wasn't in a juke joint, that is.

I bookmarked it, but I'm in short-attention-span mode right now. :) For the record, I think the South was right in seceding, but doomed to failure from the start from a logistical standpoint. I also think that slavery carries a certain moral bankruptcy to it, such that any regime (northern or southern) that condones it is liable to fark things up royally for everybody, slave and free alike, so I appreciated that part of your synopsis.

T.M.S.: And you were released in about 7 years.

If you lived that long in 19th-century mining conditions, sure...

Protip: If another human owns you from a certain point until your death...it's exactly like slavery, and it's horrible no matter who is victimized.

T.M.S.: And you were released in about 7 years.

Exactly like slavery. Except not

Never said it was exactly like slavery. And they weren't always released...

cryinoutloud:
And anywhere else in the U.S., people know what it means instantly. It means you're an ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck.

It means that here too. I had relatives who fought in the Confederate Army. But for me to fly that flag, while it may mean "heritage" or something completely innocuous to me, (which it does not), may hurt someone else. Not to care about that is rude, and low, and beneath my raising. These men are not Southern gentlemen, I assure you.

cryinoutloud:
That is the worst farking horseshiat I have ever, ever heard outside of this year's presidential campaign. I lived in the south for years, and I never met anyone who flew the Confederate flag who wasn't an ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck, and proud of it.

And anywhere else in the U.S., people know what it means instantly. It means you're an ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck.

You are the ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck.

There is a gentleman that lives 3 houses down from me that flies a confederate flag and has Obama signs in his yard. He daily tells anyone he sees why they should vote for him.
You making a blanket statement like that is the same as someone saying that a black man cant keep a job or be a father to his children, or someone sagging their pants is a gang-banger. But hey ...don't let that stop you, stay in you little world where it is OK to judge people based on what you think is right or wrong.

LOGICAL_PSYCHO: There is a gentleman that lives 3 houses down from me that flies a confederate flag and has Obama signs in his yard. He daily tells anyone he sees why they should vote for him.
You making a blanket statement like that is the same as someone saying that a black man cant keep a job or be a father to his children, or someone sagging their pants is a gang-banger. But hey ...don't let that stop you, stay in you little world where it is OK to judge people based on what you think is right or wrong.

As a Confederate flag flier with an Obama sign in his yard, I'm really getting a kick...

nashBridges: They are an interesting lot. They're very old and only two generations removed from the Civil War itself. The wife is a direct descendant of the Garrets that hid John Wilkes Booth on their farm after he shot Lincoln. History is important to them, obviously.

They're also two of the most racist people I've ever met. I'm not talking about telling off color jokes kind of racist, these people live racism without irony, self-reflection, or any sense that it's wrong. It's not something that even enters their conscious thought process. It's just there as a given, like the sun coming up in the morning. It might be that lack of self-awareness that alarms me the most.

My grandfather was born in 1920, and his best friend (and next-door neighbor) was black. Didn't stop him from saying "nagger" as a matter of course. He died in 2000, and I'm still not sure if it was racist of him or just the Memphis vernacular that he was raised with.

Anyway, I hear where you're coming from.

LOGICAL_PSYCHO: You are the ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck.

There is a gentleman that lives 3 houses down from me that flies a confederate flag and has Obama signs in his yard. He daily tells anyone he sees why they should vote for him.
You making a blanket statement like that is the same as someone saying that a black man cant keep a job or be a father to his children, or someone sagging their pants is a gang-banger. But hey ...don't let that stop you, stay in you little world where it is OK to judge people based on what you think is right or wrong.

All that means is that your neighbor is unaware of its symbolism or for some reason doesn't give a shiat, no?

nashBridges: They have many Confederate flags in their house, but no "Stars and Bars" in any sense we think of today. They have the flag you posted, and they also have a square flag that would be the stars and bars except for the sizing. The husband took great pains to explain to me that it was a Virginia regiment battle flag and "not that nonsense they put on that Dukes boys show".

They are correct. The square flag with the St. Andrews cross and the white border was adopted by a number of units within the Army of Northern Virginia. They did so in order to avoid some of the tragic mistakes at First Bull Run/Manassas. The Stars and Bars looked too similar to the U.S. Flag, given the immense smoke on the battlefield. Any time the wind died on the field it was nearly impossible to identify friendly units, which resulted in several instances of friendly fire incidents.

UNC_Samurai: nashBridges: They have many Confederate flags in their house, but no "Stars and Bars" in any sense we think of today. They have the flag you posted, and they also have a square flag that would be the stars and bars except for the sizing. The husband took great pains to explain to me that it was a Virginia regiment battle flag and "not that nonsense they put on that Dukes boys show".

They are correct. The square flag with the St. Andrews cross and the white border was adopted by a number of units within the Army of Northern Virginia. They did so in order to avoid some of the tragic mistakes at First Bull Run/Manassas. The Stars and Bars looked too similar to the U.S. Flag, given the immense smoke on the battlefield. Any time the wind died on the field it was nearly impossible to identify friendly units, which resulted in several instances of friendly fire incidents.

You vexillologist, you...you dirty, dirty vexillologist

DamnYankees:
All that means is that your neighbor is unaware of its symbolism or for some reason doesn't give a shiat, no?

No....... it means not everyone that has a confederate flag is a "ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck."

LOGICAL_PSYCHO: DamnYankees:
All that means is that your neighbor is unaware of its symbolism or for some reason doesn't give a shiat, no?

No....... it means not everyone that has a confederate flag is a "ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck."

Well, what is it then? Is he ignorant of what it means? Callous to the feelings of others?

UNC_Samurai: Subby, they are not flying the Stars and Bars, they are flying the Confederate Naval Ensign. Yes, I know they're just as dumb for flying the wrong flag in the first place. Although, at this point, I wonder if I can get away with flying this...

...without controversy since everyone has it backwards. And yes, I know this is a semantic argument, but the political flag and the naval ensign have significantly different historical meanings.

I'm sure you could...

DamnYankees: LOGICAL_PSYCHO: DamnYankees:
All that means is that your neighbor is unaware of its symbolism or for some reason doesn't give a shiat, no?

No....... it means not everyone that has a confederate flag is a "ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck."

Well, what is it then? Is he ignorant of what it means? Callous to the feelings of others?

How the f*ck would I know? Maybe he likes the pretty colors. Maybe he is originally from Mississippi (they still have the confederate flag incorporated in their state flag BTW).
Point is he is not a racist, sorry if that confuses you but I don't know how to type any slower for you.

BTW: I like you only giving two possible choices as to his reasons, and by "like" I mean typical slimy lawyer trick.
You should do well in your chosen field, unfortunately you will not be able to keep me updated as you are now on my ignore list.

dillenger69: FLAGGOTS!

I'm laughing harder than I really should be.

UNC_Samurai: Subby, they are not flying the Stars and Bars, they are flying the Confederate Naval Ensign. Yes, I know they're just as dumb for flying the wrong flag in the first place. Although, at this point, I wonder if I can get away with flying this...

...without controversy since everyone has it backwards. And yes, I know this is a semantic argument, but the political flag and the naval ensign have significantly different historical meanings.

Actually, since the colors on the Naval Ensign were different and the current colors were chosen mid-20th century, they aren't even flying a Confederate flag. They are flying a bastardization of a Naval Ensign that was created in the mid-20th century during the rise of the civil right's movement. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Just ignore the dumbasses...

so when you burn a flag in protest there's nothing wrong with it since it's just a flag, but if you fly the flag it's a symbol that affects everyone.

I think i'm starting to understand liberals

Traitors rag

You don't like it? fark you and your family.

DamnYankees: LOGICAL_PSYCHO: DamnYankees:
All that means is that your neighbor is unaware of its symbolism or for some reason doesn't give a shiat, no?

No....... it means not everyone that has a confederate flag is a "ignorant, racist, stupid f*ck."

Well, what is it then? Is he ignorant of what it means? Callous to the feelings of others?

DY is right. The Confederate flag means slavery/racism and absolutely nothing else at all. No matter what history actually says. Nope, not a thing.

Sadly ..... and I think we all know this in our heart of hearts .... racism is alive and well in America.

/Goodbye freedom
//Hellow 4 more years

stirfrybry: so when you burn a flag in protest there's nothing wrong with it since it's just a flag, but if you fly the flag it's a symbol that affects everyone.

I think i'm starting to understand liberals

FTW! Nice.

I'm offended by everything. Stop what you are doing now!